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Do you have faith that Xbox Game Studios can produce consistent, quality games?

  • Yes, I believe they're on the right track and will eventually consistently produce top quality games

    Votes: 512 43.5%
  • No, they haven't proven yet that they can consistently output quality games

    Votes: 609 51.7%
  • I think they're already consistently producing quality games

    Votes: 57 4.8%

  • Total voters
    1,178

Evil Lucario

Member
Feb 16, 2019
448
I don't have faith right now. They're building up for the next generation, but until I see tangible evidence that they're going to put out quality games, I'm going to be skeptical.

Not to say I won't be rooting for them, but until I see the games I don't have much faith.
 

Kasey

Member
Nov 1, 2017
10,822
Boise
MS giving their studios ludicrous amounts of hands-off creative freedom is how Peter Molyneux was able to run around overpromising and underdelivering for years.

MS supervision is the only reason the staggeringly incompetent Bungie managed to release functional games.
But Rare made Kinect games sooooooo...
 

Azerth

Prophet of Truth - Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,191
this gen and toward the end of last xbox MS viewed xbox as a media box that can play games. now that has changed and and MS looks at xbox as a game console that can also do media. Phil now reports directly to the ceo and not someone who doesnt care about xbox. He seems to be given more of a budget to improve things hence the hireing spree and new studios.

so yes i think xbox is returning to the way they did things during the first xbox and first half of the 360
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
Rare was 150 staff when making Kinect Sports Rivals, after it flopped they had layoffs. They were 200+ at the peak of their Kinect success, but they closed down their second studio and laid off a lot of their art team including Chris Seavor. Rare also relied a lot on contract employees.

"You've got to look at the right game idea and the right franchise for the right goal the company has at that time," Duncan says, explaining why 150 people have spent the last two years creating Kinect Sports Rivals.

That just tells us 150 people worked on Rivals, not that there were only 150 developers at Rare. Even in the same article the implication is that they had developers working on other projects beyond Kinect stuff, so presumably they had more than 150 staff.

"but that doesn't mean Rare isn't working on other, non-Kinect Sports games, Duncan says. Inside the barns we're not allowed into new games are being worked on in secret, he says. Just don't ask what they are."

Following Kinect Rivals release, I believe 16 staff were laid off, but I have no idea what it took the final number of staff down to, only that they'd previously listed around 200.
 

Rathorial

Member
Oct 28, 2017
578
Yeah, I think they've already taken plenty of steps to sort out their weaknesses in first-party. Consistency is a tough thing to do in this industry, and I don't think Sony, Nintendo or any major publisher wows every time.

The increased amount of games they will have in the future will increase the chances we get good and interesting content, and I can't see them getting worse.
 

jsnepo

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,648
Microsoft is going there but what they need is to let their devs do their thiing. That's what Sony does and still do.
 

Phendrana

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,063
Melbourne, Australia
No. Why should I? This generation for Xbox has been a joke. I went from being a 360 owner to not even bothering with the One.

They're clearly trying to fix things, but...I just don't have much faith that it will go as smoothly as lots of people here think. Several of the studios they have acquired aren't exactly of a high pedigree, and I'm not confident that Microsoft are going to guide them in the way that PlayStation was able to with their studios. Cultivating a high level of quality takes a lot of time - it's only this generation that all of Sony's first party teams have started firing on all cylinders. Why would I expect Xbox to start knocking it out of the park within a couple of years? They haven't earned that level of optimism at all.

Xbox is nothing but empty promises at the moment. Why would I expect the We Happy Few or State of Decay teams to suddenly start putting out must-play titles? Why would I expect Playground Games, a studio that has only developed racing games to this point, to nail an open world RPG on their first try? They might, but it's far from guaranteed. Until we get a GOTY level game from any of these studios, I'm going to stay skeptical.
 

JINX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,473
That just tells us 150 people worked on Rivals, not that there were only 150 developers at Rare. Even in the same article the implication is that they had developers working on other projects beyond Kinect stuff, so presumably they had more than 150 staff.

