Do you guys think the SSD in PS5/Xbox Series X is a gamechanger?

[fracas]

I hope I'll eat my words, but nah. Not for the first several years of next gen at least. I already have near-instant load times on PC. Devs still have to keep HDDs in mind, so I'm expecting to see little more than fast load times and minimized LOD pop-in outside of console exclusives that might do some more impressive, specialized things with the hardware. It'll be a significant upgrade for sure, I just don't expect some incredible leap.

 

[LuckyLocke]

No offense it isn't about speed. It's about how the flash controller removes the bottlenecks associated with maximum throughout and the speed enabling data transfers far beyond anything commercially available.

Edit:
And please don't bring XSX Platform Wars into it, because I'm sure the ports and games we see will speak for themselves - we don't need another thread where we bash each other senselessly.

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No offence thuway, but I'm not looking to bring console wars to the threads, all I want is for the conversation to be more balanced and nuanced than it currently is. What PS5 has done to their storage solution is amazing, but reading these threads it feels like they are the only ones making breakthrough in this category, which is very far from the truth.
XSX will supposedly be using a next gen PCIe 4x4 Phison controller (PS5019-E19T) which has very impressive numbers and is not even on any SSD currently in the market. The console also has other custom chips to maximize storage efficiency such as their hardware decompression chip and some form of hardware support for DirectX's sampler feedback streaming feature. These will greatly enhance the capabilities of the new Xbox's storage solution beyond raw throughput numbers. In addition to hardware, the DirectStorage API will bring additional improvements and efficiency to the pipeline.

Phil Spencer has even stated that the XSX SSDs can be used as virtual ram (source), that's just how fast this storage is.

The point I'm trying to make is that yes, the PS5 team has done some amazing work with their storage solution, but if you take as much time to research what is being proposed in the XSX solution as you have with the PS5 solution, you will soon realize that all the improvements proposed by Sony's PS5 will also be very possible on the next Xbox. What remains to be seen is if the additional performance that the PS5 storage offers will bring anything to the table that is simply not possible with the XSX (or future PC SSDs), and quite frankly, I don't think so.

 

[Vitamin_B_Complex]

People should keep in mind that speed is games is often fake due to hard drive limits. Spider-Man, Death Stranding's zip lines, Steep's air diving. All of these games and more add a bunch of post processing effect to sell the effect of speed but you don't really become thaaat much faster. This should change very easily next gen. They can still employ the effect but have you move much faster.

I for one can't wait to build up speed while swimming in Spider-Man and then fling myself into the sky to see the city from far far above.

 

[EagleClaw]

This is a question that has an obvious answer.

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Many people will now be confused what you answered ;-)

 

[Decarb]

And the benefits of all 5 points to consumers are loading time and ...?

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None of those points reference to loading "time", what are you talking about?

 

[RoninStrife]

Many people will now be confused what you answered ;-)

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Lol 🙃😉

 

[Mighty Twig]

I hope so but I doubt it (maybe so from a developer perspective but from a gamer's, no).

At least that Unreal Engine tech demo meant to showcase this "game changing" ability didn't inspire a lot of confidence in that regard. It was shaped like a dime a dozen 3rd person action game featuring the greatest hits of modern game design such as slow walking, pulling control from the player to make the character physically react to something visually impressive, squeezing through a crevice, climbing designated and obviously marked climbing areas, no AI, more slow walking, and ended with the God of War special - impressive stuff in a cutscene that you can't actually do in gameplay, all at a game-changing 1440p* 30fps.

I don't believe game design will be fundamentally changed in any real noticable way. Fast (or non existent) load times will be great though.

 

[NewDust]

The true question is if multi-platform developers will be 'brave' enough to axe HDD support on PC.

 

[Vitamin_B_Complex]

The true question is if multi-platform developers will be 'brave' enough to axe HDD support on PC.

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They will in 1 year for cross gen games and immediately for next gen multiplats. If not, then their game is not really taking advantage of the SSD.

 

[EagleClaw]

The true question is if multi-platform developers will be 'brave' enough to axe HDD support on PC.

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I give it 1 year, maybe 1 1/2, the same time the "no generations" plan ends.

 

[Madjoki]

Yes but it's not the SSD, it's the storage architecture.

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Both really (for consoles).

The true question is if multi-platform developers will be 'brave' enough to axe HDD support on PC.

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I hope so. Really, they should've done this 7 years ago.

