Digital Foundry: PlayStation 5/ Xbox Series X New GPU Spec Leak Analysis: 9.2TF vs 12TF?

[Hoo-doo]

Brass tacks here: this thread is very much about power. If power didnt matter, even you wouldnt be here. Lets be real. Legit, anyone who's posting in this thread right now is interested about the power of these two consoles -- whether that be for console wars or just plain curiosity out of the two Big Boys, if you're in this thread, it matters to you in some capacity.

Ive never tried to hide where I like to enjoy my hobbie. I love the Xbox ecosystem, broski. Because I prefer the Xbox ecosystem doesnt mean Im here to wave some flag. Dont be so fucking petty, my dude.

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Lol, if it were confirmed that one of the systems had 4K Blu-ray and the other didn't, you'd have a similar thread. If one system had confirmed paddles on it's controller and the other doesn't, you'll have a thousand posts easy. If one is X and the other Y, it will automatically invite people to a flamewar.
I trust you've been around enough to know that the actual parameter being discussed is barely relevant in a phase like this. People back their 'team'. And I never said you hide your biases and neither do I. But that's just the way it goes in gaming forums.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

I hope Richard is wrong would be very disappointing for PS5 to be below 10 tflops.

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Why?

9TF is still a massive leap over previous gen, allows for 4K60 games AND would most likely be a $399 console.

I don't understand this line of thinking. At all.

 

[DukeBlueBall]

Let's just all hope that leak isn't true.

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The leak is 100% true, hmgqq was verified and he got confirmation from a source. According to Matt, doesn't mean it's the final PS5.

 

[Velocity:Design:Comfort]

the amount of master chief profile pictures telling me their toys are better than other peoples toys in this thread, its like am I in 2002 again?

 

[gofreak]

I'm more so "worried" (not really worried, but if I had to pick an aspect it would be this) about PSVR. 9.2 TF is a large number and it's enough for next gen, but I would have liked the PS5 to really push boundaries and make the next PSVR experience the best it can be.

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Boundary-pushing could still happen if they manage to get eye-tracking into the PSVR2 that is good enough for tight foveated rendering. That could blow the lid off what could be accomplished in VR visuals - and indeed for game visuals in general. But we will see what happens there.

 

[nib95]

Resolution should be similar. You'll see differences in shadow quality, anti aliasing, effects etc.


But if there is a resolution difference. I'd expect native 4k VS checkerboard

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I doubt this'll be the case. Similar to how things have panned out this gen, especially with the PS4 Pro and One X, I think the differences will be in resolution with all else the same. It's easier for the devs that way too, since it's just a case of resolution scaling without having to worry about individual graphics optimisations. On top of that, with checkerboarding, the differences could be even less pronounced.

 

[TLT GAMING]

How exactly is Lockhart going to run RTX? Are developers supposed to bake lighting for S games and use RTX for X games? The best part about RTX is that it makes manipulating lighting quicker for developers. That is just one example.

What if S games are the base during development and X is just a 4k image of a 4TF machine?

I'm not saying these things will happen for sure but its definitely a possibility that there are drawbacks to having two wildly different skus at launch.

PS4 Pro is great but its an uprezzed PS4, Horizon, GOW etc don't look like they came from a different generation. Simply uprezzed. Which is fine thats its purpose but the problem with launching with this is that you minimize the next gen effect.

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This is where you are wrong. Lockhart and the Series X aren't 'two wildly different SKUs' and I don't know where you are getting this idea.
To date the main difference to them is GPU power and storage from what we know.The only thing more GPU power can improve are resolution and textures. That's it. The CPU in the two is practically identical and the CPU is for physics, AI, animation, particle effects, framerates.
It literally makes no sense to say that Lockhart is going to hold the series X back. You could say that if the CPU and the storage SSD was drastically inferior IN ADDITION to the GPU but that isn't the case.
It's like people have this tunnel vision thinking pretty graphics is all next gen is about and completely dismiss the CPU and SSDs. The CPU upgrade from the X to the Series X is massive. A better CPU means better framerates and better animations and better physics.

 

[Hey Please]

The leak is 100% true, hmgqq was verified and he got confirmation from a source. According to Matt, doesn't mean it's the final PS5.

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So the whole, "Revision" thing may have been a thing after all.

 

[BubblegumNemesis]

I'm more so "worried" (not really worried, but if I had to pick an aspect it would be this) about PSVR. 9.2 TF is a large number and it's enough for next gen, but I would have liked the PS5 to really push boundaries and make the next PSVR experience the best it can be.

