do you guys remember that time in X2 when Professor Xavier nearly wiped out the entire human race all at once...

[Deleted member 24118]

...and then like twenty minutes later still had the audacity to be like "I don't understand why the humans fear us"?

For the uninitiated, in X2, he legitimately almost gave all 6-7 billion humans on the planet an aneurysm at the same time and then nobody ever brought it up again.

I get that he was tricked into doing it but that showed that he had the capability to end the entire human race basically whenever he felt like it. And yet this shiny-headed limey motherfucker still had the gall to act like humans were only biased against mutants because of ignorance and xenophobia.

I wonder how many millions of people died in that scene because even if he didn't kill everyone off, he still gave everyone a seizure at the same time which means that anyone flying a plane, driving a car, performing surgery, walking up or down a flight of stairs, working in a construction zone, or holding a small child likely either killed or critically injured themselves and/or the people in their immediate vicinity.

Worse yet, he still stuck to his guns that Magneto, the one who almost made him do it, was a good person deep down. Like I don't know how many billions of people your buddy has to either kill or attempt to kill before you accept that maybe there really isn't good left of inside him.

Then at the end of the movie they show up in the President's office and threaten to murder him.

 

[Marie]

...and then like twenty minutes later still had the audacity to be like "I don't understand why the humans fear us"?

For the uninitiated, in X2, he legitimately almost gave all 6-7 billion humans on the planet an aneurysm at the same time and then nobody ever brought it up again.

I get that he was tricked into doing it but that showed that he had the capability to end the entire human race basically whenever he felt like it. And yet this shiny-headed limey motherfucker still had the gall to act like humans were only biased against mutants because of ignorance and xenophobia.

I wonder how many millions of people died in that scene because even if he didn't kill everyone off, he still gave everyone a seizure at the same time which means that anyone flying a plane, driving a car, performing surgery, walking up or down a flight of stairs, working in a construction zone, or holding a small child likely either killed or critically injured themselves and/or the people in their immediate vicinity.

Worse yet, he still stuck to his guns that Magneto, the one who almost made him do it, was a good person deep down. Like I don't know how many billions of people your buddy has to either kill or attempt to kill before you accept that maybe there really isn't good left of inside him.

Then at the end of the movie they show up in the President's office and threaten to murder him.

Click to shrink...

I mean, in the xmen world yes mutants are prosecuted and killed just for being mutants. Something they have 0 control over.

 

[Deleted member 21709]

I mean, in the xmen world yes mutants are prosecuted and kill just for being mutants. Something they have 0 control over.

Click to shrink...

Seems justified based on the OP!

 

[Volimar]

I think the point is that you're not supposed to fear someone just because they're a mutant, not that there aren't mutants worth being afraid of.

 

[KtotheRoc]

J (Earth-1610)

1 appearance(s) of J (Earth-1610) 1 image(s) of J (Earth-1610) Wolverine

marvel.fandom.com

(From Ultimate Marvel.) This is one of the most dangerous mutants we have ever seen. A mutant with the ability to release toxic chemicals that destroys all organic material around him. He had no control over his abilities. The moment he got his powers, he killed hundreds of people.

Spoiler

Wolverine meets with him and we discover how remorseful he is. Wolverine tells him that he is too dangerous to keep around and all the deaths he was responsible for will be covered up for the good of mutantkind. It is not shown, but it was strongly implied, and later explicitly stated, that Wolverine killed him.

 

[Finaika]

J (Earth-1610)

1 appearance(s) of J (Earth-1610) 1 image(s) of J (Earth-1610) Wolverine

marvel.fandom.com

(From Ultimate Marvel.) This is one of the most dangerous mutants we have ever seen. A mutant with the ability to release toxic chemicals that destroys all organic material around him. He had no control over his abilities. The moment he got his powers, he killed hundreds of people.

Spoiler

Wolverine meets with him and we discover how remorseful he is. Wolverine tells him that he is too dangerous to keep around and all the deaths he was responsible for will be covered up for the good of mutantkind. It is not shown, but it was strongly implied, and later explicitly stated, that Wolverine killed him.

Click to shrink...

Wolverine could take him.

