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Nirolak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,660
So someone asked me the other day if I thought Ivy would have larger or smaller breasts in Soul Calibur 6 given trends in the gaming industry, and I thought it was kind of an interesting question.

Scenario 1: On the one hand, taste and expectations in the Western markets have clearly went toward a very different place since Soul Calibur last came out. Back in those days, women were widely wearing things like chainmail bikinis and got pretty muted, if any, criticism. Soul Calibur was actually notable for being one of the few franchises that had any notable pushback on this topic at all. Today, a design like Soul Calibur 4 Ivy would probably elicit a notably negative response in the West, and most of the game's sales (like 90%+) would presumably be overseas.

Scenario 2: On the other hand, Japan has generally headed more in this direction, and this is the cultural context under which this game would be getting developed. For better or worse, these types of designs arguably became the primary identity of the series over time as well. It's not hard to imagine a scenario where they might make the designs even more extreme.

Mind, there are two approaches developers have taken to reining in designs, one being the amount of clothing characters are wearing, with the other being the proportions of the people, so either (or both) of those aspects could change.

So, what do you think Namco is likely to do if they're actually making the game?

Edit:

I thought I should note this is not just about Ivy, but the characters on that end of the spectrum in general.

Update:

Anyone who guessed "Scenario 2: Namco will follow Japanese game trends and make Ivy even more extreme." was correct. Congratulations to those who correctly foresaw Namco's business direction. I'm leaving the image off since it's uh, rather not safe for work, and that's before we've even seen any armor destruction.
 
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Aokiji

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,265
Los Angeles
I think they'd cover her more. As for proportions, i'd assume her & Taki will remain looking like they have no business fighting
 

Abriael

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,605
Milano - Italy
Not likely, and they shouldn't.

Diversity is a good thing, even when it comes to design culture. Japanese designers should do their thing, instead of bowing to western expectations and conforming to western ideas. Games like NieR: Automata clearly show that's the best (and most successful) path.

Also, if Tekken 7 is any indication, Bandai Namco isn't certainly too eager to clamp down on its designers' style, which is good.
 

Kyari

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,846
I doubt it, she gets bustier in every game. There's really nothing to suggest that this is something Namco finds to be a concern.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
SC6 might just end up being a reboot, so all the characters would get redesigned. Sophitia and Ivy have been getting more and more ridiculous so using this as a chance to reign them in would be the most likely approach.

at the same time, for all the criticism, I dont think it would affect the sales. the fact that it's a fighting game would do so. yea Bamco shipped 2M units, but I dont think they even sold through all of that (my Toys R Us is still getting Day 1 copies in).
 

Alienous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,597
zQvNJ2q.jpg


I'd expect something similar to Soul Calibur V, proportions and all.
 

Amaterasu

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,310
No, and they shouldn't worry about it. Just because some people are vocal about busty or sexy characters doesn't mean there are more of them than people that don't care or enjoy them.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
Not likely, and they shouldn't.

Diversity is a good thing, even when it comes to design culture. Japanese designers should do their thing, instead of bowing to western expectations. Games like NieR: Automata clearly show that's the best (and most successful) path.

Also, if Tekken 7 is any indication, Bandai Namco isn't certainly too eager to clamp down on its designers' style, which is good.
2B is pretty conservative in comparison to the designs I've seen people (including myself) get up in arms about. I'm not sure if that's a good example as she's more of a case of reaching a good middle ground
 

GinoFelino

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,234
No, and they shouldn't worry about it. Just because some people are vocal about busty or sexy characters doesn't mean there are more of them than people that don't care or enjoy them.
It's not the busty or sexy aspect people disagree with, it's the ridiculousness of the outfits and the blatant pandering
 

Abriael

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,605
Milano - Italy
2B is pretty conservative in comparison to the designs I've seen people (including myself) get up in arms about. I'm not sure if that's a good example as she's more of a case of reaching a good middle ground

A character who self-destructs just to show her booty better, and gives a panty shot every time you tilt the camera by two degrees? There's nothing conservative in 2B's design, and openly so.

"But the biggest reason is that I just really like girls." - Yoko Taro
 

Deleted member 5593

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,635
If people thought Ivy was bad.... You guys don't even know the shit they pulled with SC: Lost Swords. Namco trumps even Dead or Alive & MGSV when it comes to misogynistic outfits.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,039
Not likely, and they shouldn't.

Diversity is a good thing, even when it comes to design culture. Japanese designers should do their thing, instead of bowing to western expectations and conforming to western ideas. Games like NieR: Automata clearly show that's the best (and most successful) path.

Also, if Tekken 7 is any indication, Bandai Namco isn't certainly too eager to clamp down on its designers' style, which is good.
2B has a great design. Ivy has a garbage design.

Just cuz it's from Japan doesn't mean it's automatically good, and if something's not good it should be improved.
 

batrush

Member
Nov 4, 2017
214
lmao it's namco

and no, they shouldn't care about the folks that would cry over bustier/sexier designs and "pandering".
 

Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
20,513
Probably not. They know their existing audience would throw a shit fit if they tried.

2B is pretty conservative in comparison to the designs I've seen people (including myself) get up in arms about. I'm not sure if that's a good example as she's more of a case of reaching a good middle ground
2B is nowhere near a good middle ground.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
A character who self-destructs just to show her booty better, and gives a panty shot every time you tilt the camera by two degrees? There's nothing conservative in 2B's design, and openly so.
and still much more conservative than some outfits I've seen. and with all the advertisement focused on her standard dress, most people glancing at the game wouldnt even see the self-destruct stuff

2B is nowhere near a good middle ground.
"middle ground" is probably a bad way to phrase it. but I mean having a design that's titillating while not drawing as much ire. in the run up for Nier (and post launch), there definitely hasnt been as much heat as there has been for characters like Quiet in MGS5 and Pyra in Xenoblade 2
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
If they want to bring the character more up to date, then they should tone it down. That design did originate from a time where tits where kind of busting out everywhere.

latest

It was almost like a competition.
latest


The character could still have big boobs and a slinky outfit but it's not like you're trying to out-do others in the perviness these days. Just dial it back a bit would be refreshing for the series.
 