"but that doesn't mean Rare isn't working on other, non-Kinect Sports games, Duncan says. Inside the barns we're not allowed into new games are being worked on in secret, he says. Just don't ask what they are."

Following Kinect Rivals release, I believe 16 staff were laid off, but I have no idea what it took the final number of staff down to, only that they'd previously listed around 200.
Rare's prototype team is around 5-6 people, it was lead by Louise O'Connor (Conker) not some big second team. SOT was still a very early unity prototype 7 months after Rivals shipped, they clearly had barely any pre-pro time on SOT before rivals shipped if any. That team was the Rare Replay team which was a small team working with outside teams.

EDIT: It should also be pointed out that Joe Neate the EP at Rare said SOT post launch team was bigger than the team that made the game, that was before they hired for a fourth SoT team (so around 120-130, currently that team is around 150 with the four team.) We know they were fully focused on SoT, the only other team was the incubation team again lead by Lousie O'Conor which was a tiny team. Who's game seems to have gone into production in the last year. Which is the obvious reason they have grown a ton.
 
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Nax

Hero of Bowerstone
Member
Oct 10, 2018
6,674
I gotta see one big success from them first. I liked Horizon 4, but it didn't light the gaming world on fire and was largely an afterthought at the end of the year. I want an Xbox game I'm thinking about the entire year.
 

Sulik2

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,168
For a six year stretch from 2001 - 2007 Microsoft was the best first party publisher in the planet. If they get back their focus on games and that drive for excellence they can get their groove back.
 

xabbott

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,065
Florida
They've made a lot of the right moves with the studios they've bought, but availablity of talent has never been their sole problem, it's been managing them.

They've pushed studios into designing games to push whatever their broader corporate objectives are (kinect, smartglass, GAAS, even just multiplayer), not to just do right by the games they're making.

They've turned studios into factories for a given IP, squandering their creativity.

They've shut down developers, and burned bridges.

Ultimately, they're just not surprising these days.

I hope they're going to shake things up next gen and going forward.

I agree that there are/were issues with management but everything you just pointed out is what all of the console makers do.

We used a PS4 controller as a spray can, Nintendo still making motion controls,etc. Sony dropped the San Diego staff that worked on Kill Strain. While leaving the MLB team there. They also dropped Evolution, etc. I bring these up not because they're bad for doing this just saying that even the companies with excellent first party output do many of the same things.

I mean even when you talk about surprise. SoT, Halo Wars, Sunset, Ori, Cuphead, etc. don't seem like releases that are safe bets. They seem like what you put out when you are on a budget. Knowing that you still have to keep the staff working on the "big games."
 

Karateka

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,940
This is the dumbest time to be done.
MS hasnt bought another big studio since the start of the 360 when coincidentally they had some decent games comong out consistently.
 

Betty

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,604
Not really.

The problem with Gears and Halo isn't the gameplay, it's the story.

Gears got really ridiculous by the second game and Halo honestly started to lose the plot with Halo 2 as well.

Since then they've both churned out narratives that range from unremarkable to god-awful.

With Gears 5 they're trying to make it all serious and dramatic when it used to be more like a dumb blockbuster, it feels at odds with the series itself.

Then there's Halo which is still to wrap up it's current arc featuring the silliest villain in the entire series, it's going to be a real drag on Infinite no matter how great that game ends up being.

Maybe it's just my issue with the games but the stories are important and they are so far not succeeding at all.

As for the rest? I'll remain sceptical until they deliver the goods.
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
Rare did that to themselves. Again, it's the fault of Microsoft giving its studios too much freedom. Too much of a good thing is a bad thing.
Some blame can be placed at MS's door, but it was apathy more than meddling. Microsoft were very apathetic towards Perfect Dark: Core because they didn't see the value in any game that had any similarity to Halo whatsoever. MS gave Rare a great deal of freedom as the years went on, but there were tensions there around 2006-ish. Especially since PD: Zero was pushed out the door as a 360 launch title in 2005 and it simply wasn't ready. While they were letting PD: Core (intended as a hybrid of Perfect dark and Deus Ex) die of neglect, they were turning down Crytek's offer to give them Crysis as an exclusive. Crysis would have proven a far, far greater asset than Ryse did, but MS were too shortsighted to see that. MS's fixation on Halo resulted into the whole "Halo+Gears+Forza" problem.
Not sure if you're being sarcastic or you played some other version, but that game was a broken piece of trash at launch.
The state of the game at launch doesn't really matter. STALKER is one of the greatest videogames ever made and THQ shipped it as soon as they were capable of speedrunning the main storyline with a crash. The responsibility of a publisher like MS is to ensure the games are polished at release. (The launch state of State of Decay 2 is definitely an area where MS deserve criticism, incidentally.) They didn't publish We Happy Few. We Happy Few has issues that stem from its constrained budget and ambition, but as an overall narrative-driven game it's simply incredible.
 

