Final Fantasy characters kind of in general suck to be honest, and the ones that don't suck Nomura has a shit take on them anyway (Cloud).
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Does Kingdom Hearts HAVE TO have Final Fantasy characters?
- Thread starter Septimus Prime
- Start date
That's literally not true. KH games don't tend to have much post-game content at all in the initial releases. Sometimes people are confused by it because the English versions came out months after the JP releases and had one extra boss. The bulk of post-game content is usually injected in Final Mix re-releases a year after the JP release.
In terms of actual game content before it ends, KH3 has bigger worlds than ever before, both in size and in density and in variety. Just compare The Caribbean in KH3 with Port Royal in KH2. Or Olympus in KH3 with any of the Herc variations in previous KH games. Aside from physical content size, there's also the fact that worlds like The Caribbean and San Fransokyo are designed to have very different world mechanics than the rest of the game, and feel like unique experiences in themselves. This sort of design is really cool, but it does mean that if you wanna do stuff like that, you have to cut back in other areas.
The worlds are alot bigger and more impressive visually, but seems like the same or less amount of content inside to be honest. 100 Acre Wood especially. I'm just not wholly convinced on the new direction but its too early too tell. We'll see in the next title. I thought in Birth by Sleep everything was alot better utilitized and it had the same formula worldwise.
There isn't less content, the Disney worlds generally feel like 5 times bigger to me. The size of Carribean world and San Fransokyo eclipse anything in the series before. The main reason KH 3 is the best game in the series is you really get a sense of scale of these worlds, even if there's less of them.
Variety is not true either as they are reduced to 1 to 2 areas. Visual variety took a big hit with this. Fransokyo was my most anticipated and biggest disappointment for being large and empty. I was hoping for a denser city, a concrete jungle to truly make use of my flowmotion abilities that I felt wasn't getting much utilization in some worlds, but everything is spread so far apart and enemies spread thin.
And the post game content in KH3 consists of you getting secret reports from battlegates and additional selfie poses from a couple of battlegates. Secret reports are normally gotten throughout the game and fills in gaps of knowledge while also still retaining mystery. Selfie poses are just plain baffling to be post game content because people who love that feature are hardly going to come back to the game after completing it.
Caribbean I did at least like somewhat but I felt like I wanted more still.
I think everyone agrees that 100 Acre Wood was really bad and disappointing. They couldn't even come up with good minigames, instead we get a bad one repeated 3 times. That's the one aspect of the game which feels seriously half-assed, and it's sad they signed off on Pooh like that.
Plus. WHERE IS EEYORE?
Does KH really NEED Gummi Ship segments? Does it need voxel-based full ship customization and to be expanded to open space exploration? Does KH need more than the one iconic keyblade? Does it need each key to have multiple transformations with their own movesets? Does KH need to expand beyond the solid base of classic golden age Disney movies? Does Paper Mario really need memorable characters and plot? Do you see where I'm going with this?
Why does this sort of question even come up? What is the agenda against FF? Since when has KH been a minimalist indie game that strips away everything not core to its message? Get real, KH has always ever been a generous heaping mountain of riches that never stops piling upon your plate all that it can possibly offer.
So I don't think the argument needs to be made, but for whatever weird reason here we are. Ignoring the fact that in the real world the FF characters are beloved characters from beloved games made by the company making KH, and seeing them brings joy to people the same way random Disney characters do. Within the context of the game world, they primarily represent the populous of Radiant Garden, they were how you saw the fallout of what happens at Hollow Bastion in the first game, as opposed to it being some obscure background you read about in a file. They were victims of a benevolent leader who seemingly became corrupted and brought catastrophe. So now in 3 they give Ansem the Wise this awkward little redemption arc which cuts out the much broader context of his past, and focuses on what's really a gesture for a very small inner group of people he wronged. Meanwhile Sora speaks to Ienzo frequently throughout the game, many scenes take place around Radiant Garden, but you never get to go there and you never so much as see one of the FF residents despite how close it gets. All the Disney people who lived there get conveniently transplanted to Twilight Town, it all feels very odd how much they went out of their way to sweep all these characters from the game. You couldn't even have a one-off cut away scene to just show that the Radiant Garden reconstruction committee is still working at it? In a game where even Demyx and Luxord get some spotlight time??
Why does this sort of question even come up? What is the agenda against FF? Since when has KH been a minimalist indie game that strips away everything not core to its message? Get real, KH has always ever been a generous heaping mountain of riches that never stops piling upon your plate all that it can possibly offer.
