Digital Foundry vs Luigi's Mansion 3, Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3, Mario & Sonic at Olympics and New Super Lucky's Tales

Deleted member 2791 · Jun 22, 2019

Pretty big vid, I'll update the OP as I watch it.

Luigi's Mansion 3:
- Looks excellent
- Native 1080p in pixel-count, but when it moves it breaks down a bit. It may be due to them using strong temporal anti-aliasing or some kind of reconstruction.
- Image quality is really good for a Switch game.
- 30fps lock, but some framepacing issues.

Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3:
- In spite of how chaotic it can be in multiplayer, it's very readable and fun to engage with four players.
- 30fps lock, like the previous games.
- Good image quality.
- Dynamic resolution, goes up to 1080p but is sometimes below that.

Mario and Sonic at the Olympics:
- Lower than 1080p, but it's a nice looking game.

New Super Lucky's Tale:
- Runs at 30fps, vs 60 on Xbox One.
- Seems to be sub 1080p.
- Essentially a softer, worst performer version of the Xbox One game.
- Competent port but nothing outstanding.

Why would you do that? · Jun 22, 2019

I'm really interested in New Super Lucky's Tale. Supposedly they're making pretty substantial changes to the gameplay so that it'll be better than the original SLT. And it'll be interesting to see how it holds up performance-wise compared to original as well, especially since it's Unity, apparently.

Kouriozan · Jun 22, 2019

Still at least 4 months before LM3's launch so there got a bit of time left for the extra polish.

Jaded Alyx · Jun 22, 2019

I somehow missed that it's 'New' Super Lucky's Tale, and not just a direct port. Interesting ..

Raijinto · Jun 22, 2019

Luigi's Mansion 3 is very aesthetically pleasing to watch that's for sure.

Deleted member 2791 · Jun 22, 2019

OP should be good now.

Vinc · Jun 22, 2019

Pleeease fix frame pacing in Luigi's Mansion 3. The animations look so good, they deserve proper frame pacing!

Comic Obsessed · Jun 22, 2019

Shame that MUA3's performance is just 30FPS. Was expecting more from Team Ninja.

Braaier · Jun 22, 2019

Comic Obsessed said:
Shame that MUA3's performance is just 30FPS. Was expecting more from Team Ninja.

I guess past games were also 30 fps? With how chaotic it can get maybe they couldn't reach a consistent 60 fps.

-shadow- · Jun 22, 2019

I'll watch it in a bit, excited to see the analysis!

Mandos · Jun 22, 2019

Comic Obsessed said:
Shame that MUA3's performance is just 30FPS. Was expecting more from Team Ninja.

Dude there's a ridiculous number of both enemies and particle effects on screen at all time far beyond the original game and yet they've managed a stable 30fps. It's impressive. And unlike musous all enemies have active ai here(in musous it's more of a swarm thing

Comic Obsessed · Jun 22, 2019

Mandos said:
Dude there's a ridiculous number of both enemies and particle effects on screen at all time far beyond the original game and yet they've managed a stable 30fps. It's impressive. And unlike musous all enemies have active ai here(in musous it's more of a swarm thing

I'm not talking about Musou games though, I'm talking about regular Team Ninja action games.

Mandos · Jun 22, 2019

Comic Obsessed said:
I'm not talking about Musou games though, I'm talking about regular Team Ninja action games.

Most of those don't have 3 fully active ai partners running around on screen doing the same level of effects as you(or three other players either)

IronFalcon1997 · Jun 22, 2019

Look, I'm happy that they acknowledged the existence of these games, but I wish that they would bring more attention to the advanced features of them like they do with games on other platforms, especially in games like Luigi's Mansion 3, which looks and seems to run fantastic. It's a common problem with their Switch videos; they'll say "it looks nice", point to a couple of things happening, and then ignore almost all of the modern features of the game. I'm not trying to say they're biased or anything, but I just wish that they would put the same level of analysis and detail into their Switch analyses as they do with their other ones.

ILikeFeet · Jun 22, 2019

if Luigi's Mansion is indeed using UE4, then it would make it the highest res UE4 game on the switch.

Lelouch0612 · Jun 22, 2019

ILikeFeet said:
if Luigi's Mansion is indeed using UE4, then it would make it the highest res UE4 game on the switch.

