Doctor Who Series 12 |OT| Spyfall Is Where We Start

Drewton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,263
John Hurt's War Doctor actually made way more sense than not having him. It was clear that Eccleston was a new Doctor in Series 1.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,843
The Ocean
The Name of the Doctor wasn't as divisive because "there's a secret Doctor we haven't talked about up until now and it's JOHN HURT, look forward to him in the 50th!" isn't nearly as lore-destructive as "actually the Doctor is technically the first Time Lord and is the most special entity in the entire universe, we probably won't do anything more with it though".

It was setup, rather than a payoff.
The difference here is that there’s an on-screen story that was built around that barn, including a 12th Doctor story that showed the Doctor as a young boy on Gallifrey crying in a shed.

“He’ll never be a Time Lord” the make guardian says

It wasn’t a false memory as Clara was actually there but somehow Chibnall decided it’s incompatible with his vision of The Timeless Child. it’s also contrary to the watcher time lady from the end of time.

there was a natural unknown regeneration that happened for War Doctor because 8 never got more than a TV movie and we never saw the regeneration until we did.
This shit came out of nowhere and makes no narrative sense.
 

Drewton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,263
It wasn’t a false memory as Clara was actually there but somehow Chibnall decided it’s incompatible with his vision of The Timeless Child. it’s also contrary to the watcher time lady from the end of time.
I think in Chibnall’s world the Doctor somehow regenerates into a kid after living for possibly hundreds or thousands of years
 

Crimson

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,628
Name of the Doctor was the worst finale until The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos topped it. There's enough that I enjoyed about The Timeless Children that I'd still rank it higher too. Mostly carried by the Master.
 

Lynd

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,416
Kinda weird that any other lives before Hartnell would go by The Doctor. Ruth Doctor has to be before otherwise she would remember Jodie and she still interacts with the Timelords.

If memories were erased, why would the kid that grew into our current doctor have preciously ended up with the same title, morals etc.

It would be interesting to touch on previous lives where they are atypical of the doctors morals.

It’s kinda lame how long lived and integrated the doctors past is now. How does the doc reconcile living forever? They have been critical of that before.

I also dunno if I’m on board with the Timelords being a fabricated race. And the fact that they are utterly destroyed forever it seems. How do you rebuild the race/Gallifrey? I guess can just make up some ppl werent there..
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,504
England
I think in Chibnall’s world the Doctor somehow regenerates into a kid after living for possibly hundreds or thousands of years
If the story of Brendan is to be believed and the Doctor's memories were wiped after they served the Division across many regenerations, it's entirely possible the Time Lords forced a specific type of regeneration on them, turning them into a child, much like when the Eighth Doctor forced his regeneration into the War Doctor.

The child that Clara met would then be Hartnell's Doctor, shortly after the Time Lords redacted their memories and dumped them in the middle of nowhere.
 

Drewton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,263
If the story of Brendan is to be believed and the Doctor's memories were wiped after they served the Division across many regenerations, it's entirely possible the Time Lords forced a specific type of regeneration on them, turning them into a child, much like when the Eighth Doctor forced his regeneration into the War Doctor.

The child that Clara met would then be Hartnell's Doctor, shortly after the Time Lords redacted their memories and dumped them in the middle of nowhere.
Yes, and it’s stupid.
 

Htown

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,628
feels like Chibnall decided he didn't like the time lords, so he killed them all off and made it so the Doctor isn't actually a time lord, so he gets to make his own original-aliens-do-not-steal from the other universe that can be where the Doctor's REALLY from
 

Wallace Wells

Member
May 24, 2019
775
The thing is I have no idea who could potentially take over Chibnall as head writer. None of the current writers the show has enlisted has really stood out
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
40,413
Jamie Mathieson always impressed me. Shame he never got the nod; maybe just not enough experience?
They pretty clearly wanted to hire a SHOWRUNNER as head writer, and Mathieson as far as I know hasn't run a show yet.