 

[ThereAreFourNaan]

The mutant discrimination = racism or homophobia thing has always been a strained metaphor for this reason yeah. It would be one thing if all mutants had the exact same low key powers, but the complete diceroll of what they can do ranging from just looking a bit gross to planetary threat is such that a comprehensive database of who could do what is the absolute least you would demand from that. It wouldn't even be a public debate.

 

[Unicorn]

Seems justified based on the OP!

Click to shrink...

But they aren't aware that prof x is that strong.

 

[VAD]

Spoiler

Wolverine meets with him and we discover how remorseful he is. Wolverine tells him that he is too dangerous to keep around and all the deaths he was responsible for will be covered up for the good of mutantkind. It is not shown, but it was strongly implied, and later explicitly stated, that Wolverine killed him.

Click to shrink...

This shit is why they were right to cancel the Ultimate universe.

 

[Modest_Modsoul]

J (Earth-1610)

1 appearance(s) of J (Earth-1610) 1 image(s) of J (Earth-1610) Wolverine

marvel.fandom.com

(From Ultimate Marvel.) This is one of the most dangerous mutants we have ever seen. A mutant with the ability to release toxic chemicals that destroys all organic material around him. He had no control over his abilities. The moment he got his powers, he killed hundreds of people.

Spoiler

Wolverine meets with him and we discover how remorseful he is. Wolverine tells him that he is too dangerous to keep around and all the deaths he was responsible for will be covered up for the good of mutantkind. It is not shown, but it was strongly implied, and later explicitly stated, that Wolverine killed him.

Click to shrink...

Poor kid... 😟

 

[matrix-cat]

Remember in Apocalypse when Magneto all but rips the entire planet apart and presumably wipes out like four billion people and at the end everyone's just like "k seeya Erik take care".

 

[Fliesen]

J (Earth-1610)

1 appearance(s) of J (Earth-1610) 1 image(s) of J (Earth-1610) Wolverine

marvel.fandom.com

(From Ultimate Marvel.) This is one of the most dangerous mutants we have ever seen. A mutant with the ability to release toxic chemicals that destroys all organic material around him. He had no control over his abilities. The moment he got his powers, he killed hundreds of people.

Spoiler

Wolverine meets with him and we discover how remorseful he is. Wolverine tells him that he is too dangerous to keep around and all the deaths he was responsible for will be covered up for the good of mutantkind. It is not shown, but it was strongly implied, and later explicitly stated, that Wolverine killed him.

Click to shrink...

Plot Twist - Wolverine killed him for wearing that shitty ass punisher shirt

 

[RealCanadianBro]

OP, I never considered your point about all the people who would have died (crashing a plane for example)...like holy shit that never crossed my mind.

 

[Jakisthe]

Sure; in real life the potential that some rando teen hitting puberty could suddenly lead to thousands of people dying because they got upset after a bad breakup would absolutely and justifiably lead to severe crackdowns and restrictions. That someone would willfully cause the entire planet to undergo mental collapse would lead to, at minimum, their vilification and widespread panic. It's the fundamental disconnect running counter to the main theme of the X-Men.

 

[El Bombastico]

Remember in Apocalypse when Magneto all but rips the entire planet apart and presumably wipes out like four billion people and at the end everyone's just like "k seeya Erik take care".

Click to shrink...

Dammit ya beat me too it.

At least Xavier was brainwashed into global genocide. Magneto did all that shit of his own choosing.

 

[chaobreaker]

J (Earth-1610)

1 appearance(s) of J (Earth-1610) 1 image(s) of J (Earth-1610) Wolverine

marvel.fandom.com

(From Ultimate Marvel.) This is one of the most dangerous mutants we have ever seen. A mutant with the ability to release toxic chemicals that destroys all organic material around him. He had no control over his abilities. The moment he got his powers, he killed hundreds of people.

Spoiler

Wolverine meets with him and we discover how remorseful he is. Wolverine tells him that he is too dangerous to keep around and all the deaths he was responsible for will be covered up for the good of mutantkind. It is not shown, but it was strongly implied, and later explicitly stated, that Wolverine killed him.

Click to shrink...

Yep that's Ultimate X-Men for you.