Dark Ninja

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,070
Yeah she'll be covered up going off of Tekken 7. Even the bikini/swimsuits are awful maybe its the customization clothing in Tekken 7 that brings them down.
 

Zeno

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,150
I only played Soul Calibur 2, but I always found Taki more explicit. Did any of the future games change in response that a rated 'T' game basically had a female character with practically exposed nipples?
 

Amaterasu

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,310
If every woman was like Ivy in the game i would agree it was a problem, but I don't mind overly ridiculous characters like her.
 

SENPAIatLARGE

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,501
Soulcalibur fans and FGC enthusiasts are used to Ivy's design an plenty wouldn't mind it getting sexier. Sexy costumes increase sales an interest in fighting games and SC6 would undoubtedly sell well in the West.
 

Terraforce

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
18,910
Most definitely. At least they'll give her the Katana/Mileena treatment Netherrealm did in MKX.
 

Iucidium

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,040
So someone asked me the other day of o thought Ivy would have larger or smaller breasts in Soul Calibur 6 given trends in the gaming industry, and I thought it was kind of an interesting question.

On the one hand, taste and expectations in the Western markets have clearly went toward a very different place since Soul Calibur last came out. Back in those days, women were widely wearing things like chainmail bikinis and got pretty muted, if any, criticism. Soul Calibur was actually notable for being one of the few franchises that had any notable pushback on this topic at all. Today, a design like Soul Calibur 4 Ivy would probably elicit a notably negative response in the West, and most of the game's sales (like 90%+) would presumably be overseas.

On the other hand, Japan has generally headed more in this direction, and this is the cultural context under which this game would be getting developed. For better or worse, these types of designs arguably became the primary identity of the series over time as well. It's not hard to imagine a scenario where they might make the designs even more extreme.

Mind, there are two approaches developers have taken to reining in designs, one being the amount of clothing characters are wearing, with the other being the proportions of the people, so either (or both) of those aspects could change.

So, what do you think Namco is likely to do if they're actually making the game?
As long as they give Ivy the SCII move set, I don't care.
 

Superking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,619
Speaking totally selfishly, I hope they don't tone down Ivy's hotness. It's one of the few reasons I follow the SC franchise. Beautiful women should be appreciated, not scorned, imo.
 

MajorBritten

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
1,080
No, they will probably go the opposite direction to have the game stand out more and get more attention. Hasnt harmed the sales of games like Dead or Alive or Senran Kagura so probably wouldnt have an effect on Soul Calibur.
 

Deleted member 9486

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,867
I doubt it. Look at a lot of SFV characters like Laura and their costumes.

Heavily sexualized characters are just part of the appeal for a lot of fighting game fans and have been for ages. I don't think social changes will impact that as fighting games are pretty niche and will cater to their base.
 

GinoFelino

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,234
Yep. Many of the people complaining about these designs aren't even buying these games in the first place so why should designers and artists listen to those who do not actually patronize their work?
Soul Calibur is one of the greatest fighting games ever made. You can take your jiggle factory elsewhere, thank you
Something wrong with that? I certainly don't mind.
There's plenty of games specifically designed to suit that need. It doesn't need to be in mechanically legit fighting games.
Just make her a giant set of boobs with some arms and legs
Basically her design already
 

HockeyBird

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,584
No, Japan don't care. It's still pretty obvious that titillating designs are a draw for much of the fighting game fanbase.
 

R3birthFl4me

Member
Oct 27, 2017
191
To be honest I don't care if she's covered or uncovered and has big or small breasts, I just want her to have her cool moves with that chain whip, sometimes I think I'm one of the only people that just enjoys her moveset.
 

Deleted member 5593

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,635
Yep. Many of the people complaining about these designs aren't even buying these games in the first place so why should designers and artists listen to those who do not actually patronize their work?

And this is a load of bullshit. I would still be playing Dead or Alive if they didn't abandon their "I'm a Fighter" motto for its Vanilla release and then just turn the game into a fetish fulfillment simulator. Same thing about games like Arcana Heart with interesting mechanics but no way in hell am I touching that pedophilia nonsense.
 
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OP
Nirolak

Nirolak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,660
So, from Namco:

Sexy character (game made for Japan):

pxz2_godeater27vryv.jpg


Sexy character (game made for the West by the same team):

Code-Vein_09-28-17_001.jpg


I do feel there are some signs of changes here.
 

Opa-Pa

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,810
I expect a more tasteful outfit and slightly more grounded proportions at best, but nothing as ridiculous as SC2, that's for sure.

DLC costumes though? That's a different story.

A character who self-destructs just to show her booty better, and gives a panty shot every time you tilt the camera by two degrees? There's nothing conservative in 2B's design, and openly so.

"But the biggest reason is that I just really like girls." - Yoko Taro
I get what you mean but that has more to do with the intent behind her design and the way the game treats her more than the design itself. Hers still isn't comparable to Ivy's, and I don't like 2B's design much to begin with.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
Honestly, they probably should tone her down, just as far as taste is concerned. She's always been one of the more ridiculously sexualized designs in gaming, to the point of absurdity. I don't think her proportions would change, but a less revealing outfit would be likely, and would be a good change.

Not saying it will happen, just that there are plenty of good reasons for it to happen.
 
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