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Oct 25, 2017
13,246
A study, conducted by EA's Global Consumer Insights team, was published recently that aimed to analyze what inclusion means to players. It is a great study, with a lot of interesting takeaways, but I suspect for many the conclusions are confirmations of what they already knew. And that is: diversity and inclusion in videogames matters. And it matters to the large part of the gaming base.

The study can be found here: https://medium.com/@Electronic_Arts/what-inclusion-means-to-players-db4522bdd8a0

To surmise some of the big takeaways: the vast majority of gamers are completely fine with a push for more diversity and inclusion in gaming, and a large portion of the gaming audience is more likely to play games that have inclusive content and/or features. On the other hand, a minority of gamers finds diversity and inclusion in games unimportant, and an even smaller minority indicates that they are less likely to play games featuring inclusive content and/or features.

Also included were some examples of inclusion that some gamers found notable and important:
0*08gj0QOHCSAxDg5i


I found these examples to be quite heartwarming. Some of the examples are things I might go by in a game without even giving them a second thought, and yet are quite important for other gamers. And thinking about it now, it is very clear why. And these gamers are not alone. There are so many moments, features or things relating to games being more inclusive that have a positive impact on players but simply aren't discussed enough and so, are in a way lost to those that didn't have a similar experience or relate in a similar fashion. My hope is that by sharing examples in this thread, we can highlight the importance of diversity and inclusion, both to each other and the industry at large.

Purpose:
While this thread is largely geared towards personal stories and experiences, sharing stories of the experiences of others, either through personal knowledge or just something that caught your eye on the internet, is encouraged as well. The purpose of the thread is to show just how important diversity and inclusion can be to gamers, to show how things that might seem small or insignificant to one gamer might have such a huge impact on another, and to make a continuing case for more and further diversity and inclusion in videogames. Whether it is something you consider big or small, I hope you share and talk about it. Because that personal impact matters. In fact, many of the examples I can think of personally are things that might very well be considered "small" to others, and yet their importance is not diluted, and their impact not lessened on me.

Another goal of this thread is to serve as a general topic for discussing issues relating to diversity and inclusion, especially concerning issues and topics that might not be discussed in other threads or have threads be made about them. We want to highlight and put an emphasis on the positive examples but also talk about the negative ones and everything in between. This can range from things that maybe bugged you but that you don't really see anybody talking about to questions you might have about certain issues.

Examples:
And so, I would like to start off the thread by highlighting two personal examples of my own. These may or may not be shared by others, but they are incredibly important to me and are the examples that immediately spring to mind when I think about inclusion in gaming.

The first relates to Prince of Persia (1989). As a Pakistani, most of my gaming experiences were years delayed compared to a lot of other countries as we got consoles significantly late. I recall having originally gotten a SNES long after the PS1 had launched in the majority of the world, but it still formed a massive part of my childhood. And yet, despite the SNES taking most of my gaming time as a child in Pakistan, my most memorable gaming memories stem from Prince of Persia, which I had played on a PC via some floppy disks at the time (or maybe it was preinstalled, I can't remember). While the SNES featured titles I enjoyed greatly and which I look back on fondly, Prince of Persia was the title I associated with so much more deeply. Here came a game whose title immediately stood out to me and my family. We knew Iranians, people who considered themselves Persians, and that immediately made it a far more relatable game. But even more than that, it featured characters that I associated and likened myself to far more than any other game at the time. I understood, even as a child, that while the characters were not Pakistani, they were far more similar to me than most I found in gaming. And to this day, the original Prince of Persia, its sequels and the 3D successor are the only games me, my brother, dad and mom have played together. And I think it honestly came down to the name. In the sea of titles back in those generations, having Persia in the name immediately stood out and piqued our curiosity.