 

[Keywork]

I do like how they touch on this destructive ability again in "Logan", with Xavier being responsible for the death of the X-Men prior to the film's start. Though this time it was brought on by Alzheimer's and the disease serves as a ticking timebomb in the background that you see unleashed in small amounts during the film.

 

[Reizzz]

Sure; in real life the potential that some rando teen hitting puberty could suddenly lead to thousands of people dying because they got upset after a bad breakup would absolutely and justifiably lead to severe crackdowns and restrictions. That someone would willfully cause the entire planet to undergo mental collapse would lead to, at minimum, their vilification and widespread panic. It's the fundamental disconnect running counter to the main theme of the X-Men.

Click to shrink...

But like it works both ways right. Like they had the mutants targeted first. And yes professor x is powerful but at the end of the movie the President had the same kind of power in a way with how he would choose to follow up on it with his message to the public.

 

[Jakisthe]

But like it works both ways right. Like they had the mutants targeted first. And yes professor x is powerful but at the end of the movie the President had the same kind of power in a way with how he would choose to follow up on it with his message to the public.

Click to shrink...

If there was potential for someone to unilaterally destroy the planet, and these sort of someones were cropping up randomly not that infrequently, targeting them first could be very justifiable. I forget the particulars of the movie but the whole "we shouldn't be feared" mantra kinda doesn't work when when one of the possible outcomes is "bad breakup leads to thousands dead because random".

 

[Marie]

If there was potential for someone to unilaterally destroy the planet, and these sort of someones were cropping up randomly all the time, targeting them first could be very justifiable. I forget the particulars of the movie but the whole "we shouldn't be feared" mantra kinda doesn't work when when one of the possible outcomes is "bad breakup leads to thousands dead because random".

Click to shrink...

Yikes. Targeting people for something they are born with. Might as well throw them in a concentration camp while we're at it so they can be monitored.

 

[Jakisthe]

Yikes. Targeting people for something they are born with. Might as well throw them in a concentration camp while we're at it so they can be monitored.

Click to shrink...

..Yes? Did you miss the part about thousands dying because of teenage emotions, randomness, and lack of control? Like, if you had a subsection of the population who had a non-zero chance of becoming a nuclear bomb without any control, what would be your solution?

 

[Reizzz]

If there was potential for someone to unilaterally destroy the planet, and these sort of someones were cropping up randomly not that infrequently, targeting them first could be very justifiable. I forget the particulars of the movie but the whole "we shouldn't be feared" mantra kinda doesn't work when when one of the possible outcomes is "bad breakup leads to thousands dead because random".

Click to shrink...

I get what you're saying but look at real life right now because of a former tv celeb.

Also look at Days of Future Past. Thats the kind of thing that could have happened after the events of X2 if Professor x hadn't talked to the president. (Yes I know dofp is way in the future but you get what I mean lol)

 

[Marie]

..Yes? Did you miss the part about thousands dying because of teenage emotions, randomness, and lack of control?

Click to shrink...

did you miss the part that mutants are the evolution of human beings? so what you're going to keep imprisoning them? For something that is out of their hands? LOL
Why not just kill them all because something bad could happen.

 

[Jakisthe]

I get what you're saying but look at real life right now because of a former tv celeb.

Also look at Days of Future Past. Thats the kind of thing that could have happened after the events of X2 if Professor x hadn't talked to the president. (Yes I know dofp is way in the future but you get what I mean lol)

Click to shrink...

There are zero real life parallels, and regardless of one possible outcome, that doesn't mean anyone would be ok with mutants IRL.

did you miss the part that mutants are the evolution of human beings? so what you're going to keep imprisoning them? For something that is out of their hands? LOL
Why not just kill them all because something bad could happen.

Click to shrink...

Doesn't matter; they still pose colossal threats to the rest of the population, "evolution" or not. I'm sorry you feel "don't let people pose immense dangers to others with very little control" is a meanie justification.

 

[Marie]

There are zero real life parallels.

Doesn't matter; they still pose colossal threats to the rest of the population, "evolution" or not.

Click to shrink...

so why not just gas them all to remove the threat.

 

[Reizzz]

There are zero real life parallels.

