From the demo I played, I really disliked the stealth. Enemies would spot me constantly and it was annoying trying to pick them out of the environment. I had more fun in the first one from what I remember of it
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Dishonored 2 is the best product out of western game development.
- Thread starter Silky
- Start date
on one hand it's a perfectly competent game, a great game even. but with as big a hit as the first game was and the rich world building it introduced, it kind of felt like an afterthought. i think some of that "been there, done that" sentiment seeped into the marketing thus it not really catching on
IMO, that goes against a lot of the underlying design principles of the genre. It's about adapting to a changing situation. Perfect stealth is extremely difficult and requires extreme precision and knowledge. So the average player has two choices. They either save scum like crazy, or they wing it and keep going as scenarios unravel. Or some combination of the two. In Thief, you couldn't fight back against enemies very well, but if you were spotted you had plenty of ways to get out that situation. Including running like hell and hoping you can lose them, trying to use verticality, and so on.
You mention Human Revolution. That game's stealth is extremely generous. Enemies have very limited FOV. They have very limited hearing. You have a minimap that shows where enemies are looking. The level design is full of vents for moving unseen. Dishonored 2 isn't like that. You have to carefully peek around corners. (On higher difficulties, enemies can see you peeking if you peek too long.) What you can see from a first person perspective is critical. You have to use all the tools at your disposal. You can't just crouch walk your way across the level using waist-high cover to avoid being seen. I'm not knocking Human Revolution but its stealth design is extremely simple compared to even the original Deus Ex.
One criticism I have of Dishonored 2, that said, is that it eschews light and dark as a stealth mechanic. The dark and stealth go hand in hand. Removing it as a tool does make the Dishonored series feel less easily sneakable. It's not necessarily a bad change, but one that makes the game feel very different to its spiritual predecessor.
I do like them. I even loved the first Dishonored game including the DLC. But somehow Dishonored 2 doesn't click for me.
My problems with Dishonored 2:
- it felt like a sequel for the sake of a sequel. It's clear that Dishonored wasn't made with a second game in mind. Kind of like the Hangover 2
- the levels were bigger, but I didn't really feel they were better in terms of level design
- the characters (which are the only good part of the story in one IMO) were less interested yet the game thinks that you love the story. It really likes its own story too which is weird because it isn't very good
Still a really good game just not as good as 1 for me. I should probably point out that the first one is one of my favourites ever, but there are several (also western) games above it.
- it felt like a sequel for the sake of a sequel. It's clear that Dishonored wasn't made with a second game in mind. Kind of like the Hangover 2
- the levels were bigger, but I didn't really feel they were better in terms of level design
- the characters (which are the only good part of the story in one IMO) were less interested yet the game thinks that you love the story. It really likes its own story too which is weird because it isn't very good
Still a really good game just not as good as 1 for me. I should probably point out that the first one is one of my favourites ever, but there are several (also western) games above it.
Arkane now it's time to do Arx Fatalis 2, although ditch the gesture spell casting. Make it an immersive sim or keep it as a RPG, I don't mind either way. Such an underrated (and commercial failure), but unique game, and I think it would do well now.
It's just conjecture based on the fact that they put up job postings for monetization designers recently.
Yep, all the complaints people make at those sorts of games are pretty much non existent in games like Prey or Dishonored 2, but these are the games you always see a ton of LTTP threads for. Or other great games like Alien Isolation or TEW2.
People's idea of a perfect game also seems to line up with their idea of the perfect "will buy on sale" game. And we wonder why those sorts of games are being made less and less.
Really? I genuinely can't think of a single level in the first game that rivals the likes of Clockwork Mansion and a Crack in the Slab, like not even remotely. Boyle Mansion was probably the closest but when you look at the complexity of level design it's not even close.
In response to the OP, I really liked Dishonored 2 but struggled with the stealth side of things, felt like it had got a lot harder from the first game and I wasn't necessarily a fan of that. I know they eventually released a patch allowing you to tailor your experience to make stealth easier if you wanted to but that was after my time with the game.
I don't know a single person irl that has beaten it, three of my friends bought the expensive edition with the Corvo mask, none of them ever finished the game.
Same goes for me, one of those friends lent me his copy and for some reason, I can't bring myself to finish it and I just don't know why. It's a fun game and it's good but... I dunno why I am not as interested in it as I was with Dishonored 1, and neither of my friends can figure it out either
Same goes for me, one of those friends lent me his copy and for some reason, I can't bring myself to finish it and I just don't know why. It's a fun game and it's good but... I dunno why I am not as interested in it as I was with Dishonored 1, and neither of my friends can figure it out either
I was like this with the Thief games, despite absolutely loving them, the concentration and slowly going through the level to try and "perfect" it took a lot out of me, to the point where I didn't fire it up for long periods as I just wasn't in the mood for more of it. Did have to push myself to finish them, but glad I did in the end. Had the same issue with D1.
