Disney severs ties with James Gunn after controversial tweets

[Deleted member 31817]

Making a pedo joke for a company that brands themselves on "family friendly" is probably the worst crime in Disney's eyes

Also iirc Johnny Depp was never charged with beating his wife.

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"During the entirety of our relationship, Johnny has been verbally and physically abusive to me," Heard submitted in court at the time. "I endured excessive emotional, verbal and physical abuse from Johnny, which has included angry, hostile, humiliating and threatening assaults to me whenever I questioned his authority or disagreed with him."

Depp, through his lawyers, claimed Heard was ginning up bad press to increase her payout for the "short marriage." Heard later withdrew her request for a permanent restraining order, and the couple reached a settlement agreement in August 2016.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/933941001


So family friendly


Also has been reported numerous times, they already knew about the jokes and he already apologized about them. In 2012.

 

[R0b1n]

He didn't make them yesterday. They've literally been sitting there before he was hired by that same company. The same company that hired him when his resume was nothing but troma b movies full of gore and crass humor and his g rated porn. Stuff he's already stopped doing 7 years ago and apologized for

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Yeah, they would have been happy to continue and ignore everything if the tweets were not suddenly brought into public attention.

 

[Deleted member 31817]

Yeah, they would have been happy to continue and ignore everything if the tweets were not suddenly brought into public attention.

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Do you not read? They were already brought in to public attention. In 2012. When he apologized for them.

 

[R0b1n]

Do you not read? They were already brought in to public attention. In 2012. When he apologized for them.

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That was for his blog post iirc, not the pedo jokes

 

[Deleted member 31817]

That was for his blog post iirc, not the pedo jokes

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This was the statement from his brother

"This isn't new information, by the way. It's all stuff that James has explained many times in interviews, in more detail and more eloquently. It's not some new spin. It's always been part of the story."

 

[Deleted member 31817]

And this was from the link I posted earlier

"I felt like Guardians forced me into a much deeper way of thinking about, you know, my relationship to people, I suppose. I was a very nasty guy on Twitter. It was a lot fucking edgy, in-your-face, dirty stuff. I suddenly was working for Marvel and Disney, and that didn't seem like something I could do anymore. I thought that that would be a hindrance on my life. But the truth was it was a big, huge opening for me. I realized, a lot of that stuff is a way that I push away people. When I was forced into being this" — he moved his hand over his chest — "I felt more fully myself."

And what's "this"?

"Sensitive, I guess?" he said. "Positive. I mean, I really do love people. And by not having jokes to make about whatever was that offensive topic of the week, that forced me into just being who I really was, which was a pretty positive person. It felt like a relief.""

https://www.buzzfeed.com/adambvary/james-gunn-guardians-of-the-galaxy?utm_term=.heaZzEVKv#.vlKjLBy9N

 

[R0b1n]

This was the statement from his brother

"This isn't new information, by the way. It's all stuff that James has explained many times in interviews, in more detail and more eloquently. It's not some new spin. It's always been part of the story."

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Maybe my google skills are horrible but I legitimately cannot find anything about him apologizing for the pedo jokes in particular, only about the blog post.

http://comicbook.com/marvel/2018/07...red-offensive-comments-previously-apologized/

Edit: Oh, he did a general apology for his twitter. Alright, seems that my google skills do suck

 

[Deleted member 31817]

Maybe my google skills are horrible but I legitimately cannot find anything about him apologizing for the pedo jokes in particular, only about the blog post.

http://comicbook.com/marvel/2018/07...red-offensive-comments-previously-apologized/

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"I felt like Guardians forced me into a much deeper way of thinking about, you know, my relationship to people, I suppose. I was a very nasty guy on Twitter. It was a lot fucking edgy, in-your-face, dirty stuff. I suddenly was working for Marvel and Disney, and that didn't seem like something I could do anymore. I thought that that would be a hindrance on my life. But the truth was it was a big, huge opening for me. I realized, a lot of that stuff is a way that I push away people. When I was forced into being this" — he moved his hand over his chest — "I felt more fully myself."

And what's "this"?

"Sensitive, I guess?" he said. "Positive. I mean, I really do love people. And by not having jokes to make about whatever was that offensive topic of the week, that forced me into just being who I really was, which was a pretty positive person. It felt like a relief.""

https://www.buzzfeed.com/adambvary/james-gunn-guardians-of-the-galaxy?utm_term=.heaZzEVKv#.vlKjLBy9N

 

[Deleted member 888]

No one has to accept an apology, but there a difference between accepting and apology and not noticing people can and have changed. One is your right the other is just being petty

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Bingo.

There's a lot of young men and teenage boys out there right now making asses of themselves who hopefully will grow up one day. Growing up not in the sense of direct age, but growing as a person and understanding there's more to life than just trolling and stirring the pot as a means of "entertainment". It's possible to have fun in life and laugh and be involved in comedy without always setting out to hurt or troll others.

Stories of genuine redemption to improve oneself have to be recognised as factual even if you yourself don't accept the apology/will never like the person. Otherwise you help perpetuate a system where those that do genuinely seek self-improvement end up discarded anyway giving off the idea it doesn't matter if someone tries to change.

Especially when we're talking about verbal slights, such as crass humour and ill-intended jokes. It's not as if we're wading into systematic abuse and/or violence here. There's many males on the fringes of trying to be funny and being colossal idiots. Some of them have shorter paths to redemption than more of the serious offenders. As sure, if you're talking about felonies and very serious offences, the concept of both forgiveness and redemption are much harder and challenging. There's a colossal canyon between telling ill-conceived and poorly constructed jokes about paedophilia and being a paedophile and the fact some seem to try and mix the two is pretty apalling.

Even although I have no real issues with Disney acting because its as inevitable as fuck and Gunn should have deleted his old tweets, I do see value in challenging people who are that fatalistic/pessimistic around the ability for someone to better themself. Gunn for all intents and purposes clearly has, at least publicly. Which is all us onlookers have to go on as we can't read minds.

His brother and some colleagues have backed him, but for the pessimistic, yeah okay, family and friends tend to stick by one and other. It's still some insight into his working and personal character.

