Oh, so you still hadn't read anything in the thread.
Lol
Dog attacks commuter on NYC subway
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Lol
If you are going to make a response like this, it wouldn't hurt to actually link the post you want a person to read.
Anyways, I agree with decreasing the breed's numbers or even outright extinction, but not by actually killing them off. Ban them, neuter the ones alive and the amount of Pitbulls would be in drastically lower number eventually. Any and every time I hear of someone getting or thinking of getting a Pit or a Rott, it is always about their aggressive nature and being trained as guard dogs by the owners. Not saying that it is always for that reason, but there is a reason asshats are attracted to these dogs and the vast majority of dog owners do not know how to train their dogs, which is where their aggressive nature makes it even more dangerous.
http://dogtime.com/dog-health/general/1220-american-pit-bull-terrier-temperament-dog-bites
People see these current dog attack stats and immediately blame the breed without even looking for what the root issue is. I'll ask again, where were all this pitbull attacks pre 1980's?
All of this has been addressed multiple times throughout the thread, including the same stuff you just suggested.
It doesn't work and it's a bad idea. There are ways to combat dumb people from getting dogs that can pose a threat to people. Trying to eliminate a breed is not the way to go about it.
Yea they are clearly not dangerous, I have a 6 inch scar across my calf from a pitbull bite.
Do you have data on ratio of breeds in dog attacks pre-1980 or are you complaining about data that just wasn't collected.
Yeahhh, some crazy people in this thread. Pitbulls are fine, as with any dog if the owner doesn't train it right that's the owners fault.
I'm not asking for data, I'm asking for evidence, reports, stories, anything that proves this breed is inherently viscous. All these attacks are happening now, there should be evidence that it happened in the past as well.
Just because it doesn’t come off as a big deal doesn’t mean it’s not thread worthy. If I started seeing multiple threads about this happening in different places it wouldn’t bother me in the least.
I'm clearly not illiterate as can be seen from my previous posts in the thread. -_-
I will however say that I took that comment the wrong way, and your way of solving the problem is a lot more civilized than most in this thread. But I still don't understand why the owners don't have to take responsibility for the actions of the dog they probably trained to be violent.
Well I’m in agreement with the posters who point out that bad owners give good owners a bad name - but I’d be careful in assuming bad owners train their dogs to be violent - in fact I think the vast majority come from owners who simply didn’t train them properly, or enough, rather than teaching them to attack people. And that problem is going to be really hard to fix, because people are jerks in significant proportions.
This isn’t one of those numerous stories about the beloved family pitbull who was trained perfectly and was a loving dog his whole life, but snapped one day, 10 years in, and ripped off grandma’s face. So this WILL be a thread where pit lovers try to blame the whole thing on bad owners.
I know just from owning other breeds of terrier that they cannot be 100% conditioned out of snapping at some point and going on a single-minded attack at something. They are terriers, they are all bred to kill.
I don’t have kids, but if I did I would never let them hang around a pit, because being there if they are attacked is not even close to good enough.
In my opinion, you’re a bad owner simply for owning an animal which you cannot physically pry off of someone they are attacking.
I know just from owning other breeds of terrier that they cannot be 100% conditioned out of snapping at some point and going on a single-minded attack at something. They are terriers, they are all bred to kill.
I don’t have kids, but if I did I would never let them hang around a pit, because being there if they are attacked is not even close to good enough.
In my opinion, you’re a bad owner simply for owning an animal which you cannot physically pry off of someone they are attacking.
I would've used a lot more force to get that dog off that foot - as the owner! I would've, like, definitely punched my pooch until it attacked me instead. I'd even go as far as to pry open its mouth myself. I've had some strong dogs before where I've had to do that before, usually going after a cat or something in the yard, sometimes it could just be over food in the kitchen with my other dog (R.I.P. to both of those dogs.)
Sometimes you literally have to use your body weight to bring 'em down. Don't be afraid to get in there, y'know? Pits are massively strong, but I could diffuse the situation I'm pretty certain.
It sucks but it's good training lol
I just wanna say, my dogs have never ever gone after a human. The only one I had trouble training was a rott-doberman mix. She was a fucking monster with any other kind of animal. I, to this day, have no clue why that was. She lived with a few dogs and a few cats at home with us which she was good with most of the time. But outside animals? It was a different story. We just called her neurotic, like to an insane degree sometimes lol
CrocM summed up the last paragraph pretty well:
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Its not the fucking dogs, its the owners. Fucksakes people. Stop breedshaming just because you see it in the media doesnt mean its factually true everytime. I used to take care of several pitbulls and non of them come out like this.
