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Thread title

  • They take too long. I'd be willing to sacrifice some fidelity for shorter cycles

    Votes: 457 56.4%
  • I am fine with where they are right now in terms of length

    Votes: 195 24.1%
  • They need to take longer! Some of these games barely work on release.

    Votes: 158 19.5%

  • Total voters
    810

Jonathan Lanza

"I've made a Gigantic mistake"
Member
Feb 8, 2019
6,784
Let me prephase this by saying that this isn't supposed to be whining thread, nobody should be rushed to complete anything. This is more about general workflow.

So it's no secret that video games take a while to make, there's tons of moving parts handled by all sorts of people often of different professions and it's a miracle that they get made at all. Over the years, new elaborate tools have been developed to help ease the burden of development for developers, especially those of smaller sizes but at the same time it seems that the demand for higher graphic fidelity ends up offsetting this in a lot of cases and we end up in a position where games as a whole seem to be taking longer and longer to make.

At first glance this doesn't seem like much of an issue, there's plenty of games to play after all but I think there's 2 issues with potentially long development cycles.

1. Time is money and when you've got tons of money invested into a game being developed over a long period of time there is a lot less room for freedom and immense pressure to recoup costs. You might think this only concerns AAA games but even those Indie games that seem to be taking 10 years to make (I'm sure you can think of at least one) run into this issue.

2. This one kinda leeches off the first point but I think it becomes very easy to lose enthusiasm for certain games and franchise when the gap between releases is too big depending what you want from the game. Let's look at Final Fantasy XVI as an example. This game looks really good, I have almost no doubt that it is going to be at worst a decent game which is a pretty high achievement for anything really. But if you came to a new mainline Final Fantasy game hoping to see some black main characters or hell even coloured characters at all...
ffxvi.jpg

.... you'll find that you're for the most part a bit out of luck. The part that stings though is that considering how long these mainline Final Fantasy games take to make, you're not just out of luck but you're out of luck for potentially the next decade. Then when that new game gets announced MAYBE it'll be more to your taste. Maybe it'll have some more POC characters, maybe it'll be crazy Final Fantasy sci-fi that you love..........or maybe it won't and you'll be back at square one. When release gaps are shorter then the occasional game that doesn't quite satisfy you is an easy hit to take since after all it won't be too long before something new comes along and maybe that'll suit you more. But when gaps get too huge it can feel like all your hopes and dreams are riding on that next release and if it doesn't reach it then it's easy to just end up disregarding the whole series even though technically speaking it's only been one game.


Anyway, do you think development cycles are too long these days? If so would you be willing to take the visual hit for more timely releases?
 

BassForever

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,915
CT
I stand by that Sonic meme image of "I want shorter games that look worse made by people who are paid more to work less hours and I'm not joking".
 

Deleted member 129418

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 26, 2022
3,717
Honestly don't mind how long they take, feel like we still get enough games nowadays. A lot of large studios should definitely have other teams to experiment with smaller games tho
 

cvbas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,164
Brazil
Yes, and I think the industry would be a much healthier place for everyone if games were smaller, less obsessed with visual fidelity and had shorter dev cycles.
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,305
As long as developer health is prioritized above everything else, I don't mind waiting for games. There are so many projects from so many teams releasing at all times anyway that we're never in a drought for fresh experiences.
 

SteveWinwood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,674
USA USA USA
I don't really play that many AAA games nowadays. There are so many indies I just hear about when they come out and play them. I couldn't tell you what's coming out this year so I don't know how long anything takes. Just ignore the multi year marketing.
 
Apr 2, 2021
2,080
Remember when you would get a great game, and then less than two years later get an even bigger and better sequel, and then after like 5 years the dev could move on to a new franchise where they took what they learned and did something new and cool with it? Now you need to wait 5 years for incremental improvements, and there are no new franchises lol.
 

Greywaren

Member
Jul 16, 2019
9,900
Spain
Yes. I'd happily take shorter, smaller games. Not every game needs to be a massive, super complex, highly detailed work.
 

PspLikeANut

Free
Member
May 20, 2018
2,598
No… I always have something new to play each year. That's a testament to how big the gaming industry has grown through the years.
 

Raigor

Member
May 14, 2020
15,132
if you want high end graphics, hours of content and VA yes they take too long to make.
 