 

[Arebours]

Puritanical dystopia.

 

[Emmz]

Making a pedo joke for a company that brands themselves on "family friendly" is probably the worst crime in Disney's eyes

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I always find the "family friendly" thing fascinating.

Disney just banked $2B on a film that created a cultural phenomenon out of the main character succeeding at the genocide of half of the life in the universe. It's cartoonish and disconnected and distant from reality in how it's executed in Infinity War... it doesn't have the palpable sense of wrongness that Gunn's jokes do, but make no mistake that a lot of 15 year old armchair high school philosophers will look at that as a good idea. It's anything but a bit of family friendly entertainment and is likely the most heinous act ever portrayed on film when you really think about it. The film even goes to great lengths to make the audience sympathize with Thanos (and perhaps even for a small portion of viewers, agree with him).

I guess my ultimate point is that these films portray endless violence, killing, racial stereotypes... things that are normalized into society in spite of them representing objectively larger problems in the real world. A child rape joke just has a more kneejerk response than a movie that just killed half of the children on Earth as its primary conceit. You also can't simultaneously argue that the film is fiction while the joke is real... because it's a joke. If Gunn turned out to be Jared Fogle or Kevin Spacey behind the scenes, then it's a different story, but there's not indication of that.

 

[Joni]

Except of your RDJ or Johnny Depp. Drugs and beating your wife totally fine, making a shitty joke, totally not cool

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We are going to pretend Robert Downey Jr was just welcomed back? His career was practically dead, he got a couple of chances thanks to his friends, and then knocked it so hard out of the park - while not retaining any of his old bad behavior - that the studio didn't have any other chance but to renew his contract, which according to Terrence Howard was never the plan. Downey would have been phazed out after Iron Man for the more stable Howard. It is when Robert became the breakout star, they needed to renew his contract at a hefty price and kicked out Howard. And that was all before Disney got the franchise. As for Depp, filming for his latest Disney film were done before the Amber Heard story was out. James Gunn is just way more easy to replace, regardless if you think he should or shouldn't be. Would have been smarter for him to nuke his account after he joined Disney though.

 

[R0b1n]

I always find the "family friendly" thing fascinating.

Disney just banked $2B on a film that created a cultural phenomenon out of the main character succeeding at the genocide of half of the life in the universe. It's cartoonish and disconnected and distant from reality in how it's executed in Infinity War... it doesn't have the palpable sense of wrongness that Gunn's jokes do, but make no mistake that a lot of 15 year old armchair high school philosophers will look at that as a good idea. It's anything but a bit of family friendly entertainment and is likely the most heinous act ever portrayed on film when you really think about it, and the film goes to great lengths to make the audience sympathize with Thanos (and perhaps even for a small portion of viewers, agree with him).

I guess my ultimate point is that these films portray endless violence, killing, racial stereotypes... things that are normalized into society in spite of them representing objectively larger problems in the real world. A child rape joke just has a more kneejerk response than a movie that just killed half of the children on Earth as its primary conceit.

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In Murica, everyone knows that killing and stereotypes are okay. But god forbid if a titty appears or someone jokes about harming children.

 

[Deleted member 18095]

Holy shit.

You guys have lost your damn minds.

You don't get to police people's opinions or bully them as "tools" or accuse them for being part of the Alt Right just because they don't agree. And before y'all come at me with that shit, no. The fucking AltRight has me as some target for god knows why (fuck y'all for logging my posts btw, hi assholes)

So sorry I ain't a part of them either

Someone has experienced personal pain and assault and that changes people's perspectives on issues.

"This is bigger than your personal pain"

What kind of holier than thou moral liberal type shit is that? Wtf?

Truly spoken as someone who's never been fucking abused or had to deal with some traumatic shit.

You guys are going stircrazy. He's a fucking white male director. His career is far from over. He will be fine. Your damn movie will still be made.

Fucking James Gunn took this news better than y'all right now, he's the one who actually lost something here.

Shape the fuck up. Take all this energy and anger and point it at Cernovich or whoever the fuck he is. Mobilize, do a public campaign to let the world know how shitty he is.

50 fucking pages of discussion like y'all think this thread is doing anything important in this matter.

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Could not agree more with you. You are not alone here. I read the thread and all I see is paranoid thinking.

 

[Alice]

Could not agree more with you. You are not alone here. I read the thread and all I see is paranoid thinking.

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And I see people supposedly on "my side" willingly and openly *ignoring* the Alt-Right involvement, because they would rather be pissed at Gunn and have their twisted sense of "revenge" fulfilled.

I've been with Antifa for longer than a good portion of posters on this board have been alive, I don't need someone telling me to "waste my energy elsewhere", when this is fucking part of the same damn fight I've always been fighting.

You're out of your mind for ignoring the Nazis who started all this fucking shit.

We are going to pretend Robert Downey Jr was just welcomed back? His career was practically dead, he got a couple of chances thanks to his friends, and then knocked it so hard out of the park - while not retaining any of his old bad behavior - that the studio didn't have any other chance but to renew his contract, which according to Terrence Howard was never the plan. Downey would have been phazed out after Iron Man for the more stable Howard. It is when Robert became the breakout star, they needed to renew his contract at a hefty price and kicked out Howard. And that was all before Disney got the franchise. As for Depp, filming for his latest Disney film were done before the Amber Heard story was out. James Gunn is just way more easy to replace, regardless if you think he should or shouldn't be. Would have been smarter for him to nuke his account after he joined Disney though.

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Yeah, I really don't like this "Throw RDJ in front of the bus" angle either, just like Gunn, RDJ has had a huge comeback from his shithead days. He's redeemed himself just as much.

 

[Caja 117]

Googling says he gave $20k to a rainforest charity and promised $100k if Trump steps on a scale so I doubt that one happened. I'm specifically talking about charities that help stop the exploitation of children or LGBT related charities. Donating to causes based on showing he's come around from his past social media comments. I can't really find how he's spoken out against this kind of stuff either other than the one apology that's getting mentioned with this story and dominating google hits on this.