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Do you think there will be an PSVR 2.0?

 

[Deleted member 56752]

If XSEX releases at 500, this will get really interesting

 

[Carn]

Do you think there will be an PSVR 2.0?

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Cerny implied as much IMHO:

""I won't go into the details of our VR strategy today," he says, "beyond saying that VR is very important to us and that the current PSVR headset is compatible with the new console.""

 

[BadWolf]

Do you think there will be an PSVR 2.0?

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Of course.

 

[Elven_Star]

I'm just here to say that my 1070 is going to be immortal given the focus on 4K next gen. I have started gaming on a CRT recently (1280x960@70Hz or 1024x768@85Hz) and I'm never going back. Assassin's Creed Odyssey looks and plays like a dream on it (locked 70 fps, 120% internal resolution, everything maxed except volumetric clouds at high). In fact, I'm going to buy another CRT as a reserve as soon as possible.

 

[Splader]

Do you think there will be an PSVR 2.0?

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I swear I thought this was already confirmed.

 

[Saint-14]

Do you think there will be an PSVR 2.0?

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The VR headset that sold the most will get another one, yes.

 

[Hoo-doo]

Do you think there will be an PSVR 2.0?

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They've already said to be working on it, but for launch the original PSVR is supported.

 

[BubblegumNemesis]

I swear I thought this was already confirmed.

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Maybe... not sure.

 

[Khrol]

Maybe... not sure.

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I'm sure I heard the same thing. Safe bet at the very least.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I'll be buying whichever console is more powerful. Because that means that games will look/perform better on that console. If that means I have to spend an additional $100 so be it.

It really does feel like I've hopped in a time machine back to 2013 though.

Back to the "power doesn't matter" and "you can't notice a difference between these resolutions" statements again😂

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If sony comes in 100 dollars more expensive and riding a wave of horrible press from drm and tv tv tv that would matter. But its not really same situation

At this point both pubs have competent strategies

 

[DigSCCP]

I'm more so "worried" (not really worried, but if I had to pick an aspect it would be this) about PSVR. 9.2 TF is a large number and it's enough for next gen, but I would have liked the PS5 to really push boundaries and make the next PSVR experience the best it can be.

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PSVR smaller problem is console power.
PSVR true evolution will come with PSVR2 not because of the PS5 horse power but because o PSVR own hardware limitations.
I mean we got REVII running back to back on a base PS4.

 

[Dunlop]

I think both will do extremely well despite difference in specs. i dunno why people are freaking out so much.

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Next gen will begin with a bunch of comparison videos with people counting each pixel and frame.

If MS comes out of the gate with the stronger box, the e-peen for some here will be crushed

 

[gofreak]

I swear I thought this was already confirmed.

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Not confirmed as such, but a next-gen PSVR is definitely being worked on internally at the moment. Even if they don't explicitly say so, it's obvious:

PlayStation’s Dominic Mallinson on next-gen VR, wireless, gaze tracking, foveated rendering, and AR

VentureBeat interview: Dominic Mallinson, senior vice president of R&D at Sony, talks PSVR, wireless, gaze tracking, foveated rendering, and AR.

venturebeat.com

And from their patent output.

 

[Zones]

I basically said this on the first page and was replied to a half dozen times to let me know how wrong I was. The differences is going to be huge! ;)

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Now is a really good time to remind ourselves how PS4 Pro was supposed to tank in terms of sales according to many gaming forum members because PS4 Pro was fake 4K (and of course as importantly, it lacked the truly crucial 4K Blu-ray playback functionality).

 

[Zelus]

I'll be buying whichever console is more powerful. Because that means that games will look/perform better on that console. If that means I have to spend an additional $100 so be it.

It really does feel like I've hopped in a time machine back to 2013 though.

Back to the "power doesn't matter" and "you can't notice a difference between these resolutions" statements again😂

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If you're willing to spend more money on the more powerful device, why not just get a PC? PCs absolutely BLOW consoles out of the water. They've had backwards and forwards compatibility since forever (something consoles are now boasting about), 60fps as the standard, and have been able to push 4K for a while. Not mention great digital prices.

 

[ppn7]

bye bye double digits TF PS5 !

 

[Khrol]

Next gen will begin with a bunch of comparison videos with people counting each pixel and frame.

If MS comes out of the gate with the stronger box, the e-peen for some here will be crushed

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It's just part of the cycle now.

