They were such a cool addition to the series. What they did with makes me want to play it less.
Yes a good kingdom hearts game needs final fantasy characters it's why the series even existed in first place.
Kingdom Hearts was better as a crossover. As has been said by others, the complete excising of the FF characters feels forced as opposed to some natural progression in the narrative, and is a negative for the series.
It doesn't feel forced at all, though. Those characters haven't been relevant in years. The last time we had any notable FF presence was in 2006. Sora and co have largely moved on and don't need to be going back to Leon for help (and he never really cared about anything outside of Radiant Garden anyway).
It's been a pretty natural progression as the main plot moves in a different direction that the FF stuff gets left behind. 3 was busy enough and had enough characters without having a whole section with Sora going off to Radiant Garden to dick around with Leon, Yuffie and Cloud for an hour or so.
But they're not. The ending was just as impactful without them because of the many games building up the OC's beyond just 1 & 2.Alleged Superfans digging in their heels only because kh3 doesn't have any. Guarantee if it did have some they would be gassing up how essential they are to the series.
Nope. FF was never essential. The franchise was never FF + Disney, it was Disney Originals + Disney Classics with SE cameos. That's what the series was in game one and it hasn't changed. Let die this revisionism that the FF side was ever important in Kingdom Hearts. Also, the majority of games in the franchise have no FF characters save moogles.Alleged Superfans digging in their heels only because kh3 doesn't have any. Guarantee if it did have some they would be gassing up how essential they are to the series.
Nope. FF was never essential. The franchise was never FF + Disney, it was Disney Originals + Disney Classics with SE cameos. That's what the series was in game one and it hasn't changed. Let die this revisionism that the FF side was ever important in Kingdom Hearts. Also, the majority of games in the franchise have no FF characters save moogles.
Nope. FF was never essential. The franchise was never FF + Disney, it was Disney Originals + Disney Classics with SE cameos. That's what the series was in game one and it hasn't changed. Let die this revisionism that the FF side was ever important in Kingdom Hearts. Also, the majority of games in the franchise have no FF characters save moogles.
Keep pretending that KH has to have FF cameos.
Okay, but that doesn't make FF have equal standing with Disney in Kingdom Hearts. Furthermore, that doesn't refute my statement. FF isn't the important part of KH and the games don't have to have FF cameos. KH3 isn't broken because there's no cameos.A lot of people bought the first game because of the crossover appeal. I wouldn't have given it the time of day if Cloud wasn't in it.
Okay, but that doesn't make FF have equal standing with Disney in Kingdom Hearts. Furthermore, that doesn't refute literally anything in my statement.
61% of people polled agree that it does so you're just acting like a delusional fanboy when you dismiss the importance of it.
I bought the game in 2002 for the FF characters as well as the Disney Characters. Don't gaslight people by saying it isn't important to the DNA of the series.
It isn't important to the DNA of the series, as evidenced by the fact that the series has gotten by just fine with virtually no Final Fantasy cameos over the past 13 years, and that 3 is the fastest selling game ever in the series.
It's fine that you personally liked that stuff, but it was never important to the DNA of the series.
Nope.Alleged Superfans digging in their heels only because kh3 doesn't have any. Guarantee if it did have some they would be gassing up how essential they are to the series.
A majority can be wrong. "Do they have to be there?" is provably false, considering that there are a number of KH games that don't have any. And I'm not letting you shift the goalposts to some FF influences bullshit when the conversation is about cameos.61% of people polled agree that it does so you're just acting like a delusional fanboy when you dismiss the importance of it.
I bought the game in 2002 for the FF characters as well as the Disney Characters. Don't gaslight people by saying it isn't important to the DNA of the series.
And yet the last couple of games have had positively shitty side content without them. Especially KH3 and Dream Drop Distance.
It isn't important to the DNA of the series, as evidenced by the fact that the series has gotten by just fine with virtually no Final Fantasy cameos over the past 13 years, and that 3 is the fastest selling game ever in the series.
It's fine that you personally liked that stuff, but it was never important to the DNA of the series.
The lack of FF isn't what causes a lack of post game. Sepheroth is 1 boss. What are you talking about?And yet the last couple of games have had positively shitty side content without them. Especially KH3 and Dream Drop Distance.
3 probably has the best side content of any first release game ever in the series (although some of the previous western releases had more due to adding a lot after the Japanese release).