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I really wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt, but your reply seems to be goal post moving at this point, I cant take your responses in good faith at all.

 

[subpar spatula]

He didn't make them yesterday. They've literally been sitting there before he was hired by that same company. The same company that hired him when his resume was nothing but troma b movies full of gore and crass humor and his g rated porn. Stuff he's already stopped doing 7 years ago and apologized for

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Troma isn't a red flag. It was a company that had a market. It is seen as legit work. Twitter isn't given that status. Y'all need to accept that Twitter jokes aren't given the same consideration as a movie or TV show.

 

[davepoobond]

Troma isn't a red flag. It was a company that had a market. It is seen as legit work. Twitter isn't given that status. Y'all need to accept that Twitter jokes aren't given the same consideration as a movie or TV show.

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Twitter isn't given that status according to.... you?

not sure where that arbitrary standard comes from. who is proctor of "legitimate market for content creation" in your mind, and what is the approval process like to get a platform approved?

 

[subpar spatula]

Twitter isn't given that status according to.... you?

not sure where that arbitrary standard comes from. who is proctor of "legitimate market for content creation" in your mind, and what is the approval process like to get a platform approved?

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Ask employers who fire employees for the things they post there?

 

[Apathy]

And I see people supposedly on "my side" willingly and openly *ignoring* the Alt-Right involvement, because they would rather be pissed at Gunn and have their twisted sense of "revenge" fulfilled.

I've been with Antifa for longer than a good portion of posters on this board have been alive, I don't need someone telling me to "waste my energy elsewhere", when this is fucking part of the same damn fight I've always been fighting.

You're out of your mind for ignoring the Nazis who started all this fucking shit.



Yeah, I really don't like this "Throw RDJ in front of the bus" angle either, just like Gunn, RDJ has had a huge comeback from his shithead days. He's redeemed himself just as much.

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I don't think most that are bringing up rdj are doing so to get him canned too but to bring up the hypocrisy. While rdj's career was in shambles, while he did get better and cleaned himself up, he was forgiven. The difference being that people seem to want Gunn to really suffer before they can accept that he's changed, that his actions for the past 6 years are real. People don't need to go through suffering to actually change. Meaningful and honest change can just happen because of someone growing as a person

 

[Samenamenick]

There's a theory that Disney doesn't want to look bad before the Fox merger, what's with them edging the competitor was by betting on their stock prices.

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I see this as the most likely scenario. Right on the cusp of the merger, the last thing they want right now is to make controversial waves in media which could play with the stock price. He's replaceable, why risk it. Bad timing for Gunn, I guess.

 

[Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric]

Shape the fuck up. Take all this energy and anger and point it at Cernovich or whoever the fuck he is. Mobilize, do a public campaign to let the world know how shitty he is.

50 fucking pages of discussion like y'all think this thread is doing anything important in this matter.

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Strong words, which makes me genuinely curious what it is you do day in and day out to feel empowered to tell so many of us how to live, how to react, and how to make a difference. (Not that I consider posting here any type of meaningful social change)

Personally, I've spent the last fifteen year working as a teacher in a low-income district (even when much more affluent districts were just a short commute away) teaching a predominately minority student population and eating copious shit from administration for deigning to actually do something more than focus on meaningless standardized testing. Despite being white, I continuously talk to my students honestly about the state of this country, the systemic racism and sexism that has plagued it, and the the fact that we have never fully lived up to the ideas espoused in our rhetoric, anthems, Constitution or pledge.

I have no idea if my efforts have meant much in the grand scheme of things but at the very least I've put myself out there and tried to make things better.

Have you?

Because if not - if all you are is another anonymous voice on the web chiding other people while personally doing jack shit - then you're easily the biggest hypocrite in here.

This is a DISCUSSION board and frankly, I would posit arguing about the merits of a vocal member of the Left losing his job because some genuine proto-fascists conspired to do so is worth talking about and worth getting angry about. I also think there's considerable merit to discussing the fact that some on the Left are a little too quick to pivot and attack an ally, which is an incredibly relevant topic considering how fragmented the progressive movement in the country currently is.

Your post was grotesquely condescending and infused with an arrogance that suggests you are out there, on the streets, organizing marches and rallies because frankly, anything short of that, you might want to consider toning down the bravado.

 

[Alice]

People don't need to go through suffering to actually change. Meaningful and honest change can just happen because of someone growing as a person

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And this is what pisses me off. Apparently he hasn't suffered enough when this shit and similar things were dug up back in 2012. People seem so hellbent on satisfying their lust for revenge that they're willing to ignore how much work this man has done on himself to be a better person.

Rather throw an ally under the bus for off colour jokes, than accepting that changing by yourself, without being forced to, means a LOT more in actually becoming a different person.

 

[DigitalOp]

Spare me the "my side" dramatics. Please.

The last thing you wanna play is that card with how pathetically weak alot of posters show up for other racial and sexism issues on this board.

You're going mad hard for this guy right now and that's fine, but don't lose the plot.

At the end of the day, Gunn's tweets got him canned. Nobody forced him to post. He posted himself. If he never tweeted, he'd still have a job.

It's Disney and jokes involving pedophilia. It's pretty much common sense it's not gonna fly.

What about the other shitheads Disney employs?! Convenient it's only "whataboutsim" when you compare the situation to Rosanne.

The only thing we have in common with those 2 situations is Disney. The mouse don't like controversy. That's the clear takeaway here.

If Disney did nothing, you'd have a literal shitstorm of AltRight trolls screaming "Disney condones Pedophilia"... It wouldn't even matter these fucks are pedophiles themselves sadly...

Disney wasn't going to play that game.

Again, Nazi shit birds are going tit for tat. They are playing the same game against Progressives so people need to play back.


The irony of all this to me is that this is the same life lesson that gets drilled into alot of black people in the workforce. All my black posters who read this will get flashbacks to momma saying "Don't give them an inch. Don't give them any reason or any issue that they can use against you, because they will"

This is shit we deal with and live with essentially for our liftimes. Having to be damn near perfect so that small insignificant shit can't be weaponized against us. The shit is unfair as hell.