 

[DoubleTake]

Im just imagining a hallucination/dream sequence in a horror game where your character is walking down a hallway with a dead end and as you turn the camera to head back the game loads in a completely new, otherworldly, environment and then you turn again and it happens again.

This is the type of of shit I expect to see.

 

[Decarb]

The true question is if multi-platform developers will be 'brave' enough to axe HDD support on PC.

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They did abandon <2GB GPUs and dual core CPUs pretty quickly this gen, so hopefully they'll abandon spinners asap.

 

[cowbanana]

Maybe... it's about time for sure. I thought I was late to the SSD party when I swapped to SSDs exclusively in my PC in 2013. The 5400 rpm drives in consoles are so shit I didn't even use garbage like that 20 years ago. Let's see how it all turns out and how revolutionary it will be for game design. The PS5 solution looks incredibly good on paper.

I wouldn't have survived console gaming this gen if I hadn't put an SSD in my PS4. It's been a real sanity saver.

 

[Deleted member 43]

Unquestionably.

 

[Xeontech]

With so much hype about the SSD in next gen consoles and now the new Linus video do you guys think this will truly be a gamechanger and why?

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Have you played Anthem? No loading times will be 200% more playtime ratio.

Not even exaggerating.

 

[TaySan]

I think it will be for game design now that all consoles have SSD's now, but i don't think anyone should throw their PC's out of their window or anything like that. An SSD can't magically make a GPU faster.

 

[Vitamin_B_Complex]

Unquestionably.

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But PCs have SSDs since 2010. /s

 

[defaltoption]

Like it was posted a few spots up, no need to try to bring console warring into this.

The title and OP is pretty clear and devoid of all that.

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Not trying to start a console war, I'm hyped as hell for ps5 but i can still state how I feel about it's tech. I think it's going to a huge deal, ssds in all platforms will at the same time will be. I just don't think it's a generational leap over other ssds, whereas any ssd is a generational leap over a hdd. Then like I said I'm still excited that it's so good because everyone else will try to compete with it, making things better for everyone. You can even look at my post history my favorite games are made by Sony but that doesn't mean they are devoid of any criticism or that everyone is a fanboy for one side or the other.

 

[Pryme]

Linus has to recently issue an apology over doubting just how important IO is.


It's short sighted to try and say it's only the SSD. It's the entire confluence of SSD, Flash Controller, and customizations that make PS5 a game changer

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Title says PS5/XSX

You've somehow made it all about the PS5. C'mon, man.

 

[ShapeDePapa]

If the dev community think it's a game changer I guess it's a game changer lol.

 

[tutomos]

This is exactly what I dont think will happen. Great design is due to designers, not tech.
Will it make things easier, yes. But great designers will make great games regardless. And all the tech in the world wont help mediocre design.

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Plenty of great indies doing amazing 2d games. Imagine if they start to work on 3D games now with this tech.

 

[Javier23]

Im just imagining a hallucination/dream sequence in a horror game where your character is walking down a hallway with a dead end and as you turn the camera to head back the game loads in a completely new, otherworldly, environment and then you turn again and it happens again.

This is the type of of shit I expect to see.

Click to shrink...

The Evil Within was basically 20 hours of this.

 

[Proven]

No offence thuway, but I'm not looking to bring console wars to the threads, all I want is for the conversation to be more balanced and nuanced than it currently is. What PS5 has done to their storage solution is amazing, but reading these threads it feels like they are the only ones making breakthrough in this category, which is very far from the truth.
XSX will supposedly be using a next gen PCIe 4x4 Phison controller (PS5019-E19T) which has very impressive numbers and is not even on any SSD currently in the market. The console also has other custom chips to maximize storage efficiency such as their hardware decompression chip and some form of hardware support for DirectX's sampler feedback streaming feature. These will greatly enhance the capabilities of the new Xbox's storage solution beyond raw throughput numbers. In addition to hardware, the DirectStorage API will bring additional improvements and efficiency to the pipeline.

Phil Spencer has even stated that the XSX SSDs can be used as virtual ram (source), that's just how fast this storage is.

The point I'm trying to make is that yes, the PS5 team has done some amazing work with their storage solution, but if you take as much time to research what is being proposed in the XSX solution as you have with the PS5 solution, you will soon realize that all the improvements proposed by Sony's PS5 will also be very possible on the next Xbox. What remains to be seen is if the additional performance that the PS5 storage offers will bring anything to the table that is simply not possible with the XSX (or future PC SSDs), and quite frankly, I don't think so.