Doesn't matter; they still pose colossal threats to the rest of the population, "evolution" or not.

Click to shrink...

You're misunderstanding. Im saying The President at the end of the movie could have put something in motion to stop all mutants but didn't. And we already know how bad it can get in Dofp. Mutant gene isn't capable of anything worse than any normal person.
And trump is literally a parallel. Look ay his influence on white supremacy and its effect on poc.

 

[Jakisthe]

so why not just gas them all to remove the threat.

Click to shrink...

Hey look, Godwins law. But that's ok; keep trying to justify thousands dying randomly because you think it would be mean to do anything.

You're misunderstanding. Im saying The President at the end of the movie could have put something in motion to stop all mutants but didn't. And we already know how bad it can get in Dofp. Mutant gene isn't capable of anything worse than any normal person.
And trump is literally a parallel. Look ay his influence on white supremacy and its effect on poc.

Click to shrink...

If mutants existed in the real world, they would absolutely and justifiably be feared.

Again: you have a subsection of the population which has a non-zero chance of becoming a nuclear bomb in the reins of teenage emotion. This would be terrifying.

 

[Marie]

Hey look, Godwins law. But that's ok; keep trying to justify thousands dying randomly because you think it would be mean to do anything.

Click to shrink...

yes and you are saying they should round up and imprison hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of people just because they were born with the mutant gene.

 

[Kain]

The X-Men movies are all terrible

 

[Jakisthe]

yes and you are saying they should round up and imprison hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of people just because they were born with the mutant gene.

Click to shrink...

And you're saying the rest of the planet should live in abject terror and fear of randomly dying, beholden to whims of singular randos at *best*.

 

[DeathyBoy]

But like it works both ways right. Like they had the mutants targeted first. And yes professor x is powerful but at the end of the movie the President had the same kind of power in a way with how he would choose to follow up on it with his message to the public.

Click to shrink...

It's also worth noting Xavier is a gigantic hypocrite, gloriously so. Like he talks about making the world a better place, but he turns the X-Men into the equivalent of a paramilitary force. In the films they aren't using their powers to help people, they're using them to fight supervillains. Storm Isn't helping agriculture, Iceman isn't trying to keep the planet cool etc.

 

[Francesco]

so why not just gas them all to remove the threat.

Click to shrink...

Irl there wasn't any threat of people around them burning from the inside out. Or literally every human being getting an aneurism...

 

[DeltaRed]

There wouldn't really be proof Xavier caused that to the general public.

 

[Veelk]

Doesn't matter; they still pose colossal threats to the rest of the population, "evolution" or not.

Click to shrink...

Well, here's the thing: This kind of argumentation basically frames the logic of white supremacy as being valid, but not correct.

Like, White Supremacists hate other ethnicities because they see them as being existential threats to themselves. Jewish people control the world, Black people are brutish and violent, Asians are generically predisposed to being more intelligent, etc. All these races need to be either controlled or eliminated for white people to live safely. They're wrong, of course, because none of that is happening. All the minorities white supremacists hate are just people who aren't meaningfully different from white people on any biological level. They're equal to us.

But are you saying that if they were right about those stereotypes being a reality, white supremacists would be justified in viewing them as threats and enemies to be eliminated just for existing as they are?

X-men pushes this question to the most extreme end because it creates a category of person that can, at random, be a walking existential threat to humanity. Are you justified in being hateful to this group because they genuinely are a threat to you just by existing?

For me, if it is truly random, you can't actually control it. You don't know when you'll get a mutant who explodes into a nuke when A. they are in distress B when they are relaxed and happy or C. something truly random like when they take a shit. All you'd be doing in creating a fascist state that gives mutants who can control their dangerous powers a lot of reason to use them against you. But similarly, I agree you need some form of negation of mutants who are just dicks and will harm others even when they don't have reasons to. And some kind of way to deal with mutants who aren't trying to do anything wrong but can't control their powers or whatever. I don't think there is any kind of answer to that that is 100% proof because...this is just kind of outside the scope of human ability to control. Anything can set it off, including any attempt to avert that scenario be it fascist crackdown or some kind of kindly rehab facility.