And now y'all have a small example of that to see here.

Y'all got this so mixed up me and subpar spatula actually agree for once.

This is a historic moment in ResetERA history.

 

[Koo]

I really wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt, but your reply seems to be goal post moving at this point, I cant take your responses in good faith at all.

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You asked, I answered. Just like with Chic Fil A, they donated to anti-gay charities for years, I want to see from them donating to LGBT charities in the same amounts before I go there again. Same with Gunn, he makes all these homophobic remarks and jokes about pedophilia and rape, I'd like to see him donate to some of these causes to make right. People say he's reformed and point to him donating to charity, but it's for a rainforest (what I could find at least). That's good, but does nothing to address the comments he's made.

This is to say at least to my satisfaction. People seem to think I don't have a right to be angry with him; but no one decides how I feel about this but me. For me to feel better and support him, this is what I would want to see. Him speaking out about these things and donating to charities related to such.

 

[Alice]

Spare me the "my side" dramatics. Please.

The last thing you wanna play is that card with how pathetically weak alot of posters show up for other racial and sexism issues on this board.

You're going mad hard for this guy right now and that's fine, but don't lose the plot.

Click to shrink...

It's not like your posts ITT haven't been overly dramatic. Pot meet Kettle. I can "play that card" all day long, because up to this very specific case, I've always been on your side and with you when it came to racism ans sexism - And you know that. Again, you were the one pulling the "ya'll supposed to be fighting better battles" - I have, been. (S' a whataboutism by the way, but more on that later.)

At the end of the day, Gunn's tweets got him canned. Nobody forced him to post. He posted himself. If he never tweeted, he'd still have a job.

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Nobody forced him to repent and become a better person. He did that on and by himself. You're ignoring the fuck out of it. Why? Give me a honest answer.

It's Disney and jokes involving pedophilia. It's pretty much common sense it's not gonna fly.

What about the other shitheads Disney employs?! Convenient it's only "whataboutsim" when you compare the situation to Rosanne.

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And yet you've employed your very own whataboutisms.

Tell me, did we take Roseanne down for 10 year old tweets she already caught heat for and apologized several times and then turned around and *never dabbled in racism ever again*, or did we take her down for a VERY RECENT, unapologeptic case of racism?

You know the answer, and you know why it's bullshit. You're arguing in bad faith.

The only thing we have in common with those 2 situations is Disney. The mouse don't like controversy. That's the clear takeaway here.

If Disney did nothing, you'd have a literal shitstorm of AltRight trolls screaming "Disney condones Pedophilia"... It wouldn't even matter these fucks are pedophiles themselves sadly...

Disney wasn't going to play that game.

Again, Nazi shit birds are going tit for tat. They are playing the same game against Progressives so people need to play back.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, I agree with you on this, but why's it okay to ignore all context to damn Gunn for all eternity? You'll notice that THAT attitude is what me and others have been arguing against, not the "condoning" of his firing. We've posters on this very board spread lies about what happened, people say he posted a pedophile video, deleted TEN THOUSAND pedophila tweets. That sort of shit is being thrown around here. Some people are actively helping the Alt-Right spread misinformation because they're too *pissed* at age old tweets to be objective.

I thought we were better than that.

The irony of all this to me is that this is the same life lesson that gets drilled into alot of black people in the workforce. All my black posters who read this will get flashbacks to momma saying "Don't give them an inch. Don't give them any reason or any issue that they can use against you, because they will"

This is shit we deal with and live with essentially for our liftimes. Having to be damn near perfect so that small insignificant shit can't be weaponized against us. The shit is unfair as hell.

And now y'all have a small example of that to see here.

Click to shrink...

And that's a win for you? The "proof" that that sort of "you better watch your back at all times" living is the only way to live? It's a miserable way to live, no one should be forced to live like that. This isn't a "lesson learned" this is a step back in terms of progress, because we all have been fighting so NO ONE needs to live like that anymore.

That's why we're pushing back against this, and why, at least *I* would be pushing back against any comparable cases. Sadly, I completely missed the Arenanet one, because you'd have seen me fighting for the person who was fired too.

 

[DigitalOp]

Strong words, which makes me genuinely curious what it is you do day in and day out to feel empowered to tell so many of us how to live, how to react, and how to make a difference. (Not that I consider posting here any type of meaningful social change)

Personally, I've spent the last fifteen year working as a teacher in a low-income district (even when much more affluent districts were just a short commute away) teaching a predominately minority student population and eating copious shit from administration for deigning to actually do something more than focus on meaningless standardized testing. Despite being white, I continuously talk to my students honestly about the state of this country, the systemic racism and sexism that has plagued it, and the the fact that we have never fully lived up to the ideas espoused in our rhetoric, anthems, Constitution or pledge.

I have no idea if my efforts have meant much in the grand scheme of things but at the very least I've put myself out there and tried to make things better.

Have you?

Because if not - if all you are is another anonymous voice on the web chiding other people while personally doing jack shit - then you're easily the biggest hypocrite in here.

This is a DISCUSSION board and frankly, I would posit arguing about the merits of a vocal member of the Left losing his job because some genuine proto-fascists conspired to do so is worth talking about and worth getting angry about. I also think there's considerable merit to discussing the fact that some on the Left are a little too quick to pivot and attack an ally, which is an incredibly relevant topic considering how fragmented the progressive movement in the country currently is.

Your post was grotesquely condescending and infused with an arrogance that suggests you are out there, on the streets, organizing marches and rallies because frankly, anything short of that, you might want to consider toning down the bravado.

Click to shrink...

The best thing I love about your post is how I got banned for doing the same shit.

The "What are YOU actually doing about it? Argument

I get the ban, and then multiple threads I see posters doing the same thing unscathed.

You asked me what I do.

I do what I can. I'm out here helping those I run into. I'm giving them knowledge help them have better lives. I use my money to get them things they need if they are in a time of hurt. I'm not a teacher but recently I've started volunteering for the midterms because I figured I'd have to put effort before I check the fuck out completely.