What is the resolution of Dragon Ball FighterZ ?

G_Shumi · Jun 22, 2019

Why would you do that? said:
I'm really interested in New Super Lucky's Tale. Supposedly they're making pretty substantial changes to the gameplay so that it'll be better than the original SLT. And it'll be interesting to see how it holds up performance-wise compared to original as well, especially since it's Unity, apparently.

Hopefully it'll be less buggy too. I played the game on Xbox One last year and it just all fell apart near the end. Lucky would clip through the floor and get stuck, there were deaths from not touching the final boss, and I had one random occurrence where I respawned at the beginning of the final stage and watched as all the collectibles came flying towards Lucky as he just stood there.

Procheno · Jun 22, 2019

I'm a little disappointed, I thought it was going to be an analysis video as the title presented itself being. They barely bothered to talk about the games' actual tech. They pretty much just said resolution and framerate with an accompanied "it looks good". :/

They mostly talk about the gameplay which fair enough is good to hear feedback about how good the games are, but that's not why people truly love about DF. We want to know about the tech! :D I think the branding of the video is just a little off. If they rebrand it as Digital Foundry gameplay impressions, it would adjust expectations properly and fix my issue because I went into it expecting an analysis of the games. And yeah, I expect a full analysis when LM3 comes out, maybe MUA3? Probably not M&S

Deleted member 82 · Jun 22, 2019

Dark1x : great video as always. I take it the Trials of Mana remake wasn't playable then? Such a shame, it looks gorgeous. One thing I noticed: the Treehouse gameplay vid seems to target 30fps, but the trailer shows 60fps gameplay for some reason. Could the trailer be showing the PS4 or Steam version? The seemingly high resolution alone seems to indicate as much. Plus the multiplatform trailer and PS4 trailer look identical. What's your take?

IronFalcon1997 said:
Look, I'm happy that they acknowledged the existence of these games, but I wish that they would bring more attention to the advanced features of them like they do with games on other platforms, especially in games like Luigi's Mansion 3, which looks and seems to run fantastic. It's a common problem with their Switch videos; they'll say "it looks nice", point to a couple of things happening, and then ignore almost all of the modern features of the game. I'm not trying to say they're biased or anything, but I just wish that they would put the same level of analysis and detail into their Switch analyses as they do with their other ones.

It really depends though. You can't expect this level of details from an analysis that's based on hands-on demos of non-final builds of 4 games. I'm sure John and the rest of the team will cover at least a couple of those games once they're out.

ILikeFeet · Jun 22, 2019

Lelouch0612 said:
What is the resolution of Dragon Ball FighterZ ?

looking it up, it seems to be a dynamic res up to 1080p. I guess it depends on how you count "native res" then

LuigiV · Jun 22, 2019

Lelouch0612 said:
What is the resolution of Dragon Ball FighterZ ?

Looking at footage, it seems to be dynamic. Not sure if it every actually hits a full 1080p, though (though I think it gets close).

To add fuel to the Luigi Mansion 3 fire, when I tried to do a pixel count myself, I noticed this:

As you can see the vertical resolution is perfectly crisp; resolving to a native 1080 pixels tall with no AA; but the horizontal shows some kind of blur/interpolation. I think the game may be running at 960x1080 with reconstruction. Maybe some kind of checkerboarding, given the artefacts John noticed.

ILikeFeet · Jun 22, 2019

if you ask me, the artifacting kinda points to the game using UE4. it seems like a more likely result than Next Level building a checkerboarding technique themselves rather than going for dynamic res

RedHeat · Jun 22, 2019

Kinda nice to know MAU3 is 1080p, even if it's dynamic.

LuigiV · Jun 22, 2019

ILikeFeet said:
if you ask me, the artifacting kinda points to the game using UE4. it seems like a more likely result than Next Level building a checkerboarding technique themselves rather than going for dynamic res

Possibly. Though, if that were the case, it would appear it would scale independently on each axis, which is not particularly common on UE4. Guess we'll have to wait until the game comes out to find out for sure. Personally, I don't think it's UE4, given the IQ and super sharp shoadows. UE4 is too heavy.

