Does Kingdom Hearts HAVE TO have Final Fantasy characters?

Do they have to be there?

  • Yes

    Votes: 537 61.1%
  • No

    Votes: 342 38.9%

  • Total voters
    879
Oct 25, 2017
2,415
Handheld titles generally are smaller titles and they will not have a whole lot of characters or worlds. And that's where expectations are. Chain of Memories has the FF characters on Destiny Island. And Leon and Yufie are present in Re:Coded, thanking Data-Sora for keeping Traverse Town safe. BBS has Zack. Dream Drop distance may not have FF characters but they do have Square Enix characters from TWEWY and I would still count them among the crossover cast similar to FF because they aren't original characters or Disney. Plus, they are aware of other worlds just like FF characters are. Then of course KH1 and KH2 having a bunch of FF characters.

Anyone bringing up 358/2 days needs to go play that game and see how simple and boring that game is and how miniscule the worlds are that you're limited to very small areas doing very tedious missions like following Pete around a small area in Agrabah. The Organization is concerned about only one thing, and that's hearts and heartless. And you're always revisiting the same area over and over and over and over and over and over again.

A console Kingdom Hearts has much higher expectations from fans, because these main numbered titles are the big sellers as no one seems to really give a crap about the handheld stuff and what's in them.
Sorry I just think that's rubbish, 'smaller characters... worlds' maybe not as much but you can fit loads of characters in a handheld game. They could have cut a few Disney characters and replaced them with FF cameos in they wanted to in the handheld games. BBS and DDD are main entries and helped set the future of the series which had included a bare amount of FF cameos going forward in the last ten years. These games were pretty good and I disagree with downplaying them to support the idea a KH game can't be a satisfying experience without these cameos, which is what 'have to be' in the poll would otherwise suggest.
 
Oct 25, 2017
374
Since I only played IX, only Vivi showing up in KH2 gave me any kind of excitement, but like the rest of the Square characters they were poorly voice acted, awkward, and felt like they did nothing but just exist for most of the games. Remember that time Tifa punched the wall in Ansem's study and that was it? That was important.

They were just never given the respect the Disney properties had in the games. If they were given larger roles that would be amazing even as a non-FF fan, but they were so boring post KH1 that they killed the crossover before it could get good.

Also the sooner I could forget about the FFX-2 faeries the better.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,415
Going by the poll results, looks like maybe I shouldn't recommend BBS, DDD or KH 3 to most people here interested in the series since Zack is the only FF main character you're going to have.
 
Oct 27, 2017
648
I wouldn't mind FF chars, but they are not essential to the story but are more akin to cameos in appearance and personality than characters taken out from its origins.

I wouldn't call Kingdom Hearts an mix of final fantasy and Disney anymore, but instead Final Fantasy inspired Disney.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,890
It was one of the few things unique to it outside of the Disney tie-in.

Other than that, it's a weak story propped up by at times acceptable gameplay, other times good gameplay.