I'll give you the same lesson I learned from my ban. You don't know anybody on this board. You don't have any idea what we do on a daily basis.

I hope you actually take pride in your work instead of trying to use it as some white savior authority badge for a message board argument.

I meant what I said where the most effective route is boosting a campaign to target these slimebags.

The same way I'm "empowered" to tell people what my OPINION of the best course of action is, is the same way some of y'all ganged up on posters who suffered from assault trying to tell them their experiences don't matter in the "bigger picture".

Don't lose the plot.

 

[Ferrs]

Holy shit.

You guys have lost your damn minds.

You don't get to police people's opinions or bully them as "tools" or accuse them for being part of the Alt Right just because they don't agree. And before y'all come at me with that shit, no. The fucking AltRight has me as some target for god knows why (fuck y'all for logging my posts btw, hi assholes)

So sorry I ain't a part of them either

Someone has experienced personal pain and assault and that changes people's perspectives on issues.

"This is bigger than your personal pain"

What kind of holier than thou moral liberal type shit is that? Wtf?

Truly spoken as someone who's never been fucking abused or had to deal with some traumatic shit.

You guys are going stircrazy. He's a fucking white male director. His career is far from over. He will be fine. Your damn movie will still be made.

Fucking James Gunn took this news better than y'all right now, he's the one who actually lost something here.

Shape the fuck up. Take all this energy and anger and point it at Cernovich or whoever the fuck he is. Mobilize, do a public campaign to let the world know how shitty he is.

50 fucking pages of discussion like y'all think this thread is doing anything important in this matter.

Click to shrink...

Best post of the thread.

 

[The_Strokes]

Did Cernovich actually did this? Holy shit

 

[Alice]

Did Cernovich actually did this? Holy shit

Click to shrink...

Yeah, we had users fall for that one as recently as ten pages ago...

 

[Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric]

Spare me the "my side" dramatics. Please.

The last thing you wanna play is that card with how pathetically weak alot of posters show up for other racial and sexism issues on this board.

You're going mad hard for this guy right now and that's fine, but don't lose the plot.

At the end of the day, Gunn's tweets got him canned. Nobody forced him to post. He posted himself. If he never tweeted, he'd still have a job.

It's Disney and jokes involving pedophilia. It's pretty much common sense it's not gonna fly.

What about the other shitheads Disney employs?! Convenient it's only "whataboutsim" when you compare the situation to Rosanne.

The only thing we have in common with those 2 situations is Disney. The mouse don't like controversy. That's the clear takeaway here.

If Disney did nothing, you'd have a literal shitstorm of AltRight trolls screaming "Disney condones Pedophilia"... It wouldn't even matter these fucks are pedophiles themselves sadly...

Disney wasn't going to play that game.

Again, Nazi shit birds are going tit for tat. They are playing the same game against Progressives so people need to play back.


The irony of all this to me is that this is the same life lesson that gets drilled into alot of black people in the workforce. All my black posters who read this will get flashbacks to momma saying "Don't give them an inch. Don't give them any reason or any issue that they can use against you, because they will"

This is shit we deal with and live with essentially for our liftimes. Having to be damn near perfect so that small insignificant shit can't be weaponized against us. The shit is unfair as hell.

And now y'all have a small example of that to see here.

Y'all got this so mixed up me and subpar spatula actually agree for once.

This is a historic moment in ResetERA history.

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Firstly, I've seen plenty of people on this board – the majority of them in fact – go to bat for those people being discriminated against. This place tends to skew pretty liberal, otherwise I wouldn't bother posting here.

Regardless, I can't control anyone other than myself directly and my point stands: I've been out there, in the real world, trying to affect change for fifteen years. I don't require a lecture from you on how to properly use my time or expend my energy in relation to social injustice and change.

As to the tweets, Gunn posted them years ago, admitted he was wrong, and has been an advocate for progressivism ever sense. He made a mistake and posted some gross, vulgar jokes that ultimately vanished into the ether and were altogether forgotten. To his credit, instead of deleting them, he didn't run from his mistake and because of that, some alt-right shitbag used that sincerity against him and got him kicked off a lucrative directing gig.

It's bullshit, plain and simple. Not only is it ridiculous to equate a joke in bad taste with a genuine advocacy of pedophilia, it's ridiculous to think that dumb tweets made seven years ago can derail the career of somebody who has demonstrated that he is very much the kind of person we want within our society.

Gunn is an inclusive director, something Hollywood needs plenty of.

As for your pedantic attempt to tie this into systemic racism and cite this as a learning moment for us liberal whites, don't bother. This issue isn't about ethnicity or racism and it has absolutely nothing to do with the very real and persistent struggle of African Americans and people of color must engage in daily but rather the issue is how a good, progressive man was felled by the machinations of a Neo Nazi and why some on the Left think it's okay that it happened.

That's the narrative I'm going to continue focusing on because that's the issue I consider paramount.

 

[DigitalOp]

It's not like your posts ITT haven't been overly dramatic. Pot meet Kettle. I can "play that card" all day long, because up to this very specific case, I've always been on your side and with you when it came to racism ans sexism - And you know that. Again, you were the one pulling the "ya'll supposed to be fighting better battles" - I have, been. (S' a whataboutism by the way, but more on that later.)



Nobody forced him to repent and become a better person. He did that on and by himself. You're ignoring the fuck out of it. Why? Give me a honest answer.



And yet you've employed your very own whataboutisms.

Tell me, did we take Roseanne down for 10 year old tweets she already caught heat for and apologized several times and then turned around and *never dabbled in racism ever again*, or did we take her down for a VERY RECENT, unapologeptic case of racism?

You know the answer, and you know why it's bullshit. You're arguing in bad faith.



Yeah, I agree with you on this, but why's it okay to ignore all context to damn Gunn for all eternity? You'll notice that THAT attitude is what me and others have been arguing against, not the "condoning" of his firing. We've posters on this very board spread lies about what happened, people say he posted a pedophile video, deleted TEN THOUSAND pedophila tweets. That sort of shit is being thrown around here. Some people are actively helping the Alt-Right spread misinformation because they're too *pissed* at age old tweets to be objective.

