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Doctor Who Series 11 |OT|- She’s Here, and It’s About Time

Oct 25, 2017
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Last night's episode was really good. I wasn't sure what to expect going into it but I was hooked and surprised when it was over.
 
Mar 23, 2018
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Well, to avoid the risk of the thread being accused of groupthink, I thought that was terrible; the worst episode of the series by far. Typical of the worst of New Who - plenty of interesting ideas and setup then a godawful resolution.

I felt the same way. There was some interesting ideas, but I'm just not feeling this season. There have been one or two episodes I enjoyed, otherwise kinda meh.
 
Nov 15, 2017
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Last night's episode was OK, but pretty confusing. I still don't care about any of the companions and the Doctor is still not written well. She is relying constantly on the Sonic Screwdriver for EVERYTHING, and seems to always be in the dark. That's unlike past Doctors would almost always seemed like they were in control.

It also still seems like every episode is based on a social issue or personal ability.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Yeah, I liked a lot of that episode, but I think it would have been a lot better without the antizone and more time in the mirror cabin instead.

Soundtrack was massively improved this week.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Yeah, I liked a lot of that episode, but I think it would have been a lot better without the antizone and more time in the mirror cabin instead.
Missed opportunity not to bring someone back that the Doctor cares about and have her get tempted to stay if only for a bit.
 
Aug 22, 2018
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Man, that was another episode that by-and-large liked, but where I got bored a few times during it. I just don't think these extra ten minutes an episode are doing it any favors.
 
Aug 22, 2018
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The exploding bubble wrap may seem silly but it's one of those things that sticks in my mind every time I go to use some bubble wrap now, which is surprisingly often.
Oh man, that's great! I haven't had that happen yet. But see my post here:
QUOTE="Mulciber, post: 15153564, member: 46981"]Oh, I should have mentioned this, but I also really liked the bubble wrap. I know it's a trope in DW, but I just enjoy that when DW, sci-fi, horror, etc. does something like that, and then later, you experience that item in the real world. Maybe you get an Amazon package with bubble wrap, and just for the slightest moment, you think of that episode and hesitate to pop it. It's fun.[/quote]
 

Kino

Member
Oct 25, 2017
722
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Missed opportunity not to bring someone back that the Doctor cares about and have her get tempted to stay if only for a bit.
Yeah, something about the Timeless Child or an abstract hint towards backstory would have been much appreciated.

The frog was worth it though.
 
It felt like a Red Dwarf episode to me, I can just imagine Lister talking to a frog with a laugth track.
Nearly everybody likes frogs, especially cute ones with nice voices. That episode let us see the world as Doctor Who sees it. She genuinely sought and achieved a friendly way to say goodbye, and showed great respect for the frog universe.

Thinking a bit more deeply, it's pretty obvious that she was ahead of the game all along. Would she really have given her sonic screwdriver to Ribbons? Did she really contemplate leaving Yaz, Graham and Ryan alone in the interzone?

Maybe the answer to both questions is "yes, possibly." Are we ready for the return of the scary Doctor Who yet?
 
Nov 3, 2017
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Been seeing some weird rumours about another series cancellation. Given that this season is showing some of the strongest ratings in years, can I assume this is just paranoia potentially prodded by idiots who are still unhappy the Doctor is a lady?
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,264
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Sheffield, UK
Nearly everybody likes frogs, especially cute ones with nice voices. That episode let us see the world as Doctor Who sees it. She genuinely sought and achieved a friendly way to say goodbye, and showed great respect for the frog universe.

Thinking a bit more deeply, it's pretty obvious that she was ahead of the game all along. Would she really have given her sonic screwdriver to Ribbons? Did she really contemplate leaving Yaz, Graham and Ryan alone in the interzone?

