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Digital Foundry tests FreeSync support on Xbox One X
- Thread starter Savantcore
- Start date
This only helps in titles where they are aiming for 60 but can't consistently meet that. You can't just mandate that games on your system aren't going to have any frame drops.
True but now it'll be almost as smooth per DF "No longer are unlocked frame-rates a problem - in fact, 40-50fps gameplay can look almost as smooth as 60fps"
They demoed Wolf 2, locked at 4k native, which has dips (45fps-50's fps) but with Freesynce is now mostly gone and plays smooth like 60fps. Remarkable!
Freesync is still in a beta stage. This isn't finalize at all yet. Also it seems games have to support it to take advantage. Which is why some games perform alot better than others as pointed out earlier in the thread\
It's odd that vrr has to be supported on game by game basis.
It's one thing if your game is outside the refresh range but the way freesync and gsync operate on pcs this doesn't make sense.
The truth hurts but that is the reality.
Now I can recommend an xbox over a ps4 or Switch for a specific very compelling reason.
My aim isn't to shit on the console but to praise it for becoming competitive again.
It's one thing if your game is outside the refresh range but the way freesync and gsync operate on pcs this doesn't make sense.
The truth hurts but that is the reality.
Now I can recommend an xbox over a ps4 or Switch for a specific very compelling reason.
My aim isn't to shit on the console but to praise it for becoming competitive again.
I noticed this too and was hoping it wasn't per game. I actually noticed a "VRR" tag and was like "what could that be?" then saw Vairable Refresh Rate on some games. Gears of War 4 I think is where I saw it first. (I guess it might've been Forza 7)I think DF here assumed FreeSync was system level but I thought it was title by title?
Might explain the games that did not show a difference, some games have the VRR tag some dont on the store.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/store/top-paid/games/xbox?gamecapabilities=capabilityxboxenhanced
List of games I see that have the "Variable Refresh Rate" tag
Pillars of Eternity
Hellblade
Disneyland Adventures
Rush: A DisneyPixar Adventure
Zoo Tycoon: Ultimate Animal Collection
theHunter: Call of the Wild
Gears of War 4
Forza Motorsport 7
I can't remember where I saw the "VRR" tag, but I know I've seen it... at least once
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Decent tech and a good "freeibie" for games and TVs in the future. Still a bit early at the moment and looks like games have a lot of issues as they have their own Vsync systems in place.
Will be interesting to see if 3-4 years time when the hardware is more mainstream if most games will come out with an uncapped raw variable refresh output. Might give some nice gains in some games but also looks like a lot of CPU limitation which will mean the tech doesn't have quite the same benefit on a lot of PC rigs.
Will be interesting to see if 3-4 years time when the hardware is more mainstream if most games will come out with an uncapped raw variable refresh output. Might give some nice gains in some games but also looks like a lot of CPU limitation which will mean the tech doesn't have quite the same benefit on a lot of PC rigs.
A lot of games can't reach 4k, VR resolution isn't where it needs to be, streaming tech can/will get better, etc. Point being that everything starts somewhere and somebody has to light the fire. I agree that next gen this will probably be standard but this implementation is the needed "baby steps".
Nope, you can't force devs to hit a certain framerate. Some of the greatest games of all time have had wonky framerates. This is an easy software solution to making those wonky framerates feel smooth.
Obviously if all games had locked 60fps to start that would be better for the consumer as many don't have Freesync monitors/TVs. But that's just unrealistic.
The tech was coming regardless of it being included in the XB1X. It's going to be a standard thing on the next consoles.
Dark1x
See comment below:
See comment below:
I think DF here assumed FreeSync was system level but I thought it was title by title?
Might explain the games that did not show a difference, some games have the VRR tag some dont on the store.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/store/top-paid/games/xbox?gamecapabilities=capabilityxboxenhanced
I'm more hyped for this then for HDR! I hope all next gen consoles will have freesync support out of the box and that all games can be made to run unlocked and without vsync! Adaptive refresh rates are so good!