I want to say the first time I remember comparisons being a thing was Splinter Cell on Xbox/PS2. lol

 

[Splader]

If you're willing to spend more money on the more powerful device, why not just get a PC? PCs absolutely BLOW consoles out of the water. They've had backwards and forwards compatibility since forever (something consoles are now boasting about), 60fps as the standard, and have been able to push 4K for a while. Not mention great digital prices.

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Judging by the rumored specs, you're not going to be able to build a PC with similar specs for 500 USD.

That and people enjoy the simplicity of console ecosystems.

 

[Erebus]

If you're willing to spend more money on the more powerful device, why not just get a PC? PCs absolutely BLOW consoles out of the water. They've had backwards and forwards compatibility since forever (something consoles are now boasting about), 60fps as the standard, and have been able to push 4K for a while. Not mention great digital prices.

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Plus, you will be able to play any games released for Xbox with the new direction that MS has taken.

 

[Zelus]

Plus, you will be able to play any games released for Xbox with the new direction that MS has taken.

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Seriously, you won't miss out on any of their exclusives and they'll look and run great.

 

[Deleted member 27471]

If you're willing to spend more money on the more powerful device, why not just get a PC? PCs absolutely BLOW consoles out of the water. They've had backwards and forwards compatibility since forever (something consoles are now boasting about), 60fps as the standard, and have been able to push 4K for a while. Not mention great digital prices.

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Because beyond it possibly be preference, they're still cheaper than a PC even if your willing to spend $100 more.

 

[Burrman]

Next gen will begin with a bunch of comparison videos with people counting each pixel and frame.

If MS comes out of the gate with the stronger box, the e-peen for some here will be crushed

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Next gen? Remember this gen? Why would it change.

 

[Inuhanyou]

bye bye double digits TF PS5 !

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Both ps5 and xb are above 10tf though regarding current gen flop count..which is the usual barometer if were being technical

 

[Fredrik]

19 pages, and counting, and it's still just an unconfirmed leak. The real unveils are going to be crazy.

Personally I hope they're close just so the focus will be to outdo each other with awesome games instead of tiny differences only DF can spot.

 

[Khrol]

Next gen? Remember this gen? Why would it change.

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I think he means how amplified it is at the start of a generation. Interest tapers off as the gen goes on.

 

[ppn7]

Both ps5 and xb are above 10tf though regarding current gen pl...which is the usual barometer

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If Oberon leak are definitive, 36CU + 2.0Ghz = 9.2TF
And i think it will be the case, even if i hope 40CU and 2.0Ghz = 10,2TF
Still to hot TDP to cool...

 

[idioteque]

If you're willing to spend more money on the more powerful device, why not just get a PC? PCs absolutely BLOW consoles out of the water. They've had backwards and forwards compatibility since forever (something consoles are now boasting about), 60fps as the standard, and have been able to push 4K for a while. Not mention great digital prices.

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Do I want a keyboard and mouse in my living room? Absolutely not. That's why. Consoles are convenient, grab a controller, turn on console, play. That's what I want. But I want it to look as good as possible too.

 

[Spinluck]

This is where you are wrong. Lockhart and the Series X aren't 'two wildly different SKUs' and I don't know where you are getting this idea.
To date the main difference to them is GPU power and storage from what we know.The only thing more GPU power can improve are resolution and textures. That's it. The CPU in the two is practically identical and the CPU is for physics, AI, animation, particle effects, framerates.
It literally makes no sense to say that Lockhart is going to hold the series X back. You could say that if the CPU and the storage SSD was drastically inferior IN ADDITION to the GPU but that isn't the case.
It's like people have this tunnel vision thinking pretty graphics is all next gen is about and completely dismiss the CPU and SSDs. The CPU upgrade from the X to the Series X is massive. A better CPU means better framerates and better animations and better physics.

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ITT we learn what a CENTRAL processing unit is.

Lol. The CPUs in these machines in all honesty is the stealth leap no one is talking about.

 

[Zelus]

Judging by the rumored specs, you're not going to be able to build a PC with similar specs for 500 USD.

That and people enjoy the simplicity of console ecosystems.

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I have a hard time believing these machines are going to launch with a $500 price tag if the rumored specs are true. If anything, we're overestimating the specs (with the possible exception of the GPU).

In regards to simplicity, PCs are all but plug and play. Heck, I'm playing Gears 5 via bootcamp on my MacBook Pro with a DualShock 4 and it should have been a nightmare for me to get working and yet it wasn't. It was very easy and comparable to my experience on the X (Gears 5).

