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Does Kingdom Hearts HAVE TO have Final Fantasy characters?

Do they have to be there?

  • Yes

    Votes: 537 61.1%
  • No

    Votes: 342 38.9%

  • Total voters
    879
Oct 25, 2017
7,308
Singapore
But they really don't have more stuff. I feel like there's less stuff to do overall than many past titles, especially post game. I have an Ultima Keyblade that I don't have much use for.
That's literally not true. KH games don't tend to have much post-game content at all in the initial releases. Sometimes people are confused by it because the English versions came out months after the JP releases and had one extra boss. The bulk of post-game content is usually injected in Final Mix re-releases a year after the JP release.

In terms of actual game content before it ends, KH3 has bigger worlds than ever before, both in size and in density and in variety. Just compare The Caribbean in KH3 with Port Royal in KH2. Or Olympus in KH3 with any of the Herc variations in previous KH games. Aside from physical content size, there's also the fact that worlds like The Caribbean and San Fransokyo are designed to have very different world mechanics than the rest of the game, and feel like unique experiences in themselves. This sort of design is really cool, but it does mean that if you wanna do stuff like that, you have to cut back in other areas.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,918
Yes.

Or at least SE characters in general. It’d be just as cool to see Schala and Lucca or something. More stuff like TWEWY.

But yes although the OCs are pretty FF-like sometimes, the crossover aspect of the series was still really cool.
 
Oct 27, 2017
457
I mean having the backseat would be better but I’m just saying the core engine is still there to support it. And the Disney worlds in KH3 are massive compared to KH2’s which had to make us go to them twice to pad out the running time so I’m not sure that’s really a valid excuse.

Making a bunch of small, flat hallways with loading screens in every room for the PS2 was a lot easier than the giant worlds of KH3 for modern day systems.
The worlds are alot bigger and more impressive visually, but seems like the same or less amount of content inside to be honest. 100 Acre Wood especially. I'm just not wholly convinced on the new direction but its too early too tell. We'll see in the next title. I thought in Birth by Sleep everything was alot better utilitized and it had the same formula worldwise.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,279
Singapore
Yes, to me Kingdom Hearts is supposed to be Square(enix) + Disney. And they already have them from the very beginning so it's weirder to not have them now.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,865
So why are you okay with them getting rid of the backseat? That's less content for everyone. We didn't even get more Disney worlds in return. Literally got less worlds than KH2 and less characters overall. Is that the future we want from the series?
There isn't less content, the Disney worlds generally feel like 5 times bigger to me. The size of Carribean world and San Fransokyo eclipse anything in the series before. The main reason KH 3 is the best game in the series is you really get a sense of scale of these worlds, even if there's less of them.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,532
That's literally not true. KH games don't tend to have much post-game content at all in the initial releases. Sometimes people are confused by it because the English versions came out months after the JP releases and had one extra boss. The bulk of post-game content is usually injected in Final Mix re-releases a year after the JP release.

In terms of actual game content before it ends, KH3 has bigger worlds than ever before, both in size and in density and in variety. Just compare The Caribbean in KH3 with Port Royal in KH2. Or Olympus in KH3 with any of the Herc variations in previous KH games. Aside from physical content size, there's also the fact that worlds like The Caribbean and San Fransokyo are designed to have very different world mechanics than the rest of the game, and feel like unique experiences in themselves. This sort of design is really cool, but it does mean that if you wanna do stuff like that, you have to cut back in other areas.
Variety is not true either as they are reduced to 1 to 2 areas. Visual variety took a big hit with this. Fransokyo was my most anticipated and biggest disappointment for being large and empty. I was hoping for a denser city, a concrete jungle to truly make use of my flowmotion abilities that I felt wasn't getting much utilization in some worlds, but everything is spread so far apart and enemies spread thin.

And the post game content in KH3 consists of you getting secret reports from battlegates and additional selfie poses from a couple of battlegates. Secret reports are normally gotten throughout the game and fills in gaps of knowledge while also still retaining mystery. Selfie poses are just plain baffling to be post game content because people who love that feature are hardly going to come back to the game after completing it.

Caribbean I did at least like somewhat but I felt like I wanted more still.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,308
Singapore
The worlds are alot bigger and more impressive visually, but seems like the same or less amount of content inside to be honest. 100 Acre Wood especially. I'm just not wholly convinced on the new direction but its too early too tell. We'll see in the next title. I thought in Birth by Sleep everything was alot better utilitized and it had the same formula worldwise.
I think everyone agrees that 100 Acre Wood was really bad and disappointing. They couldn't even come up with good minigames, instead we get a bad one repeated 3 times. That's the one aspect of the game which feels seriously half-assed, and it's sad they signed off on Pooh like that.

Plus. WHERE IS EEYORE?
 