Had no problem like this with D2 though, after a sea of triple A shit this game had me by the balls, absolutely loved it.
My main issue with the Dishonored series is that it feels too much like an amalgamation of other series without really offering anything new or ever doing anything better. I did enjoy both games though (the first one a lot more than the second for some reason).
As someone who loves Arkane and has a platinum trophy in Prey/Dishonored/Dishonored 2/Death of the Outsider, I have to say that I liked the original Dishonored better.
I think it was a mistake to have a talking protagonist in the second Dishonored. I always loved that Corvo was a completely silent assassin, and that you could pick to be benevolent or not, but you spoke through your actions and became revered through your own personal choices. I think whenever a voice actor is introduced, it's nearly impossible to have the tone of their voice or their demeanor not predetermine what way you should play. And honestly, that's how I felt in Dishonored 2 and I hated it.
Corvo was a conduit for player agency in the first game and became a narrative chess piece revolving around Emily in the second game, it sucked. That said, gameplay was still top notch and I loved all the innovations they added with the powers. I wish the series didn't have to die. I'll never get it but I could honestly go for a Dishonored 3, 4, and 5. I would put the first Dishonored (as a complete package with its DLC and challenge levels) as probably one of my top 10 games of all time.
I think it was a mistake to have a talking protagonist in the second Dishonored. I always loved that Corvo was a completely silent assassin, and that you could pick to be benevolent or not, but you spoke through your actions and became revered through your own personal choices. I think whenever a voice actor is introduced, it's nearly impossible to have the tone of their voice or their demeanor not predetermine what way you should play. And honestly, that's how I felt in Dishonored 2 and I hated it.
Corvo was a conduit for player agency in the first game and became a narrative chess piece revolving around Emily in the second game, it sucked. That said, gameplay was still top notch and I loved all the innovations they added with the powers. I wish the series didn't have to die. I'll never get it but I could honestly go for a Dishonored 3, 4, and 5. I would put the first Dishonored (as a complete package with its DLC and challenge levels) as probably one of my top 10 games of all time.
The amount of lore they created for the series suggests otherwise. They clearly built a world and history with the intent to explore multiple settings, much like Elder Scrolls did. Also, the DLC for the first game ties directly into the second game. You may not have liked Dishonored 2 but it's pretty obvious that Arkane was looking beyond just the first game when developing the IP.
Also, Bethesda wouldn't have funded Dishonored if Arkane pitched it as a one-off. Publishers are only interested in franchises and Arkane undoubtedly had to account for that when developing the idea.
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I started it twice and dropped it after the first 2-3 missions both times, in general i love these kind of games but for some reason Dishonored 2 doesn't really click with me. I liked Deus Ex: Mankind Divided a lot more for example, played through that five times already. Maybe i should give it another try!? I know i haven't even seen the really good stuff, like the often cited Clockwork Mansion. I really want to like it, hopefully i can get at least through the next time.
I prefer the first game. I wish they had made more content for that back then. A level editor would have probably meant I would play it forever as it could easily inherit the Thief fan mission communities (and probably get Thief based campaigns too, espesially if they could add water arrow and rope arrow functions). I played the sequel but between the initial technical issues (it's alright now, far from perfect but alright) and the first few levels at least not having very interesting design in my opinion, I didn't stick with it.
I wouldn't be so hyperbolic but yeah Arkane is great studio even if the FP view is a rebuttal for the couch potatoe that I became.
What I find strange is the medium popularity of their games on Steam.
I am not a PC gamer anymore but that's the kind of games I dreamed about between HL2, Portal and STALKER
What I find strange is the medium popularity of their games on Steam.
I am not a PC gamer anymore but that's the kind of games I dreamed about between HL2, Portal and STALKER
That's disappointing. That likely means their next game will have some sort of loot within it. Not sure how loot would fit with a Dishonored type game. Hope what they are making is true to their history.
Despite the extremely bold statement in the title, I will say that Arkane are probably my favourite developers nowadays. Prey quickly became one of my favourite games of all time, but was unlucky enough to come out in a year as stacked as 2017. I think I enjoyed Dishonored 1 more than 2 though, mostly a combination of novelty and a more interesting overall story (imo). Though I will agree with others that D2's levels are almost universally better.