Another example I have relates to Dota 2, but not something in the game, but rather relating to its eports scene. I've played Dota 2 for a bit, a tough game that I stopped playing after a while but enjoyed enough to check out its competitive scene. While I don't watch most of the tournaments that take place, I do tune into the International every year (the biggest tournament for Dota 2) and while I've always had multiple favorites as far as teams go, the most I have ever been excited for has been when Evil Geniuses, a top Dota 2 team, featured both Sumail and Universe on its roster, players of Pakistani and Indian origin respectively. Having two players, playing a game at a top level, for millions of dollars, who looked like me? How could I not tune in and root for them and their team? Those tournaments have probably been the most I've been invested in any esport, and having them win the International 2015 was an incredible highlight for me.

--

I hope I made this extensive enough to warrant good discussion without steering the conversation in any particular way. If there is something you would like to see added or corrected in the OP, please let me know.

Without further ado, please share and discuss away.

[I want to emphasize that this thread is geared towards everyone regardless of sex, gender identity, ethnicity, race, religion, disability or sexual orientation. I encourage everyone to share examples and experiences. If not yours, maybe someone's you know, or a story you are familiar with. Or maybe you simply want to discuss the issues, and that is fine too.]

Credits:
Biestmann for helping me out!
rras1994 for linking to the study.
Why Women Criticize Sexualized Designs for being a great thread, faciliating excellent discussion on a variety of issues.
 

Dirtyshubb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,555
UK
Being a straight, white, cis male I have never had to worry about inclusiveness from a personal perspective but the more we get the better the industry will be.
 

Mezoly

Jimbo Replacement
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,401
Great OT!

Prince of Persia and the first AC game will always hold a special place for me because they are one of the few games where my people don't get painted as the villains to be shot at in an FPS.
 

Rogote

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,606
It was a weird moment for me in Wolfenstein: New Colossus when I found a side character in the game's hub area that was indeed a finnish woman, with the accent and everything. Very extremely stereotypical finnish character, caricature even. But it was the first and ONLY finnish character I have seen in a game I've played in all my life. That was nice. My gratitude for my swedish neighbors at machine games for doing that nice little nod.
 

DMVfan123

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,361
Virginia
Movies and TV have steadily become more inclusive, and have had success to boot (see: Captain Marvel and Black Panther, the only two solo MCU movies to gross a billion) and video games should take their example
As for examples: as a black 19 year old male, the characters that I have best been able to relate to are:
Max from Life is Strange
Marcus from Watch Dogs 2
Franklin from GTAV
 

vestan

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Dec 28, 2017
24,635
This isn't really an experience or anything, but as a black dude, seeing actual positive representation of black characters in games is a great thing (as long as it isn't some tokenistic trash, anyways). I'd say my absolute favourite is Garcian Smith from Killer7. I just love this suave motherfucker.

tumblr_nz8b3b1DZ31skasmxo2_r1_400.gif


tumblr_pnwskpXKOw1qjztgpo1_400.gif


latest


A recent favourite is Bayek from Assassin's Creed: Origins

Evil Geniuses, a top Dota 2 team, featured both Sumail and Universe on its roster, players of Pakistani and Indian origin respectively. Having two players, playing a game at a top level, for millions of dollars, who looked like me? How could I not tune in and root for them and their team? Those tournaments have probably been the most I've been invested in any esport, and having them win the International 2015 was an incredible highlight for me.
I'm not Pakistani, but I remember when Sumail first joined EG. Being really young and in a scene that's pretty much dominated by white European dudes in the west, it was a sight for sore eyes. I remember how he carried EG at DAC, his Storm Spirit is fucking amazing.
 
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stinkyguy666

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,147
I don't know if this really counts, because I'm talking about a TV show here, but Ash and Brock from Pokémon having darker skin tones really stuck out to me when I was a kid. Maybe I was just projecting myself onto the characters but it was so rare to see a character like Ash that actually looked almost exactly like me as a kid. That meant a lot.

Screen_Shot_2019_02_28_at_6.16.07_PM.png


I know Ash's skin tone isn't exactly consistent. Sometimes he's shown to have dark olive skin, other times he's very pale lol. That's why I think I may have been projecting a little as a kid.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,212
Greater Vancouver
I mean I still get 'wowed' when I see a brown character in a game that a) gets to be cool and fleshed out, and b) is more than an interchangeable side character or token minority friend

As it happens, I don't get to say 'wow' very often. Bayak and Rashid are the first in a long fucking time. The OVerwatch characters too.
 