 

[Inuhanyou]

If Oberon leak are definitive, 36CU + 2.0Ghz = 9.2TF
And i think it will be the case, even if i hope 40CU and 2.0Ghz = 10,2TF
Still to hot TDP to cool...

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Im saying 9.2tf rdna is over 10 gcn

 

[Hey Please]

Im saying 9.2tf rdna is over 10 gcn

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Per AMD, it ought to perform akin to a 11.52 TF GCN card. And Navi does have HW support for ARS/VRS.

 

[Guaraná]

PC is very simple these days.
On the other hand consoles getting more and more complicated.

Yesterday my gf gave up on playing Detroit on PS4 because it would take 30min to install the game and before that she needed to update the system.

My copy of control that I got for 12 dollars at EGS was ready to go in 15min after I clicked on purchase.

 

[Swift_Gamer]

How would they explain short-term losses to make up long-term market share? Other than Nintendo, pretty much every console gen starts as a loss on hardware. It's just a matter of how much the platform holder is willing to lose per box, and after the fuck up that was the Xbox One generation, it's not unreasonable to think Microsoft would be willing to invest on buying back some market share.

MS has to be aggressive. Sony is coming with backward compatibility this gen, so we're not going to see the type of hard reset that usually comes with a console cycle refresh. People already in the Sony ecosystem are going to have more incentive to stay put, which means MS is going to need to entice people to jump ship.

Offering a 12TF box for the same price of Sony's 9TF box would be a start.


I feel like the longer Sony stays quiet, the more truth there is to 9TF or at least a power gap that's not in their favor. If they were close to12TF, they'd just come out and say "wait for our reveal", and if they were 13TF+ they'd be trolling Microsoft's claims about "most power" and "we will not fall behind".

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This hard reset don't usually comes, it came only this gen, all previous gens didn't have a hard reset.

 

[Deleted member 224]

If you're willing to spend more money on the more powerful device, why not just get a PC? PCs absolutely BLOW consoles out of the water. They've had backwards and forwards compatibility since forever (something consoles are now boasting about), 60fps as the standard, and have been able to push 4K for a while. Not mention great digital prices.

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Well, why would anyone buy a console?

 

[Erebus]

Do I want a keyboard and mouse in my living room? Absolutely not. That's why. Consoles are convenient, grab a controller, turn on console, play. That's what I want. But I want it to look as good as possible too.

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You know controllers are a thing for PCs too but alas, I don't want this thing to turn into PC vs consoles, it already is a mess of thread as is.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Per AMD, it ought to perform akin to a 11.52 TF GCN card. And Navi does have HW support for ARS/VRS.

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Basically my point. Its hard to clarify difference between current gen flops and next gen but you helped me out. And yes...vrs is hardware level meaning sony have their own standard as well. Its not vendor exclusive

 

[Zelus]

Do I want a keyboard and mouse in my living room? Absolutely not. That's why. Consoles are convenient, grab a controller, turn on console, play. That's what I want. But I want it to look as good as possible too.

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All games that have released on both PC and console have had controller support for a long time. The only exception I can think of was during the early 360/PS3 era.

 

[Spinluck]

Well, why would anyone buy a console?

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Exclusives!!!

 

[Deleted member 224]

If sony comes in 100 dollars more expensive and riding a wave of horrible press from drm and tv tv tv that would matter. But its not really same situation

At this point both pubs have competent strategies

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No, I remember the early 2013 pre-release power speculation quite well. "The most powerful console never wins" "power doesn't matter" "the differences will be negligible". Like, we're literally back to "I sit so and so feet away from my tv, so it doesn't matter" levels of discourse here.

 

[Iwao]

What really adds credence to this rumour, that is having so many people excited enough to position PS5 like $399 is the plan for Sony? Mark Cerny said that PS5's price "will be appealing in light of its advanced feature set". 2 take aways from that:

1) He wouldn't have to add context to its appeal, if it's going to be $399.
2) Context implies that it will be priced above $399 because of its advanced hardware.

If it was going to be $399, he would have said its price will be "surprising" in light of its advanced feature set.

 

[senj]

Do I want a keyboard and mouse in my living room? Absolutely not. That's why. Consoles are convenient, grab a controller, turn on console, play. That's what I want. But I want it to look as good as possible too.

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I do all my PC gaming in my living room with an Xbox Elite controller. You have to go back a decade at this point to find any major PC games that don't have official controller support.