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Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,595
The word was also that Jodie wants to spend more time with her three year old kid.

yeah I saw that too, but that's another thing where I'm like -- why wouldn't that have come up in consideration before?

RTD was definitely the best middle ground between Moffat and Chibbers in terms of handling series arcs, for me anyways.

Other than maybe Series 4, RTD's way of handling series arcs was to tease out one word in the background over and over that meant absolutely nothing until the very end. And even then, still didn't really amount to much! :lol The recurring use of Bad Wolf and Saxon doesn't say anything about, or set up, Time Vortex Rose or the Master at all. The four knocks stuff and flashes of Rose in S4 were handled better though.

I actually think Moffat gets unnecessary shit for his arcs. As contained in their respective seasons -- the cracks in S5, the Doctor's death in S6, Clara in S7 -- they were threaded through and built up pretty well enough imo. For me the issue was more in how he tried to connect the dots between each of those seasons' arc (e.g. connecting two different factions of the Silence, the "silence will fall" voice and the exploding TARDIS all together, in one very cluttered conversation scene), which is where things got messy. His arc plotting definitely improved a lot and felt much more focused during the Capaldi seasons though.


Anyway! I caught up with The Witchfinders tonight, which I thought was solid but the plotting also felt really rushed. Almost like a two-parter that was collapsed into one. The jump from the witch trials to the mud aliens and how the two were connected just didn't gel well, imo. I liked the creepy woodsy atmosphere though and actually enjoyed Alan Cumming's performance, which wasn't as OTT hammy as I was expecting. :lol I feel like this episode really did crystallize one of my issues with this season, which is that the dialogue at times is just flat and terrible. This is one area where RTD and Moffat not just shone, but you took for granted was something that's just part of Doctor Who rather than a strength of those two writers. There are still some good lines here and there (which I feel mostly come from Graham, so maybe it's less the writing and more Bradley Walsh's performance that's elevating it?) but by and large a lot of the dialogue just doesn't feel as sharp as it used to.
 
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Watchtower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,628
The funny thing is looking at the whole season, it's actually for the most part solid, with the only outright stinker being Arachnids in UK. Tsuranga Conundrum and to a lesser extent Woman who Fell to Earth were thoroughly mediocre, but beyond that everything's been decently solid at worst and genuinely great at best. And yet the season still feels weak, mainly due to overarching issues like the story feeling aimless and Whitaker feeling underutilized.

In a way, the season as a whole suffers from the same issue as several of the individual episodes: the whole feeling less than the sum of their parts.
 

Halbrand

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,612
Series 1 has certainly aged poorly in a bunch of ways (people will often cite the effects, but go back and listen to some of the music before they could afford an orchestra!), but I think the stories and the characters are as good as they ever were.
The music in Series 5 got a massive level up, so much so that it feels like a different composer, but Gold's original themes are still iconic.





I actually think Moffat gets unnecessary shit for his arcs. As contained in their respective seasons -- the cracks in S5, the Doctor's death in S6, Clara in S7 -- they were threaded through and built up pretty well enough imo. For me the issue was more in how he tried to connect the dots between each of those seasons' arc (e.g. connecting two different factions of the Silence, the "silence will fall" voice and the exploding TARDIS all together, in one very cluttered conversation scene), which is where things got messy. His arc plotting definitely improved a lot and felt much more focused during the Capaldi seasons though.

Anyway! I caught up with The Witchfinders tonight, which I thought was solid but the plotting also felt really rushed. Almost like a two-parter that was collapsed into one. The jump from the witch trials to the mud aliens and how the two were connected just didn't gel well, imo. I liked the creepy woodsy atmosphere though and actually enjoyed Alan Cumming's performance, which wasn't as OTT hammy as I was expecting. :lol I feel like this episode really did crystallize one of my issues with this season, which is that the dialogue at times is just flat and terrible. This is one area where RTD and Moffat not just shone, but you took for granted was something that's just part of Doctor Who rather than a strength of those two writers. There are still some good lines here and there (which I feel mostly come from Graham, so maybe it's less the writing and more Bradley Walsh's performance that's elevating it?) but by and large a lot of the dialogue just doesn't feel as sharp as it used to.
I definitely preferred Moffat's way over RTD just namedropping things at the end of episodes like "Torchwood". I've said a lot about Series 9 but he was really at the top of his game for story arc development there - there's so many themes and ideas that carry through and build throughout the season with every episode. The home of the Daleks and Time Lords bookend each other, the Doctor's confession dial, the Doctor going to extremes to save people, war, the hybrid, breaking the rules of time.