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Good post. It's kind of silly to think that Xbox isn't doing some insane customizations on their end, the general vibe I get is that people think they are just throwing in an off the shelf SSD in the box and calling it a day, which is wrong.

 

[mute]

Yes, but not for a couple years.

 

[DoubleTake]

The Evil Within was basically 20 hours of this.

Click to shrink...

I'm hazy on Evil Within as I havent played it since release, but I'm almost positive there was nothing like that. I mean happening in moment to moment gameplay and used as a gameplay device. Not a transition through closed doors accompanied by a cutscene.

 

[Deleted member 43]

No offence thuway, but I'm not looking to bring console wars to the threads, all I want is for the conversation to be more balanced and nuanced than it currently is. What PS5 has done to their storage solution is amazing, but reading these threads it feels like they are the only ones making breakthrough in this category, which is very far from the truth.
XSX will supposedly be using a next gen PCIe 4x4 Phison controller (PS5019-E19T) which has very impressive numbers and is not even on any SSD currently in the market. The console also has other custom chips to maximize storage efficiency such as their hardware decompression chip and some form of hardware support for DirectX's sampler feedback streaming feature. These will greatly enhance the capabilities of the new Xbox's storage solution beyond raw throughput numbers. In addition to hardware, the DirectStorage API will bring additional improvements and efficiency to the pipeline.

Phil Spencer has even stated that the XSX SSDs can be used as virtual ram (source), that's just how fast this storage is.

The point I'm trying to make is that yes, the PS5 team has done some amazing work with their storage solution, but if you take as much time to research what is being proposed in the XSX solution as you have with the PS5 solution, you will soon realize that all the improvements proposed by Sony's PS5 will also be very possible on the next Xbox. What remains to be seen is if the additional performance that the PS5 storage offers will bring anything to the table that is simply not possible with the XSX (or future PC SSDs), and quite frankly, I don't think so.

Click to shrink...

The SX SSD and whole IO setup is great, and a huge upgrade from anything we have ever had before. MS did a really nice job here, absolutely nothing to complain about.

But in comparison, the PS5's IO feels like it was taken from an IO-focused mid-gen upgrade 4 years from now. It is, very simply, on a whole other level. And yes, that allows for things you can't do on any other platform.

But it's both consoles having a baseline SSD that will allow game design on the whole to advance across platforms, and every game and gamer will benefit from that.

 

[Prine]

Title says PS5/XSX

You've somehow made it all about the PS5. C'mon, man.

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It's his m.o, and has been banned multiple times for it.

 

[Ploid 6.0]

Obviously so, PC had SSD for years, and we just use it for faster loading when it comes to games. it seems like hardware manufacturers are content with the way things are on PC right now. Microsoft (OS) hasn't done much to improve the use of SSDs in games on the OS level, and now that consoles, PS5 specifically, are finding solutions to limit any bottlenecks data transfer may meet.

I can't wait to see what PC get now that this proof of concept exist. These companies better work together to make it happen, but it may require a server industry, or movie industry to benefit before big tech companies work on it, not just pc gaming industry.

 

[Timlot]

No offence thuway, but I'm not looking to bring console wars to the threads, all I want is for the conversation to be more balanced and nuanced than it currently is. What PS5 has done to their storage solution is amazing, but reading these threads it feels like they are the only ones making breakthrough in this category, which is very far from the truth.
XSX will supposedly be using a next gen PCIe 4x4 Phison controller (PS5019-E19T) which has very impressive numbers and is not even on any SSD currently in the market. The console also has other custom chips to maximize storage efficiency such as their hardware decompression chip and some form of hardware support for DirectX's sampler feedback streaming feature. These will greatly enhance the capabilities of the new Xbox's storage solution beyond raw throughput numbers. In addition to hardware, the DirectStorage API will bring additional improvements and efficiency to the pipeline.

Phil Spencer has even stated that the XSX SSDs can be used as virtual ram (source), that's just how fast this storage is.

The point I'm trying to make is that yes, the PS5 team has done some amazing work with their storage solution, but if you take as much time to research what is being proposed in the XSX solution as you have with the PS5 solution, you will soon realize that all the improvements proposed by Sony's PS5 will also be very possible on the next Xbox. What remains to be seen is if the additional performance that the PS5 storage offers will bring anything to the table that is simply not possible with the XSX (or future PC SSDs), and quite frankly, I don't think so.

Click to shrink...