Deleted member 35071

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 1, 2017
1,656
no. I dont think i've liked any xbox 1 exclusive. And it seems like Halo/Gears have been on the slippery slope downwards for years now.

It doesn't even make sense. U would think they'd at least stumble into 1 big AAA exclusive thats amazing. Bad luck.....bad decisions..idk wth the problem is. Hope they do. Because xbox is where i game the most. My ps4 pro is just an exclusives machine. I play most third parties on xbox. I genuinely feel xbox is a better console. But they have had an exclusives problem for awhile now
 
Apr 18, 2018
293
Santa Cruz
I was one of those people in 2010 thinking to myself "man, there's is nothing coming out that appeals to me" and Incan only assume a lot of us had 360's and the reason you see such harsh critique she of Microsoft is because there's is still hope for something to appeal to us, that left after the 360,

I don't know if Microsoft can rope me back in and that's mostly because I don't know what I want. I want something that speaks to parts of me that music can't reach and seeing relationships and bonding apparently really grab ahold of me. Big Fish is my favorite movie due to the bond between the father and son and seeing games pluck certain strings of emotion that I didn't even know I wanted to see or care about and for a game to really play with that side of my emotions is incredible.

I don't feel that they can write something for their games as captivating as Sony or as feel anything whimsical that Nintendo are able to release. Halo lost me, Gears lost me, their racing games have lost me..and the problem is that I don't know what can even grab me.
 

Mington

Banned for use of alt account
Banned
Dec 22, 2018
1,429
I do yea.

But they need to be expanding out of thier comfort zone and buying studios who are in Europe
 
Dec 12, 2017
587
MS giving their studios ludicrous amounts of hands-off creative freedom is how Peter Molyneux was able to run around overpromising and underdelivering for years.

MS supervision is the only reason the staggeringly incompetent Bungie managed to release functional games.

I'm not a fly on the wall at any of these meetings, but when Scalebound was first shown it had Platinum written all over it, and then the next E3 they showed it at, it had 4 player online multiplayer and numbers coming off the enemies...seemed very microsoft all of a sudden...then the game was cancelled.
 

Teamocil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,134
They already do it. Halo 5 was quality, Gears 4 was quality, Sea of Thieves is quality (took a minute), Quantum Break is quality, Sunset Overdrive. I can go on. I mean Forza is the most consistent series this gen and last gen. I don't know where this blood in the water mentality for misfires comes from and how we pretend Sony doesn't also have these misfires. Sony struggled early this gen. They struggled last gen too. 3 million selling openings? PlayStation wasn't capable of that last gen. Halo owns that NPD list. Crackdown 3? Knack and Knack 2 are just as bad. State of Decay? Killzone Shadowfall faltered it's potential too. Let's not forget the VR misfires all over the place. Both of them have struggles if you look beyond the marquee devs.

So yeah I have faith because they've been doing it the whole time. Quality isn't solely beholden to 90+ titles.
This post sums up how I feel. PS4 has been my primary platform this gen but I can't deny the moves MS have been making. Their first party output doesn't look as impressive as Sony's because there's just not as much volume as Sony, but I think they're going to get there with time.
 

Sulik2

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,168
This is true only for the most hardcore Xbox fans

I put Halo 1-3, the Kotors, Fable, Forza, ninja gaiden black, Viva pinata, gears of war, mass effect, creating console online play and digital distribution as the greatest run of first party achievements ever. Even if you don't like some of those franchises it's hard to argue the impact they had. I want that Microsoft back.
 