King James was probably the most entertaining thing about the episode and his likeability made it look even weirder when 13 threw a tantrum at the end. And it was ridiculous how the town people and even KingJames were expected to actually see an actual difference that mattered between witches and people possessed by mud.

"Oh, mate, seriously? Not witches. Bodies possessed by alien mud. Come on!"

You'd think that line would be said sarcastically but it's said completely seriously.
 

Watchtower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,628
"Oh, mate, seriously? Not witches. Bodies possessed by alien mud. Come on!"

You'd think that line would be said sarcastically but it's said completely seriously.

I thought that was the joke? Yaz says that seriously and the camera hangs on King James looking completely flabbergasted.

One could argue it's weird for her and the others to be so blase about it, but then again they've been unusually more in lock step with this Doctor than other Companions have been with other Doctors.
 

ClivePwned

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,612
Australia
Unless I'm missing it, there's only the opening and end titles, no extended version like from the first episode (which probably means no middle eight)

will still grab
 

-shadow-

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,110

giphy.gif


Hearing this during the 12/13 regeneration had me so happy.
 

milamber182

Member
Dec 15, 2017
7,707
Australia
Unless I'm missing it, there's only the opening and end titles, no extended version like from the first episode (which probably means no middle eight)

will still grab

Here's the Middle 8 version but the last 20 seconds are repetitive and the drums sound more annoying the more I listen to it.




This is the best Middle 8 of the new series, IMO, although I think the theme would sound better played at 85-90% speed.

 
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The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,416
Disagree, I lover her. But I feel like the obvious reason to have her not is the fact that it would be an oddity considering he fathered her, and the Doctor is now a woman. So it would be completely removed from that time loop.
Yes I remember when the mail were complaining about the 'sexy' incest during the Moffat years and the dodgy scene where Amy asks the doctor to stop flirting with his daughter, as they kill the silence together.
 

EvilRedEye

Member
Oct 29, 2017
747
Brexit update: The BBC have backed out of hosting a debate as Jeremy Corbyn just wasn't up for their bid so the finale is definitely safe now.
 

WhovianGamer

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,033
I lost it with the Witchfinders episode when King James turned up without a decent reason to be there. The King of Scotland and England randomly in the middle of nowhere just because? Nope.

Given he is an interesting historical character, I don't for the life of me know why they didn't do the gunpowder plot on the nearest weekend in November. That could be a brilliant historical and would tackle religious unrest and also dispel a few myths about that event.

British history is hardly ever covered well in Doctor Who. It's always done with a joke in mind. It's sad that other countries history is handled more respectfully than our own.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,595
I lost it with the Witchfinders episode when King James turned up without a decent reason to be there. The King of Scotland and England randomly in the middle of nowhere just because? Nope.

Given he is an interesting historical character, I don't for the life of me know why they didn't do the gunpowder plot on the nearest weekend in November. That could be a brilliant historical and would tackle religious unrest and also dispel a few myths about that event.

British history is hardly ever covered well in Doctor Who. It's always done with a joke in mind. It's sad that other countries history is handled more respectfully than our own.
haha, it was weird that the KING of all people was just hanging around like it was no big deal.

Also has the show basically given up on dressing up the companions for historicals?
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,257
The Cyclone State
Finally got to the last 2 episodes, loved both of them. King James showing up in the witch episode was a bit odd, but I like his character. In the mirror episode I loved that they actually got people from Norway to act in it, and a blind girl, the accents really help. I wish they could have done the same for the Pakistan episode, instead of using a bunch of people with British or Scottish accents for people living in India around partition. In the countryside none the less...
 

LL_Decitrig

User-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,334
Sunderland
haha, it was weird that the KING of all people was just hanging around like it was no big deal.