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chobel

Attempting to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,493
I remember when I started playing GTA:SA and the main character was black, I legit didn't believe it, I was thinking I'll get MGS2'D any moments now.

It was so big deal for me then that I was playing a main black character who is not just another generic guy with black skin texture.
 

Deleted member 3815

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,633
It's not just characters that needs to be diverse but the video game industry needs to stop hiring white actors to play and mo-cop PoC characters, which is why I don't accept Nadine and Chloe from the Uncharted series as a PoC character as they are written, voice and acted by white folks. They are not written from a mindset of someone of their race.

Another things that needs to be fixed within the video game industry is that to me it feels that it's heavily a white man worlds with so few PoC and women helming the director seat. You will get more interesting story and you will challenge the idea that white man is the norm.
 

Biestmann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,413
I was super happy when Primethius decided to pick up the thread, and of course am to finally see it posted! I hope this can become a place that fosters discussion on this topic and can serve as an inspiration for developers. Being a straight, white cis male, I want to grow my own perspective on this topic as well, meaning I'll be a regular reading people's contributions here. Thank you so much for your hard work again, Primethius!
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,381
Thanks for making this thread, that other "minorities should be happy with what little representation they get" thread from earlier was not good.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,381
Houston, TX

Driggonny

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,170
Ya know, I don't think I've ever played a game and had a moment where I saw a character making me feel included. It's fine, I'm pretty sure those games are out there and I just haven't seen them. I don't go out of my way for it, anyway. I'm genuinely just happy to see others have positive stories
 

Hey Please

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
22,824
Not America
Aside from the obvious racial,sexual and gender diversities that more games are embracing to the dismay of vocal minority on reddit, twitter, YT etc, I would like to specifically thank SoulsBorne games and now Sekiro for featuring smaller stature character, which in all fairness might not be for the sake of representation but rather gameplay. Still intent vs impact being a thing, this felt relevant.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,381
Houston, TX
Since I feel like we can get a good discussion going here, I'm curious as to your thoughts on a few things related to Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.
  • How do you feel about Sakurai's approach to the roster with regards to representation?
    • Do you think Sakurai is right to decide the roster so far ahead of time?
    • Do you believe Sakurai's stance on new IPs (wait until they're proven to be successful) is a good or bad call in relation to representation?
      • The likes of ARMS & Dragalia Lost would be prime examples of games impacted by this.
    • Do you think the amount of representation (or lack thereof) in Smash is because of Sakurai or Nintendo?
  • Do you think there will be a noticeable change one way or the other with Nintendo choosing the post-Piranha Plant DLC characters?
  • How you do you want Smash to proceed going forward
    • Example: Do you want Nintendo to take control of roster selection going forward?
  • Do you agree with Sakurai's protagonists-first mentality in relation to potential representation?
 
Last edited:
Oct 26, 2017
8,055
Appalachia
Great idea to make an OT about this! I'm a white guy who generally leans heterosexual so I do tend to overlook a lot of these little moments that resonate with others. It's nice to see a topic where people can discuss them without it being framed as a "is inclusion really important?" debate.
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
I personally haven't seen a lot of characters with ASD in games. The only one I can think of is Josh from Watch Dogs 2. He doesn't exactly mirror my experience, but I could see a few small bits of myself and other autistic people I've met in him.

Edit: just remembered David Archer from Mass Effect 2's Overlord DLC and 3. I've met one autistic guy that's similar to him in terms of behavior.
 
OP
OP
Oct 25, 2017
13,246
Some great examples already. Thanks for chiming in!

It was a weird moment for me in Wolfenstein: New Colossus when I found a side character in the game's hub area that was indeed a finnish woman, with the accent and everything. Very extremely stereotypical finnish character, caricature even. But it was the first and ONLY finnish character I have seen in a game I've played in all my life. That was nice. My gratitude for my swedish neighbors at machine games for doing that nice little nod.