But I particularly loathe the "They are dangerous, so a fascist crack down on them is okay" because concedes the point bigotry that they are right in their framing, just wrong in their assessment. No, the reason White Supremancy is bullshit is because people deserve rights regardless of whether they are different or not. Even when they are threats to us, they deserve those rights.

 

[RiOrius]

By that logic, the Injustice universe validates Luthor's fear of Superman, since he also has way too much power and needs to be kept in check for the good of mankind.

 

[Jakisthe]

Well, here's the thing: This kind of argumentation basically frames the logic of white supremacy as being valid, but not correct.

Like, White Supremacists hate other ethnicities because they see them as being existential threats to themselves. Jewish people control the world, Black people are brutish and violent, Asians are generically predisposed to being more intelligent, etc. All these races need to be either controlled or eliminated for white people to live safely. They're wrong, of course, because none of that is happening. All the minorities white supremacists hate are just people who aren't meaningfully different from white people on any biological level. They're equal to us.

But are you saying that if they were right about those stereotypes being a reality, white supremacists would be justified in viewing them as threats and enemies?

X-men pushes this question to the most extreme end because it creates a category of person that can, at random, be a walking existential threat to humanity. Are you justified in being hateful to this group because they genuinely are a threat to you just by existing?

For me, if it is truly random, you can't actually control it. You don't know when you'll get a mutant who explodes into a nuke when A. they are in distress B when they are relaxed and happy or C. something truly random like when they take a shit. All you'd be doing in creating a fascist state that gives mutants who can control their dangerous powers a lot of reason to use them against you. But similarly, I agree you need some form of negation of mutants who are just dicks and will harm others even when they don't have reasons to. And some kind of way to deal with mutants who aren't trying to do anything wrong but can't control their powers or whatever. I don't think there is any kind of answer to that that is 100% proof because...this is just kind of outside the scope of human ability to control. Anything can set it off, including any attempt to avert that scenario be it fascist crackdown or some kind of kindly rehab facility.

But I particularly loathe the "They are dangerous, so a fascist crack down on them is okay" because concedes the point bigotry that they are right in their framing, just wrong in their assessment. No, the reason White Supremancy is bullshit is because people deserve rights regardless of whether they are different or not. Even when they are threats to us, they deserve those rights.

Click to shrink...

To which I say:

Like, if you had a subsection of the population who had a non-zero chance of becoming a nuclear bomb without any control, what would be your solution?

Click to shrink...

 

[Veelk]

To which I say:

Click to shrink...

I wouldn't have one. As I explained, I don't see how you would control for that. A fascist crackdown on such people seems as likely to cause such an event as prevent it.

I honestly just wouldn't worry about it the same way I don't worry about being shot by any of the dozens of strangers I meet every day. Any one of them could. In fact, where I work, I feel like I was close to such an incident. The place I work at, there was a shooting where a man killed his wife and then himself. I found the body. If I had arrived at the location where I found them a couple minutes earlier, I could have barged in on their situation and the man could decided to include me in his murder-suicide. In fact, I remember a second incident back in high school, where a classmate was shot walking home in a driveby, and I think the conclusion was that he was shot because he looked like someone those men had an issue with. He wasn't the guy, but he looked like him, and he's dead because of that.

And the same thing could happen any day with any person. I have no way to control that. It's not an existential threat to a population, like a nuke is, but it's an existential threat to me, and you, and anyone else. At any point, your neighbor or friend or stranger walking down the street can shoot you. Anyone can do it.

I take obvious precautions to avoid such a situation, but those precautions aren't foolproof. I don't have a gun and I don't plan on it because I don't think it would meaningfully help my chances except in very few circumstances. If I thought it did, I might get one, but even then it wouldn't be foolproof either. Murder is a threat that can happen any day, but it's not a likely one and it will not happen with 99.99999% of the people I meet in my life. So I don't see the point in worrying about it. One day, I might be murdered and it's just something that I accept can happen. That's my best answer to your question.

