Honestly as long as personal attack's aren't levied by either side have at it. Demonization serves no purpose.
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Do you think we should allow for more Conservative and Center political voices to be heard?
- Thread starter TheStrxggler
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I am already disappointed by the responses of a lot of people here. This is supposed to be a reset, but if people are going to openly disregard both centrists and right wingers offhand, then why bother with political debate at all?
Maybe, and this is just a suggestion, create an internal forum just for politics. Because having it mixed in with the new season of Stranger Things and your album of the year just makes it a hard place to have fun and keep it nice.
Have one area where politics or controversial news stories go. If people choose to participate, then that is fantastic, they know what they are getting into. As is, threads like this will drive people away, even if the OP has the best of intentions, put it somewhere else where those that will often have differing opinions, can go to an area where they can express them, and not ruin the fun for the rest of us.
Maybe, and this is just a suggestion, create an internal forum just for politics. Because having it mixed in with the new season of Stranger Things and your album of the year just makes it a hard place to have fun and keep it nice.
Have one area where politics or controversial news stories go. If people choose to participate, then that is fantastic, they know what they are getting into. As is, threads like this will drive people away, even if the OP has the best of intentions, put it somewhere else where those that will often have differing opinions, can go to an area where they can express them, and not ruin the fun for the rest of us.
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I'm pretty libertarian, so yeah, I think so. As long as they don't violate the NAP (non-aggression principle), I'm fine with them speaking their opinion.
Opinions differ. Facts don't.
If they can base their arguments on the reality that exists, whatever. But I rarely see good arguments in good faith based on facts from conservative viewpoints.
If they can base their arguments on the reality that exists, whatever. But I rarely see good arguments in good faith based on facts from conservative viewpoints.
Well, firstly, there are more political viewpoints than centrist, right, and left. That idea that you can collapse all political discussion into three viewpoints is ridiculous. Two people on the left of the spectrum can and do still have useful political dialogue. Secondly, there are plenty of people here willing to hear from sincere folks of any political persuasion.
Also, since you may be a new member, we have a thread especially for suggestions about the forum. That'd probably be a more useful place in which to give advice to the moderation and admin team.
I think the real question are really;
How should we respond to others with drastically different political views than ours?
How do we mediate these topics in a respectful manner?
How do we engage in worthwhile conversations that lead to substance, rather than subsistence?
That particular forum is just as active as the other forums, and certainly seems to solicit quite some interesting discussion, although, I do feel the forums that I have seen this at do seem to struggle a bit when it comes to moderating the section.
However, the people who moderate that section will really have to be on their game as well, as even if we want to believe the section might be civil, it'll always have a chance to get out of hand.
Definitely some food for thought.
How should we respond to others with drastically different political views than ours?
How do we mediate these topics in a respectful manner?
How do we engage in worthwhile conversations that lead to substance, rather than subsistence?
I actually like this idea, as I've seen this done on other forums, and seems to be fairly successful.
That particular forum is just as active as the other forums, and certainly seems to solicit quite some interesting discussion, although, I do feel the forums that I have seen this at do seem to struggle a bit when it comes to moderating the section.
However, the people who moderate that section will really have to be on their game as well, as even if we want to believe the section might be civil, it'll always have a chance to get out of hand.
Definitely some food for thought.
There was place for discussion between the economic right and left depending on the thread.
Sometimes you just have a thread full of 'x' supporters and then it's better to just back off for your own mental well being. Your time here should be fun, not frustrating.
Sometimes you just have a thread full of 'x' supporters and then it's better to just back off for your own mental well being. Your time here should be fun, not frustrating.
I think the problem is that it's quite possible that more are racists than you might think. The conservative talking point is pretty much all racist. You can exclude tax policies. Healthcare has racist undertones (probably more than undertones), immigration policies are WOW, not even subtle. You know Obama had no problem enacting some harsh immigration policies without being racist (he deported more people than any other president, right?). The conservative message today is MAGA and kick all the bad dudes out. Maybe 10 years ago you didn't have these kind of messages in the MAINSTREAM conservative party, but today you do. So perhaps there are conservatives who don't agree with building a wall, but I'd say they are the minority of that group. If I was a conservative before the election, Trump would make me an independent or democrat, and that's my opinion.
So while conservatives obviously have a right to be heard, doesn't mean people want to hear it today. I'm happy to discuss tax policies and other conservative points, but arguing about whether we should build a wall or not goes downhill fast.
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And to clarify my opinion: Center political voices YES no problem. Conservative voices OK... maybe, depends.
look at the current "Anyone here vote for Trump" thread lol, the OP in there said illegal immigrants coming into the USA are murderers and rapists, like g'damn.
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I dislike that the thread title immediately begins the discussion presupposing a thing that is demonstrably false, that conservative voices are being restricted in some way.
I'm cool with whatever. Just don't use your political opinions, religious dogma, or other unverifiable claims to restrict the freedoms of human beings.
It really shouldn't be that hard.
It really shouldn't be that hard.
I think it's also not bad to have these types of discussions within the thread too.
He/she should definitely bring it up there too, but I've read through some other threads not in the suggestion thread that had been started, but mods have also read the feedback, and responded to the suggestions within those threads even, so not always a terrible thing to talk about this in the thread itself.
It could also be useful to explore perspectives from people within the thread that already are interested in providing input into the topic, while the suggestion thread may not spur as much feedback, which could be helpful for mods/admins to take a closer look at.