Sub Boss · Jun 22, 2019

IronFalcon1997 said:
Look, I'm happy that they acknowledged the existence of these games, but I wish that they would bring more attention to the advanced features of them like they do with games on other platforms, especially in games like Luigi's Mansion 3, which looks and seems to run fantastic. It's a common problem with their Switch videos; they'll say "it looks nice", point to a couple of things happening, and then ignore almost all of the modern features of the game. I'm not trying to say they're biased or anything, but I just wish that they would put the same level of analysis and detail into their Switch analyses as they do with their other ones.

They will make nother video when Luigis Mansion releases calm down, DF is very smitten with Switch right now, every single release of notice gets a lenghty video showing until even minor details.these E3 videos are just because they can't wait for the games to release :^P

bytesized · Jun 22, 2019

Luigi's Mansion looks awesome but I'm a bit worried about its handheld performance. I think the art in that game would suffer a lot if it's blurry like Yoshi for example.

ILikeFeet · Jun 22, 2019

bytesized said:
Luigi's Mansion looks awesome but I'm a bit worried about its handheld performance. I think the art in that game would suffer a lot if it's blurry like Yoshi for example.

they said the game is some kind of checkerboarded 1080p. there's nothing to really worry about in handheld mode when Yoshi was less than 720p docked

Deleted member 8791 · Jun 22, 2019

Procheno said:
Where's the analysis? They barely bothered to talk about the games' actual tech. They pretty much just said resolution and framerate with an accompanied "it looks good", woohoo?

They mostly talk about the gameplay which fair enough is good to hear feedback about how good the games are, but that's not why people care about DF. We want to know about the tech and to glance over LM3, MUA3, M&S, and NSLT with surface level comments literally any other website can do goes against the whole point of Digital Foundry.

This is a DF Direct where they take a more casual approach and talk together about topics. This wasn't a deep dive into any of the games, plenty of time to do it come release.

2shd · Jun 22, 2019

I'm not surprised MUA3 is not 60fps on the Switch. If it were on PS4/XBO I would think it could hit that, but not on Switch.

I am glad that it seems to be using a dynamic res to keep it at 30 because it looks like it could tank hard. If the Switch is the only way to play the game I definitely want it locked.

I'm guessing the frame pacing was fine?

Sirhc · Jun 22, 2019

Procheno said:
I'm a little disappointed, I thought it was going to be an analysis video as the title presented itself being. They barely bothered to talk about the games' actual tech. They pretty much just said resolution and framerate with an accompanied "it looks good". :/

They mostly talk about the gameplay which fair enough is good to hear feedback about how good the games are, but that's not why people truly love about DF. We want to know about the tech! :D I think the branding of the video is just a little off. If they rebrand it as Digital Foundry gameplay impressions, it would adjust expectations properly and fix my issue because I went into it expecting an analysis of the games. And yeah, I expect a full analysis when LM3 comes out, maybe MUA3? Probably not M&S

About how I felt about this video, way too unfocused and alot of generalization.

I get that that they are preview builds from E3 so they can't really go too in-depth on final performance. But I would rather hear about the tech being used then random gameplay impressions and butchered game titles.

Can't wait to see the final analysis on LM3 later this year.

RivalGT · Jun 22, 2019

wasn't Super Lucky's Tale 30 fps on xbox one, or has that change in the latest update, I know X was always 60 FPS.

IronFalcon1997 · Jun 22, 2019

Kilrogg said:
Dark1x : great video as always. I take it the Trials of Mana remake wasn't playable then? Such a shame, it looks gorgeous. One thing I noticed: the Treehouse gameplay vid seems to target 30fps, but the trailer shows 60fps gameplay for some reason. Could the trailer be showing the PS4 or Steam version? The seemingly high resolution alone seems to indicate as much. Plus the multiplatform trailer and PS4 trailer look identical. What's your take?

It really depends though. You can't expect this level of details from an analysis that's based on hands-on demos of non-final builds of 4 games. I'm sure John and the rest of the team will cover at least a couple of those games once they're out.

I hope so, but even then, my expectations aren't super high as they usually do a similar thing in just highlighting resolution, frame rate, and issues rather than showcasing what the game can do. With a lot of Switch games, it's about what it can't do, which confuses me because that's not the case for their other analyses.