Nov 13, 2017
50
Does KH really NEED Gummi Ship segments? Does it need voxel-based full ship customization and to be expanded to open space exploration? Does KH need more than the one iconic keyblade? Does it need each key to have multiple transformations with their own movesets? Does KH need to expand beyond the solid base of classic golden age Disney movies? Does Paper Mario really need memorable characters and plot? Do you see where I'm going with this?

Why does this sort of question even come up? What is the agenda against FF? Since when has KH been a minimalist indie game that strips away everything not core to its message? Get real, KH has always ever been a generous heaping mountain of riches that never stops piling upon your plate all that it can possibly offer.

So I don't think the argument needs to be made, but for whatever weird reason here we are. Ignoring the fact that in the real world the FF characters are beloved characters from beloved games made by the company making KH, and seeing them brings joy to people the same way random Disney characters do. Within the context of the game world, they primarily represent the populous of Radiant Garden, they were how you saw the fallout of what happens at Hollow Bastion in the first game, as opposed to it being some obscure background you read about in a file. They were victims of a benevolent leader who seemingly became corrupted and brought catastrophe. So now in 3 they give Ansem the Wise this awkward little redemption arc which cuts out the much broader context of his past, and focuses on what's really a gesture for a very small inner group of people he wronged. Meanwhile Sora speaks to Ienzo frequently throughout the game, many scenes take place around Radiant Garden, but you never get to go there and you never so much as see one of the FF residents despite how close it gets. All the Disney people who lived there get conveniently transplanted to Twilight Town, it all feels very odd how much they went out of their way to sweep all these characters from the game. You couldn't even have a one-off cut away scene to just show that the Radiant Garden reconstruction committee is still working at it? In a game where even Demyx and Luxord get some spotlight time??
 
Oct 25, 2017
15,003
I'll say yes. My wife and I are playing through 3 right now (both of us only played 1 & 2, never cared about the thousand offshoots) and we are probably around 3/4ths through the game and my wife LOVES the FF stuff, and she's super bummed we haven't come across any FF characters. I think that both Disney and FF should be roughly 50/50 represented in the game, that is what the series was founded on, but they strayed so far away from that, it just feels super weird.
It was never 50 50.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,532
I do really miss the colosseum. I was kinda hoping there would be one at some point, cause the large cage seemed ripe for colosseum cage matches for the gods.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,257
Red Grave City
They were missed in KHIII. They didn't have much of a role in II, but I still recall defending the gate with Leon, finding Cloud to tell him about Sephiroth, fighting them in the coliseum. KHIII felt lacking in this regard. For a series billed as "FF X Disney" I'm a little disappointed the big climax didn't feature a send-off for them. They deserved a little screentime, at least.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
457
I think everyone agrees that 100 Acre Wood was really bad and disappointing. They couldn't even come up with good minigames, instead we get a bad one repeated 3 times. That's the one aspect of the game which feels seriously half-assed, and it's sad they signed off on Pooh like that.

Plus. WHERE IS EEYORE?
It really felt like a waste! Could've just been a minigame on the gummiphone.
There isn't less content, the Disney worlds generally feel like 5 times bigger to me. The size of Carribean world and San Fransokyo eclipse anything in the series before. The main reason KH 3 is the best game in the series is you really get a sense of scale of these worlds, even if there's less of them.
Easily one of the best thing KH3 brings to the series is this new sense of scale that's present in basically every world. Very happy about it, they could've easily held back. Definitely have to give them props for that.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,749
I don’t think they add anything. To someone who isn’t that invested in Final Fantasy, they felt indistinguishable from the KH-exclusive characters, and 3 has a huge cast of anime prettyboys to focus on anyway

I do miss the Sephiroth fight though
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,865
Does KH really NEED Gummi Ship segments? Does it need voxel-based full ship customization and to be expanded to open space exploration? Does KH need more than the one iconic keyblade? Does it need each key to have multiple transformations with their own movesets? Does KH need to expand beyond the solid base of classic golden age Disney movies? Does Paper Mario really need memorable characters and plot? Do you see where I'm going with this?

Why does this sort of question even come up? What is the agenda against FF? Since when has KH been a minimalist indie game that strips away everything not core to its message? Get real, KH has always ever been a generous heaping mountain of riches that never stops piling upon your plate all that it can possibly offer.

