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Doctor Who Series 12 |OT| Spyfall Is Where We Start

Metallix87

Metallix87

User Requested Self-Ban
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Nov 1, 2017
10,533
I felt very let down by this week's episode. I thoroughly enjoyed the first episode, but this basically ended the story on an awkward thud. The entire villainous plan made almost no sense, and it seemed like just a waste of time, as instead what mattered was reintroducing the Master and showing us the fate of the Time Lords, as well as setting up what is likely the story arc for the season.
 
Immortan

Immortan

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,457
Los Angeles
Think it is 10 episodes a season, and 1 special.

That was an okay episode, The Master is still the best thing about the episode, everyone else felt kinda...just around and he actually felt like he took the shit he was given and believed it. Hopefully we see more of him, and with how the episode ended we must.

The next part is about the spoilers posted earlier.
It really does seem like the timeless child is exactly what the spoilers say it is, after watching the episode and reading the spoilers it does seem like The Doctor and Master had lives before their original lives and then they got stabilized and because of that we got Doctor number 1 and so on. Does it really change the history though? I mean they always said the Doctor was a promise made.....I guess i can see why people are pissed and think its stupid, but I think its a 50+ year old show and sometimes you have to change something to keep it interesting in fresh. Because how many times can we listen to the doctor tell her/his companions the same origin story again and again.
 
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RamsesGod43

RamsesGod43

Member
Sep 28, 2019
63
Mississauga
I am so sorry, I tried really hard. The music and stories are sooo generic in this series and in the previous one. No excitement, no spontaneity. Even with the Master reveal.

Life long Who fan. From the beginning of the new series run with Eccleston and Piper to now. They need to step away like Star Wars and take a break.

They should have done a River Song show instead.
 
Orion

Orion

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,784
Graham and his laser shoes have already made this season more than worth it.
 
VorpalNonsense

VorpalNonsense

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,650
Their last season wasn't received so well so they brought the Master right back to life and destroyed Gallifrey again
Just hitting the reset button huh no new tricks in their bag
show is just a sad wet cough under Chibnall and the cast are getting robbed
Never finished the last season and it's not looking good for this one so far either
 
Halbrand

Halbrand

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,616
HigXx said:
Okay spoilers here from Gallifrey Base

Poster first posted this on Oct 19

oh boy guys I've got leaks, and you're in for a wild ride with Series 12 and its additions to canon. And it's not looking good.
If you believe me, I have only four clues. Not sure I want to get C&Ded by The BBC.

1. "Cyber Zealot"
2. "Death Particle"
3. "The Master and Waris Hussein"
4. "Ruth and the Child in Time"

So point No.3 definitely was true. They then posted

I feel the only thing I can explain without being murdered is the Child in Time. I'm still in shock at the route Chibnall has gone down.
The Child in Time is the Doctor themselves, and is their "first life" per se. As a child, they were unkillable and could regenerate endlessly. Found on an unknown planet, they were taken back to Gallifrey, where their abilities allowed Gallifreyans to become Time Lords. The character "Ruth" is (apparently) an earlier life of the Doctor.
I appreciate this sounds like the Virgin Books from during the hiatus, but believe me when I say all this is true; and if it's anything like how my source explained it, the entire fandom will explode. I'm shocked.

Oh boy is Chibnall going in hard with the canon. I didn't think we would be going this deep. Especially after last series
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This sounds atrocious

Chibnall is by far the worst thing to happen to new Doctor Who
 
The Unsent

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,438
I quite liked it but I think Lenny Henry and Dhawan got their roles mixed up.

Henry would have have been great as a creepy and more subtte master, that contrasts with Missy, and Dhawan would have been good as a younger and pyhoctic tech genius. Dhawan was too much like Simm, but better at the quiter scenes. I know the Master is just the timelord joker at that point and has to be chew the scenery, but I think that's getting tiring.
 
Coldman

Coldman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,203
When the Master asked the Doctor to use his name, she should have said Koschei. 😏
 
Psittacus

Psittacus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,933
Clu said:
Think it is 10 episodes a season, and 1 special.

That was an okay episode, The Master is still the best thing about the episode, everyone else felt kinda...just around and he actually felt like he took the shit he was given and believed it. Hopefully we see more of him, and with how the episode ended we must.