I thought we were better than that.



And that's a win for you? The "proof" that that sort of "you better watch your back at all times" living is the only way to live? It's a miserable way to live, no one should be forced to live like that. This isn't a "lesson learned" this is a step back in terms of progress, because we all have been fighting so NO ONE needs to live like that anymore.

That's why we're pushing back against this, and why, at least *I* would be pushing back against any comparable cases. Sadly, I completely missed the Arenanet one, because you'd have seen me fighting for the person who was fired too.

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I never ignored the context behind this situation.

I've posted multiple times before that I believe Gunn changed and is a better person.

What I'm saying is that this is a hard knock lesson if I ever seen one.

Yes, this was an AltRight plot. Yes, it was an Op done in completely bad faith.

But ultimately the causality is Gunn's prior actions. Again, we wouldn't be here if the tweets didn't exist.

It's combination of alot of things. The main one being the closer for the Fox merger. That's pretty much the real factor in why this happened so fast.

I don't think Gunn is coming back. The Nazis won this battle. Gunn isn't switching sides. He will be fine.

I think people need to take this as a wake up call and realize the rules of engagement aren't equal by no means. We can bitch moan and complain about something we ALREADY know. We already know this!

Or we can shape up, take care of our own, and fight even harder. There should be full internet wide campaigns on all these AltRight scumbags...

We can obviously tell that hatred is a better motivation for mobilizing than outrage

 

[Sheev]

Holy shit.

You guys have lost your damn minds.

You don't get to police people's opinions or bully them as "tools" or accuse them for being part of the Alt Right just because they don't agree. And before y'all come at me with that shit, no. The fucking AltRight has me as some target for god knows why (fuck y'all for logging my posts btw, hi assholes)

So sorry I ain't a part of them either

Someone has experienced personal pain and assault and that changes people's perspectives on issues.

"This is bigger than your personal pain"

What kind of holier than thou moral liberal type shit is that? Wtf?

Truly spoken as someone who's never been fucking abused or had to deal with some traumatic shit.

You guys are going stircrazy. He's a fucking white male director. His career is far from over. He will be fine. Your damn movie will still be made.

Fucking James Gunn took this news better than y'all right now, he's the one who actually lost something here.

Shape the fuck up. Take all this energy and anger and point it at Cernovich or whoever the fuck he is. Mobilize, do a public campaign to let the world know how shitty he is.

50 fucking pages of discussion like y'all think this thread is doing anything important in this matter.

Click to shrink...

Best post of the thread so far. Stop attacking victims and start going after the actual problem instead.

 

[Alice]

I never ignored the context behind this situation.

I've posted multiple times before that I believe Gunn changed and is a better person.

What I'm saying is that this is a hard knock lesson if I ever seen one.

Yes, this was an AltRight plot. Yes, it was an Op done in completely bad faith.

But ultimately the causality is Gunn's prior actions. Again, we wouldn't be here if the tweets didn't exist.

It's combination of alot of things. The main one being the closer for the Fox merger. That's pretty much the real factor in why this happened so fast.

I don't think Gunn is coming back. The Nazis won this battle. Gunn isn't switching sides. He will be fine.

I think people need to take this as a wake up call and realize the rules of engagement aren't equal by no means. We can bitch moan and complain about something we ALREADY know. We already know this!

Or we can shape up, take care of our own, and fight even harder. There should be full internet wide campaigns on all these AltRight scumbags...

We can obviously tell that hatred is a better motivation for mobilizing than outrage

Click to shrink...

See, I agree with you for most of it. He got bit in the ass by his own history. But he only got bit, because he believed that he'd more than proven that he's not that kind of person anymore, and I genuinely think so too. This is like sacking an ex convict for shit he's already more than moved past with, and it's a real problem in our society, one that needs to go the fuck away.

I don't think he'll be back either, thinking they'd hire him back is delusional. I'm not sure how much I want to believe in "they wanted rid of him anyway", since he was gonna be a key figure in the MCU onwards.

As for fighting back, yeah, I agree. We need to rethink our approach, and for one, need to be a lot stronger than to just fight based on morals, morals can and will be used against us, and their efforts are way, way more organized than ours. For what it's worth, if anything, I see Gunn hitting the Nazis even harder now, that he doesn't have to hold back for Disney anymore. Maybe we've seen an ally being empowered.

It still sucks, to see so many people so readily believe faked and out of context shit in the name of being pissed. We can't fall for that sort of shit.

 

[Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric]

I'll give you the same lesson I learned from my ban. You don't know anybody on this board. You don't have any idea what we do on a daily basis.

I hope you actually take pride in your work instead of trying to use it as some white savior authority badge for a message board argument.

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You should take your own advice given the contents of your earlier post, which is precisely all about you making assumptions about other people, most of whom you don't know a thing about.

As to your infantile rhetorical inquiry about my pride as a teacher, I can only laugh given the challenges of the job and how easy it would be for me to move to a different district and save myself plenty of grief.

 

[DigitalOp]

You should take your own advice given the contents of your earlier post, which is precisely all about you making assumptions about other people, most of whom you don't know a thing about.

As to your infantile rhetorical inquiry about my pride as a teacher, I can only laugh given the challenges of the job and how easy it would be for me to move to a different district and save myself plenty of grief.

Click to shrink...

Everything I mentioned is based off posts Ive seen in this thread and others, and I'm comparing the reactions. I don't have to assume shit, I'm going off what I read.

You're the one who quoted me and tried to pull your pants up as if it's impossible to write a post on a smartphone... Like I sit in front of a computer all day....

Call it what you want man, your main argument of your post was "what do you do?, I do this"

Don't be mad now. Im not really into people who talk like theyre looking for pats on the back.

 

[Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric]

Everything I mentioned is based off posts Ive seen in this thread and others, and I'm comparing the reactions. I don't have to assume shit, I'm going off what I read.

You're the one who quoted me and tried to pull your pants up as if it's impossible to write a post on a smartphone... Like I sit in front of a computer all day....