I think this is a great example of what I was trying to hit with the OT. Something like this I would have never realized, but it does make me appreciate the game to the extent that they attempted a Finnish character while illuminating me to the characters stereotypical nature.

A recent favourite is Bayek from Assassin's Creed: Origins

I really like Bayek (of Siwa. Gotta say that, feel like it's ingrained in me after the game). Especially his hair + beard combo.

First off, you got yourself a sub.

Second, can I take the time to sing ARMS's praises with regards to the representation in the game? As far as black/brown characters go, Twintelle & Misango (I was a bit hesitant to count Misango, but others have convinced me to) both have great designs, moveset concepts, & are overall great characters. This is especially true for Twintelle, who recently made it to the semi-finals of the Party Crash Bash Tournament.

I really like most of the designs in ARMS, albeit my experience is limited to the beta. More on this below.

Since I feel like we can get a good discussion going here, I'm curious as to your thoughts on a few things related to Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.
  • How do you feel about Sakurai's approach to the roster with regards to representation?
    • Do you think Sakurai is right to decide the roster so far ahead of time?
    • Do you believe Sakurai's stance on new IPs (wait until they're proven to be successful) is a good or bad call in relation to representation?
      • The likes of ARMS & Dragalia Lost would be prime examples of games impacted by this.
    • Do you think the amount of representation (or lack thereof) in Smash is because of Sakurai or Nintendo?
  • Do you think there will be a noticeable change one way or the other with Nintendo choosing the post-Piranha Plant DLC characters?
  • How you do you want Smash to proceed going forward
    • Example: Do you want Nintendo to take control of roster selection going forward?

Generally, with Smash, my view is the following. First, I acknowledge that Nintendo doesn't have a wide variety of legacy characters that can count towards representation. And so it can be tough to be inclusive when you simply don't have a lot to draw from. Your hands are tied in a manner of speaking.

However, I think where it becomes an issue for me is the sheer number of Fire Emblem characters in the game. Fire Emblem is a series that probably has one of Nintendos more diverse lineups, and there are several characters they could pick that would be really welcome. A chatacter that has always been a personal favorite of mine is Jaffar. And I would have loved someone like him over some of the clones.

I'm not sure if it's a Sakurai decision or a Nintendo decision, but when you have 70+ characters, including third party ones, I think there needs to be a more cognizant effort towards inclusiveness. In a series like Smash, where so many relatively unknown characters often get picked, they definitely could have picked someone to add diversity to the roster. I'm hoping with the DLC that this is rectified a bit, especially if the DLC roster is third party focused.
 

Deleted member 50949

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Dec 16, 2018
489
Great thread OP, want to share Indivisible since it's entire cast are diverse and are from multitude of regions and mythologies. Helps that the game looks and plays great.


DomZkZFX4AA1N74.jpg

 

TimeFire

Avenger
Nov 26, 2017
9,625
Brazil
I remember my disapointment when the only brazilian character that I ever saw as a kid on a videogame was Blanka, a giant green eletric monster that lived in the jungle.

We've come far and have some pretty badass brazilians nowadays, primarly from fighting games, but I'll never forget that.

I was so sad! So that's what americans (I also thought Street Fighter was american) thought of brazilians?!

Great thread, btw. Subbed.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,381
Houston, TX
I really like most of the designs in ARMS, albeit my experience is limited to the beta. More on this below.



Generally, with Smash, my view is the following. First, I acknowledge that Nintendo doesn't have a wide variety of legacy characters that can count towards representation. And so it can be tough to be inclusive when you simply don't have a lot to draw from. Your hands are tied in a manner of speaking.

However, I think where it becomes an issue for me is the sheer number of Fire Emblem characters in the game. Fire Emblem is a series that probably has one of Nintendos more diverse lineups, and there are several characters they could pick that would be really welcome. A chatacter that has always been a personal favorite of mine is Jaffar. And I would have loved someone like him over some of the clones.