Maybe the answer to both questions is "yes, possibly." Are we ready for the return of the scary Doctor Who yet?
I wouldn’t mind her losing the screwdriver for a bit. It’s the one thing I agree with Chitown B about. I also think they undersold the frog’s loneliness. In the end it was pretty chipper about returning to solitary confinement for eternity. Can frogs cry? It should’ve.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,600
1
Been seeing some weird rumours about another series cancellation. Given that this season is showing some of the strongest ratings in years, can I assume this is just paranoia potentially prodded by idiots who are still unhappy the Doctor is a lady?
There is a rumor going around that Chibs and Jodie are leaving the show after next year. I haven’t heard anything about a cancellation though.
 
Oct 27, 2017
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The ratings were incredibly strong for the premiere but they’ve been consistently declining, declining faster than during Capaldi’s first season.



There’s no real hook for the finale as well so I doubt it will see the ratings bump that finales usually do. Still far better than S11’s ratings but the ratings are pretty comparable for the same point of time in S8 now, In the Forest of the Night got 5.03m overnight.

Also I see we’ve redecorated, I don’t like it
 
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Dec 15, 2017
1,058
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Australia
Season 8 - 7 overnights above 5m, 5 overnights below 5m, only Capaldi's debut episode above 6m overnight (6.80m). 6 final ratings above 7m, 6 final ratings between 6m-6.9m, only Capaldi's debut episode above 8m (9.17m)

Season 9 - All overnights under 5m. All final ratings under 7m.

Season 10 - All overnights under 5m. All final ratings under 7m.

* Xmas episodes excluded *


Only 6 non-Xmas episodes from Capaldi's entire run have beaten any of this season's on final ratings and most of them by a small margin.

Deep Breath - 9.17m
Death in Heaven - 7.60m
Dark Water - 7.34
Into the Dalek - 7.29
Robot of Sherwood - 7.28
Mummy on the Orient Express - 7.11

No episode in the last 2 seasons came close to 7m in final ratings.
 
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Oct 28, 2017
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Even if Chibnall somehow manages to pull a Heaven Sent out of his backside, this for me is the worst series of NuWho by a considerable margin.

The Doctor is bland.
The companions other than Graham are boring and a waste of space.
I can’t think of a single memorable piece of music.
Outside of a few good shots, the production values feel lower than S10.
I don’t feel any sort of mystery or need to watch the finale. If the villain and his race from the first episode is the big bad I’ll yawn throughout.

Hope Chibnall has some bangers saved up for next series.

I’m a big Broadchurch fan but I don’t feel he is right for Doctor Who. He just doesn’t have the range of RTD or Moffat.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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I felt the same way. There was some interesting ideas, but I'm just not feeling this season. There have been one or two episodes I enjoyed, otherwise kinda meh.
Me three. A very odd story, with a really poor fluff-to-substance ratio for me.

Like, what was even the point of the anti-zone? Nothing that happened in there had any bearing whatsoever on the story going on in either the real world or the mirror world. Ribbons, the moths, the trading for the Sonic... it all seemed to just be there to fill time.
 
Oct 27, 2017
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This series actually reminds me a lot of S1, if you took out the Dalek episodes and added Jackie and Mickey to the TARDIS crew.

Been seeing some weird rumours about another series cancellation. Given that this season is showing some of the strongest ratings in years, can I assume this is just paranoia potentially prodded by idiots who are still unhappy the Doctor is a lady?
and/or wish fulfillment fantasies from people who want to see Chibnall get the boot.

I think there's probably something to the idea that Chibnall is/was unhappy at the prospect of doing a 10-episode series every year, for 3-4 years in a row, given that has not been his usual work pace as a showrunner before (though I'd also add, did he miss the previous 12 years of this show?). I doubt he or Jodie will leave anytime soon though; given the ratings, I'm sure the BBC would sooner bend to accommodate Chibnall's needs -- maybe give 15-month breaks or something between seasons -- than fire him over it. But who really knows!
 
Oct 25, 2017
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This series actually reminds me a lot of S1, if you took out the Dalek episodes and added Jackie and Mickey to the TARDIS crew.
Man, I wish I cared about anyone in S11 as much as I did the characters in S1. I rewatched The Christmas Invasion a few days ago, and if there's one thing that Russell was good at, it was writing relatable, sympathetic characters.