I agree, but at least a few posts in this thread do not agree with you. And it is enough posts in this young thread that it already feels toxic. So give politics its own spot in this new place, and people can enjoy what we share in common in this new Off Topic, and have a separate place for people to discuss topics that are divisive.
Of course. Conservative voices SHOULD be heard.
But Nazi-sympathizer pedophilia-advocate voices like Milo? I think not. But it is not my decision.
But Nazi-sympathizer pedophilia-advocate voices like Milo? I think not. But it is not my decision.
For the longest time i thought i was liberal hard left , started a course in Political Coms , turns out i'm more centre left after i was asked to talk about my ideals and world views. Would love to converse more about it if a OT exists on it.
I have no major problem with centrism (it's not a "both sides" rhetoric as ideology, at least in Germany and many other European countries from my own experiences), the U.S Democrats in terms of the general political spectrum is a centrist party platform too, although I do disagree with many elements of economic ideology in centrism. Centre-left and centre-right parties have been in ruling governments a lot in Europe.
In terms of a European context, the view on the EU is centrist really, when you start going past centre-left and centre-right you will see a lot of push back from left and right who are both anti-EU. You see a lot of cross over hear, both far-left and far-right will mention globalism in context of opposition to the EU. Pro-EU as a subject itself is a conservative view, but it's not restricted to any particular part of the spectrum as a view.
The major issue I have with conservatism is when when it conflicts with rights and dignity, however there are things that are conservative such as how Sundays are perceived in Germany and many other European countries and that is rooted in Christianity (i.e like mini sabbaticals) and how public life (except for really major cities like Berlin) change on Sundays. I think it's ridiculous but it's a conservative tradition that I don't think is harmful. It's that sort of conservatism I think is okay even though I think it's stupid.
However any conservatism ideology that impedes on rights and dignity of others, such as some religious conservatism that is anti-LGBTQ for example that wants to deny and erode rights is conservatism I disagree with entirely and shouldn't be given an inch in any sort of compromise. For me my views on what I think about conservative subjects varies on its subject matter and impact.
In terms of a European context, the view on the EU is centrist really, when you start going past centre-left and centre-right you will see a lot of push back from left and right who are both anti-EU. You see a lot of cross over hear, both far-left and far-right will mention globalism in context of opposition to the EU. Pro-EU as a subject itself is a conservative view, but it's not restricted to any particular part of the spectrum as a view.
The major issue I have with conservatism is when when it conflicts with rights and dignity, however there are things that are conservative such as how Sundays are perceived in Germany and many other European countries and that is rooted in Christianity (i.e like mini sabbaticals) and how public life (except for really major cities like Berlin) change on Sundays. I think it's ridiculous but it's a conservative tradition that I don't think is harmful. It's that sort of conservatism I think is okay even though I think it's stupid.
However any conservatism ideology that impedes on rights and dignity of others, such as some religious conservatism that is anti-LGBTQ for example that wants to deny and erode rights is conservatism I disagree with entirely and shouldn't be given an inch in any sort of compromise. For me my views on what I think about conservative subjects varies on its subject matter and impact.
I agree that people should be able to argue why they support the things they do, but to expect people to have to provide answers and evidence for anything they say is not a standard of proof that liberals are typically held to here or on the old site.
Full disclosure: libertarian with left leaning social tendencies here. Not an anarchist libertarian who thinks that the government should literally disappear and that we would build private roads and should legalize all drugs. I hate Trump and everything he stands for. I didn't vote because it didn't matter (Texas) but I would habe voted for Johnson.
Share some quotes? All I've seen so far are statements saying (myself included) are stating the virtue of arguing opposing viewpoints is accepted, its just that there exists an inherent bias of doubt when it comes to looking upon contemporary conservatism (within the realm of US politics). And can you really blame that bias? After all, time and time again popular conservative talking points are eventually broken down to the root of being offensive in the premise.
The political threads would be boring self reinforcing bubbles ruled by mob rule if not so yes. Its not black and white though some want it to be that way (in both camps).
It's important to understand why people have the views they do. Let's face it, a lot of people with "backwards" views aren't purposefully "evil" for lack of a better word. So engaging in healthy debate is important.
The problem is people are lumping the two or three or four. Because some fascists identify with a certain group, people dismiss said group of people in passive aggressive or simply straight up aggressive posts.
I mean do all liberals claim ELF, or PETA, or terrorist groups, or Communisim.
I know that is not the case, and I do not lump every left winger with every fringe group that exists. It is unreasonable to lump centrists, conservatives, Republicans, and capitalists into the crazy far right and all of these evil fuckers who are grasping to belong somewhere.
I mean do all liberals claim ELF, or PETA, or terrorist groups, or Communisim.
I know that is not the case, and I do not lump every left winger with every fringe group that exists. It is unreasonable to lump centrists, conservatives, Republicans, and capitalists into the crazy far right and all of these evil fuckers who are grasping to belong somewhere.
I think everyone has a right to speak up and a right to be heard.
Just the same, the rest of us have the right to not pay attention if we so choose. :)
Just the same, the rest of us have the right to not pay attention if we so choose. :)
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Civil discourse is more than welcome here at ResetEra. If you feel that the staff here is not moderating these forums in an even-handed way, please pm a moderator or an admin.
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