I'm not sure if it's a Sakurai decision or a Nintendo decision, but when you have 70+ characters, including third party ones, I think there needs to be a more cognizant effort towards inclusiveness. In a series like Smash, where so many relatively unknown characters often get picked, they definitely could have picked someone to add diversity to the roster. I'm hoping with the DLC that this is rectified a bit, especially if the DLC roster is third party focused.
Prior to the Fighters Pass, all roster decisions were made by Sakurai. But as of the Fighters Pass, Nintendo took control of character selection. Likewise, echo fighters took up next to no time to make & didn't take away from any unique newcomers. Though I'm curious as to if you agree with Sakurai's decision to hold off on newer franchises like ARMS & Dragalia Lost until they became proven successes (despite their potential to add representation), even though it ultimately cost the former its shot at getting in Ultimate at all?

Also, do you agree with Sakurai's protagonist-first mentality?
 

FallenGrace

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,036
As a different perspective here, I am a white straight male, I don't want to play that in a game, it's not about self representation for me, it's everywhere, the last thing I want is to be a straight white guy in a game, I want to experience different things, I love playing as female characters especially and to have that option and to have them done right means a surprising amount to me. Playing as Alloy, Billie Lurk, Chloe from Uncharted etc have been some of the highlights from this gen for me and I hope it continues to push change, diversity and inclusion in gaming.
 

MDSVeritas

Gameplay Programmer, Sony Santa Monica
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,026
Glad to see a thread like this, going into the very human element of what it means to see people like you in media is super important.

Personally I really really wish we get to a point where a major game release has a bi or gay man as its protagonist. Hell even a deuteragonist. It's an area where games were never particularly helpful (and at times outright harmful) in my own experiences coming to terms with sexuality and I would love to see that change.
 
OP
OP
Oct 25, 2017
13,246
Prior to the Fighters Pass, all roster decisions were made by Sakurai. But as of the Fighters Pass, Nintendo took control of character selection. Likewise, echo fighters took up next to no time to make & didn't take away from any unique newcomers. Though I'm curious as to if you agree with Sakurai's decision to hold off on newer franchises like ARMS & Dragalia Lost until they became proven successes (despite their potential to add representation), even though it ultimately cost the former its shot at getting in Ultimate at all?

Also, do you agree with Sakurai's protagonist-first mentality?

I think asking a series to be proven first is a bit strange, just because so many of the characters that I love in Smash don't exactly come from series that are massive commercial successes and often are series that I expect no entry from in the near future. And so while I'm generally with Sakurai on picking his roster, that mentality is a bit confusing to me.

Protagonist first is something I don't have an issue with, except for series like Fire Emblem or games with ensemble casts. In those series, the primary protagonist is almost always not as good as the surrounding cast, and so that seems like an arbitrary limiting factor.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,381
Houston, TX
I think asking a series to be proven first is a bit strange, just because so many of the characters that I love in Smash don't exactly come from series that are massive commercial successes and often are series that I expect no entry from in the near future. And so while I'm generally with Sakurai on picking his roster, that mentality is a bit confusing to me.

Protagonist first is something I don't have an issue with, except for series like Fire Emblem or games with ensemble casts. In those series, the primary protagonist is almost always not as good as the surrounding cast, and so that seems like an arbitrary limiting factor.
I think Sakurai's logic is that he doesn't want to put his eggs in a basket that could end up flopping like what happened with The Wonderful 101 or Code Name: STEAM. Take ARMS for example, it did ultimately succeed, but it could have just as easily bombed. And in that case, he would have ended up adding a character from an IP with no future, something that he's moved away from recently. But at the same time, the protagonists-first thing would have resulted in Spring Man being prioritized over Twintelle.

As I implied earlier, both of these have an adverse impact on the potential for representation in Smash. For example, Rodin (who could have been easy black/brown representation) ended up being an Assist Trophy. Even with the number of unique newcomers being limited this time around due to the "Everyone is Here" focus, at least having Rodin as playable would have been nice.
 

P-Tux7

Member
Mar 11, 2019
1,344
This is so exciting. Goes to show how different this forum is from the old one. I'm making another thread about LGBT representation that's been in the works since Wednesday.

