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Does some people still believe that 60 is not mandatory for next gen consoles?

fourfourfun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,386
England
Ahh, the classic "it's got more power so it'll be 60fps guaranteed right?" argument.

The power will be used for visuals and 30 fps.

This won't change. It's been true for a long ass time. Being pretty sells, not being fluid.
This one. It’ll be 4k30.

You can basically pick two of the following:

Mass market price
Top tier graphics
60fps

That’s just how it happens.
 

Kuosi

Member
Oct 30, 2017
962
Finland
Most of the folk wouldnt notice 4k game running at half the resolution either, which is about what would it take to run 4k 30fps title at 60. There's a reason DF uses wild zoom in levels
 

Anomander

Member
Oct 27, 2017
371

Check this video at 5:49 and use the 60 fps 1080 resolution from youtube ( the video is linked on that exact spot anyways ).. I can't believe you if you say that you don't notice a difference between pc and console.

The game looks 100% more smooth and fluid on PC because of the 60 fps.. the console version is locked 30 with good framepacing and even with that the PC version is far superior on the smooth camera movement and fluid animations.
Human eye can't see beyond 24fps. #truthfact
 
Oct 27, 2017
581
That doesn't make a lot of sense when even a £300 GPU is going to be far better than consoles. If you were buying £600-1200 ones then you clearly did care at some point.
Show me a £300 GPU that can play 4K games with Ray Tracing...

The equivalent PC of next gen specs would cost over £1000 to build.

I've never had a super fast PC and played most games at 30fps on PC anyway and the games that did run at 60fps didn't improve the experience for me.
 

jaymzi

Member
Jul 22, 2019
840
Don't more and more games these days offer the graphics or performance mode these days?

Let the consumers choose.
 

TatteredHat

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,164
That's why I got a gaming PC in the first place, why not have the best of both worlds. Gameplay is sacrificed for marketing material way too often.
 

adumb

Member
Aug 17, 2019
510
I've been playing video games my whole life and I honestly couldn't give a shit if it's 30 or 60. What are the games I'm currently playing running at? Not a clue.

If it's there for the people that want it then great? But it's not something I notice or care about.
 

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,742
It isn't "mandatory", because if it were, then the consoles would be targeting that, and they won't be. Just like every generation since going HD the consoles will target 30fps so they can try to push more pixels than ever before. Now not only will they be trying to display new, or demanding graphical techniques, they will also try targeting a native 4K on top of that. I don't really see this cycle breaking anytime soon either. Certain developers can target 60fps for their games if they want, but it's not a system wide mandate. You can't sell frame rates in commercials.

Consoles were never the place to look to get 60fps or higher anyway since at least gen 7. Having said that, it's hard for me to comprehend someone not being able to tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps. Even if you can't "see" it, you can definitely feel it, especially after you've acclimated to playing at a higher frame rate and then cut it in half.
 
Jan 21, 2019
986
So I sat down and created a list of all the PS4 games I have played and their resolution.

All in all, on my PS4 pro, I have played:
20 30fps games
39 60fps games
6 above 30 fps games that don't go all the way to 60.

So all in all I usually play 60 fps games and sometimes with long stretches exclusively with 60 fps. I also only play Singleplayer games, so the only MP game on this list is Overwatch. I also counted all collections as 1 game per collection. The Nathan Drake Collection is counted as 1 game.

So here are my thoughts. Some of the games that go for 60 but can't reach it are probably bottlenecked by the CPU and won't have a problem next gen. But there will always be dev studios who want to push graphics and that's fine, too. If that's their vision they should have it. It's not like we are flooded with 30fps games as you can see from my collection.
 

Vash63

Member
Oct 28, 2017
758
Show me a £300 GPU that can play 4K games with Ray Tracing...

The equivalent PC of next gen specs would cost over £1000 to build.

I've never had a super fast PC and played most games at 30fps on PC anyway and the games that did run at 60fps didn't improve the experience for me.
Who said anything about 4k with ray tracing? Way to move goalposts. Show me a console that runs games at 4k with ray tracing. Maybe at the end of next year once 7nm Nvidia cards are out and PS5 is out we can compare the two, but that's not really a relevant discussion today.
 