Also has the show basically given up on dressing up the companions for historicals?

Well the king has to be somewhere, and the TARDIS seems to be good at putting Doctor Who exactly where she needs to be. But yeah, I think we all know somebody wanted to cast Alan Cumming as the most fabulous of all British monarchs, and Alan was completely onboard. Since Flying High ended I don't think he gets much chance at fabulosity. Poor buttoned-up Eli!

Edit: sorry I meant the show known as The High Life (not Flying High.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_High_Life_(1994_TV_series)
 

Htown

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,317
I lost it with the Witchfinders episode when King James turned up without a decent reason to be there. The King of Scotland and England randomly in the middle of nowhere just because? Nope.
for 2/3 of the episode I was convinced he would be revealed to be some kind of shapeshifter or something, because it didn't make sense for him to show up out of nowhere, and he didn't show his face until literally right after they mentioned the King James Bible
 

Worthintendo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
941
Speaking of Doctor Who intro theme, is the Matt Smith second intro theme that was used for Season 7 Part 2 on iTunes at all, can't find it anywhere on there.
 

PaulloDEC

Visited by Knack
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,406
Australia
The music in Series 5 got a massive level up, so much so that it feels like a different composer, but Gold's original themes are still iconic.





Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of Murray Gold's work. The majority of his stuff holds up extremely well.

I just meant the fact that the score for S1 was done primarily on synths, which sound pretty awful nowadays. Go back and listen to the climax of "Dalek", then compare it to the orchestrated version.
 

ibyea

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,163
It Takes You Away is amazing, despite how unnecessary the anit zone stuff is. It would have been perfect if they got rid of the anti zone and just focused on grief and moving on stuff, but what was there was very strong. Second best episode of the season after Demons of Punjab.
 

Halbrand

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,612
Oh man

Just when they pull me back in, it takes me away.

I was really into it for a while and was ready to say this was actually shaping up to be quite a good episode for once. The opening shot of the TARDIS in Norway is stunningly beautiful. But it just keeps getting worse and worse, like Kerblam and Witchfinders, but maybe even more so here.

I hear people complaining about the antizone but it was actually one of my favourite parts of the episode, with the Gollum copy. It reminded me of Riddles of the Dark in The Hobbit. The fact that there was no monster in the forest was completley predictable from this series. Graham remains by far the best character in this series and he's the one part that actually works. Him wanting to stay with Grace in an alternate reality was pretty good.

The Doctor having seven grandmothers is just annoying. Ryan getting knocked out by a blind kid with a door was the weakest knockout in history, and locking her up saying there's no use calling the police also seemed really bizarre. There's way, way too much exposition here, even Jodie giving it her best with a ton of enthusiasm. Yaz felt more useless than ever. Why is she here?

I think the concept here had a lot of potential and could have made a great two-parter. And entire episode could have been spent in a mirror universe with people there for all the characters. But it goes from intriguing to straight up bad in the last minutes. The fact that this place can threaten to totally destroy the normal reality sort of came out of no where and came off as being ridiculous.

dw-11.9.1.jpg


And the frog scene...THAT FROG SCENE. I read the spoilers and knew it was coming, but still, compared to my expectations...

tenor.gif


That was seriously the funniest thing I've seen in months. I don't laugh often during movies and I genuinely laughed out loud during the entire scene between 13 and the frog that bizarrely had Grace's voice. And I don't think it was meant to be funny. The Doctor saying let's be friends forever to a frog and this frog is the most beautiful thing she's ever seen. My God the writers had to be on LSD to think this was good writing. The funniest scene ever in Doctor Who, and not for the right reasons. Doctor Who's done a lot of weird stuff before so I wasn't going to immediately write it off when I heard about it, but it was terribad. Like a movie that's so bad you can't help finding it hilarious.

On the positive side, 13 broke the pattern and didn't have a bizarre moral decision or meltdown in this episode, although she still offered to be BFFs with a frog that was a universe that almost destroyed reality.

I have no idea how some people likened it to Listen. This episode was closer a Forest of the Night. It's a 4/10 from me at the best. I don't know how I could even rank this series because it's all been bad aside from Rosa.