The next part is about the spoilers posted earlier.
It really does seem like the timeless child is exactly what the spoilers say it is, after watching the episode and reading the spoilers it does seem like The Doctor and Master had lives before their original lives and then they got stabilized and because of that we got Doctor number 1 and so on. Does it really change the history though? I mean they always said the Doctor was a promise made.....I guess i can see why people are pissed and think its stupid, but I think its a 50+ year old show and sometimes you have to change something to keep it interesting in fresh. Because how many times can we listen to the doctor tell her/his companions the same origin story again and again.
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The Doctor shouldn't be a chosen one
 
Sign My Guestbook!

Sign My Guestbook!

Member
May 26, 2018
24,020
The wild thing is... if anyone ever truly fucks up canon, that's over 50 years of history burned to a crisp. Fun times, eh? Guess someone else would have to come in and retcon it if it were bad enough.
 
Protome

Protome

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,682
Remember when we got multiple series building up the Doctor as the last Time Lord and how it weighed on him and then Moffat just revived them all.

Nothing matters, just go along for the ride. Personally, those spoilers sound like nonsense to me and I'm excited to see them play out. I feel like regardless of how good it ends up they'll at least attempt to make it meaningful, unlike every throwaway twist Moffat threw in.
 
The Unsent

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,438
Protome said:
Remember when we got multiple series building up the Doctor as the last Time Lord and how it weighed on him and then Moffat just revived them all.

Nothing matters, just go along for the ride. Personally, those spoilers sound like nonsense to me and I'm excited to see them play out. I feel like regardless of how good it ends up they'll at least attempt to make it meaningful, unlike every throwaway twist Moffat threw in.
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I haven't read the spoilers but I want to keep an open mind, if some of the timelords survived and they can do a good story about the timeless child, then ok destroy Gallifrey again, as long as the pay off isn't just another time war, that wouldn't be for me.
 
Protome

Protome

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,682
♡♪!? said:
I haven't read the spoilers but I want to keep an open mind, if some of the timelords survived and they can do a good story about the timeless child, then ok destroy Gallifrey again, as long as the pay off isn't just another time war, that wouldn't be for me.
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Just in case you're worried, my post doesn't reference anything from the spoilers themselves. My Time Lord revival point was just pointing out the dumb retcons Moffat threw in and did very little with and clearly just did to have a twist in an episode.
 
The Unsent

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,438
Protome said:
Just in case you're worried, my post doesn't reference anything from the spoilers themselves. My Time Lord revival point was just pointing out the dumb retcons Moffat threw in and did very little with and clearly just did to have a twist in an episode.
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I'm sure Moffat could have done more with the timelords, but I loved when the doctor changed the result of the time war, was a very celebratory moment and just what the 50th anniversary needed, to show this hype was all worth something, and the ending of Heaven Sent and the first half of Hell Bent, I definitely wouldn't have changed one bit. :) The first half of Hell Bent where he shows, and time lords don't know what to do, the intensity of it. I loved it. The second half with all the messy Clara/hybrid stuff I didn't enjoy so much.
 
Starphanluke

Starphanluke

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Nov 15, 2017
7,336
I wish I could muster any joy for this show anymore. I used to love it so much.

Yet Chibnall continues to make the most uninteresting, repetitive decisions and the direction of the show feels so uninspired.
 
The Unsent

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,438
Starphanluke said:
I wish I could muster any joy for this show anymore. I used to love it so much.

Yet Chibnall continues to make the most uninteresting, repetitive decisions and the direction of the show feels so uninspired.
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Personally I feel this 2 parter was all right and showed promise, moved the story forward, wheras I was struggling with series 11 and find this an improvement so far.
 

Deleted member 7051

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14,254
Protome said:
Remember when we got multiple series building up the Doctor as the last Time Lord and how it weighed on him and then Moffat just revived them all.
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Eh, it wasn't just Moffat that revived them. They showed up at the very end of Tennant's run, where it was revealed the Time Lords were never wiped out - they were merely locked in time and sought to escape their prison.

Moffat kinda ignored that, though, since we definitely had Eleven say he killed all the Time Lords and marked their passing and of course the whole 50th anniversary thing was about undoing that.
 
Hellers

Hellers

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,381
Winny（๑•̀ㅂ•́）و said:
Eh, it wasn't just Moffat that revived them. They showed up at the very end of Tennant's run, where it was revealed the Time Lords were never wiped out - they were merely locked in time and sought to escape their prison.

