Do you want skill runes to return in Diablo 4?

[Doober]

This can be a general wishlist thread too but I wanted to start with discussing skill runes. Were they better than skill trees and synergies?

Personally I fucking loved D2's synergy system. Hell I wouldn't even mind if skill trees and permanent point allocation made a comeback. With trees you didn't just have one character class but three, depending on your specific specialty.

Plus I grew to hate how repetitive and uninspired most rune modifiers were.

And for god sakes, minions need to be nerfed. They're practically invincible in D3 and can quickly overwhelm any enemy swarm that gets thrown at you. I love summoners but in D3 they're an insta-win class.

 

[Tuorom]

What about skill modifiers and a skill tree?

I always thought being able to mod a skill to have sometimes a different function was really cool.

 

[super-famicom]

I appreciated that you could just equip and unequip the runes whenever you felt like them, to test out new builds. Having to create multiple Sorcs in D2 was kinda a drag after a while. And that still exists in D3, albeit with Seasons now, which I actually enjoyed doing.

 

[Nairume]

I either want it to iterate on D3 or do something new.

 

[WellbornWarrior]

I think people have other concerns regarding this game now but anyway.

I would want them to keep the runes but have them as complex and expansive as the skills were in Diablo 2.

 

[DevilMayGuy]

I thought it was pretty cool

 

[TheGhost]

I just want a huge skill tree, did not like the set up in d3

 

[castaction]

Rune werent bad but i prefer a skill tree

 

[jotun?]

D2 necromancer was as much of an insta-win class as anything in D3. Specced properly, skeletons would only die to bosses, and revives were basically unkillable. They were the only class that I thought could easily clear all difficulties without twinking or trading for better gear.

I didn't particularly care for D2's synergy system. They added it with the intent that people would spread their points around to more skills, but the result was that everyone effectively was able to stack even more points toward single skills. I thought D3 was better in that regard because you would actually use several different active skills, vs D2 where you'd just spam a single one that your whole build was focused on.

As for whether skills should be permanent or not, I'm torn. I appreciate that permanent skills and stat points give your character more of an identity, but I also really like being able to adjust things without needing to build a whole new character. I guess overall I prefer the D3 way. You still usually can't just fully respec on a whim because your skill choices need to fit the gear that you have

 

[Smurf]

I want runewords back.

 

[Slim]

I prefer skill runes as it's more convenient.

 

[thomasmahler]

If you ask me, they need to completely rework the formula. I mean everything.

 

[Arkeband]

They should make a sequel to Diablo 2 instead of a Gauntlet clone or whatever the fuck Diablo 3 was.

 

[kmfdmpig]

If Blizzard ever makes things right regarding HK/China then I'd like to see a more robust skill tree, as others have mentioned.

 

[Deleted member 49438]

If you ask me, they need to completely rework the formula. I mean everything.

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Agreed. Diablo 3 was my first Diablo game and the whole skill system kind of sucked. Only being able to use like 6 skills at a time felt super limiting. I guess it had to do with making sure there aren't too many skills for a controller setup to be able to use them all, but it made me put down the game way earlier than I would have otherwise.

 

[Alive2007]

I would like to see them add a large skill tree on top of the D3 rune system, maybe it unlocks at max level and it has several paths that expand on different play styles for each class

 

[Begaria]

I loved Diablo 3, warts and all, and thought the work they did with the Reaper of Souls expansion onwards was amazing. Still, I agree with you. I like skill trees, figuring out a build, etc way more.

I just got back into Grim Dawn after taking a year long break - I went hard on that game, I'm talking 70 odd hours in just a couple of weeks, and had to force myself to step away from it so I could finish other games. The skill trees, class synergies, Devotion system, and loot system is heads and tails above Diablo 3 even to this day.

If you have never seen Grim Dawn's skill trees/devotion system, here's just a couple of examples:

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You want to really go down the rabbit hole of skill trees? Play Grim Dawn.

 

[Doober]

They should make a sequel to Diablo 2 instead of a Gauntlet clone or whatever the fuck Diablo 3 was.

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Oh I'm with you on that. At this point I'd be fine with a very ambitious reboot.

 

[Firemind]

I didn't particularly care for D2's synergy system. They added it with the intent that people would spread their points around to more skills, but the result was that everyone effectively was able to stack even more points toward single skills. I thought D3 was better in that regard because you would actually use several different active skills, vs D2 where you'd just spam a single one that your whole build was focused on.

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Either you're disingenuous or no build was actually like this in D2. Pick one.

 

[Torpedo Vegas]

So long as it has a Communist Dictator class I'm good with anything they do.

 

[Alive2007]

You want to really go down the rabbit hole of skill trees? Play Grim Dawn.

