Doctor Doom walks up to Luke Cage and calls him the N word. Is that ok?

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SmokingBun

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
2,044
No this has not happened yet, but if it did, would it bother you? Why? Doom is a bad guy, he's an evil tyrant of an oppressed nation who has committed genocide and other humans rights violations. Recently he attained god like power and did worse. Is petty racism really beyond this guy? We're supposed to hate him right? But ok, Doom comes from a campy pseudo-Shakespearean school of villainy, he's all big speeches and grand schemes. He monologues and talks in platitudes and philosophical statements, occasionally screaming RIICHHAARRDDS!!! at no one in particular. Using the N word is too low class for him. At best he'd say, "Man of inferior genes" or something. Ok, lets have a common street thug call Luke the N word, "get that n***" or some such, makes it feel real and gritty right? Or does it feel too real? There are folks who go through life hearing shit like that everyday, do they need it in their fun, fantasy, escapist comic books too?

This topic comes on the heels of a discussion we are having in the CYBERPUNK 2077 thread, specifically your partner calling some thug a "pussy", a gendered insult meant to imply someone is weak and womanly, as if they were the same thing. This partner of yours despite being a "friend" in the game is very much a low life thug and their environment is the sort of ugly, crime ridden ghetto common in Cyberpunk fiction. Would it make sense for the hero to stop the friend and admonish him for using such language? Would the protagonist (a woman herself) really care when their primary concern is survival? I mean she has probably heard a lot worse and as a criminal herself done a lot worse. Would someone gleefully shooting and chopping apart criminals really care about their buddy using what is honestly a playground insult these days? Should they? Perhaps the friend does it only to look tough and runs a PRO LGBT Feminist blog on the side, would it make sense for the character?

And lets say we did stop using such bad words in our fiction, would it change anything?
Does our media reflect the kind of things we say and do in our lives or is it the other way around?
We could always use made up words, but they always end up feeling silly and take you out of it.
Saying frack instead of fuck makes you sound like Ned Flanders trying to sound tough.

In what cases are real world insults and language ok to use and in what cases should they be avoided?
Is it okay for a villain to call a Transgender superhero, "a trap"? I mean we are supposed to hate the villains right?
Or does that become too gross and real, takes the fun out of it?
 

rude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,044
Dr. Doom wouldn’t even let such a barbaric word out of his mouth. Dialogue has to make sense for who the character is.
 

Qikz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,044
Petty racism is beyond Doom. Doom has no need to hate others, he pities them for they will never stand close to someone like him.
 

siddx

Banned
Dec 25, 2017
1,807
Doom wouldn't talk that way. If red skull called luke cage the n word it would make sense.
 

Not

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,596
US
Doctor Doom already is racist; he's just more into tiptoeing "scientific" racism

Real bell curve shit
 

Dirtyshubb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,791
Didn't they actually have him say about black people having inferior genes, maybe black panther being the exception?

Seem to recall it being posted before.
 

Alice

Member
Nov 2, 2017
4,478
Crossbones would. Crossbones is also a Neo Nazi. Nuke might, too.

There are very few "Evil" characters in Marvel that would either care, or stoop as low as using racism against the hero they're facing.
 

Naar

Member
Oct 29, 2017
387
I remember one of the comics having Dr doom cry after 9/11. It was so out of character.

Like seriously??? The guy did way worse things and all of a sudden you expect me to believe Dr doom cares a couple thousand people died? He probably killed x100 that amount
 

Soj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,646
I remember one of the comics having Dr doom cry after 9/11. It was so out of character.

Like seriously??? The guy did way worse things and all of a sudden you expect me to believe Dr doom cares a couple thousand people died? He probably killed x100 that amount
Doombot.
 
OP
OP
SmokingBun

SmokingBun

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
2,044
I remember one of the comics having Dr doom cry after 9/11. It was so out of character.

Like seriously??? The guy did way worse things and all of a sudden you expect me to believe Dr doom cares a couple thousand people died? He probably killed x100 that amount
That bothered me too. Magneto, Kingpin and Doom were crying like a bunch of kids.
Magneto would use the event to gain more support, "SEE WHAT THE HOMO INFERIOR HAS WROUGHT!!".
Kingpin would be angry about some real estate scheme that got messed up.
Doom would visit Abottabad and congratulate Osama on a job well done.
 

Not

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,596
US
That bothered me too. Magneto, Kingpin and Doom were crying like a bunch of kids.
Magneto would use the event to gain more support, "SEE WHAT THE HOMO INFERIOR HAS WROUGHT!!".
Kingpin would be angry about some real estate scheme that got messed up.
Doom would visit Abottabad and congratulate Osama on a job well done.
The brown people were the real unspeakably evil ones

2002 Marvel, man
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
14,820
Greater Vancouver
Dr. Doom literally believes Wakanda's success above other African nations must be the result of some mutant strain in their DNA.

He has other ways of expressing his racism than simply saying a slur.

 

Aurc

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,080
Interesting question, and well-written OP. I guess it all depends on the media in question, and whether they're aiming to convey realism or grit at all. I think it'd be out of place in media that portrays the most shallow archetypes, but in pieces where there's some nuance and they're trying to speak on a myriad of social issues and such, you can't just gloss over these things and pretend people don't actually experience that stuff in their day-to-day lives. A bad example of a game invoking racial injustices would be BioShock Infinite. The game says nothing interesting or profound about race at all, that stuff is just background dressing for a story about
A man and his daughter parading through a poorly done "many worlds" story.

I guess in an effort to counterbalance the "pussy" thing, and the implication that someone is weak and feminine: when one uses the gendered insult "dick", aren't they implying that the male is exhibiting the worst, most brutish traits of masculinity? Brash, tactless, unpleasant, basically someone nobody wants to be around. If viewed from that perspective, these gendered genitalia insults seem thrown-out based on equal grounds: a person embodying the "negative" traits of the opposite sex. Not aiming to necessarily uphold, nor condemn these insults, by the way.
 
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Sgt. Demblant

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,030
France
Yeah it would bother me because it would clash with my understanding of Doom.
He's an evil prick. But not that kind of evil prick.
Kinda reminds me of the Byrne comic where Joker refused to work with nazis. And it makes sense. As readers we're supposed to still kinda like villains like Joker and Doom so there are some lines you can't cross.

And lol at people still being bothered by the 9/11 thing. It was JMS (I think?) sorting through his feelings, awkwardly trying to say that comic-book villains ain't shit compared to real world ones. I never took it that litterally, just as an allegory. Give the guy a break, everyone was ultra emotional about the whole thing and he wrote a kinda silly page in retrospect, who gives a shit.
 

Queen Kong

Out of Kongtrol
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
2,907
Regardless of intentions, it's best not to make threads in reaction to other threads or posts. The thread has been locked for that reason.
 
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