So I don't think the argument needs to be made, but for whatever weird reason here we are. Ignoring the fact that in the real world the FF characters are beloved characters from beloved games made by the company making KH, and seeing them brings joy to people the same way random Disney characters do. Within the context of the game world, they primarily represent the populous of Radiant Garden, they were how you saw the fallout of what happens at Hollow Bastion in the first game, as opposed to it being some obscure background you read about in a file. They were victims of a benevolent leader who seemingly became corrupted and brought catastrophe. So now in 3 they give Ansem the Wise this awkward little redemption arc which cuts out the much broader context of his past, and focuses on what's really a gesture for a very small inner group of people he wronged. Meanwhile Sora speaks to Ienzo frequently throughout the game, many scenes take place around Radiant Garden, but you never get to go there and you never so much as see one of the FF residents despite how close it gets. All the Disney people who lived there get conveniently transplanted to Twilight Town, it all feels very odd how much they went out of their way to sweep all these characters from the game. You couldn't even have a one-off cut away scene to just show that the Radiant Garden reconstruction committee is still working at it? In a game where even Demyx and Luxord get some spotlight time??
They were missed in KHIII. They didn't have much of a role in II, but I still recall defending the gate with Leon, finding Cloud to tell him about Sephiroth, fighting them in the coliseum. KHIII felt lacking in this regard. For a series billed as "FF X Disney" I'm a little disappointed the big climax didn't feature a send-off for them. They deserved a little screentime, at least.
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It really felt like a waste! Could've just been a minigame on the gummiphone.
Easily one of the best thing KH3 brings to the series is this new sense of scale that's present in basically every world. Very happy about it, they could've easily held back. Definitely have to give them props for that.
I simply see it as an interesting question about the quality of the series' identity, like asking "Can KH 3 be a satisfying game without them?" Yes and so was BBS that hardly had any, that's not to say they Have to be exorcised. Actually makes me question why BBS is raved about then if people think these cameos are essential, SE could have found a way to glue on Sephiroth or loads of them if they wanted in that one. I feel like some people may overrembering how much they were in the old games.
It's actually what drew me to the series in the first place. At least more so than Disney. Bummed to hear that kh3 doesn't really have any.
I don't think many have the same expectations for handheld titles like they do for the big console numbered titles. It's similar for something like Zelda, many have certain expectations of who and what will be in a console Zelda unlike the handheld counterparts which could have new villains and lands away from the normal lore and villains.
While it doesn't "HAVE TO" I think there should at least be some sort of Square Enix representation (like TWEWY or w/e). It is a crossover project between Square Enix and Disney after all.
People are still saying no?
Alleged Superfans digging in their heels only because kh3 doesn't have any. Guarantee if it did have some they would be gassing up how essential they are to the series.
The whole reason I got into KH was the draw of seeing old FF characters 3D modeled, voice acted, taking part in another story.
Seeing deep cuts like Setzer was off the wall and using Zack for a boss fight in a prequel made so much sense it was awesome. Used to speculate a ton with friends on who would appear in KH3.
Total BS they're not in.
Seeing deep cuts like Setzer was off the wall and using Zack for a boss fight in a prequel made so much sense it was awesome. Used to speculate a ton with friends on who would appear in KH3.
Total BS they're not in.
Nomura prolly thought that a certain tribute would be enough... lmao he was wrong. Watch the Final Mix version have Lightning, Noctis and freaking Yuna.
The anime characters from KH are more or less FF characters anyway, but still a yes to Lightning, Noctis and Sephiroth.
In short I always saw Kingdom Hearts as a collaboration with Disney and Square so always expect to see properties from both, however I'm disappointed with how most FF characters have been used, but I do expect and think it needs Square rep in the games, from Final Fantasy to TWEWY to hell even have a bouncer world. For instance I would love for there have been Square worlds in the games, like imagine a Midgar world where you join Barrett and avalanche in their mission (have it follow beginning of FF7 up to the crushing of sector 7, but obviously have player preventing that outcome).
That's complete rubbish, in the last 3 mainline entries and the handheld entries clearly count, there were hardly any FF cameos. I found the FF cameos amusing because they felt random and a novelty, but that's basically all they were, here to find who the true ansem is, there's Cloud moping about Sephiroth, Setzer wants to challenge kids to a struggle, amusing but not essential.
I do miss this aspect, even if they never implemented them very well. After seeing Neku appear in Dream Drop Distance, I was even kind of excited, because I figured this would open the floodgates to Square's entire catalogue. I wouldn't mind dialling down on the Final Fantasy if Charlotte and Niccolo from Seiken Densetsu would be there instead for instance. Unfortunately we've reached a point in Kingdom Hearts where Final Fantasy is pretty much absent, and the Disney stuff straight up doesn't matter. That kind of goes against what I cared about in the first place. All the original KH stuff like the lore and characters are the parts I find optional. If there's one thing I wish Kingdom Hearts took from Final Fantasy, it would be that each entry in the series would start with a clean slate in the good old days. Instead we're getting the Nojima and Watanabe sequel-snowball approach, which works about as well in Final Fantasy as it does in Kingdom Hearts.