That's great that you were a good owner. The problem is that pitbulls are maybe the most common dog that bad owners will get, and pit bulls have been bred to become stronger and more viscous physically. If a bad owner has a poodle, it can't kill people, at least not that easily.
These are approaches that tend to fail specifically against pits.
Well I'm convinced.
The breed attracts assholes and fuckheads that want them for a specific reason.
I honestly wouldn't know what else to do. I've never had to deal with a pit in that capacity. They're mostly chill from the ones I've dealt with. What would you recommend besides preventative measures like a muzzle, special collar, or training? Tazer?
They're all chill until they aren't. So many stories started with a dog that was loving and peaceful for years. There's no maliciousness in it, just an instinctive response/trigger.
Once that jaw clamps down? The only surefire solution I can think of is a gun. I don't think shocks would even prevent an attack, much less end it. And what dog lover wants to carry around a gun for killing their dog just in case?
I was really hoping you wouldn't say a gun. *sigh*
It's cool, that's where my mind was going too, unfortunately. Fuck, they're strong.
Using your entire body weight to bring them down would be a good idea (assuming you are a decently sized man). Also dog's eyes are a weakness on them, so if you don't care about maybe doing some damage to one of their eyes that could also work.
Another thing responsible owners should do is neuter their male dogs, since intact males are responsible for an overwhelming majority of aggression, bites and fatal attacks.
if the media wasnt actively turning away non pitbull stories you might have a point
ever wonder why only little white kids get abducted on the news
I wonder how many people investigate these situations, and why there is a stigma before they go popping off. Based on what I'm seeing, very little to none. Here is a helpful breakdown for those who see the first post, and start typing away;
- Dozens of dogs of all sizes, some just as strong as APB bite humans each year, some more than others.
- The media right now mostly reports APB bites/attacks/scares exclusively because you all eat it the fuck up.
- Most APB are actually misidentified, because every dog that isn't a Poodle or a Dalmanation people state is a "pit bull" (even the fucking owners and "breeders").
- They are dozens of dogs that are just as nippy, or bites as just as strong as the APB.
- Training/upbringing makes all the difference. And even a dog that seems fine can be provoked to defend itself or it's family if threatened enough. There is no breed or animal on the planet that will tolerate too much aggression thrown their way.
Here are some quick tips to keep you from getting bit. Apply this to everything. Dogs, cats, Lizards and snakes, birds, and even other people.
- Keep your fucking hands to yourself. Just don't touch other people's animals unless given permission. Don't care how cute they look.
- Let authorities handle situations that could place you in a bad situation. (If you see animal abuse, or a dog that is not properly secured).
- Owners needs to muzzle their dogs in public places that can be stressful.
- Leashes are a must. And in most cases, I would recommend the harness for bigger dogs.
- Proper containment. If your dog can scale a 4-5ft fence then a 6-8ft would be better.
- Stop supporting backyard breeders. This is the big one. Most of the bites covered on the news are from dogs acquired from BYB. So I don't care if your friend/brother/cousin had an accidental litter (stop doing that too, dammit) don't get anything from him.
- And not everyone is able to care for a shelter dog. Don't care how wonderful it makes you feel or how superior it makes you think you are over people who buy from kennels. Stop rescuing random dogs you know nothing about, unless you are more careful than the idiots who bring their dogs in Subways. Rescuing is a serious task and in recent years people go out their way to push resuecing over buying from breeders and this is stupid. Both are fine. And both require you to have a serious understanding of the work it takes to care for another living creature. Research and do it right.
- Dozens of dogs of all sizes, some just as strong as APB bite humans each year, some more than others.
- The media right now mostly reports APB bites/attacks/scares exclusively because you all eat it the fuck up.
- Most APB are actually misidentified, because every dog that isn't a Poodle or a Dalmanation people state is a "pit bull" (even the fucking owners and "breeders").
- They are dozens of dogs that are just as nippy, or bites as just as strong as the APB.
- Training/upbringing makes all the difference. And even a dog that seems fine can be provoked to defend itself or it's family if threatened enough. There is no breed or animal on the planet that will tolerate too much aggression thrown their way.
Here are some quick tips to keep you from getting bit. Apply this to everything. Dogs, cats, Lizards and snakes, birds, and even other people.