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When the game first hit steam I had 140+ hours just messing around with the class combinations by the time act II was complete and that was without devotions being in the game x)

 

[Reddaye]

I don't particularly care if the skills are in a tree. What I care about is the return of skill points. Tying all character damage to weapon damage hampered itemization too much in my opinion. I'd rather they gave skills multiple levels that increase their effectiveness as you put points into them, independent of weapon damage. If they want to add rune slots that open up as you put points into a skill, similar to Augments in Grim Dawn, that would be fine. I'd personally love to see them add something like PoE's support gems. A system that allows you to make pretty massive changes to the way skills function based on what support gems are linked to the skill.

The biggest thing is that your build should be in your skills, and what gear you use should support that build. Your gear shouldn't define your build. That's how you get stuck with sets being the end all be all, and kills any ability players have to be creative and make their own builds. That's why PoE has such a rabid fan base. ARPGs are as much about character planning/building, as they are about loot grinding.

 

[Kuosi]

Depends how many euros they cost

 

[Deleted member 8852]

At this point I'm not even sure i want Diablo to return.

 

[Bryo4321]

Bring back charms!

 

[Quample]

Honestly it was my least favorite mechanic in D3. It puts literally all the progression on the loot itself rather than your character. And at launch the loot itself was terrible too. Reaper of Souls somehow made the game fun with much better loot, but the progression mechanics were still severely lacking. Path of Exile has the best system right now, but it's simply too complex and broad.

I'd like D4 to have a different passive skill tree for each character that is more streamlined than PoE, and maybe a separate active skill tree like Grim Dawn with other loot specific active skills. Grim Dawn's active tree was too limiting though; it would need to be more expansive.

Make the starting skills less powerful than the final skills on the tree, but with the potential for them to be just as/more powerful with specific loot. Then you can have builds that have varying degrees of gear dependancy, while maintaining standard progression in the earlier game. This part is kind of sloppily thought out, but hopefully some of you get what I mean.

But yeah, skill runes should not come back, especially without a passive tree.

 

[Rubblatus]

I thought Diablo 3's skill runes were great. The bigger issue with Diablo 3's character progression since Reaper of Souls dropped has been...

1.) Leaning too hard on set bonuses being the primary driver of character growth in the end game with legendaries peppered in here and there to round out a set.
2.) Having this equipment itself feel too disposable, as there's no secondary time/resource intensive system to make me as a player feel too invested in any given build.
3.) Just needing more legendary equipment drops at more regular intervals. They've been updating and exploring new legendary effects since RoS dropped, but it feels like they try to avoid adding new legendary items and are generally happier to re-design existing pieces to avoid any sort of legendary bloat.

I'm hoping that Path of Exile's success with Leagues drives Blizzard to implement a more constant and exciting content release cycle in Diablo 4 that could keep the new legendary content roaring, but I have no interest in interacting with skill trees/systems where it feels like I need to open up a spreadsheet and put aside a few hours just to navigate the interface and find what bonuses are available for me to work towards.

 

[Deleted member 31817]

I just want a huge skill tree, did not like the set up in d3

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Yup

I dont mind runes but not having a skill tree at all sucked

 

[LCGeek]

Yup

I dont mind runes but not having a skill tree at all sucked

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It's the biggest part of progression missing in D3.

People have talked about the subject and hybrid systems. I want a hybrid of a lot good things out there but I don't expect blizzard to pull it off in D4. Biggest fear is they won't learn from poe or grim dawn in the right ways.

 

[Deleted member 31817]

You want to really go down the rabbit hole of skill trees? Play Grim Dawn.

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I can barely run it :(

 

[Horp]

Prob gonna be super casual, deep as a puddle and boring as fuck. Sorry. Have no faith in blizz with these things.

 

[Dinskugga]

Personally I fucking loved D2's synergy system. Hell I wouldn't even mind if skill trees and permanent point allocation made a comeback. With trees you didn't just have one character class but three, depending on your specific specialty.

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The synergy system didnt come to D2 until the end of its glory time. it came quite late after Lord Of Destruction expansion. they added it with the revamped end game things. i did like it though. but not the changes to enemies in hell. with the immune system. it was pain in the ass. the game was quite unbeatable alone in hell.

 

[noyram23]

I honestly like the rune system and armor sets synergy, even if we have a full blown skill tree like Diablo 2 I think most people will have the same skill points allocation on each build (min-max) but again option is great and skill tree can help fine tune some builds and offer some subtle variances.

Just don't go and do POE skill tree and also retain the armor set builds making them the same carrot for end game (and possibly more skill changing rolls each for equips)

 

[Nihilus]

I want my skill trees and runewords back.
And let us save our builds and items in a build wardrobe for easy speccing.

 

[Deleted member 31817]

And let us save our builds and items in a build wardrobe for easy speccing.