Dark1x · Jun 22, 2019

IronFalcon1997 said:
Look, I'm happy that they acknowledged the existence of these games, but I wish that they would bring more attention to the advanced features of them like they do with games on other platforms, especially in games like Luigi's Mansion 3, which looks and seems to run fantastic. It's a common problem with their Switch videos; they'll say "it looks nice", point to a couple of things happening, and then ignore almost all of the modern features of the game. I'm not trying to say they're biased or anything, but I just wish that they would put the same level of analysis and detail into their Switch analyses as they do with their other ones.

I often do but you have to understand I was asked to do this in the conversational style without a script so I couldn't specifically point to things. It'll have to wait for the full game. This is just a preview rather than a careful analysis.

Also, I only have 8-10 minutes of capture for each game and can't easily setup shots for closer analysis without the game in my hands.

RivalGT said:
wasn't Super Lucky's Tale 30 fps on xbox one, or has that change in the latest update, I know X was always 60 FPS.

Apparently yes. Richard put a note in there. I had never played it on the base system and we didn't cover it. I was just basing that on my experience with the game on X. It's surprising that it's both 4K native and 60 when the base is 1080p30. That's a larger jump than usual.

Sirhc said:
About how I felt about this video, way too unfocused and alot of generalization.

I get that that they are preview builds from E3 so they can't really go too in-depth on final performance. But I would rather hear about the tech being used then random gameplay impressions and butchered game titles.

Can't wait to see the final analysis on LM3 later this year.

Well I don't have any of those answers right now. I don't know what tech is being used and without having access at home, I can't examine closely. It's hard to say anything definitive after ten minutes of play on a show floor.

BDGAME · Jun 22, 2019

Good analyses. Compare LM3 with Lost Vikings increase my interest on it.

Sirhc · Jun 22, 2019

Dark1x said:
I often do but you have to understand I was asked to do this in the conversational style without a script so I couldn't specifically point to things. It'll have to wait for the full game. This is just a preview rather than a careful analysis.

Also, I only have 8-10 minutes of capture for each game and can't easily setup shots for closer analysis without the game in my hands.

Apparently yes. Richard put a note in there. I had never played it on the base system and we didn't cover it. I was just basing that on my experience with the game on X. It's surprising that it's both 4K native and 60 when the base is 1080p30. That's a larger jump than usual.

Well I don't have any of those answers right now. I don't know what tech is being used and without having access at home, I can't examine closely. It's hard to say anything definitive after ten minutes of play on a show floor.

I appreciate you doing what you can given the limited scope, and glad to see LM3 shaping up well. Eager to see your final look closer to release.

The video format feels very weird and off brand for a DF video though for sure, I think everyone is accustomed to the usual tech deep dives that DF normally does.

The thread title not specifying this is a "Direct" probably not helping be with that(maybe direct not the best term for a looser format video like this despite the Nintendo focused idea).

BDGAME said:
Good analyses. Compare LM3 with Lost Vikings increase my interest on it.

Yeah that was a great comparison, hope there is alot more interactivity and danger for Gooigi later with water hazards to keep you bouncing back and forth.

Dark1x · Jun 22, 2019

Sirhc said:
I appreciate you doing what you can given the limited scope, and glad to see LM3 shaping up well. Eager to see your final look closer to release.

The video format feels very weird and off brand for a DF video though for sure, I think everyone is accustomed to the usual tech deep dives that DF normally does.

The thread title not specifying this is a "Direct" probably not helping be with that(maybe direct not the best term for a looser format video like this despite the Nintendo focused idea).

Yeah that was a great comparison, hope there is alot more interactivity and danger for Gooigi later with water hazards to keep you bouncing back and forth.

Well, we want to do more casual videos like this on a weekly basis in addition to normal vids. Hopefully it works out.

The issue is that the more detailed ones take a lot of time to make and we're all kind of burning out. So need to include extra stuff like this that is easier and more fun to make.

Dash Kappei · Jun 22, 2019

Why would you do that? said:
I'm really interested in New Super Lucky's Tale. Supposedly they're making pretty substantial changes to the gameplay so that it'll be better than the original SLT. And it'll be interesting to see how it holds up performance-wise compared to original as well, especially since it's Unity, apparently.