N.Domixis

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,208
Nope, until I see 90+ metacritic hits. It's easy to release games, but can you release critical hits?
 

Ascenion

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,105
Mecklenburg-Strelitz
I gotta see one big success from them first. I liked Horizon 4, but it didn't light the gaming world on fire and was largely an afterthought at the end of the year. I want an Xbox game I'm thinking about the entire year.


You're calling the racing game of the year not a big success? Or you're comparing a racing game to the likes of God of War and Uncharted 4? There's bad logic here somewhere. I don't think a racing game with a 99 metacritic score would light the gaming world on fire. It's easy to see how sports titles are treated by media. That doesn't make it any less a success.
 

JINX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,473
I'm not a fly on the wall at any of these meetings, but when Scalebound was first shown it had Platinum written all over it, and then the next E3 they showed it at, it had 4 player online multiplayer and numbers coming off the enemies...seemed very microsoft all of a sudden...then the game was cancelled.
This has always been untrue, considering you see four players in the unveil trailer. But here is Kamiya's second in command calling it false on this forum:
synaesthesiaJP said:
No. It wasn't. It was always a co-op game from the first paper design document. We didn't reveal co-op at first other than teasing it in the CG trailer and hinting hard in interviews. The first year we only showed gameplay, we only showed single player because that was always the marketing plan. The tons of players swarming was four players and their dragons in a boss fight. The same four players and their dragons hinted at in the CG reveal.
 

kambaybolongo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,062
I put Halo 1-3, the Kotors, Fable, Forza, ninja gaiden black, Viva pinata, gears of war, mass effect, creating console online play and digital distribution as the greatest run of first party achievements ever. Even if you don't like some of those franchises it's hard to argue the impact they had. I want that Microsoft back.
Well that's different from saying they were the best first party publisher but it's still incredibly hyperbolic
 

Kasey

Member
Nov 1, 2017
10,822
Boise
Rare management wanted to make Kinect games. During that period, 4J released remasters of Banjo Kazooie, Banjo Tooie, and Perfect Dark. Then Rare was given total freedom to make whatever they wanted, and that was Sea of Thieves.
Rare did that to themselves. Again, it's the fault of Microsoft giving its studios too much freedom. Too much of a good thing is a bad thing.
To be clear, that comment was my attempt at sarcasm.

If anything, I think Microsoft's issue with Rare was focusing more on Nintendo style games and not green lighting stuff like Kameo 2 and Daybreak.

Also, from the Chris Seavor interviews I've read, Rare's culture wasn't suited for the changes the HD era brought to game development. They had too many disparate small teams making stuff that never left the prototype stage.
 

Adam802

Banned
Feb 12, 2018
660
im very confidant. theyve already greatly increased their 1st party studio count that are all surely working on next gen games. MS is hungry
 

Doom_Bringer

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
3,181
I think their intentions are good but they keep fucking up every now and then. Even if one of their newly acquired studios releases a bomb, they should keep them around. I mean GG went from releasing a turd like Shadow Fall to Horizon which IMO was amazing.

They should also let their studios explore different IP's. I would love to see 343 take on a new IP with their new engine.

I am sure their output next gen will be a lot better.
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
Also, from the Chris Seavor interviews I've read, Rare's culture wasn't suited for the changes the HD era brought to game development. They had too many disparate small teams making stuff that never left the prototype stage.
This. It was a brutal transition akin to the shift between 2D and 3D in the 90s that many British game studios failed to survive. Rare's N64 games were made by small, intimate teams that focused on good chemistry with some rather harsh crunch at times. But once the HD era came along, it all began to buckle. I think the biggest problem was that developers simply didn't have the luxury of making games that looked "dated". The graphical arms race was so destructive. Nintendo sidestepped it with the Wii, but everyone else was left out in the cold.
 

Jahranimo

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,020
We're not at next-gen for Xbox yet to see the fruits of their studio creation labor so it's a wait and see from me!
 