I respect your opinion but I would agree with your comparison if maybe there was more FF party members except from Auron. FF cameos which was more prominient in the series 13+ years ago aren't as important as that fighting game's playable roster.
HAVE to? No. SHOULD? Yes, imo. But I am still a noob with the series so take what I say with a grain of salt.
I would be OK with that.
I would be OK with that.
I think the ex organization characters makes more sense because they know more about Roxas' relevance in the story.
No, I don't think so.
In all honesty, the FF characters always seemed a little bit out of place to me - even more so than the Disney ones.
As time went by and FF characters appeared less and less I just figured that the original KH characters and the original story had become the FF part in the FF x Disney cross over.
In all honesty, the FF characters always seemed a little bit out of place to me - even more so than the Disney ones.
As time went by and FF characters appeared less and less I just figured that the original KH characters and the original story had become the FF part in the FF x Disney cross over.
The series was sold as FF x Disney, thats what Kingdom Hearts was.
With the FF characters being cut out more and more the series went to not even feeling like itself.
Now it personally feels like some convoluted Japanese mess with Disney just tacked on(despite being the entire point).
Honestly its why my hype was so low for 3 as it seemed heavily Nomura wanted them out.
With the FF characters being cut out more and more the series went to not even feeling like itself.
Now it personally feels like some convoluted Japanese mess with Disney just tacked on(despite being the entire point).
Honestly its why my hype was so low for 3 as it seemed heavily Nomura wanted them out.
Yes because a lot of us managed to enjoy nearly all the new games released over the last 13 years that hardly had them. I wonder If the question was "Do you like the cameos?" Yes I agree, the series has done fine without them which is more to do with the poll.People are still saying no?
I mean it been like this for awhile did you play any games after Chain of Memories?
To be fair II did still feel like more of a crossover, and a lot of people ducked out after II.
I personally never thought of KH as a Disney FF crossover. Just a game with cameos. I'd like to see more cameos in the future though.
Not really, the main cast has become ridiculous enough they stand for FF characters at this point
Considering their story arcs are closed for the most part, no. The cameos were cool, but they weren't needed after KH2.
I guess the game don't absolutely need it but it's pretty disappointing when it's left out. some of my favorite kh moments involved them.
Handheld titles generally are smaller titles and they will not have a whole lot of characters or worlds. And that's where expectations are. Chain of Memories has the FF characters on Destiny Island. And Leon and Yufie are present in Re:Coded, thanking Data-Sora for keeping Traverse Town safe. BBS has Zack. Dream Drop distance may not have FF characters but they do have Square Enix characters from TWEWY and I would still count them among the crossover cast similar to FF because they aren't original characters or Disney. Plus, they are aware of other worlds just like FF characters are. Then of course KH1 and KH2 having a bunch of FF characters.
Anyone bringing up 358/2 days needs to go play that game and see how simple and boring that game is and how miniscule the worlds are that you're limited to very small areas doing very tedious missions like following Pete around a small area in Agrabah. The Organization is concerned about only one thing, and that's hearts and heartless. And you're always revisiting the same area over and over and over and over and over and over again.
A console Kingdom Hearts has much higher expectations from fans, because these main numbered titles are the big sellers as no one seems to really give a crap about the handheld stuff and what's in them.
Anyone bringing up 358/2 days needs to go play that game and see how simple and boring that game is and how miniscule the worlds are that you're limited to very small areas doing very tedious missions like following Pete around a small area in Agrabah. The Organization is concerned about only one thing, and that's hearts and heartless. And you're always revisiting the same area over and over and over and over and over and over again.
A console Kingdom Hearts has much higher expectations from fans, because these main numbered titles are the big sellers as no one seems to really give a crap about the handheld stuff and what's in them.
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It's not. Disney owns KH entirely and it was never a mashup of the two. It's Disney Original Characters visiting Disney Classics with Square Enix cameos.
Seifer and Setzer appear in the first hour of II, with Hayner acting as a Zell stand-in. These guys barely affect the plot in any way, but it still helps in making the series feel like a crossover. I just can't picture how III couldn't have something similar. And a mainline Kingdom Hearts game without a Sephiroth superboss just doesn't feel complete.
Actually, no. Nomura said it was mostly for publicity before establishing his own characters and lore.
At the very least he could do more to write them out than to just not having them in the games if he truly doesn't want them. Cause there's still some unresolved stuff with a few characters who had their own subplots going.