For me, the biggest failing of S11 is that it feels cold and detached; at the risk of being cliched, it lacks the warmth and heart of the prior seasons for me.
 
Oct 27, 2017
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Man, I wish I cared about anyone in S11 as much as I did the characters in S1. I rewatched The Christmas Invasion a few days ago, and if there's one thing that Russell was good at, it was writing relatable, sympathetic characters.

For me, the biggest failing of S11 is that it feels cold and detached; at the risk of being cliched, it lacks the warmth and heart of the prior seasons for me.
Series 1 hadn't aged well five years ago but after this series I have a new appreciation for RTD's series that I never had before, particularly Series 1. It was consistently entertaining, the music was great and memorable, the monsters were...also memorable, the Doctor was fantastic, as was the companion dynamic with Rose. Rose, Dalek, The Empty Child, The Doctor Dances, and the Parting of Ways are all very good episodes.

I do need to watch last night’s episode still,
 
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Oct 27, 2017
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I think there's probably something to the idea that Chibnall is/was unhappy at the prospect of doing a 10-episode series every year, for 3-4 years in a row, given that has not been his usual work pace as a showrunner before (though I'd also add, did he miss the previous 12 years of this show?). I doubt he or Jodie will leave anytime soon though; given the ratings, I'm sure the BBC would sooner bend to accommodate Chibnall's needs -- maybe give 15-month breaks or something between seasons -- than fire him over it. But who really knows!
The word was also that Jodie wants to spend more time with her three year old kid.

Admittedly I may be more biased to believing the reports because I’m not happy with the new direction, but I feel like there would have been some comment from the BBC, Chibnall, or Jodie by now at least about whether or not the next series will be six episodes, as they began filming Series 12 last month. They’ve refused to comment.
 
Oct 27, 2017
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One thing RTD did well was creating an overarching story and mystery through his run. Nothing is sticking out or of particular interest in this season. I like Jodie Whittaker but her doctor is just sort of... lacking. Besides graham the companions are just bland. The stories range from ok to boring. It's a real shame, i had such high hopes for this run too. The theme music makes it feel like it's going to be full on crazy sci-fi on really unique, alien worlds too but it's not really had much of that either.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Series 1 hadn't aged well five years ago but after this series I have a new appreciation for RTD's series that I never had before, particularly Series 1. It was consistently entertaining, the music was great and memorable, the monsters were...also memorable, the Doctor was fantastic, as was the companion dynamic with Rose. Rose, Dalek, The Empty Child, The Doctor Dances, and the Parting of Ways are all very good episodes.

I do need to watch last night’s episode still,
Series 1 has certainly aged poorly in a bunch of ways (people will often cite the effects, but go back and listen to some of the music before they could afford an orchestra!), but I think the stories and the characters are as good as they ever were.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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27
Youngstown, Ohio
Man, I wish I cared about anyone in S11 as much as I did the characters in S1. I rewatched The Christmas Invasion a few days ago, and if there's one thing that Russell was good at, it was writing relatable, sympathetic characters.

For me, the biggest failing of S11 is that it feels cold and detached; at the risk of being cliched, it lacks the warmth and heart of the prior seasons for me.
It feels detached because Chibs went one step too far in the whole "soft reset" direction. Sure, we get references of the past now and then, like "reverse the polarity", but no references to past characters or enemies, no references to Gallifrey, no "what species are you?" questions, hell, no questions towards the Doctor at all about who she is and where she is from, etc.

I'm enjoying the season. I think Jodie is great. But I do fear that we are heading into a finale that will feel like another standalone episode. Even if we get Tim Shaw and crew at the end as returning villains, there hasn't been any work in the background at bringing them back aside from that one mention in episode two. Even Class had more of an over-arcing story than this with the Shadow Kin.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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It's probably good that she wasn't. River's story is finally over and I don't think any other writer needs to bring her back.
Yeah we dodged a bullet there.
There's a way to do it right and have it fit the tone of this season. I can see it very clearly, too. Sombre and lovely and full of history, Whittaker would've smashed that scene. Maybe I shoud've run this season instead of Chibbers.