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FreeSync (and Gsync) do not care if a sudden drop in FPS is caused by the CPU or GPU by the way, no idea why you are making a difference between those two.
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FreeSync (and Gsync) do not care if a sudden drop in FPS is caused by the CPU or GPU by the way, no idea why you are making a difference between those two.
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Sadly no HDMI 2.1 LG OLEDs in 2018.
VRR is one of the best display tech advancements of the last years.
Loved playing Witcher 3 with 45-55fps on my 21:9 UWQHD.
Making games compatible should be no big problem.
You just need unlocked framerates, Vsync on or off makes no difference when you have a Freesync Display.
VRR is one of the best display tech advancements of the last years.
Loved playing Witcher 3 with 45-55fps on my 21:9 UWQHD.
Making games compatible should be no big problem.
You just need unlocked framerates, Vsync on or off makes no difference when you have a Freesync Display.
Ok, well MS was forward thinking and included it now. If it's trivial for devs to implement then they can practice flipping the switch until then.
I think you don't realized that you can play more games on Xbone than you can on any other console this generation?
I feel like when they release actual tv's with this its gonna cost and arm and a leg
Hmmm... I don't know. I'm kind of disappointed honestly. I was expecting it to be a HUUUUGE deal. But that's probably my fault. Now thinking about it - there aren't that many games that would benefit from this. Maybe once it's standard developers will start adding framecap toggle in.
I'm still watching, but I'm wondering if they notice a benefit in latency. For me that's the biggest benefit of VRR.
Sounds like you didn't read the article / watch the video?
Digital Foundry said:
Regarding topic - sounds like a neat glimpse of the future, but not really worth it at all right now. Def not a "selling point".
"limited", lol. 500+ games on mine but whatever, there are many things that already make the X worth while.
Oh my god, this video is a waste of time.
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I'll drop this here just in case people wanted to know about FreeSync and how it compares to Gsync https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVNRNOcLUuA -- which is probably something they thought this 22 minute video would have at least touched on.
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I'll drop this here just in case people wanted to know about FreeSync and how it compares to Gsync https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVNRNOcLUuA -- which is probably something they thought this 22 minute video would have at least touched on.
Oh duh, I didn't list Gears 4 and Forza because I had already mentioned them beforehand. Lemme edit.
Why exactly? It was just a quickie done while I was in town but I'm not sure what you're looking for. Who cares about G-Sync in this specific instance when Xbox One won't support it? G-Sync is limited to specific monitors paired with Nvidia graphics cards. This is about how VRR works on a console.
Gears 4 doesn't seem to benefit. We tried. It uses adaptive v-sync and still showed similar issues as always.
Well, he's technically correct, every platform has a limited/finite library, and we know full well that technically correct is the best kind of correct.
I think DF here assumed FreeSync was system level but I thought it was title by title?
Might explain the games that did not show a difference, some games have the VRR tag some dont on the store.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/store/top-paid/games/xbox?gamecapabilities=capabilityxboxenhanced
A quick look into the past and I can't see Microsoft ever mentioning this before. A pretty big disappointment really.
Still, as they touch on in the video the idea of this being standard in the future is amazing. Hopefully Microsoft can smooth out this version a little more for current day though
It's crazy then why I bought a Xbox One this year due to how expansive the library of games there are.
Who cares about Gsync in this context?
Its proprietary Nvidia tech and limited to PC. It will never be available in TV displays.
That's not really my point.
It's a waste of time because it's 22 minutes long and doesn't explain anything. It just shows it not working and then once, working with Vsync. It feels like it was a livestream, not an edited video to concisely explain the findings. It really feels throughout the video that discoveries were being recorded as they happened. I don't understand why the B-roll footage wasn't shot first and then edited down to get the point across.
