Do you believe in Xbox Game Studios ability to sort out their first party?

[Blizzcut]

After seeing how piss poor Xbox's first party releases have been this generation I will more than likely make a full shift towards Playstation next gen (while still keeping my Xbox One X). I know that Microsoft bought up a bunch of studios but what is gonna stop them from not pushing these new bloods studios into churning out more GaaS like games which I loath and despise immensely. Playstation always delivers fresh NEW experiences and cinematic narrative driven adventures and you cant get that on the X.

 

[Kasey]

TLoU2 for sure, the other two though I am sure will be good can we really say GotY, just parroting earlier comments from the thread, see how that works ;)

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I kinda did the same thing.

 

[catashtrophe]

Anything is possible but it will take years and all depends on if MS are after an instant hit or if they allow the studios to built on what they release.

If MS want that instant 9+ rated game then it may not happen but if they let the studios create a good game that maybe was not an instant hit but has a good foundation then through some world building they could be in a good place.

 

[Scrooge]

Gears 5 and Ori 2 could definitely be GOTY contenders. Nintendo has a very packed second half with brand new games like Animal Crossing, Pokemon, and Luigi's Mansion 3, but those aren't as guaranteed to be "locks" for consideration like their Zelda, Mario, and Metroid series usually are. There is a Zelda game coming out, but it's a remake, so that might hurt its chances a bit. On the SONY side of things, a lot of the games aren't even confirmed for 2019, but assuming things go as expected, we can say that TLou2 will likely be a contender. The other possibilities aren't as guaranteed, IMO.

Anyway, even if critics don't pick one of the XGS titles as GOTY, that doesn't mean the games won't be great. There is no reason to expect Gears or Ori to disappoint.

 

[Rami Seb]

For some strange reason, people seem to be under the impression that Sony has some amazing lineup of world class studios, which is nonsense. Santa Monica and Naughty Dog are obviously top tier but the rest of their studios range from meh to pretty good. That MLB studio is pretty consistent even though its' an annual franchise

If Playground and the Initiative can prove to be on Naughty Dog and SSM level than its a wrap, because those studios aside, MS studios absolutely slaughter Sony's.

Ninja Theory, Turn 10, Obsidian and Coalition absolutely stomp Sucker Punch, Bend, Guerrilla and Poly Phonies in terms of quality and output of games. That's not even including 343i

 

[Outrun]

The game has changed now. With Gamepass, they need to churn games.

I think we will start to see those fruits in the coming years.

 

[Betty]

Okay, so if they are announced this year then what games are you talking about?

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Well from a mix of games we know are coming out and those we don't these are the ones I think have a shot for GOTY status.

TLOU2, Death stranding, Sekiro : Shadows Die Twice, The Outer Worlds, Devil May Cry V.

But again, I think there's a good number of games we have yet to know about being released later this year that could be in the running. Tetris Effect won a few GOTY awards and it wasn't even announced until E3 last year.

 

[Carolina Reaper]

They've wasted Rare for well over a decade. I have no hopes of them ever doing anything right.

 

[Rami Seb]

I can't really see it happening without some MAJOR cultural shake ups.

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They have had major cultural shake ups since 2014 since they got a new CEO.

Ori would need to be trans formative like Journey or Walking Dead season 1

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lol there was nothing even remotely trans formative about Journey or WD season 1. There was nothing trans formative about Celeste either

Gears 5... I really don't believe can do it.

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Maybe not but it has a far more likely chance than some Sony games like Days Gone and Ghost of Tsushima. The Coalition is simply a far more talented studio than Bend and Sucker Punch

I tapped out of the series after Gears 2, just couldn't handle how dumb the story was getting.

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Wait...so on one hand, the story about muscle bound dude bros chain sawing mutants in half is dumb...but at the same time you said..

With Gears 5 they're trying to make it all serious and dramatic when it used to be more like a dumb blockbuster, it feels at odds with the series itself.

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So the story is dumb...but when it becomes more serious its at odds with itself....

Which is it?

 

[Eumi]

I don't see any indication that they're now going to start to improve beyond having bought studios. And just because they've bought studios that doesn't mean they'll manage them well.

I'll believe they can do it when they actually start doing it.

 

[nib95]

They aren't traversal "segments", they are large maps that use the skiff as a means to get around.

Rod has said on multiple occasions that they purposely didn't rock the boat for Gears 4 in an attempt to win over the fanbase and gain an authorial ownership of the franchise from Epic. 5 is where the team really lets loose.