Feels like we are walking into the finale. Ho hum just another episode.

Chibs has got to go.
Yeah, I have never headed into a Doctor Who finale with no hype whatsoever before. I feel like I'm on the verge of exploding into one of those annoying "Fuck (insert showrunner)" fanboys and I don't like that to happen.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,682
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It feels detached because Chibs went one step too far in the whole "soft reset" direction. Sure, we get references of the past now and then, like "reverse the polarity", but no references to past characters or enemies, no references to Gallifrey, no "what species are you?" questions, hell, no questions towards the Doctor at all about who she is and where she is from, etc.
I think that last thing especially hurts it for me. It's very much like the classic series in that the Doctor has no real story or arc; she's just there, having adventures. I'm not sure that's enough in 2018, especially when past series have done a great job on giving the character compelling stories (like 9 dealing with the aftermath of his part in the Time War, or 11 having to face down the looming threat of his death in his second series).

I'm enjoying the season. I think Jodie is great. But I do fear that we are heading into a finale that will feel like another standalone episode. Even if we get Tim Shaw and crew at the end as returning villains, there hasn't been any work in the background at bringing them back aside from that one mention in episode two. Even Class had more of an over-arcing story than this with the Shadow Kin.
I've certainly enjoyed parts of the show this year, and I think the cast are doing a fine job with the material they have. But as you say, I'm no more pumped for the finale than I was last week's episode, or the week before. I have no reason to be, beyond "it's the finale". I've criticized Chibnall for this before, but I think one of the things I find most annoying about his approach is that he's a terrible hype man. Russell and Steven knew how to get their audience pumped and on the edge of their seats. Chibnall might, but it seems like he isn't even interested in trying.
 
Oct 27, 2017
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So, caught the newest episode on Amazon Prime. Not bad, but I feel it could have done better with more time, it felt very compressed, IMO. Like if you took a Classic Who serial and tried to force it into a single episode. In Classic Who you would've had an episode setting up the house and family, an episode set in the Antizone, one in the Mirror Zone introducing the characters there, one with the Doctor and the Intelligent Universe where they converse and the Doctor finally talks it into letting them go, and a conclusion.
 
Nov 15, 2017
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Sorry if this is redundant, but I'm going through major Doctor Who withdrawals.

I was so excited for this season, and it has just let me down at every turn. Admittedly, I'm a big Moffat and Capaldi fan, and their style was very different than what is happening now. I'm also not big into classic Who, so I'm just not into the disconnected, colder feeling of this season.

I'm going to finish out the season, but I'm not sure if I'll keep going after that. I love Jodie as an actress, but all of her material has been so utterly "meh" (aside from Rosa- I like Rosa) that I find myself going back to watch Heaven Sent or Listen or A Good Man Goes to War instead.

I just wish there was a hook. An interesting character or scenario or something to help everything this season seem more cohesive. More meaningful. Everything that has happened has just... happened.
 
Oct 27, 2017
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The word was also that Jodie wants to spend more time with her three year old kid.
yeah I saw that too, but that's another thing where I'm like -- why wouldn't that have come up in consideration before?

RTD was definitely the best middle ground between Moffat and Chibbers in terms of handling series arcs, for me anyways.
Other than maybe Series 4, RTD's way of handling series arcs was to tease out one word in the background over and over that meant absolutely nothing until the very end. And even then, still didn't really amount to much! :lol The recurring use of Bad Wolf and Saxon doesn't say anything about, or set up, Time Vortex Rose or the Master at all. The four knocks stuff and flashes of Rose in S4 were handled better though.

I actually think Moffat gets unnecessary shit for his arcs. As contained in their respective seasons -- the cracks in S5, the Doctor's death in S6, Clara in S7 -- they were threaded through and built up pretty well enough imo. For me the issue was more in how he tried to connect the dots between each of those seasons' arc (e.g. connecting two different factions of the Silence, the "silence will fall" voice and the exploding TARDIS all together, in one very cluttered conversation scene), which is where things got messy. His arc plotting definitely improved a lot and felt much more focused during the Capaldi seasons though.