DDD was a little more bare, but it was still a fine game.
The lack of FF isn't what causes a lack of post game. Sepheroth is 1 boss. What are you talking about?
Thats hardly a ton of content, though. KH2 had little post game until FM and FM added strictly KH content.The side content in 3 is all minigames, though. If you want actual combat challenges or arena fights you're stuck grinding Dark Inferno over and over again.
Both DDD and 3 have one superboss each and neither superboss is cool or fun to fight. Even BBS had more.
The Paradox Cups also had you fight Cloud, Leon, Tifa and Yuffie. Arena battles are fun.
A majority can be wrong. "Do they have to be there?" is provably false, considering that there are a number of KH games that don't have any. And I'm not letting you shift the goalposts to some FF influences bullshit when the conversation is about cameos.
Furthermore, miss me with some "61% of people polled" when there's less than 1000 people people responding. You dare accuse me of gaslighting? FOH.
Stop misusing the word gaslight."Do they have to be there" is not a literal question, you're being purposely pedantic. I didn't shift a single goal post, you're just trying to gaslight away people's love for these characters and the impact they had in 1 and 2.
Thats hardly a ton of content, though. KH2 had little post game until FM and FM added strictly KH content.
Gotten by just fine by having some of the worst entries of it's lifespan? Not that FF characters would have magically fixed that, but It definitely would have elevated 3 for me. Because as it stands I don't care how much 3 sold, it is pretty disappointing to a heck of a lot of people.
The side content in 3 is all minigames, though. If you want actual combat challenges or arena fights you're stuck grinding Dark Inferno over and over again.
Both DDD and 3 have one superboss each and neither superboss is cool or fun to fight. Even BBS had more.
"Do they have to be there" is not a literal question, you're being purposely pedantic. I didn't shift a single goal post, you're just trying to gaslight away people's love for these characters and the impact they had in 1 and 2.
BBS has one Superboss in the initial release. More were added with the NA localization and Final Mix. Every KH has 1 boss until its overhauled. We basically got KH3 at the same time as Japan, so one boss. There's a lot to be added in Final Mix as per the usual.Both DDD and 3 have one superboss each and neither superboss is cool or fun to fight. Even BBS had more
What is the actual premise of this thread? And don't use words you do understand.Do they have to be there" is not a literal question, you're being purposely pedantic. I didn't shift a single goal post, you're just trying to gaslight away people's love for these characters and the impact they had in 1 and 2.
3 also has the battle gates and lucky emblems. And remember that the western release of BBS had a lot of extra content added that wasn't in the original Japanese release. Significant post game content always comes later with Kingdom Hearts.
BBS has one Superboss in the initial release. More were added with the NA localization and Final Mix. Every KH has 1 boss until its overhauled. We basically got KH3 at the same time as Japan, so one boss. There's a lot to be added in Final Mix as per the usual.
Oh I'm well aware. (KH3 spoiler warning)I'm aware, yeah. But without stuff like the Coliseum/Mirage Arena, you're basically stuck...sledding and collecting crabs. There's only two Flash Tracer stages and once you beat them both that's it. It just kind of feels lackluster overall.
It adds to the experience, but they are not needed for the core story. I did miss seeing Cloud and Squa-----LEON in KH3.
I actually thought that Olympus is historically the best at utilizing FF characters. I would have loved if for example Snow Villers was in Arendelle. Doing stuff like that would have been pretty amazing. My argument is that they aren't crucial even if they can tend to be beneficial.I at least give them props for trying to cache each world's side content within the context of that world. It's cool and it's something the series DIDN'T do before.
But the fact we have Olympus and there's no way to access the Coliseum and fight expanding groups of enemies or cameo boss battles feels like an absolute missed opportunity. Hell, they could even contextualize it as Zeus holding some sort of tournament for the gods to watch up at the top of Olympus if they don't want to reuse the Coliseum ITSELF again.
I actually thought that Olympus is historically the best at utilizing FF characters. I would have loved if for example Snow Villers was in Arendelle. Doing stuff like that would have been pretty amazing. My argument is that they aren't crucial even if they can tend to be beneficial.
Like, this thread is literally phrased does KH have to have FF characters and that's a flat no, votes be damned. We've had games without them and as Nomura himself stated KH doesn't need FF anymore. It was only ever there to entice people. Framing it as necessary to the series is just false.