Moffat kinda ignored that, though, since we definitely had Eleven say he killed all the Time Lords and marked their passing and of course the whole 50th anniversary thing was about undoing that.
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That scene with Rassilon was set (just) before the events with the War Doc, 10 and 11 and the saving of Gallifrey. Moffat didn't ignore anything.

*Edit* Also the entire point of the 50th thing was to show that the Doctor was mistaken. He never destroyed Gallifrey. It was always saved but he didn't realise. In a multi Doctor story only the most recent Doctor retains a memory of the events so 9th woke up after regeneration thinking he'd done what he originally planed to but didn't actually remember doing it.
 
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The Unsent

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,438
The moment was mentioned in the End of Time and Moffat dipicted it in a literal way, as a magic box, which I though was totally ok, ending the time war in an empty barn I though was a really interesting visual idea.
 

Deleted member 5028

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Sign My Guestbook! said:
The wild thing is... if anyone ever truly fucks up canon, that's over 50 years of history burned to a crisp. Fun times, eh? Guess someone else would have to come in and retcon it if it were bad enough.
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The whole season can be retconned as a simulation though in an attempt to trick the Doctor. Like that episode from 12's last season where none of them actually existed.
 
Rassilon

Rassilon

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Oct 27, 2017
10,589
UK
stolen from reddit

e6d417dcca41bebb023d57d3ff401bfa4e45536c.jpg
 
The Unsent

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,438
I hope this thread doesn't become half spoilers... I hate when unflattering spoilers comes out, because it affects my anticipaition with the story, knowing the storyline isn't likely to go anywhere fufilling. And personally I find Chibnall's episodes very middling but still would appreciate fresh expectations.
 
-shadow-

-shadow-

One Winged Slayer
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Oct 25, 2017
6,110
I quite liked the episode, but these two episodes were way too long. towards the end it felt way too long. The ending though, I'm excited despite what some others feel like. I haven't kept up with the spoilers whatsoever, so absolutely no idea how the story unfolds. So I'm going in for the best!

Gotta love YouTube though, starts recommending me Doctor Who videos again, and the gist comes down to:
Series 11: We want more Davies/Moffat Doctor Who, this sucks.
Series 12: It's too much like Davies/Moffat Doctor Who, this sucks.

I just... This fan base at times...
 
milamber182

milamber182

Member
Dec 15, 2017
7,727
Australia
Quick Mustard said:
The old "everything we were told was a lie" trope eh.
Honestly, if this somehow means they're wiping the original history and making out it was all a lie as indicated here, with Gallifrey being built on one, I really hope Chris fucks off after.
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Nothing RTD, Moffat or a bunch of New Adventure writers haven't done before. Hell, the classic writers like Robert Holmes made it up as they went along. It's not like Sydney Newman wrote a Doctor Who bible laying out the history of the Time Lords.

8bit said:
Thought the Master was cosplaying Troughton at the end. And fwiw i rather liked it.
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Didn't get a good look but the trousers looked familiar.
 
Dwebble

Dwebble

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,626
Interesting few weeks coming up- Chibnall's not writing again until the final two-parter, and we've got Ed Hime (It Takes You Away) next week, and Nina Metivier (who's new to the series) the week after.
 
milamber182

milamber182

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Dec 15, 2017
7,727
Australia
Strong follow-up to the premiere. It got bogged down in exposition a few times but otherwise very fun. Also a nice surprise that the seasonal arc is about Gallifreyan Origin Lore... but hopefully it's not just discarded completely until the finale. I also enjoyed the serious tonal shift for Jodie that came with the Master's reveal about Gallifrey.

8.5/10
 
milamber182

milamber182

Member
Dec 15, 2017
7,727
Australia
4.6 million viewers in the UK yesterday according to unofficial overnight figures.

The rating, representing 22.6% of the total viewing audience, was disappointing for the series making Doctor Who the fifth most popular show on British Television yesterday. Doctor Who was beaten by its ITV opposition, Dancing on Ice: The Launch, which had 5.14 million viewers.

Top for the day was the return of Call the Midwife, with 6.97 million viewers. Countryfile, the lead into Doctor Who, had 5.04 million. Football also did well with Match of the Day seen by 5.14 million during the afternoon.

 
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