Judging by next week's preview I have no idea what it's about and it certainly doesn't feel like it's about to be the finale.
 
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ClivePwned

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,612
Australia
Speaking of Doctor Who intro theme, is the Matt Smith second intro theme that was used for Season 7 Part 2 on iTunes at all, can't find it anywhere on there.

I don't think anything bar the original Smith version of the theme was made available. Certainly not the season 7 version or the demix from Day of the Doctor. I guess Murray hates sharing royalties.
 

Halbrand

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,612
I don't think anything bar the original Smith version of the theme was made available. Certainly not the season 7 version or the demix from Day of the Doctor. I guess Murray hates sharing royalties.
Was the full version of the Series 7 I am the Doctor ever released?


Nice to see this series making best-TV-of-the-year lists, even before the finale:
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2018/dec/03/the-50-best-tv-shows-of-2018
(They listed 2017's season as #24, and didn't list it in 2016 at all)
There was no 2016 series.
 
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Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,595
Drewton I generally agree with the outline of your review in terms of starting promising but then declining toward the end, and in what ways it started to decline, though for whatever reason I think the overall episode came together better for me - and certainly felt like more of a 'greater than the sum of its parts' type episode than the rest of this season. I definitely agree that the exposition is definitely coming in way too hard and too often. That whole Solitrack monologue in the attic felt like the first draft of a much simpler way to get that point across. This has been a recurring problem all season, and I think it's exacerbated by the fact that Chibnall also leans heavily on un-natural sounding exposition in his own writing, so he's not going to be the one to filter it out of guest writers' scripts the way RTD and Moffat could.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,595

Worthintendo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
941
I remember seeing Silva Screen say something about how they didn't have the rights to it.
I don't think anything bar the original Smith version of the theme was made available. Certainly not the season 7 version or the demix from Day of the Doctor. I guess Murray hates sharing royalties.
That's a shame on both accounts, I think Matt's second theme is up there with the best renditions of the main theme, and same for the Day of the Doctor one.
Cool to see this rumor finally confirmed:

Lost Patrick Troughton serial The Macra Terror is being reconstructed with animation, set to release in March 2019

https://www.doctorwho.tv/news/?article=brand-new-animation-of-missing-doctor-who-serial-the-macra-terror-to-be-released- on-dvd-and-bluray#_

The art also looks like the best these missing episode animations have ever looked.

And a (very short) teaser: https://www.facebook.com/DoctorWho/videos/368766310363139/
Yay more Patrick to check out, the more I watch the more he becomes my fav :)
 

Deleted member 17388

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,994
wow the frog :v

Great episode, liked the concept of an stranged consciousness trying to belong again; in some way or another.
And that hellish dimension with the monster that looked right from Angel's LA too
 

Spectromixer

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
16,609
USA
Cool to see this rumor finally confirmed:

Lost Patrick Troughton serial The Macra Terror is being reconstructed with animation, set to release in March 2019

https://www.doctorwho.tv/news/?article=brand-new-animation-of-missing-doctor-who-serial-the-macra-terror-to-be-released- on-dvd-and-bluray#_

The art also looks like the best these missing episode animations have ever looked.

And a (very short) teaser: https://www.facebook.com/DoctorWho/videos/368766310363139/


Yay!!
 

Hexxen-panda

Member
Oct 25, 2017
210
The first watch of this week's episode left me feeling quite confused and a bit mixed, but I really felt much more positive about it on a rewatch. The sci-fi concepts were a bit muddled and over-explained, but the emotional threads worked better on me with that second watch. Music and production is also very great on this episode.
If only there were 13 episodes I'd probably feel less sour about this season. I really liked almost all the episodes so far, but Tsuranga just left an awful, awful impression. Having 3 more decent to good episodes would have diluted that awful taste.
 

Worthintendo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
941
I have to wonder why they haven't gotten around to do an animated reconstruction for the missing episode in The Web of Fear yet? It's only missing the one episode and feels strange to do another full serial reconstruction instead of finishing off the stuff with only one episode missing. Unless there is still hope for the missing episode to turn up one day.