The Velocity Architecture appears to be an efficient group of components MS has come up with to maximize the XSX I/O instead of the brute force approach Sony chose. Similarly I've heard PS5's use of smart shift on their apu is a very efficient way to get balanced performance from their cpu/gpu instead of MS's brute force approach. Interesting

 

[Mathieran]

If all they did was make load screens a thing of the past that would be enough of a game changer for me to be excited. But it sounds like they will do a lot more

 

[DontHateTheBacon]

Honestly, I have no idea. Everyone says it is, but I won't know until I see what newly created, next-gen only games look like and play like.

 

[Decarb]

I'm hazy on Evil Within as I havent played it since release, but I'm almost positive there was nothing like that. I mean happening in moment to moment gameplay and used as a gameplay device. Not a transition through closed doors accompanied by a cutscene.

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A lot of Evil Within's (and especially the sequel) horror is based on hallucinations and rapidly switching scenery, so this tech would be incredible in the hands of those devs.

 

[Lukas Taves]

I'm hazy on Evil Within as I havent played it since release, but I'm almost positive there was nothing like that. I mean happening in moment to moment gameplay and used as a gameplay device. Not a transition through closed doors accompanied by a cutscene.

Click to shrink...

Layers of Fear and Blair Witch both use that concept a lot. I think it's more about how the gameplay device can be expanded rather than just enabling the gameplay device to even exist in this case.

Like we had games even on psone and n64 that have world swapping. But it's usually a filter tint that is applied, a few objects and textures are swapped and that's it (or in the games mentioned above they just reuse the assets to create a new environment). Now we can have the whole world changing to a complete different world, with no scale restrictions.

I'm also very excited to see what the new capacity does in terms of scope. Like that halo reach stage where you are flying the city if a pelican, have to drop into a few buildings and do some objectives. That could be turned into a regular stage in the middle of the city where you can fly pretty much anywhere, see dozens of ongoing battles that you can participate and the mission objectives can be seamless spread in the game world instead of having one limited small area where you can fly and some points that have a corridor where the on foot action must happen. I think we might finally be in a place where such a large scale game is possible combining ssd, a decent cpu, cloud computing...

 

[Hybrid Rainbow]

It's his m.o, and has been banned multiple times for it.

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How is anything he saying controversial? Matt literally just said it himself. SSD in the systems is going to be a paradigm shift regardless, but the SSD in conjunction with the I/O throughput in PS5 is on an entirely different level and will show us things we never thought possible. That's not a fanboy dream, that's reality.

The SX SSD and whole IO setup is great, and a huge upgrade from anything we have ever had before. MS did a really nice job here, absolutely nothing to complain about.

But in comparison, the PS5's IO feels like it was taken from an IO-focused mid-gen upgrade 4 years from now. It is, very simply, on a whole other level. And yes, that allows for things you can't do on any other platform.

But it's both consoles having a baseline SSD that will allow game design on the whole to advance across platforms, and every game and gamer will benefit from that.

Click to shrink...

 

[LuckyLocke]

But in comparison, the PS5's IO feels like it was taken from an IO-focused mid-gen upgrade 4 years from now. It is, very simply, on a whole other level. And yes, that allows for things you can't do on any other platform.

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Please elaborate. I'd be curous to know what is only possible with the PS5 architecture.

 

[DoubleTake]

A lot of Evil Within's (and especially the sequel) horror is based on hallucinations and rapidly switching scenery, so this tech would be incredible in the hands of those devs.

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Oh no doubt! That sort of on-the-fly environmental switching is perfect for Horror games. I feel the impact is even better when it happens in real time gameplay and isnt masked by a loading transition. My mind has been racing for what the Silent Hill reboot will do(if it's real of course).

 

[PJV3]

Yes, i can see some pretty crazy games coming along in future.
I'm just imagining how fast it really is and am i expecting too much, could you have a kart racer where a weapon hits you and instantly shifts you into a micro machines style environment etc? That's kinda 2 different games switching in and out especially if you went top down view for the latter.

 

[Dr Pears]

We need an open world Dr Strange game or Portal 3 with huge levels instead of cramped test chambers.

 

[Pryme]

The SX SSD and whole IO setup is great, and a huge upgrade from anything we have ever had before. MS did a really nice job here, absolutely nothing to complain about.

But in comparison, the PS5's IO feels like it was taken from an IO-focused mid-gen upgrade 4 years from now. It is, very simply, on a whole other level. And yes, that allows for things you can't do on any other platform.

But it's both consoles having a baseline SSD that will allow game design on the whole to advance across platforms, and every game and gamer will benefit from that.