Protome

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,409

Praglik

Member
Nov 3, 2017
50
People need to understand that doubling the framerate almost always mean doubling the render cost.
Quadrupling the resolution from 1080p to 4k means quadrupling the render cost.

You're not going to suddenly get 8 times more horsepower to have a Red Dead Redemption 3 with the same visual quality as RDR2 at 4k/60fps...

Although devs always come up with smart tricks (like Temporal Anti-Aliasing) every generation, and those help a lot more :)
 

Imp the Dimp

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,838
I sit less than 2m away from a 55" 4K TV and I find the difference between 1440p and 4K hard to discern if I'm being completely honest. Make no mistake, 4K looks great but so does 1440p. It's the resolution where everything starts looking very sharp and I personally don't find the performance hit 4K entails justifiable. 1080p looks pretty washed in comparison to 1440p, but if consoles could eventually settle for 1440p/60 instead of 4K/30, that'd be pretty neat. I really love consoles, but the 30 FPS standard is hard to stomach honestly.

I'm actually not sure if I would pass a blind test telling 1440p and 4K apart.
 

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,742
30fps is not a bad experience for me.
But if that shit dips a lot, its awful.
Some games handle 30fps better than others, and as long as the game remains at a locked 30fps, after a few minutes I can acclimate to it. I'd also rather play a game that's locked at 30fps than one that's "uncapped" with a variable frame rate that might jump up to 45fps. That, coupled with frame pacing issues just makes the experience awful. Given a choice, I will always choose a locked 60fps, but barring that, the second best is a locked 30fps and no frame pacing problems.

I sit less than 2m away from a 55" 4K TV and I find the difference between 1440p and 4K hard to discern if I'm being completely honest. Make no mistake, 4K looks great but so does 1440p. It's the resolution where everything starts looking very sharp and I personally don't find the performance hit 4K entails justifiable. 1080p looks pretty washed in comparison to 1440p, but if consoles could eventually settle for 1440p/60 instead of 4K/30, that'd be pretty neat. I really love consoles, but the 30 FPS standard is hard to stomach honestly.

I'm actually not sure if I would pass a blind test telling 1440p and 4K apart.
I'm about the same in that regard, and it's also why I will always play at 1440p/60 over 4K/30 on PC. Hopefully that won't really be an issue next spring when the new GPUs release though. I can tell in side by side comparison screenshots, but I can't really tell while a game is actually in motion.
 
Feb 10, 2018
15,736
Some games handle 30fps better than others, and as long as the game remains at a locked 30fps, after a few minutes I can acclimate to it. I'd also rather play a game that's locked at 30fps than one that's "uncapped" with a variable frame rate that might jump up to 45fps. That, coupled with frame pacing issues just makes the experience awful. Given a choice, I will always choose a locked 60fps, but barring that, the second best is a locked 30fps and no frame pacing problems.
I'm a bit of an odd case where bad dips below 30 are awful but games that are 40-60fps I'm fine with, I played fallout 4 @ 40-60fps @ 720p on a AMDr7260 core i7 920 pc and it looked great.
 

Jimnymebob

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,374
To all the people saying it's not mandatory:
Neither is 30 FPS.
Evidently, which is why we're still getting games that aren't even hitting that, as well as things on Xbox One S especially that aren't even hitting 1080p and still struggling to hit 30fps.

That being said, as a default standard, 30fps is obviously an easier target to hit next gen as the bare minimum.
 

____

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,364
Miami, FL

Check this video at 5:49 and use the 60 fps 1080 resolution from youtube ( the video is linked on that exact spot anyways ).. I can't believe you if you say that you don't notice a difference between pc and console.

The game looks 100% more smooth and fluid on PC because of the 60 fps.. the console version is locked 30 with good framepacing and even with that the PC version is far superior on the smooth camera movement and fluid animations.
I’m not trying to be dense (and in full disclosure am watching this on mobile so that could 100% be it), but I honestly can’t really tell. I can perhaps trick my mind into thinking I see a difference but the truth is if you hadn’t pointed out which one was smoother (and labels removed) I would have not been able to guess.

I think that’s my personal biggest thing here, it doesn’t seem like a game-changer in any discernible way to my eyes and the other 2 versions certainly don’t look broken or unplayable as some would suggest.