As a casual discussion question about inclusion/representation that I don't feel qualified to make its own thread, how does being more inclusive of Muslims work out in non-historical (i.e. RDR2) or non-Earth--based (i.e. how Life is Strange is based on the real world just with invented characters, powers, and plot) fiction? Like, how are you supposed to put those specific religious practices into Hyrule? Allegory? I'm very sorry that the Islamic prayer customs and dress codes make it harder to create Muslim-esque characters without mentioning the specific religious God (as opposed to Christians who have a more "invisible" religion, dress, and customs). I don't want to be like one of those "quit trying to jam homosexuality where it's not plot-essential!" jerks for Islam, so I hope people here have some good ideas.
 

fadedbones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,593
Great thread, glad to have something like this up! Watched, would love to see some positive examples of diversity.

As a Dominican male with a mocha skin tone and weird curly/wavy hair, I've never been able to 100% make myself in games. From skin color to facial features, to hair, it feels like I can never have the whole package. Games let you play green people but it hurts when you can't get your own damn skin tone. I came so damn close to making myself in MGSV, but the skin tones choices didn't go dark enough. It hurt, it really did, to be playing a character called "vic boss", as I used my real name ofc but didn't know about that nickname. The guy on screen allllmost looked like me.

So sick of tired of the limited hairstyle choices in RPGs as well, FOH with the fade or discoball afro as the only choices, sheesh.

Are there any examples of Dominicans in games?
 

Datajoy

use of an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,081
Angola / Zaire border region.
Since I feel like we can get a good discussion going here, I'm curious as to your thoughts on a few things related to Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.
  • How do you feel about Sakurai's approach to the roster with regards to representation?
    • Do you think Sakurai is right to decide the roster so far ahead of time?
    • Do you believe Sakurai's stance on new IPs (wait until they're proven to be successful) is a good or bad call in relation to representation?
      • The likes of ARMS & Dragalia Lost would be prime examples of games impacted by this.
    • Do you think the amount of representation (or lack thereof) in Smash is because of Sakurai or Nintendo?
  • Do you think there will be a noticeable change one way or the other with Nintendo choosing the post-Piranha Plant DLC characters?
  • How you do you want Smash to proceed going forward
    • Example: Do you want Nintendo to take control of roster selection going forward?
  • Do you agree with Sakurai's protagonist-first mentality in relation to potential representation?
I would guess that Sakurai and Nintendo spend exactly zero time thinking about representation (as the term is taken to mean in this thread) when deciding the Smash Bros roster.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,381
Houston, TX
I would guess that Sakurai and Nintendo spend exactly zero time thinking about representation (as the term is taken to mean in this thread) when deciding the Smash Bros roster.
You're likely right. And given the racist stereotypes that got through to the final game on Sakurai's watch (& still haven't been rectified), I feel like he doesn't give a damn about representation when it comes to character selection if he didn't bother to check for blatant signs of racism.

That's not to discredit Sakurai's talent as a director in general. It's just that he could do a much better job of considering representation in his games.
 
Jul 20, 2018
2,684
Aside from the obvious racial,sexual and gender diversities that more games are embracing to the dismay of vocal minority on reddit, twitter, YT etc, I would like to specifically thank SoulsBorne games and now Sekiro for featuring smaller stature character, which in all fairness might not be for the sake of representation but rather gameplay. Still intent vs impact being a thing, this felt relevant.

There's a good variety of female characters in them, which is great. We've got large-chested giant girls, knights in shining armor, badass old ladies, sad girls who just want to be left alone, and more!

Not many dark-skinned characters though. I feel like Dark Souls II is the only one we get to see a PoC's face, but I could be forgetting someone.
 

Datajoy

use of an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,081
Angola / Zaire border region.
You're likely right. And given the racist stereotypes that got through to the final game on Sakurai's watch (& still haven't been rectified), I feel like he doesn't give a damn about representation when it comes to character selection if he didn't bother to check for blatant signs of racism.