So for Square to nuke that potential crossover was absolutely brain dead. Terrible IP management and a lack of foresight into one of the unique and exciting abilities they had with the IP.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,923
Sorry I just think that's rubbish, 'smaller characters... worlds' maybe not as much but you can fit loads of characters in a handheld game. They could have cut a few Disney characters and replaced them with FF cameos in they wanted to in the handheld games. BBS and DDD are main entries and helped set the future of the series which had included a bare amount of FF cameos going forward in the last ten years. These games were pretty good and I disagree with downplaying them to support the idea a KH game can't be a satisfying experience without these cameos, which is what 'have to be' in the poll would otherwise suggest.
Well I mean the handhelds mostly relied on very specific story hooks and gimmicks too of going to previously visited worlds. CoM is Sora losing his memories so you're going to see the same old stuff, Re:Coded is diving into a digital version of Jiminy's Journals and you're going to see a lot of the same old stuff like a sort of retelling of KH1 with lots of new twists, 358/2 days stayed clear of a lot of moments with a greater focus on the Organization and collecting hearts and siphoning memories from Sora as a side B to CoM. BBS also has overlap with revisting the same worlds because you go through the game 3 times as 3 different characters, and DDD has you going to sleeping worlds, with some of them you've already been to and everything largely being empty or some frozen in time retelling the same Disney movies over and over as if living through a movie without outside interference.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,415
At the very least he could do more to write them out than to just not having them in the games if he truly doesn't want them. Cause there's still some unresolved stuff with a few characters who had their own subplots going.
I don't know, I thought they found their home in Radiant Garden and found what they were looking for. I suppose they could have another optional and third Sephiroth fight to settle Cloud's score whatever but it's hardly something I need to have to enjoy the finale to the Xehonort saga.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,415
Well I mean the handhelds mostly relied on very specific story hooks and gimmicks too of going to previously visited worlds. CoM is Sora losing his memories so you're going to see the same old stuff, Re:Coded is diving into a digital version of Jiminy's Journals and you're going to see a lot of the same old stuff like a sort of retelling of KH1 with lots of new twists, 358/2 days stayed clear of a lot of moments with a greater focus on the Organization and collecting hearts and siphoning memories from Sora as a side B to CoM. BBS also has overlap with revisting the same worlds because you go through the game 3 times as 3 different characters, and DDD has you going to sleeping worlds, with some of them you've already been to and everything largely being empty or some frozen in time retelling the same Disney movies over and over as if living through a movie without outside interference.
Does sound to me you're dismissing those installments as gimmicky, or so you can stretch your head around to make them excempt from the idea which is that the last few good KH games could be good enough without the need for a bunch of FF cameos. And for example when I see some of the nice ways 3 builds from BBS and its protagonists, I'm going to suggest it should be relevant to the expectation.
 
Oct 25, 2017
18,127
Seeing fellow kh fans being weird over ff characters now is still odd to me. I still say it didn’t start in bulk until that nomura interview during 3’s development then ppl started acting like they never did nothing ever
 
Jan 24, 2018
267
It's not so much the lack of new FF characters in KH3 for me, but the missed presence of already established ones.

Cloud and Sephiroth (and Auron) at the Olympus Collosseum.
Seifer, Fuujin and Raijin in Twilight Town with the Struggle matches. (And Vivi!)
Leon, Cid, Aeris and Yuffie in the Radiant Garden cutscenes.

The Twilight Town FF characters get mentioned by random NPCs, but it's such a lack of effort. I understand if they don't bring up Tarzan or Jack Skellington again because they're locked in their own worlds - but it seems that they're actively removing characters from the hub-worlds, and that's a little disappointing.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,415
Seeing fellow kh fans being weird over ff characters now is still odd to me. I still say it didn’t start in bulk until that nomura interview during 3’s development then ppl started acting like they never did nothing ever
I think this might be a fallacy, because I can both appreciate some secondary roles for FF characters in one world or two, but at the same time think the lead characters and the bigger Disney emphasis could be more appropriately described as 'have to be there' to enjoy the last few games.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,605
Long Island
No, I stopped playing Final Fantasy years ago, the series fell off a cliff to me. Having a Moogle is good enough for me. Throw Cid in a shop somewhere would be a nice added touch.

I buy Kingdon Hearts because it's a good action Disney game and that's it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,923
Does sound to me you're dismissing those installments as gimmicky, so you can stretch your head around to make them excempt from the idea which is that the last few good KH games could be good enough without the need for a bunch of FF cameos. And for example when I see some of the nice ways 3 builds from BBS and its protagonists, I'm going to suggest it should be relevant to the expectation.
I'm not at all. I'm also discussing the limitations of the story hooks and how it doesn't bring in very many returning or new characters, especially of the FF side and the FF characters that are there are part of Sora's memories and retellings. New characters in BBS are mainly the main cast with hardly new or returning characters outside of Disney and young versions of certain characters like Sora, Riku, and Kairi.