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Is it an open world game, or can you back track and freely explore areas, or are we talking something similar to the more linear set piece esque vehicle segments in the prior games?

But I'll ask again, what are the things the game is doing that are so different to past Gears titles? Are you able list points? I've not really seen anything, though I've read random musings on these forums.

 

[Bradbatross]

Is it an open world game, or can you back track and freely explore areas, or are we talking something similar to the more linear set piece esque vehicle segments in the prior games?

But I'll ask again, what are the things the game is doing that are so different to past Gears titles? Are you able list points? I've not really seen anything, though I've read random musings on these forums.

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Well, a poster who was verified on here claimed that the campaign maps are 20 times bigger than before. ANd he claimed there's going to be a big changeup to the multiplayer also.

Customizable weapons, 20x larger campaign maps, much longer campaign, more dynamic and various environments, brand new Horde, and different PvP experience.

Gears 5 will blow minds? Yep, I believe.

Edit: wording.

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[NekuWitTheDraco74]

MS's own Matt Booty said this:



Seems pretty clear. Their already big studios will continue making AAA games, but the new additions are looking at more frequent releases, smaller in scope than AAA but bigger than what we conventionally term "indie".

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They want smaller efficient studios not JUST AA games, most of the studios are sizing up anyway. Playground are AAA so are tbe initiative. Obsidian and ninja theory are the wildcard with what they wanna do, rest are probably AA

 

[nib95]

Well, a poster who was verified on here claimed that the campaign maps are 20 times bigger than before. ANd he claimed there's going to be a big changeup to the multiplayer also.

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If true, the campaign maps being that much bigger certainly sounds interesting. Here's hoping that extends to actual combat engagements and general exploration. Not sure what big change up to multiplayer even means without more information or detail though.

 

[The Albatross]

I'm in the Xbox ecosystem and the Xbox is my primary game console, while Playstation and Switch are secondary for me, but I don't really have faith in MS' first party studios putting out quality games. I don't think it's impossible that they can reverse course next generation, but I think a lot will end up being kinda niche or kinda meh... Which is what this generation has been.

Forza Horizon series is arguably one of the best exclusive franchises in gaming, but it's kinda niche. Despite being nearly a perfect game, Horizon 4 was easily bested in GOTY accolades by other pretty forgettable games because racing just isn't a genre that resonates either with the wider mainstream or with the enthusiast audience (like those of us here). Outside of those one or two truly excellent franchises that consistently produce incredible games, you have a lot of chuff that's either tired or a declining series (Gears of War, Halo), and then the new moonshots (Sea of Thieves, for instance) have missed their target.

But I'm the sort of weird console gamer who doesn't make buying decisions based primarily on exclusives. I prefer the Xbox platform more, prefer Xbox Live services more, and I end up owning every console each generation eventually anyway.

 

[Bradbatross]

If true, the campaign maps being that much bigger certainly sounds interesting. Here's hoping that extends to actual combat engagements and general exploration. Not sure what big change up to multiplayer even means without more information or detail though.

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I remembered it wrong, he didn't say 'big change', but 'brand new Horde, and different PvP experience'. But yea, it's yet to be seen what those changes are.

 

[Vire]

Well it's only up from here? How can you get worse than what they have now.

The amount of money invested will show soon enough and an elongated development time for Halo will also show its benefits.

 

[Betty]

They have had major cultural shake ups since 2014 since they got a new CEO.

lol there was nothing even remotely trans formative about Journey or WD season 1. There was nothing trans formative about Celeste either

Maybe not but it has a far more likely chance than some Sony games like Days Gone and Ghost of Tsushima. The Coalition is simply a far more talented studio than Bend and Sucker Punch


Wait...so on one hand, the story about muscle bound dude bros chain sawing mutants in half is dumb...but at the same time you said..



So the story is dumb...but when it becomes more serious its at odds with itself....

Which is it?

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The story is dumb and trying to make it serious just doesn't work.

With 5 it feels like they want to transition the franchise into a mature version of it's past self, like God of War did, but If they were going that route they should've done so from 4, which they could've still done while not changing the gameplay too much on their first outing.

But I think they were hamstrung to begin with because there's only so many hidden threats below this demolished planet of Sera that you can create before it get's ludicrous.

And from what they've shown I just don't have faith they'll nail the narrative anyway, it comes off way too overbearing and deathly dramatic.

