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Doctor Who Series 12 |OT| Spyfall Is Where We Start
- Thread starter Paradox
- Start date
Missy was very clearly lying. She even lampshades it right after she finishes saying that.
From the Series 9 premiere:
MISSY: Since always. Since the Cloister Wars. Since the night he stole the moon and the President's wife. Since he was a little girl. One of those was a lie. Can you guess which one?
Then in the Series 9 finale:
CLARA: Was she, um, was she nice, the President's wife?
DOCTOR: Ah well that was a lie put about by the Sheboogans. It was the President's daughter. I didn't steal the moon, I lost it…
I love Moffat but I took this to mean that Missy wasn't lying about him being a little girl. Which never made sense to me.
It's Missy, she always presents everything weirdly regardless of what she's talking about it. I wouldn't read too deeply into it all.
To be fair, Gallifreyan kids aren't born with regeneration. They have to be given that power when they become Time Lords.
As Moffat said, you can also pretend, for your headcannon's sake, that the kid in the barn wasn't a young Doctor, but perhaps the Master, or a random kid if you insist on not wanting to accept Clara's role.
I think leaving enough room for that sort of interpretation is good for the Doctor's backstory. This is why the spoilers I've read in this thread (not the leaks though) annoy me personally. But perhaps they'll reveal something that gives some wiggle room in the later episodes, so we'll see.
I think leaving enough room for that sort of interpretation is good for the Doctor's backstory. This is why the spoilers I've read in this thread (not the leaks though) annoy me personally. But perhaps they'll reveal something that gives some wiggle room in the later episodes, so we'll see.
I think this most recent episode was the best of Chibnall's entire run so far and the first time I've found the show interesting since he took over. I would hesitate to make the show too much about the Doctor herself but since they've had nothing else of much interest going on for a while now, I'll take it. Beggars can't be choosers and Chibnall has certainly left me a beggar recently.
So....I just watch the judoon ep, and I can't really say how I feel about it because so much depends on how it's followed up on. As a starting point it was very good though. I wonder if this is season 6b or just riffing on the other regenerations from Brain of Morbius, and....
Please do not open the below spoiler button unless you've read all the future spoiler leaks that went about:
Please do not open the below spoiler button unless you've read all the future spoiler leaks that went about:
I wonder if the doctor's regens go all the way back to the beginning of gallifrey. could tie in with the timeless child...and the other, if chibbers is really going in a cartmelish direction
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Chibnall's comments about her being The Doctor and not a parallel universe one have alarmed me.
It wouldn't actually be a retcon. Deadly Assassin was the retcon iirc. Could be an un-retcon!
This was definitely the most entertaining episode of Chibnall's run up to now to me. I was just fun from beginning to end - I liked the characters, we got the long awaited return of Captain Jack, we got a Doctor that was positively on the edge of her seat, we got crazy story developments, a suprise reveal of a second Doctor (who in her short screen time also happened to be pretty badass - nice to see a more ruthless take on the character for a change) and it leaves a lot of intriguing questions for future episodes.
Of course, it also emphasised a few of the current run's weaknesses (it's a tad sad to see Jack's return "wasted" on having to separate the Doctor from her companions because the episode could have impossibly developed its dynamic with three companions around), the plot resolved itself a bit too quickly at the end (would have loved if Ruth and the Doctor stayed together for a while longer) and it's a big mystery whether Chibnall will have the chops to bring all of this to a satisfying conclusion, but right now? I'm definitely intrigued again and I look forward to the remaining episodes of the season.
Of course, it also emphasised a few of the current run's weaknesses (it's a tad sad to see Jack's return "wasted" on having to separate the Doctor from her companions because the episode could have impossibly developed its dynamic with three companions around), the plot resolved itself a bit too quickly at the end (would have loved if Ruth and the Doctor stayed together for a while longer) and it's a big mystery whether Chibnall will have the chops to bring all of this to a satisfying conclusion, but right now? I'm definitely intrigued again and I look forward to the remaining episodes of the season.
I don't know why- there's not a scrap of evidence that she was a parallel Doctor, and tonnes of evidence that she was the same person.
I don't really see any evidence that she exists within the Doctor's personal time stream at all. The fact that they both act like the same incarnation but neither of them remember the other one AND the Gallifrey they both reference is already destroyed in 13's timeline definitely reads as alternate to me.
There's never been any reason to doubt that Hartnell was the first Doctor, especially after he ran out of regenerations as 11.
Also, if she's an alternate dimension version of the Doctor they WOULD both read as the same person in the Sonic. What 13 should've done is try to scan and see how old she is.
So a potential break point for a hidden regeneration is between the Second and Third Doctors. After the Doctor regenerates into the Third Doctor, the Master begins to antagonize him on Earth. Perhaps Dhawan's Master is the incarnation immediately prior to Delgado's and this whole business of what he's discovered is a cause of his antagonism throughout the televised series? Would explain the apparent reversion of his character and there would be a general theme of 'weird stuff that happened between the Second and Third Doctor eras'.