 

[Pluto]

J (Earth-1610)

1 appearance(s) of J (Earth-1610) 1 image(s) of J (Earth-1610) Wolverine

marvel.fandom.com

(From Ultimate Marvel.) This is one of the most dangerous mutants we have ever seen. A mutant with the ability to release toxic chemicals that destroys all organic material around him. He had no control over his abilities. The moment he got his powers, he killed hundreds of people.

Spoiler

Wolverine meets with him and we discover how remorseful he is. Wolverine tells him that he is too dangerous to keep around and all the deaths he was responsible for will be covered up for the good of mutantkind. It is not shown, but it was strongly implied, and later explicitly stated, that Wolverine killed him.

Click to shrink...

Ultimate X-Men sucked ass and this is why, the X-Men are giant hypocrites in this. They send Wolverine to murder an innocent kid for being a mutant and because they fear him/his powers ... so what Bendis is telling the reader is that sending assassins after kids is justified.

Why not help him instead? Put him in a hazmat suit and take him back to the mansion, have him sleep in a separate cabin on the premises, have mutants with healing factors interact with him out of his suit or have telepaths project themselves into his cabin/mind while working on a cure that would suppress or eliminate his X gene.
Other mutants cannot control their powers either, Scott's optical blasts fire constantly when eyes are open, did they poke his eyeballs out? No, he got a visor and special glasses instead, Rogue just follows a "no skin contact" policy instead of getting adamantium clawed. They do find ways to deal with not fully controllable powers ... if they want to.

They didn't murder J because there was no other choice, they murdered him because he is living proof why a cure is necessary, there's no argument why his powers shouldn't be taken away permanently and that doesn't fit Xavier's goals.

 

[Rosebud]

To which I say:

Click to shrink...

How about trying to help them to control their powers, and not the opposite (giving a reason to use them to protect themselves)

Even if it's not that bad, anyone can become a murderer at any moment

 

[Jakisthe]

I wouldn't have one. As I explained, I don't see how you would control for that. A fascist crackdown on such people seems as likely to cause such an event as prevent it.

I honestly just wouldn't worry about it the same way I don't worry about being shot by any of the dozens of strangers I meet every day. Any one of them could. In fact, where I work, I feel like I was close to such an incident. The place I work at, there was a shooting where a man killed his wife and then himself. I found the body. If I had arrived at the location where I found them a couple minutes earlier, I could have barged in on their situation and the man could decided to include me in his murder-suicide. In fact, I remember a second incident back in high school, where a classmate was shot walking home in a driveby, and I think the conclusion was that he was shot because he looked like someone those men had an issue with. He wasn't the guy, but he looked like him, and he's dead because of that.

And the same thing could happen any day with any person. I have no way to control that. It's not an existential threat to a population, like a nuke is, but it's an existential threat to me, and you, and anyone else. At any point, your neighbor or friend or stranger walking down the street can shoot you. Anyone can do it.

I don't have a gun and I don't plan on it because I don't live in fear of that. It's a threat, but it's not a likely one and it will not happen with 99.99999% of the people I meet in my life. So I don't see the point in worrying about it. One day, I might be murdered and it's just something that I accept can happen. That's my best answer to your question.

Click to shrink...

And in the real world, not having solution to a problem like that wouldn't fly, which is my point. Guns don't materialize randomly into teenagers hands sometimes when they get angry, and they don't threaten the entire planet.

How about trying to help them to control their powers, and not the opposite (giving a reason to use them to protect themselves)

Even if it's not that bad, anyone can become a murderer at any moment

Click to shrink...

There's countless stories of mutants randomly activating their powers before they even knew they had anything to control; all it takes is one real unlucky roll of the dice and there goes the county.

You guys have to be kidding me here. "Oh well, might as well let our entire population live in fear of from a completely untrackable and unpreventable issue" clearly, clearly doesn't work in the real world, and the parallels that keep getting drawn keep falling short. Unlike guns, there isn't some limit on the damage that can get done. Unlike bombs, it doesn't have a trail of evidence leading up to it to stop things before it happens. Apparently, any laws to mitigate this threat are "fascism", so that's out too. Just get to have billions of people wondering if the next time they see a 13 year old they're going to turn into ash.

 

[Veelk]

And in the real world, not having solution to a problem like that wouldn't fly, which is my point. Guns don't materialize randomly into teenagers hands sometimes when they get angry, and they don't threaten the entire planet.