This is probably part of the problem - the talents necessary to run a show and the talents necessary to write one don't always overlap, and it takes a very special kind of writer to be able to do both. Maybe they need a showrunner and a head writer working in tandem.
 
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Paradox

Paradox

Member
Oct 28, 2017
325
We didn't get a 100% definitive answer but in Series 9 it seems pretty clear that the Doctor and Clara together were the hybrid because they were so dangerous together. It's why the TARDIS was hostile towards Clara in Series 7.
I know Hell Bent kind of gets a short shrift around these parts, but I'd really recommend everyone reading this blog post on Giga Who, posted before The Timeless Children aired, basically looking back at Hell Bent and the Hybrid arc and how it works by purposefully avoiding a set definition: https://gigawho.wordpress.com/2020/02/29/everything-you-think-you-know-is-lore-and-everything-will-change-forever-more-again/

It kind of highlights my point that where Chibnall seems content to just pour a load of lore out on a script and be done with it, Moffat would often tease fanwanky lore stuff but then subvert it entirely in service of character.
 

Rox

Member
Dec 13, 2017
175
Ok I just watched that episode with Ruth and boy did she outshine Jodie by a mile!

But after reading what you all told me I really fear for this show....chibnall doesn't seem to know what's canon and is just throwing shit at the wall.

Doctor who really did finish with Capaldi for me.
 
Oct 27, 2017
813
Jamie Mathieson always impressed me. Shame he never got the nod; maybe just not enough experience?
Moffat had said many times that Chibnall, Gatiss, and Whithouse's scripts were the only ones he didn't touch, because they were already good, whereas he fixed the scripts of most of the other writers. With Gatiss uninterested, it was always going to be Chibnall or Whithouse. Whithouse blew his chance away with The Game, while Chibnall had a massive success with Broadchurch so...

I hope next series to be Chibnall's last, the show then can rest a few years and return in full creative force taking Dollard, Mathieson, and Harness back on board.
 

PaulloDEC

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,408
Australia
Since watching the finale I've been reading up on the old 7th Doctor/New Adventures Gallifrey backstory. They actually have the whole "The Doctor has a previous life before the 1st" in common, but they approach it very differently.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,504
England
Yes, and it’s stupid.
Oh totally.

I don't mind that the Doctor is credited with the functional immortality of the Time Lords since Rassilon is credited with their time travel technology, but the execution of it is horrible. The Doctor didn't give the Time Lords their immortality, the Time Lords stole it and then used the Doctor as a puppet for the Division to alter history as they desired?
 

PaulloDEC

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,408
Australia

Bradley Walsh and Tosin Cole exiting the show after the Christmas special. Mandip Gill is returning as Yaz next season.
For the love of god, please let it be just the Doctor and Yaz for a bit.
 
Oct 27, 2017
813

Yeah, Ellard's tweet notes are offering a good insight of what's the show is doing wrong.

El Sandifer's weekly Eruditorum reviews, while less "technical", are also good.
For the love of god, please let it be just the Doctor and Yaz for a bit.
If next series is Whittaker's last, I wonder if Yaz will stay for a fourth season to provide a smooth transition between Doctors, like Clara and Rose did.



Or maybe she could leave with Whittaker and they could introduce a secondary companion mid-season.
 

Dary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,820
The English Wilderness
Ever notice how often people refer to Thirteen as "Jodie's Doctor", but no one ever calls Ten "David's Doctor"?

Hartnel! Baker! McCoy! Eccleston! Hurt! Smith! Capaldi! Moffat! Chibnall!

Jodie.

Funny, that.
 

milamber182

Member
Dec 15, 2017
3,811
Australia
2nd companion who stays on while Yaz leaves. I prefer overlapping companions like the classic series but back then they didn't need to worry about season arcs and marketing I guess.
 
May 26, 2018
6,587
Ever notice how often people refer to Thirteen as "Jodie's Doctor", but no one ever calls Ten "David's Doctor"?