Anyway! I caught up with The Witchfinders tonight, which I thought was solid but the plotting also felt really rushed. Almost like a two-parter that was collapsed into one. The jump from the witch trials to the mud aliens and how the two were connected just didn't gel well, imo. I liked the creepy woodsy atmosphere though and actually enjoyed Alan Cumming's performance, which wasn't as OTT hammy as I was expecting. :lol I feel like this episode really did crystallize one of my issues with this season, which is that the dialogue at times is just flat and terrible. This is one area where RTD and Moffat not just shone, but you took for granted was something that's just part of Doctor Who rather than a strength of those two writers. There are still some good lines here and there (which I feel mostly come from Graham, so maybe it's less the writing and more Bradley Walsh's performance that's elevating it?) but by and large a lot of the dialogue just doesn't feel as sharp as it used to.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
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The funny thing is looking at the whole season, it's actually for the most part solid, with the only outright stinker being Arachnids in UK. Tsuranga Conundrum and to a lesser extent Woman who Fell to Earth were thoroughly mediocre, but beyond that everything's been decently solid at worst and genuinely great at best. And yet the season still feels weak, mainly due to overarching issues like the story feeling aimless and Whitaker feeling underutilized.

In a way, the season as a whole suffers from the same issue as several of the individual episodes: the whole feeling less than the sum of their parts.
 
Oct 27, 2017
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Series 1 has certainly aged poorly in a bunch of ways (people will often cite the effects, but go back and listen to some of the music before they could afford an orchestra!), but I think the stories and the characters are as good as they ever were.
The music in Series 5 got a massive level up, so much so that it feels like a different composer, but Gold’s original themes are still iconic.



I actually think Moffat gets unnecessary shit for his arcs. As contained in their respective seasons -- the cracks in S5, the Doctor's death in S6, Clara in S7 -- they were threaded through and built up pretty well enough imo. For me the issue was more in how he tried to connect the dots between each of those seasons' arc (e.g. connecting two different factions of the Silence, the "silence will fall" voice and the exploding TARDIS all together, in one very cluttered conversation scene), which is where things got messy. His arc plotting definitely improved a lot and felt much more focused during the Capaldi seasons though.

Anyway! I caught up with The Witchfinders tonight, which I thought was solid but the plotting also felt really rushed. Almost like a two-parter that was collapsed into one. The jump from the witch trials to the mud aliens and how the two were connected just didn't gel well, imo. I liked the creepy woodsy atmosphere though and actually enjoyed Alan Cumming's performance, which wasn't as OTT hammy as I was expecting. :lol I feel like this episode really did crystallize one of my issues with this season, which is that the dialogue at times is just flat and terrible. This is one area where RTD and Moffat not just shone, but you took for granted was something that's just part of Doctor Who rather than a strength of those two writers. There are still some good lines here and there (which I feel mostly come from Graham, so maybe it's less the writing and more Bradley Walsh's performance that's elevating it?) but by and large a lot of the dialogue just doesn't feel as sharp as it used to.
I definitely preferred Moffat’s way over RTD just namedropping things at the end of episodes like “Torchwood”. I’ve said a lot about Series 9 but he was really at the top of his game for story arc development there - there’s so many themes and ideas that carry through and build throughout the season with every episode. The home of the Daleks and Time Lords bookend each other, the Doctor’s confession dial, the Doctor going to extremes to save people, war, the hybrid, breaking the rules of time.

King James was probably the most entertaining thing about the episode and his likeability made it look even weirder when 13 threw a tantrum at the end. And it was ridiculous how the town people and even KingJames were expected to actually see an actual difference that mattered between witches and people possessed by mud.

“Oh, mate, seriously? Not witches. Bodies possessed by alien mud. Come on!”

You’d think that line would be said sarcastically but it’s said completely seriously.