Click to shrink...

And my point is there is no solution.

You have yet to provide actual proof that a fascist crackdown would be in any way effective in a situation where an existentially threatening mutant power can appear for ANY reason. If a fascist crackdown is equally likely to cause a child to go nuclear where they otherwise wouldn't as the opposite, there is no point to it. You may as well do what I do about unstable men with guns. Nothing.

Anyway, you avoided my point about how your argument concedes to the framing of White Supremacy. Are you saying that White Supremacy's framing of the world is correct, even if their assessment of the characteristics of other ethnicities is wrong?

 

[Jakisthe]

And my point is there is no solution.

You have yet to provide actual proof that a fascist crackdown would be in any way effective in a situation where an existentially threatening mutant power can appear for ANY reason. If a fascist crackdown is equally likely to cause a child to go nuclear where they otherwise wouldn't as the opposite, there is no point to it.

Anyway, you avoided my point about how your argument concedes to the framing of White Supremacy. Are you saying that White Supremacy's framing of the world is correct, even if their assessment of the characteristics of other ethnicities is wrong?

Click to shrink...

Well, no, there is a solution, and if mutants existed IRL people would be massively in favor of it. There is no "proof", because none of this actually happened; that's just what would happen. People wouldn't want to live in fear of dying randomly from a completely unpreventable threat, and trying to frame it as if I'm therefore pro white supremacy is a hilarious strawman which completely ignores what would actually justifiably happen.

Essentially, your argument is "people should be able to threaten others as much as they want because free will is the absolute most important thing ever, even moreso than the deaths of orders of magnitude more people", which, of course, wouldn't fly. Not every time does an argument wind up on the side of "lets curb the freedom of some to save the lives of millions more" does it then equal "white supremacy", and it's a dishonest warping to pretend otherwise.

 

[Veelk]

Well, no, there is a solution, and if mutants existed IRL people would be massively in favor of it. There is no "proof", because none of this actually happened; that's just what would happen. People wouldn't want to live in fear of dying randomly from a completely unpreventable threat.

Click to shrink...

We're talking about the moral rightness of the response, not what people would do. We already know people would act immorally and resort to fascism because....*points wildly to black lives matter protests among other hundreds of other stupid bigoted bullshit*

But like...what are you arguing then? Because you were saying before that fascist crackdowns would be justified, not that they would just happen. If you're saying there is no proof that it would help anything and you know this, why are you arguing in favor of it?


And if you're just saying people need SOME kind of answer to this in order to not fear, that answer doesn't HAVE to be fascism. We could have all sorts of things like rehab centers or care facilities that humanize mutants so they don't have to fear coming out with their dangerous powers to others, knowing that there is a place that might be able to teach them so they won't hurt anyone. That would reduce fear in people because that'd be an answer.

 

[Schreckweg 5000]

so why not just gas them all to remove the threat.

Click to shrink...

There is something very unsettling about your posts

 

[Jakisthe]

We're talking about the moral rightness of the response, not what people would do. We already know people would act immorally and resort to fascism because....*points wildly to black lives matter protests among other hundreds of other stupid bigoted bullshit*

But like...what are you arguing then? Because you were saying before that fascist crackdowns would be justified, not that they would just happen. If you're saying there is no proof that it would help anything and you know this, why are you arguing in favor of it?


And if you're just saying people need SOME kind of answer to this in order to not fear, that answer doesn't HAVE to be fascism.

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I'm saying that people would be very justified to be scared of mutants, and that governments would take steps to stop them.

It would also be morally right to put the lives of billions over the lives of a few hundred thousand.

 

[Veelk]

I'm saying that people would be very justified to be scared of mutants, and that governments would take steps to stop them.

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I'm gonna ask you this directly again: White supremacy argues in favor of genocide because it views other ethnicities as existential threats to itself.

If it were accurate in its view of other ethnicities, would it's advocacy for genocide be correct in your eyes?

 

[Jakisthe]

I'm gonna ask you this directly again: White supremacy argues in favor of genocide because it views other ethnicities as existential threats to itself.