That's not to discredit Sakurai's talent as a director in general. It's just that he could do a much better job of considering representation in his games.
Yeah. I think of all the points mentioned in your original post, the key barrier is the insistence on using protagonists (which itself speaks to a broader issue that even in games with diverse casts, the protagonist is always a white man). Taking ARMS as an example, Twintelle is vastly more popular than Spring Man, but the protagonist rule means that Spring Man would probably get the nod in the next Smash game as the ARMS rep.
 

Elyian

Member
Feb 7, 2018
2,466
Great thread, glad to have something like this up! Watched, would love to see some positive examples of diversity.

As a Dominican male with a mocha skin tone and weird curly/wavy hair, I've never been able to 100% make myself in games. From skin color to facial features, to hair, it feels like I can never have the whole package. Games let you play green people but it hurts when you can't get your own damn skin tone. I came so damn close to making myself in MGSV, but the skin tones choices didn't go dark enough. It hurt, it really did, to be playing a character called "vic boss", as I used my real name ofc but didn't know about that nickname. The guy on screen allllmost looked like me.

So sick of tired of the limited hairstyle choices in RPGs as well, FOH with the fade or discoball afro as the only choices, sheesh.

Are there any examples of Dominicans in games?
I've tried to think of a SINGLE example of Dominicans in games, and the only thing that ever comes up is MenaRD. Shit, making myself in a game always boils down to tannish skin with a buzzcut, cause that's the best it's ever gonna get. We'll get something one of these days though man, one of these days...
 

Damn Silly

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,194
Very good OT, and a thread I hope to follow, even if only to learn.

Being a straight, white, cis male I have never had to worry about inclusiveness from a personal perspective but the more we get the better the industry will be.

Same here. Even if I were to look from a purely selfish standpoint, better diversity in games and in the industry on the whole should lead to a wider variety of more interesting stories to tell and experience.

Of course, doesn't compare to people actually having someone who represents them.
 

BAD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,565
USA
Great thread, glad to have something like this up! Watched, would love to see some positive examples of diversity.

As a Dominican male with a mocha skin tone and weird curly/wavy hair, I've never been able to 100% make myself in games. From skin color to facial features, to hair, it feels like I can never have the whole package. Games let you play green people but it hurts when you can't get your own damn skin tone. I came so damn close to making myself in MGSV, but the skin tones choices didn't go dark enough. It hurt, it really did, to be playing a character called "vic boss", as I used my real name ofc but didn't know about that nickname. The guy on screen allllmost looked like me.

So sick of tired of the limited hairstyle choices in RPGs as well, FOH with the fade or discoball afro as the only choices, sheesh.

Are there any examples of Dominicans in games?
I've tried to think of a SINGLE example of Dominicans in games, and the only thing that ever comes up is MenaRD. Shit, making myself in a game always boils down to tannish skin with a buzzcut, cause that's the best it's ever gonna get. We'll get something one of these days though man, one of these days...
Mafia 3's protag is half Dominican iirc
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,381
Houston, TX
Yeah. I think of all the points mentioned in your original post, the key barrier is the insistence on using protagonists (which itself speaks to a broader issue that even in games with diverse casts, the protagonist is always a white man). Taking ARMS as an example, Twintelle is vastly more popular than Spring Man, but the protagonist rule means that Spring Man would probably get the nod in the next Smash game as the ARMS rep.
While I don't expect Twintelle to usurp Spring Man, she has already begun to dethrone Ribbon Girl as the leading lady.

I hope this is a sign of what's to come for the eventual ARMS sequel (I.E. Spring Man & Twintelle on the cover) as well as the next Smash game.

As for the protagonists-first thing, it makes perfect sense for a game like Smash. I just wish that Sakurai was a bit more lax about it like how Capcom goes about selecting characters for the Versus games (for their own side).
 

Fanto

Is this tag ok?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,863
Great thread, OP!

For myself, bisexual male, and although there are plenty of RPGs and the like where I can make a character like me if I want, there are very few, if any, major games that I can think of where the main male protagonist is explicitly gay/bi.

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I remember linking to this article a couple years ago back in the LiS: BtS OT, but I think it's worth highlighting it again in here since it is very on topic and does a much better job than I ever could of explaining why this stuff is so important.