Kahhhhyle

Member
Jun 8, 2021
2,170
Take your fancy lighting, water, wind, and hair effects and toss them out the window. I'd be perfectly content with 7th gen fidelity at smooth framerates.
 

theSoularian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,247
I don't think indie games are totally immune to long dev cycles either. I guess it depends on their ambitions and staff.
 

Doctor_Thomas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,648
Takes as long as it takes.

Fidelity goes up, then time goes up.

I'd honestly prefer development cycles were longer so there was no crunch or "suggested" overtime.
 

Zuly

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,180
Puerto Rico
Probably but there's so many great games out there, that it doesn't bother me. I don't have time to play them all anyway.
 

EJS

The Fallen - Self Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
9,176
I can't imagine how arduous the task of fleshing out a script that meets an arbitrary number of hours can be - and I am not even counting all of the work that comes after that. The concept of making an entire game seems so laborious and - thinking about it, I am amazed at how quickly some teams can get their work shipped.
 

inpHilltr8r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,241
I don't feel like I need more games incoming. There's more than I could reasonable play already. Unless I did something dumb like artificially restrict myself to a dead or dying niche, I have nothing to complain about on that front.
 

Folie

Member
Dec 16, 2017
634
Way too long, and especially for larger studios those long periods of time = massive cost, which in turn leads to publishers being more risk averse and prioritising 'mainstream'/proven successful genres, mechanics, stories etc. for what they fund and want from devs, to go after safer investments.

Feels like we're approaching a tipping point for non-live service AAA, there is going to come a point (if not already) where the increasing dev cycles just can't increase anymore to remain feasible, both from a cost POV and the workforce having the appetite to create them.

Edit - Just for clarity, not saying too long because I want games sooner, but the length of dev for AAA (and subsequent cost) is one of the primary factors in limiting creative risks taken.
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
I don't mind, too many games to play but I don't like early teases although I understand it helps with recruitment and hype but maybe they should forgo teases and just describe the basic idea and take us along for the journey a little here and there, I like studio tours and behind the scenes production.
 

Ashes of Dreams

Unshakable Resolve
Member
May 22, 2020
14,329
Yeah. I miss the PS1 and PS2 era where the things I like got new entries consistently.

Some games need to take a long time, I get it, and I wouldn't want those games to all go away. But I also wish we could go back. I want the AA scene to blow up.
 

Wrexis

Member
Nov 4, 2017
21,229
Yes, though I'm encouraged that a lot of games seem to be hitting 3 years marks though.

Stop with the 5 year games though, seriously (GOWR).

I know the days of getting FF9, FF10, and FF11 within a year are gone but like, I'm in my late 30s...
If each FF game is going to take 5 years that means I've got just a couple left in my lifetime left lol.
 
Apr 2, 2021
2,080
I always thought that content was the problem, not much how the games look.
I've heard a bunch of stuff suggesting otherwise. A good example would be an interview with Raphael Colantonio where he was talking about how when making Arx Fatalis if he needed a chair one of the 3 person team could create one in about a day or two. On Prey (2017) completing a chair would take multiple artists working together about a month. When you could just lay a simple wood texture over a couple of cubes you could get a lot more done, and I imagine this would help ideas flow too since if a designer had an gameplay idea they needed a type an asset for they could probably get it in a couple days, and if it didn't end up making it into the final product that wouldn't be a big deal since it didn't take too long.
 

Folie

Member
Dec 16, 2017
634
On the idea of reducing dev time, I've always wondered about the viability of having an outsourcing company specialising in game mechanics.

There's a lot of outsourcing that goes on already in AAA dev, but could you for example have a business, specialised in something ubiquitous like UE5, that develops and has a bank of things like vehicle handling (/car physic models), gunplay, platforming etc, ready to be plugged into a project. Obviously one of the main concerns would be would that lead to games feeling the same, but for business viability you'd have to plan for that, i.e. have models with lots of easily tweaked variables, be able to work to spec etc.
 

Hotbug

Member
Dec 3, 2020
1,500
Dragon Age Inquisition came out in 2014 and there is no release date for Dreadwolf yet.
Skyrim came out in 2011.*

Other than those two specific series though I've never felt particularly flustered by dev times.

*I looked at the Elder Scrolls MMO and despite knowing nothing of its quality preemptively decided it's not real ES and never played it. Meanwhile, I play Final Fantasy XIV every day. So I'm not sure this second complaint is even valid. My only other thought is that sidequests tend to be the strongest part of single-player Elder Scrolls, and MMO sidequests tend to not be so great.
 

