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Do Black Video Game Characters With Obscured Faces And Skin Count As Representation?

Do black video game characters with obscured faces and skin (Like Cyrax) count as representation?

  • Yes, even if you never see their skin/face

    Votes: 80 60.6%

  • Yes, if you see their skin/face at some point in the same game

    Votes: 25 18.9%

  • Yes, if you see their skin/face at some point in the same franchise

    Votes: 13 9.8%

  • No

    Votes: 14 10.6%
  • Total voters
    132
Gundam

Gundam

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,801
Gonna keep the premise of this short and straightforward.

For example, when counting up the amount of black characters in Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3, do you count 1, or 2?


latest

The 2 characters being Jax and Cyrax.

Fun fact: Cyrax is black.

Cyraxhumanmk9.jpg



I feel like this should be a straightforward "yes", but I don't know.
 
Kapryov

Kapryov

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,144
Australia
I don't think Cyrax was intended to be black during the development of MK3, so he shouldn't count... in that game.
He counts for MK9 though.
 
StayHandsome

StayHandsome

Member
Nov 30, 2017
763
I would think that part of the mission to dispel the common idea that "normal equals white" would require people of all races to be represented not just in un-masked costumes.

So for me the answer is that yes that counts as representation, but obviously an extreme case where there are 5 recognizably white dudes and 5 unrecognizable dudes in full body armor and masks can't really be used to claim fair representation, even if you say they're all black.
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
You know, I did a phrase search on "is metroid girl" and got a lot fewer results than I expected. Anyway, as you all were.
 
Willin

Willin

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,091
Does it really count as representation when the character is reveal as black 16 years after the character's debut?
 
SilverX

SilverX

Member
Jan 21, 2018
13,016
Just by flipping the question you can see the answer is definitely a straightforward yes

Is Cyrax NOT black? Nope, regardless if you can see his face or not, it is a known fact about him and counts as representation.
 
Antrax

Antrax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,286
Gundam said:
Obviously yes. To compare to my example, you never see Cyrax as a black human in UMK3, nor is he ever described as one. We know Samus is a woman from her first game.
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Right, I answered the "only if you know in the actual game."

It's like JK Rowling looking for brownie points but not actually having that diversity in the works themselves. You don't get credit if you had to tell people after the fact.
 
Valkerion

Valkerion

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,246
Im gonna say yes. Just because they got a mask on does not make their race change or not being able to say/claim they are a certain one.

Also yeah, Cyrax without/before the cyberdization has been know as a black man since MK4.
 

rawhide

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,003
Does Subzero count as a Chinese ninja warrior with a heart so cold when he's portrayed by Henry Rollins?

Does Sheeva's inclusion count as Shokan representation when she's clearly a photoshopped human and not a goofy stop-motion puppet?
 
OP
OP
Gundam

Gundam

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,801
rawhide said:
Does Subzero count as a Chinese ninja warrior with a heart so cold when he's portrayed by Henry Rollins?

Does Sheeva's inclusion count as Shokan representation when she's clearly a photoshopped human and not a goofy stop-motion puppet?
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Subzerooooooooo.

I feel like you're joking with the last question but I actually feel like someone could argue for a similar question
 
hey it's that dog

hey it's that dog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,107
I mean obviously it counts in some sense, but visibility seems like an important part of representation. So it partly depends on whether the knowledge of his identity is widespread. At some point it became so, but did not start that way.

But yeah, current Cyrax counts even if he's covered. The psychological impact would probably be greater and therefore the representation more valuable if he was less covered, though.
 
Hoa

Hoa

Member
Jun 6, 2018
4,304
They count for me. Cyrax was known to be black for quite a long time.
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
StayHandsome said:
So for me the answer is that yes that counts as representation, but obviously an extreme case where there are 5 recognizably white dudes and 5 unrecognizable dudes in full body armor and masks can't really be used to claim fair representation, even if you say they're all black.
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I will say despite my flippant previous post that I absolutely do agree with this notion. Even if you get some well-known black actors to do the voices for them, it's still a disparity that would surely have racist overtones. That said, I can't think of any game that has done something like this, and I doubt any developer worth their weight would want to be the first for that very reason.
 
virtua_44

virtua_44

Member
Jan 16, 2019
1,082
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Cyrax being black like a "retcon" in a way? In the sense that I'm pretty sure he wasn't originally intended to be black and i don't think it was every revealed back in the day.
 
Cokomon

Cokomon

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 11, 2017
3,766
We need a half cyberized Cyrax for MK11 DLC. Would fit with his part of the story.
 

rawhide

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,003
sahfarry said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Cyrax being black like a "retcon" in a way? In the sense that I'm pretty sure he wasn't originally intended to be black and i don't think it was every revealed back in the day.
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There was never any reference to his ethnicity before MK Gold, so yeah, retcon.

One might have inferred that he was ethnically Chinese, given that the Lin Kuei is a Chinese clan, but Subzero's part of that same clan and his actor is caucasian as hell, so there was never any consistency in that regard. I think they handwaved that aspect later on by saying the Lin Kuei kidnapped children from all over the world.
 
Kinsei

Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
20,545
sahfarry said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Cyrax being black like a "retcon" in a way? In the sense that I'm pretty sure he wasn't originally intended to be black and i don't think it was every revealed back in the day.
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Possibly. I don't think they had any design for him as a human internally until they started working on MK4.
 
nded

nded

Member
Nov 14, 2017
10,576
sahfarry said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Cyrax being black like a "retcon" in a way? In the sense that I'm pretty sure he wasn't originally intended to be black and i don't think it was every revealed back in the day.
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I don't think it qualifies as a retcon since Cyrax being black in MK4 doesn't really contradict anything in MK3. It's just new information that wasn't previously known; kind of like how Vader turning out to be Luke's dad isn't a retcon. Tough to say what he was "intended" to be without asking the creators themselves.
 
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Deleted member 426

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,273
Isn't representation more about the quality of the character, rather than whether or not they wear a mask?
 
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