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They had that in D3 and every ARPG ever should have that (assuming respecs are free or cheap). Unless you mean you want it to return.

 

[Fularu]

I enjoyed runes so yes.

I want them to refine what they did with D3. Instant accessibility, unlimited replayability.

 

[Fugu]

I would like them to scrap Diablo 3 entirely and go back to the drawing board. Instead of making cursory references to the first game ("we made a ring called 'obsidian ring of the zodiac' and a bow called 'windforce'"), play them and figure out a way to iterate on their mechanics since they are literally the reason this franchise has any clout in the first place.

Diablo 3 is a much better game than it was when it launched but it is still a product indicative of a team too arrogant to learn from what its predecessors did right and a piss poor Diablo game as a result. If they changed that element of their process, they'd produce a much better product.

 

[Corsick]

Give the game some actual depth and make each skill much more nuanced like in Last Epoch for example. Or, give it an enormous skill tree similar to PoE. Also, stop tying skill damage to weapon damage. It's oversimplifying the formula so much that there's nothing to explore. They also need to find something more interesting than GFs for an endgame grind.

 

[Ambient80]

More than runes, I liked Charms from D2. Just put them in your inventory and you got bonuses. Allowed for some even more fine tuned customization of your character. But, at least on consoles, they'd have to totally redo the inventory management system.
I realize I'm probably in the minority on that tho haha

 

[JG_Lionheart]

I really really don't like Skill Trees. Grim Dawn soured me on it entirely.

 

[psilocybe]

I would prefer something more similar to Diablo 1 tbh. Since 2 it got overwhelming with numbers, stats, sheets and equipments. I want that simple horror vibe again.

 

[Doober]

I would like them to scrap Diablo 3 entirely and go back to the drawing board. Instead of making cursory references to the first game ("we made a ring called 'obsidian ring of the zodiac' and a bow called 'windforce'"), play them and figure out a way to iterate on their mechanics since they are literally the reason this franchise has any clout in the first place.

Diablo 3 is a much better game than it was when it launched but it is still a product indicative of a team too arrogant to learn from what its predecessors did right and a piss poor Diablo game as a result. If they changed that element of their process, they'd produce a much better product.

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Yeah. D3 made massive improvements over its life but that's mainly because it had such an awful foundation. Like I said before, a sequel really needs to go back to the drawing board and shed any shared DNA with 3.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

If they don't do it like Diablo 2 or Path of Exile, they fucked up.

It's really that simple. Diablo 3's skill system lead to demonstrably less build creativity and diversity. It ended up being a training wheels ARPG.

 

[Fularu]

Yeah. D3 made massive improvements over its life but that's mainly because it had such an awful foundation. Like I said before, a sequel really needs to go back to the drawing board and shed any shared DNA with 3.

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Diablo 3 had the best foundation where it mattered the most, actually playing and feeling the impact of your actions. The game's visual, sound and physical feedback made it, to this day, the most satisfying arpg on the market. In that specific aspect it's far far superior to its predecessors

 

[Moist_Owlet]

The skill system sucked and the art design was ass. The more distance there is between 3 and 4, the better.

 

[Kildrek]

I'm not going to dream about features in a game I'll not purchase or play because of the way blizzard handled their most recent debacle.

It sucks, because I'm sure they could make a great game.

 

[Deleted member 27751]

I'd like them to just do D2: HD please. The formula was perfectly fine for a dungeon crawler and they just had to go and mess with it by adding nonsensical elements that just did not flow with the core of Diablo. I'd love to see maybe even more character development stat-wise, potentially in the realm of Disco Elysium where stats actually matter but obviously not be that RPG/tabletop focused. At the end of the day, make it a fun dungeon crawler with good art and actually decent bloody story this time.

Yeah. D3 made massive improvements over its life but that's mainly because it had such an awful foundation. Like I said before, a sequel really needs to go back to the drawing board and shed any shared DNA with 3.

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It was the biggest problem, because you can't iterate on design that is so hard-coded into the initial game DNA mock up. Diablo 3 certainly received a lot of updates over its years but it still always was the same because the systems were designed around this weird as heck ARPG style game that just isn't Diablo. Give me dungeon crawler with good loot and paperdoll character sheets and I'm a happy man.

 

[IMBCIT]

I don't think they will go as far as PoE but they should at least try to model a skill tree after Grim Dawn.

I have zero faith in blizz to make a Diablo game I would want to play after what they did with D3.

 

[Squarehard]

Fuck D4, just remaster D2.

 

[Dezzy]

They can put all the different modifiers they want, as long as I can somehow undo things if I mess up. :)

I have great memories of Diablo 1 and 2. Diablo 3 was fun but not amazing. They need to reinvent Diablo. Keep what made it special, but update the formula. I want them to go 3rd person and ditch the isometric viewpoint.