So I don't think the argument needs to be made, but for whatever weird reason here we are. Ignoring the fact that in the real world the FF characters are beloved characters from beloved games made by the company making KH, and seeing them brings joy to people the same way random Disney characters do. Within the context of the game world, they primarily represent the populous of Radiant Garden, they were how you saw the fallout of what happens at Hollow Bastion in the first game, as opposed to it being some obscure background you read about in a file. They were victims of a benevolent leader who seemingly became corrupted and brought catastrophe. So now in 3 they give Ansem the Wise this awkward little redemption arc which cuts out the much broader context of his past, and focuses on what's really a gesture for a very small inner group of people he wronged. Meanwhile Sora speaks to Ienzo frequently throughout the game, many scenes take place around Radiant Garden, but you never get to go there and you never so much as see one of the FF residents despite how close it gets. All the Disney people who lived there get conveniently transplanted to Twilight Town, it all feels very odd how much they went out of their way to sweep all these characters from the game. You couldn't even have a one-off cut away scene to just show that the Radiant Garden reconstruction committee is still working at it? In a game where even Demyx and Luxord get some spotlight time??
My point is that it's not just one thing that people likes about the games, and just scalping part of what built the franchise because it's not critical is stupid. Just because the worlds are more of a draw isn't a good excuse to just excise other things.
I simply see it as an interesting question about the quality of the series' identity, like asking "Can KH 3 be a satisfying game without them?" Yes and so was BBS that hardly had any, that's not to say they Have to be exorcised. Actually makes me question why BBS is raved about then if people think these cameos are essential, SE could have found a way to glue on Sephiroth or loads of them if they wanted in that one. I feel like some people may overrembering how much they were in the old games.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,532
I simply see it as an interesting question about the quality of the series' identity, like asking "Can KH 3 be a satisfying game without them?" Yes and so was BBS that hardly had any, that's not to say they Have to be exorcised. Actually makes me question why BBS is raved about then if people think these cameos are essential, SE could have found a way to glue on Sephiroth or loads of them if they wanted in that one. I feel like some people may overrembering how much they were in the old games.
I don't think many have the same expectations for handheld titles like they do for the big console numbered titles. It's similar for something like Zelda, many have certain expectations of who and what will be in a console Zelda unlike the handheld counterparts which could have new villains and lands away from the normal lore and villains.
 
Oct 31, 2017
4,856
Yeah, sure. But I would like to have them play bigger roles, they were barely in KH2 and some of them were just talking GIFS, Aerith was just the worst.
 
May 9, 2018
66
While it doesn’t “HAVE TO” I think there should at least be some sort of Square Enix representation (like TWEWY or w/e). It is a crossover project between Square Enix and Disney after all.
 
Jan 24, 2018
691
The whole reason I got into KH was the draw of seeing old FF characters 3D modeled, voice acted, taking part in another story.
Seeing deep cuts like Setzer was off the wall and using Zack for a boss fight in a prequel made so much sense it was awesome. Used to speculate a ton with friends on who would appear in KH3.

Total BS they're not in.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,222
Yes, it's part of the series and it's charm. A KH game without FF characters is like a new Super Smash with 90% of it's non Nintendo characters removed.
 
Oct 26, 2017
81
In short I always saw Kingdom Hearts as a collaboration with Disney and Square so always expect to see properties from both, however I'm disappointed with how most FF characters have been used, but I do expect and think it needs Square rep in the games, from Final Fantasy to TWEWY to hell even have a bouncer world. For instance I would love for there have been Square worlds in the games, like imagine a Midgar world where you join Barrett and avalanche in their mission (have it follow beginning of FF7 up to the crushing of sector 7, but obviously have player preventing that outcome).
 

Aly

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,796
Need? No, but they are nice to have but even then I’m only interested in certain ones like FF7, FFX and the Leon. People who already have stories that need wrapping up.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,865
Alleged Superfans digging in their heels only because kh3 doesn't have any. Guarantee if it did have some they would be gassing up how essential they are to the series.
That's complete rubbish, in the last 3 mainline entries and the handheld entries clearly count, there were hardly any FF cameos. I found the FF cameos amusing because they felt random and a novelty, but that's basically all they were, here to find who the true ansem is, there's Cloud moping about Sephiroth, Setzer wants to challenge kids to a struggle, amusing but not essential.
 
I do miss this aspect, even if they never implemented them very well. After seeing Neku appear in Dream Drop Distance, I was even kind of excited, because I figured this would open the floodgates to Square's entire catalogue. I wouldn't mind dialling down on the Final Fantasy if Charlotte and Niccolo from Seiken Densetsu would be there instead for instance. Unfortunately we've reached a point in Kingdom Hearts where Final Fantasy is pretty much absent, and the Disney stuff straight up doesn't matter. That kind of goes against what I cared about in the first place. All the original KH stuff like the lore and characters are the parts I find optional. If there's one thing I wish Kingdom Hearts took from Final Fantasy, it would be that each entry in the series would start with a clean slate in the good old days. Instead we're getting the Nojima and Watanabe sequel-snowball approach, which works about as well in Final Fantasy as it does in Kingdom Hearts.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,531
FF characters specifically No? Square enix characters? Oh hell yeah. Whether its cloud or neku SE characters kinda gotta be there. With out them you are missing some of the essential mix that is kingdom hearts
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,865
Yes, it's part of the series and it's charm. A KH game without FF characters is like a new Super Smash with 90% of it's non Nintendo characters removed.
I respect your opinion but I would agree with your comparison if maybe there was more FF party members except from Auron. FF cameos which was more prominient in the series 13+ years ago aren't as important as that fighting game's playable roster.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,410
HAVE to? No. SHOULD? Yes, imo. But I am still a noob with the series so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Yes, it's part of the series and it's charm. A KH game without FF characters is like a new Super Smash with 90% of it's non Nintendo characters removed.
I would be OK with that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,865
You never visit, but you face time with characters from that world throughout the entire game (And we never visit the Colosseum because the game has a clear lack of side or post game content). : /