Hartnel! Baker! McCoy! Eccleston! Hurt! Smith! Capaldi! Moffat! Chibnall!

Jodie.

Funny, that.
I've heard Smith's Doctor and Capaldi's Doctor before. Generally they were from earlier days when people were still trying to get a hold on the new interpretation.
 

Naijaboy

The Fallen
Mar 13, 2018
4,049
So those machines were called CyberMasters... but most of us have been calling them CyberLords. I prefer the later.
 

Guppeth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,662
Sheffield, UK
I've heard Smith's Doctor and Capaldi's Doctor before. Generally they were from earlier days when people were still trying to get a hold on the new interpretation.
Smith and Capaldi, not Matt and Peter. That’s the difference. I have seen people say Whittaker but it’s less common.


So those machines were called CyberMasters... but most of us have been calling them CyberLords. I prefer the later.
I agree, but their inventor is an egomaniac so...
 

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,988
Walsh is the only companion that I wanted them to keep. Although it's probably too late to redeem any of the companions at this point and make them interesting. Might have been better going completely fresh.
 

Guppeth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,662
Sheffield, UK
Bradly Walsh is my favorite of the current companions so OF COURSE he is leaving... ugh! :/
I don’t mind. I said earlier in the thread that they’ve wasted Mandip Gill, so it’ll be good to focus on her for a bit. They’ve made much better use of Bradley Walsh.

I don’t think Tosin Cole is a good actor so I’m alright with him leaving.
 

Quick Mustard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
744
Hmm, the usual situation is after three series, The actor/actress playing The Doctor looks to bow out.
I wonder if we’ll get a series of specials or if we’ll get one more series and then another festive special with that special being the regeneration episode at the same time.
I’d go with the latter, seems to be more the norm.

I can only hope Chibnall goes as well and we can move on from this mostly mess of an era in Who.
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,072
Brazil
You people really are bad at knowing what makes someone a choosen one =P

The timeless children stuff has NOTHING to do with a choosen one stuff.
Clara being trown into the time stream making the doctor try to find her versions and therefore turning her into a companion is a choosen one stuff.

The timeless children stuff just make the doctor "not exactly a timelord" which ... is like the doctor being half human =P
Unique =/= choosen one


Bradley Walsh and Tosin Cole exiting the show after the Christmas special. Mandip Gill is returning as Yaz next season.
YES !

Love Bradley Walsh and Cole but the show is in desperate need of one companion only =P
 

mclem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,846
Could be any number of ways. Maybe the Doctor just left the moment lying in the barn and he just stumbled across that, or some other weapon left over from the time war.

I don't think it's something that really needs explaining, it doesn't seem to implausible that the Master could have done something that that to me, he's plenty resourceful.
Maybe not, but I think I'd quite like a Big Finish story that's just the Sacha Dhawan Master in the Barn talking to the Moment

who is, of course, played by Michelle Gomez
 

Dwebble

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,459
Please, just pare it down to one companion. Two at the absolute outside. We've been drowning in useless generic companions for way too long already.
 

BDS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,928
It should have been just the Doctor and Yaz from the beginning, or maybe them and Graham.

No offense to Tosin Cole, but Ryan is the blandest and most unnecessary companion since the classic era. He feels like he's there solely because the BBC demanded that a young male be part of the cast out of concern that boys would stop watching.
 

JediTimeBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,829
What do you think is the difference between NuWho and OldWho, that they managed to pull off multiple companions pre-2005...well pre-Colin Baker anywho...
 

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
6,968

Bradley Walsh and Tosin Cole exiting the show after the Christmas special. Mandip Gill is returning as Yaz next season.
I'm kind of glad.

I prefer Graham but Yaz is the only one with an actual potentially interesting relationship with the Doctor.


I don't think though that cutting the companions (granted involuntarily) down to 1 is gonna fix the issues. Because the issue is that these characters get almost no scenes of development whatsoever.