Silent

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
2,433
I do think games take too long to make, but at the same time I never have a shortage of games to play. It only really sucks if you're a big fan of a specific franchise. I definitely miss the shorter waits between Zelda games in the past. I think visual fidelity has a lot to do with the bigger budgets and longer development times. I was playing through Final Fantasy VII Remake, and I was amazed at the level of detail in the environment. I wondered how much of it can be considered a waste. I'm no artist so I don't know if it's as simple as painting a swath of texture across objects, but I just imagine an artist painstakingly placing every bit of debris that can be easily ignored by the player.
 

Wulfram

Member
Mar 3, 2018
1,478
I'd like to see more asset re-use and quick sequels that build simply on the basis of the previous game
 

DinosaurJerky

Member
Nov 19, 2022
818
I can't remember the last time I was bothered by a game taking too long. If you have interests outside of games and ignore the corporate hype cycle, you also save yourself disappointment about changes from the announcement as well as the time wasted on pointless analysis and speculation. Pre-release marketing isn't for the benefit of consumers.
 

Wulfram

Member
Mar 3, 2018
1,478
I can't remember the last time I was bothered by a game taking too long. If you have interests outside of games and ignore the corporate hype cycle, you also save yourself disappointment about changes from the announcement as well as the time wasted on pointless analysis and speculation. Pre-release marketing isn't for the benefit of consumers.

I mean, if there's an ongoing story its nice if the players can still remember who the bald elf guy is
 

CielTynave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,222
Yes and it sucks. I wish we were still getting a mainline Tales game every other year (which itself was less frequent than the PS2 days where we got three mainline games in one year), at least if one was a miss for me it wouldn't be too long before the next which had a pretty good chance of being better (i.e. Xillia to Xilla 2 and Zestiria to Berseria). Now at 4-5 years between games if one is a miss (Arise) that just kind of kills any sort of hype I could have for the next knowing it's going to be so long.
 

Biske

Member
Nov 11, 2017
8,255
Eh, at this point I have so many games, books, movies and TV shows that I havent played or read or watched, games can take longer. Take a longer time folks, dont work so hard, enjoy yourselves, enjoy your family and your life. We can all get around to it.
 

Vexii

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,385
UK
If games could stop being longer than 8 hours, take way less time to develop and double Dev pay, that would be great.

Except for RGG Studio. Pay the devs more but also get an exclusive license to create stupidly long games still.
 

Crumrin

Banned
Feb 27, 2020
2,270
Production times are indeed getting longer but it's not something that bothers me, I feel like the industry has become so vast, prolific, and accessible that you always have something new and cool to play while waiting for that particular game. Let devs do their thing, no pressure.
 

DinosaurJerky

Member
Nov 19, 2022
818
I mean, if there's an ongoing story its nice if the players can still remember who the bald elf guy is
If we're talking about a AAA franchise, I guarantee you there are 54354397 YouTube videos that will have you covered in the event that the game doesn't provide some sort of recap.

This has been happening with narrative fiction for centuries at this point. People have found a way to cope.
 
Oct 27, 2017
20,755
I don't think it will stop but yes, I'd love for it to be closer to ps1 ps2 gen length

Less content is fine so long as the core experience is great. First games don't need to go as hard visually and by the time second or third games come out from studios during the same gen they'd learned stuff to improve visuals each time

But sadly we never will get this and companies will find ways to make developers lives hard even if they all pivoted to 2-3 year cycles
 

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
23,611
I'm fine with games taking longer to come out especially if it means no crunch.
 

slothrop

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Aug 28, 2019
3,875
USA
I don't really get the question. As an outsider they just take as long as they take. What do I care how long it takes? I'm not doing the work. If a game is not out I have plenty of other things in my life to do.

If I were in the industry I might be trying to find inefficiencies and workflow improvements. Obviously everyone working on any project would like it to take less time in general. I don't know enough to comment on project management processes within gaming companies though nor what operational areas could even be improved on.
 

Atolm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,826
I really don't mind. Take as long as you need.

What bothers me is announcing something and then go radio silent for 7 years. Looking at you, Atlus...also looking slightly at Cygames
 

Genesius

Member
Nov 2, 2018
15,478
100%

It is beyond ludicrous that some companies will put one game per generation/decade.

Stop chasing making everything a goddamn movie. Don't crunch, change the scope of your project.