Apr 4, 2018
4,514
Vancouver, BC
Microsoft already has a solid foundation of great studios in the Coalition, 343, Turn 10, Playground Games, and Rare. Adding ninja Theory and Obsidian alone ensures that we'll see a higher output of quality games.

I think the question mark is how Microsoft intends to handle all these studios. Sony is giving every single one of their studios, copious amounts of support, funds, and time to complete one off, ludicrously high quality games. Microsoft seems to be taking a broader approach. Give certain studios lots of time and funds, perhaps letting some AA studios expand into AAA, while perhaps also letting some AA studios keep putting out AA games, and I think that's smart.

It might be smart for MS to put more AA games into the wild, and see if they stick, then push sequels for the ones that really hit a chord into the AAA space, or expand them into AAA like they are dong with Sea of Thieves.

Perhaps MS hasn't released as many Blockbusters this gen, but they have blown the competition away in post launch support, and with Game Pass, I can only imagine that's going to be a strength. I hope they come out all guns blazing next gen.
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,981
I think they are in the best spot they've been in, in a long time. It'll completely depend on how their new I.P shapes up for me though. Couldn't careless for any of their current stuff and I'm past the point of caring about Rare's classic stuff now too. High hopes for Playground, Ninja Theory and Obsidian changing that.
 

Hokey

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,164
I was team Xbox during Ps2 and Ps3 era despite owning all consoles because Microsoft consistently had the best multiplatform version of a game and was also pumping out great exclusives quite regularly. Somehow this seemed to have stopped in the Xbox One era so I haven't needed one this gen. It could be an issue with getting Japanese companies onboard to produce exclusives but right now I don't see much changing unfortunately. I really like Phil thou, he seems like an honest and likable guy.
 

Deleted member 4413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,238
Yes, they have been making consistently good choices ever since Spencer took over. Considering every positive Xbox thread on Era is derailed in the first page by console warriors it doesn't surprise me the poll is split almost evenly.

That video makes no sense. Does that guy not know how development works? I guess Spencer was supposed to snap his fingers and everything would magically be turned up to 11. Smh

GOTY incoming.
FelineBlackCranefly-size_restricted.gif


Is that Gears 5? That looks awesome! I really don't care for the Gears franchise but perhaps I should pay closer attention to this one.
 

Jeffrey Guang

Member
Nov 4, 2017
724
Taiwn
What people here seem to really want is a Game Award bait kind of video games.
Story driven, linear, and most importantly, has a definitive ending so people could move on to the next hype.
I have no problem on that kind of game, but I really hope Microsoft could create another new breeds of exclusive games that could excite hardcore gamers like ResetEra.
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,981
Yes, they have been making consistently good choices ever since Spencer took over. Considering every positive Xbox thread on Era is derailed in the first page by console warriors it doesn't surprise me the poll is split almost evenly.

That video makes no sense. Does that guy not know how development works? I guess Spencer was supposed to snap his fingers and everything would magically be turned up to 11. Smh




Is that Gears 5? That looks awesome! I really don't care for the Gears franchise but perhaps I should pay closer attention to this one.
Phil Spencer was the head of MS 1st party from 2009 to 2014, he's had plenty of time to improve it, but it got worse. They are finally out of the "Mattrick (and his) Era" though, so guess we'll see, I doubt they'll have another Kinect type derailment.
 

OneBadMutha

Member
Nov 2, 2017
6,059
Yes. It comes down to talent. If the Lakers, who were bottom of the NBA last add another Superstar or two, can they contend for a title? Yes, becomes it comes down to talent.

Microsoft ran a lean ship this gen. Everything that has shipped the past 3 years outside of Halo, Gears and Forza had lean budgets...and even those games didn't get the dev time necessary. Microsoft has expanded dev cycles, expanded their studios, bought new studios and poached high end developers with pedigree. They purchased other companies that will be able to give their internal studios more resources. They've changed strategy to give their studios more autonomy.

There's no reason to think that Ninja Theory, Obsidian and Playground are going to suddenly go to shit because they are owned by Microsoft. That would be logical only if Microsoft has people who didn't know what they were doing micromanaging them...and they're not doing that today.