Dramatic moments are fine, the series has had a few, but Gears 5 does feel at odds with itself when there's been scenes like this.



But hey this is just my feelings on the matter and it may yet turn out to be a magnum opus for the ages, time will tell.

Also, Journey & The Walking Dead season 1 were transformative for a lot of players, aside from the critical and commerical success they're still held in high regard to this day for what they accomplished and how much they mean to people that played them.

 

[Rami Seb]

The story is dumb and trying to make it serious just doesn't work.

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I agree the story is dumb, but that was part of the series charm. Some of the most memorable moments in Gears involve Cole Train

 

[Betty]

I agree the story is dumb, but that was part of the series charm. Some of the most memorable moments in Gears involve Cole Train

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Absolutely, that's what it's best at. For me I just couldn't tolerate how dumb it got but that is definitely where it's uniqueness lay, moving away from that will be for the worse.

Actually rewatching that scene now not only is the writing pretty damn good it's also really funny, in comparison Gears 5 looks utterly humourless.

 

[Budi]

Oh absolutely. Don't remember when was the last time I've been so excited about console first party. I'll be playing those on PC though, but I have 100% faith in their current studios to make games I'm interested in. No idea of course how larger audience receives these games, I feel they haven't had the deserved success before. But hopefully MS marketing push will help with that.

 

[Deleted member 19924]

-

 

[Lothars]

I have no faith in Microsoft First Party and even with the recent acquisitions, I can't trust them not to drop the ball. I hope I am wrong and with studios like Ninja Theory they will have some titles that will be incredible.

 

[correojon]

For some strange reason, people seem to be under the impression that Sony has some amazing lineup of world class studios, which is nonsense. Santa Monica and Naughty Dog are obviously top tier but the rest of their studios range from meh to pretty good. That MLB studio is pretty consistent even though its' an annual franchise

If Playground and the Initiative can prove to be on Naughty Dog and SSM level than its a wrap, because those studios aside, MS studios absolutely slaughter Sony's.

Ninja Theory, Turn 10, Obsidian and Coalition absolutely stomp Sucker Punch, Bend, Guerrilla and Poly Phonies in terms of quality and output of games. That's not even including 343i

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The question remains on how will those studios perform under MS´ mantle. I mean, when Rare was under the Nintendo umbrella they were top tier, but under MS...not so much. Conversely, a mid-tier studio like Guerrilla was able to up their game. Maybe this was a one-time fluke, or maybe the studio has been able to flourish under Sony´s structure like ND or SSM have done (I´d say they´ve gone from good to great). Past experiences indicate that studios tend to get fagocitated by MS´ extremely corporative structure and lose their mojo, let´s hope this is not the case and MS has learned something this gen.

 

[Kasey]

Is it an open world game, or can you back track and freely explore areas, or are we talking something similar to the more linear set piece esque vehicle segments in the prior games?

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Rod has specifically distanced the skiff gameplay in 5 from the "hallway" vehicle levels in the older games and said it's there to open the levels up. I don't think it's one
contiguous world map though. The closest comparison people have drawn is Tomb Raider and God of War's wide linear design. We do know it centers around Kait and Del's journey to Mount Kadar from Gears 2, and it's environments range from tundra to jungle to red sand dunes, so I think different acts of the story take place in large separate maps each with wildly different biomes.

Beyond that they haven't shown much besides new enemies and weapons, Kait and Del repelling (which could be just for a cutscene or new traversal method) and what appears to be a prone walk when Kait is in the kitchen filled with infested DeeBees. I would guess this will be the closest Gears gets to stealth gameplay.

 

[Betty]

It always surprised me that you knew Gears wasn't on Earth but on Sera and you basically know the entire Gears plotline without playing the games. Are you sure you're not a closet Gears fan? I'm sure you have a Dom tattoo somewhere.

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I was addicted to Gears, got the Seriously achievement in the first game and replayed the campaign a few times with my bro over Xbox Live, which was amazing, also seen LP's of 3 & 4.

Only reason I remember the planets name is because it sounds similar to that one dinosaur in The Land Before Time.

 

[Rami Seb]

I mean, when Rare was under the Nintendo umbrella they were top tier

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They were top tier but Nintendo also started their decline when they made that awful Star Fox Adventures abomination.