I honestly don't understand what people see in this game. It's average, there's nothing remarkable about it, it's ok if collectathon platformers are your favorite genre but there's nothing that it does really well or differently. It's fine to mess with it on Games Pass, imo. I played the Xbox One version. Btw I have a hard time believing the game is 60fps, I uninstalled it but I'm pretty sure it was 30fps at least on OG Xbox One. Maybe I'm wrong, DF sure knows a lot more than I do, but I'm not convinced at all.

plagiarize · Jun 22, 2019

From what I saw of New Super Lucky's Tale on the Nintendo Treehouse, it looks more like a sequel than a port. I mean, I believe it IS built on Super Lucky's Tale, but the amount of changes and brand new content looks to be very substantial to the point I'm thinking of it more as a whole new game.

Compare:
SLT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=14&v=ro49vlUudok

NSLT

https://youtu.be/YI68e0ZULmk?t=91

This is supposedly the same level. New's version of it has a ridiculous amount more content.

SiG · Jun 22, 2019

Dark1x The guys behind Luigi's Mansion 3 and Luigi's Mansion Dark Moon are non other than Next Level Games, the guys behind Punch Out for Wii and the Mario Strikers games, hence why the animation quality looks superb.

When you guys do a technical review of LM3, it's best to look at their history as it's pretty impressive how much of their work still holds up...with maybe the exception of Metroid: Federation Forces.

But yeah, Next Level Games has managed to make a technical showcase for Luigi's Mansion yet again, this time a little bit more cutting edge than the original was at its time.

Edit: People have been mentioning how Next Level Games are still considered 3rd party developers despite having pledged to work only for Nintendo games hence forth (since 2014). Shouldn't they be considered second party?

Why would you do that? · Jun 22, 2019

Dash Kappei said:
I honestly don't understand what people see in this game. It's average, there's nothing remarkable about it, it's ok if collectathon platformers are your favorite genre but there's nothing that it does really well or differently. It's fine to mess with it on Games Pass, imo. I played the Xbox One version. Btw I have a hard time believing the game is 60fps, I uninstalled it but I'm pretty sure it was 30fps at least on OG Xbox One. Maybe I'm wrong, DF sure knows a lot more than I do, but I'm not convinced at all.

For me, I played the original LT in VR and thought it had very good and tight controls, it had good variety so I didn't get too bored, and it was kinda cute, lol. I haven't played SLT but watching E3 footage of New SLT makes me feel like it'll be even better than the original LT. I know SLT had a mediocre reception, but they're adding so much to New SLT that I don't think the reviews will be applicable.

To your second point, Dark10x just mentioned above that you're right, it was 1080p 30 on Xbox One and 4K 60 on Xbox One X, which is unusual.

plagiarize · Jun 22, 2019

Why would you do that? said:
For me, I played the original LT in VR and thought it had very good and tight controls, it had good variety so I didn't get too bored, and it was kinda cute, lol. I haven't played SLT but watching E3 footage of New SLT makes me feel like it'll be even better than the original LT. I know SLT had a mediocre reception, but they're adding so much to New SLT that I don't think the reviews will be applicable.

To your second point, Dark10x just mentioned above that you're right, it was 1080p 30 on Xbox One and 4K 60 on Xbox One X, which is unusual.

I've got to imagine it wasn't far off hitting 60 fps on Xbox One, but they couldn't get it there, so they capped it at 30, given that. Still, it's somewhat unfortunate that each version of this (if we consider SLT as a 60 fps on X) has lost 30 fps. 90 -> 60 -> 30. Still that treehouse footage almost sold me on this one, and it's not wrong to say as Dark did in his video, that this kind of game plays fine at 30.

ILikeFeet · Jun 22, 2019

SiG said:
Edit: People have been mentioning how Next Level Games are still considered 3rd party developers despite having pledged to work only for Nintendo games hence forth (since 2014). Shouldn't they be considered second party?

third party and first party developers refers to studio ownership. "second party" is a rather nebulous term

nelsonroyale · Jun 22, 2019

Luigis Mansion 3 looks great

metsallica · Jun 22, 2019

Dark1x said:
Well, we want to do more casual videos like this on a weekly basis in addition to normal vids. Hopefully it works out.