Call it what you want man, your main argument of your post was "what do you do?, I do this"

Don't be mad now. Im not really into people who talk like theyre looking for pats on the back.

Click to shrink...

Again, I responded to your arrogant and condescending post that seemed aimed at anyone and everyone pissed that a Nazi took down a progressive director because your comments suggested that we were wasting our time discussing the matter when we should be doing more.

You invited my post because yours was a tacit challenge to anyone who disagreed with you.

If you want to back-peddle now or keep attempting to obfuscate your bloviations with your tired, edgy rhetoric, be my guest. I don't give a shit if you respect me and if you think I was looking for any type of gratification or congratulatory accolades, you're gravely mistaken. The only reason I brought up my background was to demonstrate how entirely off the mark you were in assuming those of us in here discussing Gunn's firing aren't also out there in the real world affecting change.

Again, take your own advice.

Also, with respect, I'm not going to tie up this thread anymore with our back and forth.

I've said my piece and I'm done.

 

[Mix Master]

Live by the twitter, die by the twitter

 

[Buckle]

Read Sean Gunn's thoughts on the matter. Just made me feel worse..

Sounds like working in the MCU and getting those opportunities did a lot for James personally, heres to hoping he can bounce back from this.

 

[Deleted member 18095]

And I see people supposedly on "my side" willingly and openly *ignoring* the Alt-Right involvement, because they would rather be pissed at Gunn and have their twisted sense of "revenge" fulfilled.

I've been with Antifa for longer than a good portion of posters on this board have been alive, I don't need someone telling me to "waste my energy elsewhere", when this is fucking part of the same damn fight I've always been fighting.

You're out of your mind for ignoring the Nazis who started all this fucking shit.



Yeah, I really don't like this "Throw RDJ in front of the bus" angle either, just like Gunn, RDJ has had a huge comeback from his shithead days. He's redeemed himself just as much.

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You got it wrong, alice. People pissed with Gunn are paranoid imo. That's what I meant.

 

[TyrantGuardian]

Strong words, which makes me genuinely curious what it is you do day in and day out to feel empowered to tell so many of us how to live, how to react, and how to make a difference. (Not that I consider posting here any type of meaningful social change)

Personally, I've spent the last fifteen year working as a teacher in a low-income district (even when much more affluent districts were just a short commute away) teaching a predominately minority student population and eating copious shit from administration for deigning to actually do something more than focus on meaningless standardized testing. Despite being white, I continuously talk to my students honestly about the state of this country, the systemic racism and sexism that has plagued it, and the the fact that we have never fully lived up to the ideas espoused in our rhetoric, anthems, Constitution or pledge.

I have no idea if my efforts have meant much in the grand scheme of things but at the very least I've put myself out there and tried to make things better.

Have you?

Because if not - if all you are is another anonymous voice on the web chiding other people while personally doing jack shit - then you're easily the biggest hypocrite in here.

This is a DISCUSSION board and frankly, I would posit arguing about the merits of a vocal member of the Left losing his job because some genuine proto-fascists conspired to do so is worth talking about and worth getting angry about. I also think there's considerable merit to discussing the fact that some on the Left are a little too quick to pivot and attack an ally, which is an incredibly relevant topic considering how fragmented the progressive movement in the country currently is.

Your post was grotesquely condescending and infused with an arrogance that suggests you are out there, on the streets, organizing marches and rallies because frankly, anything short of that, you might want to consider toning down the bravado.

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This is seriously rich. You're calling other people arrogant by assuming they have to be activists that live up to your own standards (irrespective of their actual situation, which is incredibly ableist at the very least) because apparently you are good enough. I don't want to take away from your achievements but you doing a lot of good stuff does NOT mean you get to tell other people to shut up or police their tone. Have some humility.

This thread is probably an alt-right dream come true. We have genuine activists who do good work all over the world bickering about a fucking celebrity rather than (intellectually) going after the people who staged this attack. That honestly tells me that people care more about a good look than actually doing something to stop it (hint: pressuring Disney probably won't do much in this case because they don't ever want the words "pedo" and "Disney" to appear within the same area code no matter the reason).

It also tells me that people get a pass (I've had people ITT tell me "there are no victims here" as if we're back to square one where words apparently can't damage anyone) as long as they learn and apologize. I disagree. I think we should acknowledge and praise their apology, especially when they've put their words into action and shown further support to the people they harmed, but they shouldn't ever be in a position to demand a pass from anyone. I sure wouldn't. Note that I think it's perfectly fine and reasonable if some people are OK with him after his apology and actions. Great, good for you. Don't try to force the rest of us to agree with you and act like we're insane if we don't. That's bullshit.

I will say that I don't mind this debate at all because there's clearly a divide in terms of how quick we are to forgive people who do the things we're working to get rid of if they later end up being on "our side" (whatever that means) that needs to be talked about and sorted through, if there could ever be some form of consensus on this, but I also think that defending celebrities should never ever in any universe be a priority over supporting and providing a welcoming safe space for people for whom these jokes are fucking not a joke at all. Think about what signal it sends when you are more worried about defending someone at any cost over actually showing support for the people they are harming, even if both of those are the targets of the same fascists. We should be united in exposing and taking down disgusting rapists like Cernovich so this type of shit doesn't keep happening instead of deriding people for not wanting to sing the praises of a guy that made disgusting fucking rape jokes, no matter when he did it.

There has to be a sense of priority and a movie director honestly never deserves to be on top of that list.

I can only laugh given the challenges of the job and how easy it would be for me to move to a different district and save myself plenty of grief.

Click to shrink...

Jesus, dude...

I've been with Antifa for longer than a good portion of posters on this board have been alive, I don't need someone telling me to "waste my energy elsewhere", when this is fucking part of the same damn fight I've always been fighting.

You're out of your mind for ignoring the Nazis who started all this fucking shit.

Click to shrink...

I mean, anyone who is ignoring the nazi aspect of this situation is clearly out of their god damn minds. I haven't read all of the posts in this huge thread but are there actually people doing that? There is no question as to whether or not this is an active attack by nazis acting in bad faith. We all (hopefully) know this. There are plenty of us who are also vehemently anti-fascist in a plethora of ways, wherever we live, and that's great.