I’m not saying 60fps doesn’t have its benefits. Clearly it does as I’ve heard this discussion for years on years on years, but because this is an enthusiast board where we tend to get granular, I just don’t think it matters as much in the grand scheme of things to most people.
 

Elephant

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,085
Nottingham, UK
If they can make their game run at 60fps then great, but not everyone has the development time to make sure every single aspect of their game is perfect. I'd rather they prioritised other aspects of their game, without having to meet this "mandatory" goal.
 

RivalGT

Member
Dec 13, 2017
1,437
We can have both... Or more really. Don't limit yourself to 60, TVs already support more than 60hz these days. But still I don't believe we should limit devs on what they want to make.
 
Oct 27, 2017
581
Who said anything about 4k with ray tracing? Way to move goalposts. Show me a console that runs games at 4k with ray tracing. Maybe at the end of next year once 7nm Nvidia cards are out and PS5 is out we can compare the two, but that's not really a relevant discussion today.
This is a thread about next gen consoles.....
 

boi

Member
Nov 1, 2017
994
No, it isn´t. when you don´t care it is okay but it is not "overrated"
There is a huge fixation on frame rates and resolutions. Ports of games are literally declared inferior when they run half the framerate although it is the same game and you will enjoy the games almost equally as much.
 

Ventilaator

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
276
"We're going to get 60fps now, right?" is one of those evergreen thread premises that will 100% still be asked about the next consoles and the ones after that and the ones after that and the ones after that.

This is never going to be a thing.
 

Vash63

Member
Oct 28, 2017
758
This is a thread about next gen consoles.....
You really think either console is going to do 4k with raytracing? Either way you don't know the price or performance of them and to compare a 2020 console to 2018 GPUs isn't exactly a fair comparison. You can look historically though and see that you don't need to spend anywhere near the numbers you were saying to compete against a PS4 even with 2013-2014 era GPUs.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,098
Mount Airy, MD
I won't say "never", but I doubt that this generation coming up will be any different than the current one when it comes to "60 fps standard". Some games will have it, or have an option for lower graphic settings and 60 fps, but it will hardly be the norm, much less mandatory.
 

dmix90

Member
Oct 25, 2017
670
Russian Federation
Stable 30fps is perfectly fine especially if game is designed with that target in mind.

Leave framerate chasing to MP focused games and PC, give me that sweet sweet graphics and simulations on next gen consoles.
 

Shugga

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,682
If most people find it superfluous and don't care about it, it's overrated. If it's that important, go play on PC, don't force your tastes and choices on developers.
There's no other way around this.
Or it's just that people are used to subpar product but no that cannot be, consoles are always right yada yada
 

Sulik2

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,098
Hitting 60FPS on locked power consoles is incredibly difficult and normally requires graphical compromises especially as the console ages. It's got nothing to do with lazy devs. And when the vast majority of average gamers can't notice 60fps it just doesn't make sense to strive for it a d it really doesn't make sense to require it as a console manufacturer. If you absolutely must have 60fps PC is really your only option because you can always brute force the power there to hit it.
 

dedge

Member
Sep 15, 2019
209
One of my favorite things this gen was getting multiple performance/resolution options on certain games. I hope that becomes standard.
 

Azurik

Member
Nov 5, 2017
1,319
My Next gen preference

SP Games -> cinematic 4K/30 with all graphical bells and whistles. Even unlocked FPS should be no issue thanks to my telly supporting VRR.

MP games -> smooth 4/60
 

Niosai

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,096
30 FPS is fine. 60 will never be "mandatory" and that's also fine. 60 is nice, but I'd rather have a locked 30 FPS than a jittery 60, anyways.
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,766
Barcelona Spain
On every thread I check about performance and framerates I still see people saying that "30 fps is fine" "I can't even see the difference from 30 to 60" etc.

Next gen is coming in 1 year and I really hope games will ran at 60 fps. I don't care about native 4k or RTX stuff.

All I need are 60 fps games on any resolution.. use any techniques that you need to reach even a "fake" 4k o whatever you want to do with it.. but please just secure those sweet 60 fps.
You use the wrong platform. You probably need to switch to PC platform.