I agree with what you said though, about management. David Jaffe made this interesting video



Having talent means nothing without the proper management. It also doesn't mean letting devs off the leash and letting them go hog wild because this could also be equally disastrous as micro managing.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

They want smaller efficient studios not JUST AA games, most of the studios are sizing up anyway. Playground are AAA so are tbe initiative. Obsidian and ninja theory are the wildcard with what they wanna do, rest are probably AA

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Smaller 50 to 150 people studios aren't making $100m games.

Playground are part of the existing stable of AAAs and therefore included in the "Halo/Forza/Gears" part that Matt acknowledges.

The Initiative haven't released a single game yet but i'm sure it will be AAA because the studio was setup specifically to make such.

The rest clearly aren't large enough to make AAA games at the moment.

 

[Duderino]

Maybe not but it has a far more likely chance than some Sony games like Days Gone and Ghost of Tsushima. The Coalition is simply a far more talented studio than Bend and Sucker Punch

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Now this is an odd comparison. Talent comes in many different shapes and forms. What qualifiers are you using here?

 

[correojon]

They were top tier but Nintendo also started their decline when they made that awful Star Fox Adventures abomination.

I agree with what you said though, about management. David Jaffe made this interesting video



Having talent means nothing without the proper management. It also doesn't mean letting devs off the leash and letting them go hog wild because this could also be equally disastrous as micro managing.

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Cool little video, thanks for sharing! I agree 100% with what you say, I think good studio management is about finding that balance where you can provide an environment where your devs can express their creativity adn grow, while not losing focus of the final objective.

 

[Deleted member 12352]

Hard no.

 

[Papercuts]

I do think they're on the right track (or atleast a much better one) but I'd say no. There's a lot riding on the debut game for a lot of these studios under the MS label, and while I think the forza horizons, gears and halos are all solid they don't come close to the variety of Sony/Nintendo, and that takes a looooot of time to match.

Their push towards things like BC and Gamepass have been very cool to watch though and are big reasons I've transitioned mostly to the X for now, so I'm hoping the future first party output comes out strong to even that all out.

 

[TheBeardedOne]

They are already producing top quality games, and they have the best racing series of all time by far.

Are all of Sony's games winners? No.

 

[wenis]

lol no, not at all. recycle bin classics all throughout this generation.

washed as fuck.

 

[SuikerBrood]

Hard no.

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Why? You don't trust the new management? Or the new studios?

 

[Poutine]

Sure they do, they have great 1st party studios, made great acquisitions and have an unlimited supply of cash. They'll be fine.

 

[ghibli99]

Nowhere near the levels of quality output in either the 360 or original Xbox era, and I do hope they'll get there. My Xbox One has been a multiplatform, BC, and Game Pass treat though. I love it for those purposes.

 

[nib95]

Maybe not but it has a far more likely chance than some Sony games like Days Gone and Ghost of Tsushima. The Coalition is simply a far more talented studio than Bend and Sucker Punch

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Based on what? Lol. The Coalition has released just one game to an 84 meta, with an already established previous critical darling of an IP. Sucker Punch have multiple games in the low to high 80's (InFamous and Sly Cooper franchises), and Bend have the Syphon Filter franchise behind them, which has ranged from the 70's to 90's. It seems pretty amusing and presumptuous to categorically claim one or the other is far more talented than the rest lol.

Rod has specifically distanced the skiff gameplay in 5 from the "hallway" vehicle levels in the older games and said it's there to open the levels up. I don't think it's one
contiguous world map though. The closest comparison people have drawn is Tomb Raider and God of War's wide linear design. We do know it centers around Kait and Del's journey to Mount Kadar from Gears 2, and it's environments range from tundra to jungle to red sand dunes, so I think different acts of the story take place in large separate maps each with wildly different biomes.

Beyond that they haven't shown much besides new enemies and weapons, Kait and Del repelling (which could be just for a cutscene or new traversal method) and what appears to be a prone walk when Kait is in the kitchen filled with infested DeeBees. I would guess this will be the closest Gears gets to stealth gameplay.

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This stuff actually sounds solid. Here's hoping these rumours and murmurs are true and it isn't just lip service and misplaced ambitions or marketing hype.

 

[TheGhost]

I think a loud vocal miniority would not support great Xbox games anyway. But yeah, I think they will do fine. It depends though. Are they making games for me or making games for the journalists /current trends.

I don't want a BR game or story heavy /third person / cut scene heavy game.

I just want games that are fun to play and lets me get back to the action quickly. Something Anthem suffers from, too much story and cutscenes just let me fly.