TWEWY was at least wholly unique and very much well recieved as it finally brought something from the Square side again that wasn't rehashed from previous titles. I remember so many people being hype to see TWEWY in KH. It was bigger announcement for some than a new Disney world. But people also want to see what's been going on with the FF characters too just like they want to revist a couple of older Disney worlds like Agrabah (which still needs to get through its 3rd movie btw). And all the FF characters that were in a majority of the handheld titles were only memories. And the only returning world in BBS was Olympus and it made sense to see Zack there, seeing as the colosseum was also a pretty prominent place to find all sorts of Disney and FF heroes and villains there. I definitely would have at least like a young Leon, for sure, and Laguna was planned for BBS but was cut in favor of putting him in Dissidia 012. Laguna would have been cool seeing how there are similarities with the whole Zack and Cloud, and Laguna and Leon thing.

EDIT: And revisting a world 3 times is going to have its limitations on what characters will appear. FF characters mainly stick to original worlds and Olympus. You won't find them wondering what's going on with Snow White. They're either out fighting, or doing stuff in the original made worlds like Radiant Garden/Hollow Bastion, Traverse Town, etc.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
2,415
It's not so much the lack of new FF characters in KH3 for me, but the missed presence of already established ones.

Cloud and Sephiroth (and Auron) at the Olympus Collosseum.
Seifer, Fuujin and Raijin in Twilight Town with the Struggle matches. (And Vivi!)
Leon, Cid, Aeris and Yuffie in the Radiant Garden cutscenes.

The Twilight Town FF characters get mentioned by random NPCs, but it's such a lack of effort. I understand if they don't bring up Tarzan or Jack Skellington again because they're locked in their own worlds - but it seems that they're actively removing characters from the hub-worlds, and that's a little disappointing.
I'm guessing they didn't think TT was as important this time, so it's only a more expanded sector and having the FF cameos there might feel like they didn't have enough space to do them justice. I'm sure if they wanted to they would have found a way though to fit them in somewhere.
 
Nov 21, 2018
289
Yes because it's what Kindom Gearts is, a team-up between FF and Disney characters, no matter what people say to justify the decision to not include a single character from FF in 3. Of course it's not for the plot, that is a mess and during 3/4 of the game absolutely nothing happens plot related so SE could put as many FF characters as they wanted.
 

Jawmuncher

Crisis Dino - Snake is in Smash
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,129
Ibis Island
Yes, just because that was always my favorite part of the series. So I was rather disappointed that so far the most FF the game has is a statue of Cloud and Auron in a cutscene.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,597
If FF was there too people would complain it's more 'anime' than there already complaints of it

I don't get these anime complaints
 
Oct 29, 2017
2,303
To me, that was part of the IPs original appeal, take the Disney characters with the Square FF characters (why not other S-E characters?) and put them in a game. As the focus has declined from the FF aspect and has grown to the Organization 13 and other confusing periphery characters have taken center stage, I just haven't found them very appealing, and my interest waned in the series.
Looking at it now, it seems like the FF characters were used to bring in skeptical Square fans into the series, then they were booted out the door once no longer needed.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,301
No they don't. Kingdom Hearts has never been a crossover or "mash-up" or "FF meets Disney". The FF/SE characters were basically cameos to attract FF fans to the series. They aren't really needed as evidenced by their absence in KH3.
 
Oct 28, 2017
28
Yes, because the FF part is one of the reasons why I wnted this game and it existed in the first place, to see such wildly different worlds interact with which other. It feels the games have lost part of their identity since KH2.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,415
Yes because it's what Kindom Gearts is, a team-up between FF and Disney characters, no matter what people say to justify the decision to not include a single character from FF in 3. Of course it's not for the plot, that is a mess and during 3/4 of the game absolutely nothing happens plot related so SE could put as many FF characters as they wanted.
The FF crossover is kind of the point of the damn thing so yes
No it wasn't, there's no FF characters even on the covers. They're not advertised as the main draw, which is Disney meets the style of Square which is why at first original characters like Sora, Riku and Kairi instead to mostly represent Square's style (with FF characters as extras) I guess the time the series had something like a big cinemactic team up with FF was like in hollow bastion with some heartless fights in 2. I don't need to justify it, that's what it is.
 