I still don't see the point in automatically assuming that everyone needs to agree to give Gunn a pass in this situation. I don't like what he did regardless of apologies, I'm glad he's gone out of his way to improve the lives of people he may have hurt afterward and I am hoping that he finds other opportunities to keep doing what he's doing to that end. I don't get why my personal priority should be to forgive and forget in his case specifically rather than channel that anger toward crushing fascists and making sure these nazi shitbags face the same (and worse) consequences for their past (and certainly present) actions.

Can we at least all agree that that is a reasonable stance for some people to take even if you personally would rather defend Gunn, which is fine?

 

[Fudgepuppy]

The people arguing for the side of firing him, seem to have a major chip on their shoulder.

Based on some of the posts here in this thread, I absolutely don't blame them for not finding his blue material acceptable in any capacity, or for having the chip.

But I also believe that the discussion can't anymore be done in good faith. It's as if the the murder victim's mother was on the jury.

 

[Shazz]

Ummm is this thread still about James Gunn being fired???

 

[PhilosopherDirtBike]

This whole idiotic saga has reached the point where the alt right loonies are just digging through celebrities' old tweets to find mentions of pizza to connect them to pizzagate. They're freaking out over a Michael Ian Black tweet that just says "Tinder but for pizza". We live in such a dumb world.

 

[Thunder]

Ummm is this thread still about James Gunn being fired???

Click to shrink...

Its evolved past that .. the status-quo is he should not have been fired as he apologised for his tweets years ago , and how its part of an alt-right agenda to dismantle liberals and those that speak out against Trump. There's another thread that is in line with a petition to have Disney re-hire him.

 

[Metto]

Can we at least all agree that that is a reasonable stance for some people to take even if you personally would rather defend Gunn, which is fine?

Click to shrink...

Well the main reason why so many people are standing by him is because of Cernovich and the Alt Right's involvement. If Disney just fired him out of the blue and gave no context while people would still be upset there would not be nearly as much support for him to come back to the project.

So saying that we should try to fight against Cernovich and the Alt Right but saying that this battle is off limits is stupid when the only reason why this is even a story to begin with is because of them and we want Disney to reverse it so Cernovich can eat shit and get his agenda out there. Granted if Disney brought him back it wouldn't be to say Fuck the Alt Right but the left will see it as a victory because we took theirs by mobilizing against their agenda.

 

[Suiko]

Everything I mentioned is based off posts Ive seen in this thread and others, and I'm comparing the reactions. I don't have to assume shit, I'm going off what I read.

You're the one who quoted me and tried to pull your pants up as if it's impossible to write a post on a smartphone... Like I sit in front of a computer all day....

Call it what you want man, your main argument of your post was "what do you do?, I do this"

Don't be mad now. Im not really into people who talk like theyre looking for pats on the back.

Click to shrink...

Pro Tip: Paragraphs are more than one sentence. Ironically, that statement is less arrogant than you have been in this thread.

 

[DigitalOp]

Pro Tip: Paragraphs are more than one sentence. Ironically, that statement is less arrogant than you have been in this thread.

Click to shrink...

What's your point?

 

[Clix]

I don't even know who Anthony Jesselnik is. I actually don't give a shit what expectation it sets. It should set the expectation that joking about rape in that way is not fucking OK and should be follow by consequences. I also think that Cernovich is a fucking rapist who should be locked up with the key tossed away. I certainly don't think the same should happen to Gunn over this, that would be absurd.

"There are no victims here" is bullshit. Of course there are. It normalizes incredibly harmful sexist views and values which propagates throughout society and, whether Gunn intended it or not (I don't think he did), leads to systemic issues that other people are dealing with in a very real way. If you want to accept him doing that and his apology being enough, that's your prerogative and you're perfectly welcome to do that. I won't even criticize you over it to be honest. But I have no sympathy for him beyond him being a target of fascists which is incredibly regrettable but should be dealt with in several other, more effective ways than apologizing for his behavior IMO.



Of course I care about him growing as a person, good on him. I just don't care about him keeping this job when the people around him don't feel comfortable being associated with his past actions. Do you apply this logic to every alt-right person who comes out and apologizes? I sure as fuck don't, why should I apply it here? (Aside from the implication and precedent this sets in legitimizing fascists, which I will concede is a perfectly valid point.)



Yes. I don't care. I would personally not want to be associated with him until he passes my personal threshold of making up for it, which he hasn't. That's my call.



No, the defeatist point of view is assuming that the only reason people change is because they except to be forgiven by everyone else. I don't even think Gunn himself would agree with you on that point.

If I did a fucked up thing and apologized for it, I would be doing it for my own inner self, not to have some apologist pseudo-sycophants praise me for it. What the hell kind of attitude is that and what exactly does it imply if that WAS the only reason people ever changed their mind on things? Being ashamed is a good starting point. It does not come with an expectation that others will automatically hand-wave your problematic actions away.

Click to shrink...

Personal threshold? Really? Wow. This place is something else sometimes.

My own take. I wouldn't have apologized for crass or gross jokes. Everyone knew who Gunn was and his type of humor and movies as it launched his career. And there is nothing wrong with that. He wanted to go mainstream and do work beyond the fare he is known for and changed as a person during the process.

He did nothing wrong.

 

[TyrantGuardian]

Well the main reason why so many people are standing by him is because of Cernovich and the Alt Right's involvement. If Disney just fired him out of the blue and gave no context while people would still be upset there would not be nearly as much support for him to come back to the project.

So saying that we should try to fight against Cernovich and the Alt Right but saying that this battle is off limits is stupid when the only reason why this is even a story to begin with is because of them and we want Disney to reverse it so Cernovich can eat shit and get his agenda out there. Granted if Disney brought him back it wouldn't be to say Fuck the Alt Right but the left will see it as a victory because we took theirs by mobilizing against their agenda.

Click to shrink...

I'm not saying this battle is off-limits. I get the feeling that some people ITT feel like saying you're not OK with Gunn's statements is.