 

[Deleted member 18951]

Smaller 50 to 150 people studios aren't making $100m games.

Playground are part of the existing stable of AAAs and therefore included in the "Halo/Forza/Gears" part that Matt acknowledges.

The Initiative haven't released a single game yet but i'm sure it will be AAA because the studio was setup specifically to make such.

The rest clearly aren't large enough to make AAA games at the moment.

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How many people work at Sony Bend or worked on Horizon ZD (I genuinely don't know)? A lot of studios that are around 100 to 150 can easily be classed as having AAA output as they also partner with other studios and development houses for a lot of the heavy lifting.

I would say that 343i, The Coalition, Turn10, Playground Team One and Two, Rare, The Initiative, Obsidian and maybe inXile will be AAA studios with Undead, Ninja Theory and Compulsion straddling that AA/AAA line.

 

[speedomodel]

Yes, absolutely.

 

[Kage Maru]

This thread and the poll options are premature. How can they prove to anyone if they can turn things around when there hasn't been enough time for the new studios to present their games?

 

[Rami Seb]

Sucker Punch have multiple games in the low to high 80's (InFamous and Sly Cooper franchises), and Bend have the Syphon Filter franchise behind them, which has ranged from the 70's to 90's. It seems pretty amusing and presumptuous to categorically claim one or the other is far more talented than the rest lol.

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So basically what you're saying is that Sucker Punch and Bend USE to put out better games but don't anymore. Got it. This is like arguing that Rare use to put out bangers on the N64 and even the Xbox 360 with Viva Pinata. I don't look at what a studio did 10 years ago

A lot of studios that are around 100 to 150 can easily be classed as having AAA output as they also partner with other studios and development houses for a lot of the heavy lifting.

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This is true, a lot of the core team outsource a lot of work. I recall Coalition outsourcing the bulk of Gears 4 MP to Splash Damage

 

[nib95]

So basically what you're saying is that Sucker Punch and Bend USE to put out better games but don't anymore. Got it. This is like arguing that Rare use to put out bangers on the N64 and even the Xbox 360 with Viva Pinata. I don't look at what a studio did 10 years ago

This is true, a lot of the core team outsource a lot of work. I recall Coalition outsourcing the bulk of Gears 4 MP to Splash Damage

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Sucker Punch's last game was essentially a launch title, and still hit a similar meta. There's too little here to conclude which of these studios is more talented than the other, let alone "far more talented" lol.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

This thread and the poll options are premature. How can they prove to anyone if they can turn things around when there hasn't been enough time for the new studios to present their games?

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I don't think you've properly understood the question in the thread title or the OP.

 

[Rami Seb]

Sucker Punch's last game was essentially a launch title, and still hit a similar meta. There's too little here to conclude which of these studios is more talented than the other, let alone "far more talented" lol.

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Fair enough

 

[Crayon]

Kind of depends on what they are going for. There's been a gamepass-level type of game coming from them recently and they seem to think theyre doing great.

 

[Servbot24]

I have no reason to believe they will do it on a regular basis. They have consistently had the weakest 1st party content for three generations running, and XB1 was the worst yet. Phil Spencer can be chummy with gamers all he wants, but until there are actually good video games I can't give him any congratulations.

That said, it's certainly possible to do. There is nothing about XBox that prevents good games from being made. They simply need to do a better job of choosing which projects to greenlight, identifying talented developers, and allowing those developers to pursue their visions without micromanaging. That's a lot, but it technically can be done.

 

[vivftp]

They are already producing top quality games, and they have the best racing series of all time by far.

Are all of Sony's games winners? No.

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Not all of Sony's games have to be winners for them to demonstrate a consistent level of quality. Same with Nintendo.

 

[only_fools_&_horses]

For some strange reason, people seem to be under the impression that Sony has some amazing lineup of world class studios, which is nonsense. Santa Monica and Naughty Dog are obviously top tier but the rest of their studios range from meh to pretty good. That MLB studio is pretty consistent even though its' an annual franchise

If Playground and the Initiative can prove to be on Naughty Dog and SSM level than its a wrap, because those studios aside, MS studios absolutely slaughter Sony's.

Ninja Theory, Turn 10, Obsidian and Coalition absolutely stomp Sucker Punch, Bend, Guerrilla and Poly Phonies in terms of quality and output of games. That's not even including 343i

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I admire your attitude.