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With all due respect, This thread should have zero 'PS5 vs XSX' discussions in this. It's a general statement in the OP. SSDs in next gen consoles will advance game design as you aptly summarize in Your last paragraph.

Thuway derailed with some console warring. We should not continue in that vein.

 

[Papacheeks]

Please elaborate. I'd be curous to know what is only possible with the PS5 architecture.

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Are you for real? This has been talked about at nauseam.

 

[iksenpets]

Probably? The explanations of what it could do make sense, and devs seem legitimately excited. And if it's not, then I'm not sure what else even would be at this point, because it certainly seems to open up more change than more CPU or GPU power does at this point.

 

[TechMetalRules]

The fact that load times more than a few seconds will be one of those things we eventually look back on and joke about, means there's no way SSDs aren't a game changer.

 

[larryfox]

I really hope it is outside of ways to improve graphics.

 

[DoubleTake]

Layers of Fear and Blair Witch both use that concept a lot. I think it's more about how the gameplay device can be expanded rather than just enabling the gameplay device to even exist in this case.

Like we had games even on psone and n64 that have world swapping. But it's usually a filter tint that is applied, a few objects and textures are swapped and that's it (or in the games mentioned above they just reuse the assets to create a new environment). Now we can have the whole world changing to a complete different world, with no scale restrictions.

I'm also very excited to see what the new capacity does in terms of scope. Like that halo reach stage where you are flying the city if a pelican, have to drop into a few buildings and do some objectives. That could be turned into a regular stage in the middle of the city where you can fly pretty much anywhere, see dozens of ongoing battles that you can participate and the mission objectives can be seamless spread in the game world instead of having one limited small area where you can fly and some points that have a corridor where the on foot action must happen. I think we might finally be in a place where such a large scale game is possible combining ssd, a decent cpu, cloud computing...

Click to shrink...

Very interesting I'll have to check out both of those! But definitely its about how these advancements can impact gameplay. Like you said, once you combine the leaps we're making (esp. CPU and Storage) some really nice possibilities start opening up. Devs are going to really wow people this gen.

Even as someone who mostly stays away from games with massive "scope" I'm excited to see what devs can do now that such a huge bottleneck has been removed. I would honestly be okay with say a 500GB game that simulates an actual small world with varied environments and the like. Just to see if it was possible(probably not). Idk I'm just excited to see where we're headed.

 

[Strike]

Definitely.

 

[larryfox]

I hope so but I doubt it (maybe so from a developer perspective but from a gamer's, no).

At least that Unreal Engine tech demo meant to showcase this "game changing" ability didn't inspire a lot of confidence in that regard. It was shaped like a dime a dozen 3rd person action game featuring the greatest hits of modern game design such as slow walking, pulling control from the player to make the character physically react to something visually impressive, squeezing through a crevice, climbing designated and obviously marked climbing areas, no AI, more slow walking, and ended with the God of War special - impressive stuff in a cutscene that you can't actually do in gameplay, all at a game-changing 1440p* 30fps.

I don't believe game design will be fundamentally changed in any real noticable way. Fast (or non existent) load times will be great though.

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I was disappointed they did it in a cave that was brown tbh. Something more vibrant would've been a lot more impressive.

 

[EagleClaw]

To be honest i wasn't impressed by the demo at all, atleast until the flight sequence, but even then, just brown.
And all that cave squezzing, wall climbing, wheel turning to open doors ... well, i'm happy they don't design a next gen game.
Can't wait for the reveal of real next gen games.

 

[TCG276]

Multiplatform developers will still be making games to address the widest possible market, and that includes last gen consoles and PCs.

Microsoft first party is the same, their target is ~Xbox One X +/- 50%

Sony first party are the only ones who would be able to do anything especially wild, and that's a very small slice of the industry.

Maybe in a decade it will be looked back on as an inflection point, but I think any immediate impacts will be very small.

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this!

 

[Jiraiya]

The SX SSD and whole IO setup is great, and a huge upgrade from anything we have ever had before. MS did a really nice job here, absolutely nothing to complain about.

But in comparison, the PS5's IO feels like it was taken from an IO-focused mid-gen upgrade 4 years from now. It is, very simply, on a whole other level. And yes, that allows for things you can't do on any other platform.

But it's both consoles having a baseline SSD that will allow game design on the whole to advance across platforms, and every game and gamer will benefit from that.

Click to shrink...

Can you state how big of an impact the ssds have on animation streaming? Just in general.