Arkane is definitely unparalleled in the realms of level design and art direction. I wouldn't say that D2 is the best western game ever, but what it does it does extremely well.
Unfortunately, immersive sims and stealth games in general (with the exception of MGS) have never been all that popular with the mainstream crowd. Enthusiasts respect the freedom it gives to the player, the open ended nature of gameplay and intricately constructed levels, neither of those things are all that interesting to the minstream crowd who would prefer tightly constructed linear levels where every move you make is dictated by the script. To clarify, I don't think that linearity is inherently a bad thing, there is plenty of space for that in gaming and most of us enjoy occasional Uncharted or something else of that nature. What I'm trying to say is, immersive sims are as fun as you make them be, designers give you tools, how do you use them is up to you.
Unfortunately, immersive sims and stealth games in general (with the exception of MGS) have never been all that popular with the mainstream crowd. Enthusiasts respect the freedom it gives to the player, the open ended nature of gameplay and intricately constructed levels, neither of those things are all that interesting to the minstream crowd who would prefer tightly constructed linear levels where every move you make is dictated by the script. To clarify, I don't think that linearity is inherently a bad thing, there is plenty of space for that in gaming and most of us enjoy occasional Uncharted or something else of that nature. What I'm trying to say is, immersive sims are as fun as you make them be, designers give you tools, how do you use them is up to you.
man unless you have a 15 year old PC I don't really see the point in why this is even a question lol >.>
Oh, the game gives you tools to play stealthy, but also to become a mass murderer monster.
One thing I'll definitely say is the detail in custom difficulty options are something I'd like to see in basically every other game.
Everything from how many enemies can attack you at once, how likely they are to run away from a fight and how persistent they are in hunting you, how fast sleep darts kick in, how much potions heal you by etc.
It's a great way to tailor the game to be easier where you want it to be easier, and harder where you want it to be harder.
Everything from how many enemies can attack you at once, how likely they are to run away from a fight and how persistent they are in hunting you, how fast sleep darts kick in, how much potions heal you by etc.
It's a great way to tailor the game to be easier where you want it to be easier, and harder where you want it to be harder.
I read there were some bug fixes for the 360 and new lighting? and the character leveling is different? I couldn't find a consensus on the best version though but admittedly I've not looked that hard.
The AI is absolutely fantastic, though. It makes most quote unquote "stealth" game AI seem deaf and blind and comparison. You have to meticulously hide bodies, unconscious or dead. You have to be extremely careful about how much noise you make because a single clattering bottle can bring guards running on a bad day. You have to carefully peek around corners and over ledges. The AI is sharp, responsive, and coordinated. Instead of handing you a clear path to your destination on a platter, you have to WORK to get through areas.
I played the 360 version like a decade ago and can't remember much of a difference.
There's also a big fan patch that was passing around when I played the PC version though so that may have added in anything the 360 version had.
I agree with you.
But Dishonored 2 forces me, via Trophys, to this play style. At some games, games that i really like, i want to get the Platinum. As good as the Arkane Games are as shitty are their Trophys. The Trophys for Prey were a pain too.
And i love that easy stealth approach of DeusEx HR. I have the ambition to play it stealthy and if it is a bit easier, i am glad
You need to learn to let go of trophies and achievements, especially if getting them harms your enjoyment of a game.
I know... But it is not that easy. In a way i like them. In some Games they bring the feel of completion.
A very good Platinum for example was God of War, Game was great, Platinum was doable in one run, no shitty tasks to do, it made fun to get it.
Arkane Games Trophys... That the other side.... If you play blind you got to play it three or four times in a very specific way.
It was so satisfying to finish the game without getting spotted/without killing anyone. Especially because the level design is just so god damn good. I really want to do a High Chaos playthrough as well some day.
I wish Dishonored would click with me. I've tried both, but I can never get into it. Though I felt that way about Prey once upon a time, and now I'm completely in love with it. Maybe I should revisit.
I want to like it and play more of it, but somehow it just totally fails to connect with me at all.
The hyperbolic thread titles today aren't doing anyone any favours. Game has some solid elements, but falls flat in others (story, pacing) so I'm not sure how you can make so certain a claim.
If nothing else there's enough variety in the levels that replays can feel very different. Mixing up and experimenting with powers and approaches can really add to the replayability, and I think immersive sims like Dishonored are much better to replay than more gameplay-linear (I don't really know how else to express this) games.
Immersive sims are the only games I replay, so I always make my first playthrough blind and focused on doing whatever I want, knowing I can get the trickier or more specific stuff next time round.