- Keep your fucking hands to yourself. Just don't touch other people's animals unless given permission. Don't care how cute they look.
- Let authorities handle situations that could place you in a bad situation. (If you see animal abuse, or a dog that is not properly secured).
- Owners needs to muzzle their dogs in public places that can be stressful.
- Leashes are a must. And in most cases, I would recommend the harness for bigger dogs.
- Proper containment. If your dog can scale a 4-5ft fence then a 6-8ft would be better.
- Stop supporting backyard breeders. This is the big one. Most of the bites covered on the news are from dogs acquired from BYB. So I don't care if your friend/brother/cousin had an accidental litter (stop doing that too, dammit) don't get anything from him.
- And not everyone is able to care for a shelter dog. Don't care how wonderful it makes you feel or how superior it makes you think you are over people who buy from kennels. Stop rescuing random dogs you know nothing about, unless you are more careful than the idiots who bring their dogs in Subways. Rescuing is a serious task and in recent years people go out their way to push resuecing over buying from breeders and this is stupid. Both are fine. And both require you to have a serious understanding of the work it takes to care for another living creature. Research and do it right.
Fucking bingo.
Um we literally had someone a page ago state the news turned down a serious bite story because it wasn't a pit bull. The only agenda here is the one you seem to have.
Being a good pitbull owner is like being a responsible gun owner. In the end, you're still handling something that can go terribly wrong.
So some of your bullets are misleading - true - the pit bulls aren’t the MOST likely to bite you on a per breed basis - Akitas, chows etc are much more likely to by species - but that ignores the problem of the sheer numbers of a range of terrier breeds that are identified generically as pitbulls. Is that unfair to the kennel club term? Sure, but pretending that you don’t know what the article or identification means sounds suspiciously like the magazine vs clip argument on the second amendment. That range of breeds is now at almost pest-levels thanks to unregulated and backyard breeding that you’re absolutely right to criticize.
So all the above is a complex matrix of factors, but my main point is that there is a huge, problematic number of poorly bred and trained, large muscular terriers that are bred for similar criteria of the original Pitbull AKC definition - that is to say strength and tenacity - the breed was after all originally used for hunting and defense.
What I will do however, is take strenuous objection to the bolded point above regarding “keeping your fucking hands to yourself:”
If you have a domestic pet that you cannot safely take out in public, or in crowded spaces where people - children especially, may try to interact with your pet, then don’t take it to those places - or muzzle it. That’s YOUR responsibility, not other pedestrians. Plenty of people have perfectly goods reasons to have unfriendly animals - farmers etc - but then they’re not pets. they’re working animals and should be treated accordingly.
An anxious, snappy nervous dog doesn’t need to go to the mall, so leave it at home or take it to a field.
Also, you’ve made a sweeping generalization about BYB being solely responsible for serious bites and attacks. I’m not even going to dignified that with a response and rather, assume you were being hyperbolic to make a point about that specific aspect of the problem.
I love dogs. Some of the sweetest, best behaved dogs I’ve ever met were pits and other “bad” terriers. I agree with much of your argument - but the swinging absolutes on this conversation are why the two sides can’t even converse civilly.
yep. I always get sketched in bad neighborhoods where in-neutered dogs of any species can basically be feral. I once got treed by a pack of stray dogs on crete. They only left when I beaned the pack leader with a really big branch, and they followed at a distance all the way back to the village lights. I thought I was gonna get eaten.
I like how they assume this guy had enough control of his dog that it would listen to a release command. He’s clearly in the wrong but also maybe don’t shove dogs you don’t know anything about.
I want you and others to watch this video. It's an hour long but totally worth it. At the end of the video you will understand why you are wrong.
Dr. Shyan-Norwalt Lecture on Dog Social Signals
Anyone who's anyone is not gonna let random strangers touch their dogs. Doesn't matter what the breed is. You need to always ask for permission. People's pet's are not your personal pettings zoos. And just because you can't touch everyone dogs doesn't mean they are dangerous or that we and the dog needs to stay at home cause you can't pet 'em.
I'll address the rest after I get back home.
It may not necessarily be the breed, but these sort of dogs are still very powerful so when an incident does happen there is a higher chance of death or serious harm. Cities should pass local ordinance for mandatory neutering of any breed that's contributing to a high amount of fatalities or bites. They should also more closely regulate who can own these sort of dogs (don't allow adopting out to households with young children, or households without fenced yards, etc). Backyard breeding needs to be kept under control for these more powerful breeds as well.