There's only two full messages here:
- VRR isn't working in games without VSync
- VRR is working in games with VSync
- Monitor tested had a range from 40(?) to 60hz
And that's literally it. The rest of it is off-cam footage of judder and screen-tearing that is apparently identical to if VRR wasn't enabled anyway.
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As for Gsync, I'm only mentioning it because one thing your video failed to do is to concisely explain and show what VRR is supposed to do anyway. Consoles gamers, and particularly Xbox owners probably won't even know and there are no good examples in your video, so I'm just posting the video here.
That game should be a locked 60fps on the X.
That's strange to hear, considering they list that game as offering VRR.
When I get my XoX tomorrow I'll test it for myself :D it would be remarkable if for some reason, it being so consistently locked 60 means minimal screen tearing.
It will have no screen tearing. Not saying I've actually tested it, but that would be my prediction based on past experiences. The extra power of the X should lock everything down.
Dark1x
So looking back at Battle(non)sense's findings, one thing that could be causing an issue with screen tearing is that he found that to eliminate tearing on PC, he would have to cap the framerate to 130fps for a 144hz display -- for some reason Freesync is a lot less precise with monitoring the fps to change the refresh rate that it's causing it to disengage freesync when it isn't supposed to.
Sadly this could mean that there isn't much use for console VRR if the games will always output to 60hz, because that would mean even ig you stayed with 45-55fps there is a higher chance of freesync disabling.
For games that have VSync enabled, there is perhaps no tearing in thee instances because freesync is disengaging for that frame and is instead engaging vsync to stop the tearing in that instance. I don't know exactly what this would mean but it means that one of the bigger reasons for VRR, being lower input latency, would be nonexistent because standard VSync would have to always be engaged.
So looking back at Battle(non)sense's findings, one thing that could be causing an issue with screen tearing is that he found that to eliminate tearing on PC, he would have to cap the framerate to 130fps for a 144hz display -- for some reason Freesync is a lot less precise with monitoring the fps to change the refresh rate that it's causing it to disengage freesync when it isn't supposed to.
Sadly this could mean that there isn't much use for console VRR if the games will always output to 60hz, because that would mean even ig you stayed with 45-55fps there is a higher chance of freesync disabling.
For games that have VSync enabled, there is perhaps no tearing in thee instances because freesync is disengaging for that frame and is instead engaging vsync to stop the tearing in that instance. I don't know exactly what this would mean but it means that one of the bigger reasons for VRR, being lower input latency, would be nonexistent because standard VSync would have to always be engaged.
I agree that most people won't even know what VRR/Freesync/Gsync is, but I think they did a good job in showing how VRR could be a boon to console gamers who are unfamiliar between 2:11 and 3:11 of the video, where you see the judder-free panning. They also did mention later on in the video during the F1 part, I think , that a tear-free experience is kinda one of the main points of VRR.
This WAS more like a livestream than a concisely edited video. That's exactly what it is. Just a hands on impression piece designed to be quickly edited by Rich.
We had been away at a show all weekend and I had a huge filming project to do the next day - we did this off the cuff after just receiving the monitor.
I don't understand why this is a problem since the video didn't set out to do anything more than that.
Look, the fact is, we can't do high production values on every video. It's just not possible and smaller things like this are a good way to do it.
The thing is that if freesync was working properly it would completely bypass whatever sync method the developers implemented. Freesync and g-sync replace the in game sync method with their own. If the game is still dictating it's own sync method then freesync is not working properly and who knows what's really going on with it enabled in those games.
I think the bigger issue is the 40-60hz range of the monitor. Given that freesync and gsync both disable at a monitor's maximum refresh rate the actual freesync range is 40-59hz. It's most likely far too easy to fall outside that range without the developer putting a lot of effort into making sure their game has consistent frame times with freesync enabled. Ideally the range would be from 20hz to 70+hz. This should be enough to cover all the cases the vast majority of console games would need.