If it were accurate in its view of other ethnicities, would it's advocacy for genocide be correct in your eyes?

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Again with the white supremacy. Not everything is a parallel to white supremacy.

I'll ask you again:

Like, if you had a subsection of the population who had a non-zero chance of becoming a nuclear bomb without any control, what would be your solution?

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Bearing in mind that "no solution" doesn't fly, because turns out, most people don't want uncontrollable nuclear bombs walking around, and "doing nothing" has probably also has a non-zero chance of the planet blowing up given there seems to be no limit on what powers can do. Not sure why I have to have an answer, and no matter how many times I ask, you get to shirk the question. Heck, if this was a good parallel to white supremacy, it should be an easy one.

 

[Volimar]

I didn't realize Senator Kelly had an Era account.

 

[Veelk]

Again with the white supremacy, as if it were comparable.

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You are weirdly avoiding a very simple question here, dude. I'm not even comparing it to the X-men situation, I'm asking you straight up, without relation to X-men - If the way white supremacists view other ethnicities were true - black people being predisposed to violence, jewish people being greedy, etc - if that were reality, would white supremacist solutions be correct then?

If so, why?

If not, why?

I'll ask you again:
Like, if you had a subsection of the population who had a non-zero chance of becoming a nuclear bomb without any control, what would be your solution?
Bearing in mind that "no solution" doesn't fly, because turns out, most people don't want uncontrollable nuclear bombs. Not sure why I have to have an answer, and no matter how many times I ask, you get to shirk the question.

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And I already told you: Nothing. I have no reason to believe any particular action would prevent the thing from occurring. That's not me shirking, it's me giving you the material answer for what I would do about it, for reasons I already outlined with my own personal experience of existential threats.

I'm not sure why you don't accept that as an answer. The idea that people would refuse to live in fear from the threat of death kind of loses it's force when we are living in a covid-19 world where people routinely go out and take off their masks despite the obvious scientifically supported solution being the way to prevent death.

Maybe it's wierd to say, but it seems pretty self evident that people endure existential threats pretty okay, especially if they have an other to blame, even if that other isn't actually responsible or blaming that other can meaningfully change anything.

 

[Jakisthe]

You are weirdly avoiding a very simple question here, dude. I'm not even comparing it to the X-men situation, I'm asking you straight up, without relation to X-men - If the way white supremacists view other ethnicities were true - black people being predisposed to violence, jewish people being greedy, etc - if that were reality, would white supremacist solutions be correct then?

If so, why?

If not, why?

And I already told you: Nothing. I have no reason to believe any particular action would prevent the thing from occurring. That's not me shirking, it's me giving you the material answer for what I would do about it, for reasons I already outlined with my own personal experience of existential threats.

I'm not sure why you don't accept that as an answer. The idea that people would refuse to live in fear from the threat of death kind of loses it's force when we are living in a covid-19 world where people routinely go out and take off their masks despite the obvious scientifically supported solution being the way to prevent death.

Maybe it's wierd to say, but it seems pretty self evident that people endure existential threats pretty okay, especially if they have an other to blame, even if that other isn't actually responsible or blaming that other can meaningfully change anything.

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Well, I'm avoiding it because it's a silly and obvious trap to cram me into a complete non parallel of agreeing with white supremacism, instead of the reality of what would be the weighting, that of thousands of lives vs billions and that, oh right, the parallel doesn't work at all, because Jewish people aren't actually living superweapons appearing at random and the idea of "lets save many of lives at a cost of a few" isn't somehow the unique core of white supremacy. "Many over the few" is an age old thought cycle, not one that actual real life monsters have unique dominion over. Not everything is white supremacy, no matter how hard you try to cram that square peg into the round hole, and this is one of those times when it's just not the same thing.

So forgive me circumventing the irrelevant, but I'll answer it: white supremacy bad; cracking down on uncontrollable nuclear bombs good; no those aren't the same.

Weird that you value hundreds of thousands more than billions, but I guess that's your prerogative. It wouldn't work, of course, and people would be correct to want to save the vast majority, but sure, your prerogative. I guess if you get to pretend a teenage blowing up a city block is just an unknowable "other" it works out.