Also for the love of god, regulate these dumb 'service animal' certificates that people buy for their untrained pets.
Also for the love of god, regulate these dumb 'service animal' certificates that people buy for their untrained pets.
That isn’t going to prove I’m wrong - because unless all of society watches it and agrees to abide by its principles, it’s still your responsibility to keep a dangerous animal away from those people, no matter how ignorant you think they are. If everyone is suddenly going to learn about animal cues, mouth and tongue attitude, ear direction, behaviors, postures, eye movement, line of sight, tail position, hackles etc, then you’re right. And so is she.
I’m reminded of Morlowe Stanfield stealing the gum to make a point to the security guard.
You want it to be one way. But it ain’t that way. It’s the other.
A better argument would be trying to teach this stuff in schools. Which they mostly don’t. In neighborhoods and districts where dog attacks are frequent - then an hour or two of education about this would be helpful, but the responsibility would still be on the owners, just as it’s a gun owner’s responsibility to keep their weapon safely secured, or a driver’s responsibility to signal lane changes.
I’m not criticizing you or trying to start a fight, but I’ve owned dogs, and if they were dangerous to people, I wouldn’t have blamed the people I exposed to those dogs, because I knew that the dog was my responsibility.
Neutering is mandated in a lot of places. Some neighborhoods have banned the breed(s) so assholes just escalate to the next most macho dog - which is why you sometimes see a skinny teenager walking his uncle’s poorly socialized Presa Canaria, just a ticking time bomb. It’s a heady stew of toxic masculinity, poverty, laziness, ignorance and lack of regard for others, that exists in every strata of society.
Thankfully the vast majority of dog owners are responsible enough to get their pets fixed, and trained to a greater or lesser extent. But pretending it’s not an actual problem and that everyone should just use bootstraps and common sense is ignoring the reality.
A lot of these drive by takes seem unnecessary had some posters read through the thread and noticed they're not the first to make such an inquisitive comparison, only to be easily refuted by the very easy conclusion to come to in that dogs are not inanimate objects.
I assume you're directing the boot straps part to the other poster. I definitely agree with you, it's a real a problem and we cannot rely on people to use common sense.
That footage brought back some good memories of being attacked myself, she should have used the other foot to stomp to pooch in the face, that usually shocks them to back off.
Since all the statements here seem to be repeating themselves or getting worse I'm going to stop trying to respond to some of the idiotic things people are saying, and quote a previous post I made for those not bothered to read through the thread.
so rather than accept the results of 40 years of data collection, you'd rather appeal to data we don't have on the grounds that it could, hypothetically, support your position. Do I really have to explain why that's complete bullshit? It's literally the same as climate change deniers asking for exact temperature values pre-1850.
I wouldn't go that far but man I just can't stand dogs, so many loose ones around my area. And its not their fault really its the people who get them and stop taking care of them.
You really should watch the video first. It's more than just of list of dog social signals. It's about how humans believe human social signals are ok to use on dogs. This isn't about aggressive dogs, this is about ALL dogs.
You can take the nicest, sweets, caring dog and quickly turn it a weapon you fear by breaking the rules. It's not the owners or dogs fault if you (even unwittingly) broke the rules. You wouldn't go into a meeting with your boss and drop your pants to say hello. Yet most people think it is fine to insult a dog when greeting them and act surprised when the dog reacts. It sucks that most people don't know what the rules are but you can't say they are not part of the problem.
The point of the video is to show you what you think is ok to dog in front of a dog is not ok.
The data exist and the numbers are staggering, it's no wonder that the breed has the reputation that it does, makes sense. But I also know that those numbers are skewed by pitbull type dogs. There's 3 different dog breeds that are classified as pitbulls, American pitbull terrier, staffordshire terrier and staffordshire bull terrier, in some instances even the American bulldog would be classified as a pitbull. Also any mixed breed dog that is mixed with any of these 3 breeds will also be classified as a pitbull. For instance, if a staffordshire/dalmatian mix were to attack someone it would go down as a pitbull attack.
My argument is, if a breed that is inherently vicious, then the reputation it holds today should also hold true in the past. Not only did the breed not have this bad reputation, it was the exact opposite. How is this possible if the breed is inherently viscous? Yes, please explain how this line of thinking is bullshit. Do you believe that breed suddenly mutated in the 80's? Did they become africanized killer pits?
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