It makes ZERO sense for Ienzo and the other two to be the people you're talking two, or at least the only people you're talking to (and is especially jarring since the other two don't even have any lines). Those characters are literally just filling in a role that was occupied by Final Fantasy characters in previous games. Have Leon and co. be doing that instead of those characters. That would have been far more logical, and maybe less jarring because maybe they'd actually have gotten those voice actors.

There's no good reason for it, and the lengths people are going through to excuse it are pretty funny. We're talking about characters that exist in universe, and then cease to exist for no reason. It's clearly not a creative decision to make the game better or the story more cohesive. It's a business decision, or a compromise made due to time or budget or some other outside factor. It's like when two characters fall in love at the end of a movie, and then are broken up in the sequel because the actors had scheduling conflicts.

Obviously we don't need every single FF character to return, and we don't need constant new cameos or things like that. But, at the very least, the characters from Radiant Garden were very important and had a vested interest in what's going on with Sora and Ansem, the Organization, Maleficent, etc.

It doesn't make sense within the fiction for them to not appear, and like many other things in the game, feels like a compromise, and hurts the experience.
I think the ex organization characters makes more sense because they know more about Roxas' relevance in the story.
 
Nov 6, 2018
24
No, I don't think so.

In all honesty, the FF characters always seemed a little bit out of place to me - even more so than the Disney ones.

As time went by and FF characters appeared less and less I just figured that the original KH characters and the original story had become the FF part in the FF x Disney cross over.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,242
The series was sold as FF x Disney, thats what Kingdom Hearts was.
With the FF characters being cut out more and more the series went to not even feeling like itself.

Now it personally feels like some convoluted Japanese mess with Disney just tacked on(despite being the entire point).

Honestly its why my hype was so low for 3 as it seemed heavily Nomura wanted them out.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,865
People are still saying no?

Yes because a lot of us managed to enjoy nearly all the new games released over the last 13 years that hardly had them. I wonder If the question was "Do you like the cameos?" Yes I agree, the series has done fine without them which is more to do with the poll.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,261
I mean it been like this for awhile did you play any games after Chain of Memories?
To be fair II did still feel like more of a crossover, and a lot of people ducked out after II.

I personally never thought of KH as a Disney FF crossover. Just a game with cameos. I’d like to see more cameos in the future though.
 
Jan 23, 2019
106
It's nice if they are there, but they don't HAVE to be there, especially if Nomura wants to keep introducing them the way he did in KH2. That Vivi cameo is still calling for justice.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,532
Handheld titles generally are smaller titles and they will not have a whole lot of characters or worlds. And that's where expectations are. Chain of Memories has the FF characters on Destiny Island. And Leon and Yufie are present in Re:Coded, thanking Data-Sora for keeping Traverse Town safe. BBS has Zack. Dream Drop distance may not have FF characters but they do have Square Enix characters from TWEWY and I would still count them among the crossover cast similar to FF because they aren't original characters or Disney. Plus, they are aware of other worlds just like FF characters are. Then of course KH1 and KH2 having a bunch of FF characters.

Anyone bringing up 358/2 days needs to go play that game and see how simple and boring that game is and how miniscule the worlds are that you're limited to very small areas doing very tedious missions like following Pete around a small area in Agrabah. The Organization is concerned about only one thing, and that's hearts and heartless. And you're always revisiting the same area over and over and over and over and over and over again.

A console Kingdom Hearts has much higher expectations from fans, because these main numbered titles are the big sellers as no one seems to really give a crap about the handheld stuff and what's in them.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
3,257
Red Grave City
Seifer and Setzer appear in the first hour of II, with Hayner acting as a Zell stand-in. These guys barely affect the plot in any way, but it still helps in making the series feel like a crossover. I just can't picture how III couldn't have something similar. And a mainline Kingdom Hearts game without a Sephiroth superboss just doesn't feel complete.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,532
Actually, no. Nomura said it was mostly for publicity before establishing his own characters and lore.
At the very least he could do more to write them out than to just not having them in the games if he truly doesn't want them. Cause there's still some unresolved stuff with a few characters who had their own subplots going.