Opinion – Life is Strange: Before the Storm Is The Queer Love Story I've Always Wanted In A Game

Elise Favis from Game Informer wrote this article. The full article is great and I highly recommend reading it (light spoilers in there, so tread carefully if that concerns you) but just to grab some spoiler-free quotes that I really love and agree with:
Growing up, I was bombarded with love stories, from my favorite television shows to Disney animations. Wherever I looked, I saw a happy heterosexual couple, and it was the only kind of romantic love I knew. I was never explicitly told to be a certain way, but it was clear that I was expected to follow societal conventions. Gaming is a powerful medium that drives empathy, and can empower those that are vulnerable and help educate others. The queer community, as well as other marginalized groups, need this positive reinforcement to thrive.
Queer representation is important, especially for those that are struggling with their sexual identity and/or gender expression. It can be difficult for these individuals to find acceptance and safe spaces. According to a study done by the Cincinnati Children's Hospital Medical Center in 2016, 30 percent of transgender youth have reported at least one suicide attempt. With at least 20 percent of millennials in the United States identifying as LGBTQ, it makes sense to have adequate representation in a medium commonly targeting that demographic.
Video games have the power to reach us on an incredibly intimate level. Because of the agency they provide, we can both empathize and connect to these virtual worlds and their inhabitants in a different way than we can in television or literature. Queer characters like the ones in Before The Storm offer us a deep look at different perspectives, and also gives the queer community something positive and relatable, which can be very difficult to find. I hope to see more developers tackle these topics in the future so that we can have more unique and personal stories that relate to all sorts of audiences.
 
OP
OP
Oct 25, 2017
13,246
This is so exciting. Goes to show how different this forum is from the old one. I'm making another thread about LGBT representation that's been in the works since Wednesday.

As a casual discussion question about inclusion/representation that I don't feel qualified to make its own thread, how does being more inclusive of Muslims work out in non-historical (i.e. RDR2) or non-Earth--based (i.e. how Life is Strange is based on the real world just with invented characters, powers, and plot) fiction? Like, how are you supposed to put those specific religious practices into Hyrule? Allegory? I'm very sorry that the Islamic prayer customs and dress codes make it harder to create Muslim-esque characters without mentioning the specific religious God (as opposed to Christians who have a more "invisible" religion, dress, and customs). I don't want to be like one of those "quit trying to jam homosexuality where it's not plot-essential!" jerks for Islam, so I hope people here have some good ideas.

Looking forward to your thread. As for your question, I don't feel I am fully equipped to answer your question, so I hope others can chime in, however I would say that if Muslims cannot fit in the context of the game world, there is no need to force it. But I do think in that regard, Islam follows other religions and so if other religions can be present in the game world, so can Islam. Aside from period pieces like RDR2 where historical context would result in a lack of Muslims, in games such as sci-fi or fantasy titles, if the title is capable of showing members of other religions (e.g Christians), then Muslims should work as well.

With something like Hyrule and the Legend of Zelda, the world is ill-equipped to handle any real world religion, and not just Islam.

Great thread, glad to have something like this up! Watched, would love to see some positive examples of diversity.

As a Dominican male with a mocha skin tone and weird curly/wavy hair, I've never been able to 100% make myself in games. From skin color to facial features, to hair, it feels like I can never have the whole package. Games let you play green people but it hurts when you can't get your own damn skin tone. I came so damn close to making myself in MGSV, but the skin tones choices didn't go dark enough. It hurt, it really did, to be playing a character called "vic boss", as I used my real name ofc but didn't know about that nickname. The guy on screen allllmost looked like me.

So sick of tired of the limited hairstyle choices in RPGs as well, FOH with the fade or discoball afro as the only choices, sheesh.

Are there any examples of Dominicans in games?

I run into this problem as well. I'm a lighter skinned brown dude and I can never find the proper tone option. I generally have to resort to the "white but tanned" option, but that never comes close to matching my complexion, or really even nails how certain parts of the face can be lighter/darker than others.