The issue is that the more detailed ones take a lot of time to make and we're all kind of burning out. So need to include extra stuff like this that is easier and more fun to make.

I love the new blend of the casual videos with the deep-dives. It's a natural evolution of the platform and allows your personalities to come through. Keep it up please!

litebrite · Jun 22, 2019

ILikeFeet said:
third party and first party developers refers to studio ownership. "second party" is a rather nebulous term

Exactly. So it sounds like Next Level Games is a third party developer that has been making first party games for Nintendo..

kirbyfan407 · Jun 22, 2019

plagiarize said:
From what I saw of New Super Lucky's Tale on the Nintendo Treehouse, it looks more like a sequel than a port. I mean, I believe it IS built on Super Lucky's Tale, but the amount of changes and brand new content looks to be very substantial to the point I'm thinking of it more as a whole new game.

Compare:
SLT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=14&v=ro49vlUudok
NSLT

https://youtu.be/YI68e0ZULmk?t=91

This is supposedly the same level. New's version of it has a ridiculous amount more content.

Thank you for posting these two videos. It's only after seeing these that I understand how exactly they transformed the game. Based on that level, it's like a total reimagining of the concept. Also, I'm not doing a side-by-side comparison, but I'm not noticing much of a downgrade in visuals either. It's really cool how much effort it seems the developers are putting into the Switch version. Hopefully this new version is received better than the original was, as I might want to check it out.

plagiarize · Jun 22, 2019

kirbyfan407 said:
Thank you for posting these two videos. It's only after seeing these that I understand how exactly they transformed the game. Based on that level, it's like a total reimagining of the concept. Also, I'm not doing a side-by-side comparison, but I'm not noticing much of a downgrade in visuals either. It's really cool how much effort it seems the developers are putting into the Switch version. Hopefully this new version is received better than the original was, as I might want to check it out.

It was one of the smaller levels in the original, so I can see why they'd have made it a priority for remaking, and why they'd show this particular level in the direct. But yeah, we're looking at new side scrolling levels, some completely rebuilt levels like this one, new gameplay mechanics and probably more. It might only be a competent port of the engine, but this is clearly something a lot more effort has gone into than I think most people realized.

I only realized because I caught the direct, it made me want to play it some more (I'd not gotten too far into it), and Soggy Boggy Boys was a level I hit about an hour later. I don't think this is Microsoft letting an exclusive get ported. This is one of those 'ports' like Ninja Gaiden 2 Sigma.

Neiteio · Jun 22, 2019

Dark1x said:
Well, we want to do more casual videos like this on a weekly basis in addition to normal vids. Hopefully it works out.

The issue is that the more detailed ones take a lot of time to make and we're all kind of burning out. So need to include extra stuff like this that is easier and more fun to make.

I appreciate this new approach. I think it's nice that you guys both understand the technical side of games, but also admire good gameplay and design -- the "heart" of a game. Sometimes people who examine tech seem to elevate it above all other things, but you guys do an admirable job keeping the whole picture in perspective. It gives me a sense of your own tastes in gaming, which makes it easier to tell where you're coming from and such. :-)

Yautja_Warrior · Jun 22, 2019

Luigi's Mansion 3 is looking great. Fingers crossed they fix the framepacing issue but if not it never really bothers me anyway, so it wouldn't be a major issue for me.

Remo Williams · Jun 22, 2019

Dash Kappei said:
I honestly don't understand what people see in this game. It's average, there's nothing remarkable about it, it's ok if collectathon platformers are your favorite genre but there's nothing that it does really well or differently. It's fine to mess with it on Games Pass, imo. I played the Xbox One version. Btw I have a hard time believing the game is 60fps, I uninstalled it but I'm pretty sure it was 30fps at least on OG Xbox One. Maybe I'm wrong, DF sure knows a lot more than I do, but I'm not convinced at all.

I really enjoyed my time with it. It doesn't do anything terribly new or remarkable, but it's well crafted and fun, especially the whole package with the DLC episodes. I've played some bland and boring platformers in my life, and Lucky isn't one of them.

The additions to the new edition seem to be considerable, and I'm looking forward to (re)playing it as soon as possible.

Digital Foundry vs Luigi's Mansion 3, Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3, Mario & Sonic at Olympics and New Super Lucky's Tales

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