Dec 26, 2018
54
France
I like that Kingdom Hearts can almost emancipate itself with its own lore and stories, so I think they don't have to feature FF characters

But I miss FF-themed bosses (even if there are FF-typed-heartlesses).
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,794
Canada
This is a Disney crossover series, not a Disney and Final Fantasy crossover series. The Final Fantasy characters were always just minor cameos to attract the JRPG audience. But at this point the series has been around for 17 years and has built up its own cast of character where stuff like that isn't necessary anymore. Like they aren't even the same FF characters to begin with.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,094
FF is full of videogame icons that millions around the world love and was definitely part of the appeal of the first game. Chrono Trigger and other IP would have been cool too if however unlikely, but now it seems its gone in the opposite direction and almost all trace of classic Squaresoft is gone.
 
Oct 28, 2017
385
Yes...really badly.

Watching Sora and his crew spin their wheels in place while shallow Disney caricatures are trotted out for a series of cameos isn't really for me.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,098
I was playing through Kingdom Hearts, planning to finish the first two and then pick up the third. When I found out that they have essentially dropped the Final Fantasy connection I just stopped. No thanks.
 
Jan 1, 2018
210
Newmarket, UK
Leon and crew helping out Sora in the first game was kinda wholesome. I didn't get as much out of it in 2 (the segment where each one comes to help you before the 1k heartless battle was great), but Auron being in the Hades world made way too much sense. One off inclusions like Auron and old established FF characters coming back would be my personal preference. Would like to see the TWEWY cast come back some time too, especially since they felt a bit wasted in DDD.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,680
Meh, they always did a piss poor job of implementing FF anyway. Squall reminding Sora of his mission briefly(power of friendship speech mostly), Cloud and others in a colosseum, fighting Setzer and Vivi in the KH2 tutorial for whatever throwaway reason.

As a fan it’s at least nice to have some familiarity among the nonsense I guess, but I never felt the treatment to be satisfying. Minimum effort at best from the getgo, they barely were involved.

But I suppose the optional bosses are considered staple by now for hardcore fans, so their removal for KH3 is rather disappointing.
 
Nov 30, 2017
5,959
I don't think it needs it, but there's no harm in having them or any sort of Square-Enix representation.

I did appreciate the Square cameo they put in III, even though it's a pretty obscure nod to one of the more niche works in their portfolio.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,864
Kingdom Hearts was better as a crossover. As has been said by others, the complete excising of the FF characters feels forced as opposed to some natural progression in the narrative, and is a negative for the series.
 
Nov 30, 2017
5,959
Meh, they always did a piss poor job of implementing FF anyway. Squall reminding Sora of his mission briefly(power of friendship speech mostly), Cloud and others in a colosseum, fighting Setzer and Vivi in the KH2 tutorial for whatever throwaway reason.
Some are hit and miss (practically every cameo in Twilight Town is just flat out weird), but I think they did a good job with most of them. Cid being a mechanic and resident Gummi Ship expert is a great nod to his space travel ambitions from FFVII, using the main villain of their most well known game as an optional superboss was a pretty great move, pretty much everything with Auron in KH2 works well thematically with what you know of his character from FFX, and works within the setting of that particular Disney world and Squall arguably makes for a more likable and tolerable KH character than he does a FF protagonist. Hell, the way he's portrayed in KH is a more natural progression of his character development from his original game than the caricature he tends to be in most actual Final Fantasy branded material (Dissidia, for example)

Most FF games are their own little balls of nonsense anyway, so I've always found it neat to see nice little alternate interpretations of them in the series without the baggage, even if they're just a little extra flavor to add to worlds instead of being important, prominent characters.