OP
OP
The thing to bear in mind is that, even though S12 evidently hasn't held on to the mainstream audience it gained last series, Chibnall would have at least written stories with the knowledge that, particularly for a finale, he could potentially be catering to a ~8 million audience, 99% of whom don't have an intricate understanding of gaps in the Doctor's timeline.
This is still the era in which the Doctor feels the need to put on a Powerpoint presentation whenever a new alien comes on screen. Trying to explain detailed old-Who lore probably wouldn't get the breathing space.
This is still the era in which the Doctor feels the need to put on a Powerpoint presentation whenever a new alien comes on screen. Trying to explain detailed old-Who lore probably wouldn't get the breathing space.
Remember "Moffat lies"? I wouldn't take anything a Doctor Who showrunner says at face value.
Oh God, yeah, why the hell did Barrowman get pulled in then? You really gonna pull the trigger on a huge return like that and just have him babysit the threesome for 10 minutes before letting him fuck off?
C'moooooon, please say fucking sike.
So she is the first, hands down, no tricks or BS. Not sure how I feel about that. And no Cap. Jack the rest of the series, that part seems like he said that to get people to forget about him and then returns sometime this series as a final surprise!
"Hey it's really important that I find the Doctor. And I promise I'll be there when she needs me. Just not this season."
I loved that episode. Easily the most engaging of Chibnall's run. There's episodes i've enjoyed, but i've always felt a bit emotionally disconnected from it all. My interest in the show as a whole had really been waning. As soon as Captain Jack popped up, i suddenly felt a tinge of excitement. Then... everything else happened and i'm totally on board to see whatever comes next. Doctor Ruth was amazing.
No matter what happens next episode, reading the posts in this thread over the last 24 hours has shown an engagement by the fans into a story that I haven't seen in a long time. Great episode!
That last episode was like peak Moffat, but with a lack of details that left me confused. I'm just going to assume wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey shinanigans as to why a previous incarnation of the doctor is one no one has seen before. It felt like it was setting up to be a two-parter that just....ended.
Also, what version of the doctor would allow a fellow Gallifreyan to kill itself when past doctor knew the gun would backfire? And ripping the horn off a Judoon is very un-doctor like as well.
Also, what version of the doctor would allow a fellow Gallifreyan to kill itself when past doctor knew the gun would backfire? And ripping the horn off a Judoon is very un-doctor like as well.
Just finished watching. Holy. Shit. I loved Dr. Ruth! The Judoon! Jack!
I hope we get The Master, Ruth, and Jack in the series finale.
I hope we get The Master, Ruth, and Jack in the series finale.
This season is in my opinion much better than the last one and the 5th episode was the best so far.
But the writing of each episode is still all over the place. There are just to many characters and sometimes it feels like some storylines are only there that one of the "mates" has something to do.
And they should stop killing people to serve the plot. In the Tesla episode literally all workers at Edisons office were killed and no one cared afterwards.
But the writing of each episode is still all over the place. There are just to many characters and sometimes it feels like some storylines are only there that one of the "mates" has something to do.
And they should stop killing people to serve the plot. In the Tesla episode literally all workers at Edisons office were killed and no one cared afterwards.
Yeah it was freaking great.
Loved the end where she hears that Jack showed up and then she's questioning all the pieces plus the speech from the companions and then her yelling at the TARDIS about the distraction of the alarm.
LMAO when Jack met Graham and assumed he was The Doctor and then did it again with Yaz.
His entire reaction to the group was hilarious.
Also Barrowman's enthusiasm is just always contagious as hell lol.
"Not he, she"
"This I gotta see!"
I'd be surprised if he's not back relatively soon since his return is clearly a big deal, even getting the marketing on youtube.
That message was a damn good tease though.
Loved the end where she hears that Jack showed up and then she's questioning all the pieces plus the speech from the companions and then her yelling at the TARDIS about the distraction of the alarm.
LMAO when Jack met Graham and assumed he was The Doctor and then did it again with Yaz.
His entire reaction to the group was hilarious.
Also Barrowman's enthusiasm is just always contagious as hell lol.
"Not he, she"
"This I gotta see!"
Yeah it was great seeing him again and he made a great Tesla.
Hehe yeah, need moar.
I'd be surprised if he's not back relatively soon since his return is clearly a big deal, even getting the marketing on youtube.
That message was a damn good tease though.
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Even though we've mentioned in openly on the last pages, I guess just in case someone accidentally pops in before watching the ep still, since the embedded videos would be big images impossible to miss lol.
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Eh, the budget's definitely gone down but the last series was practically run by misers. A heavy emphasis on sets, costuming, and practical effects, with CG used extremely sparingly and camera tricks actively employed to minimize the need for CG as much as possible.
This series is at least acting more like it has something resembling a pre-Chibnall budget, though it does still significantly pale to the Moffat era using CG like a higher-budgeted CW show. Moffat really did just take all the money when he left, and it's a damn shame with respect to the current status of the show.
"It's more of a canal, really" made me guffaw much more than I ought to have.
It's sad in the year 2020 that is a headline that exists. I didn't once think about her the significance of her skin color, or even her gender.
I think at least 1 person dies in about 99% of all Doctor Who stories ever.
Don't forget the sequel