Don't support Doom VFR or Fallout 4VR: Bethesda actually locked out the Rift

low-G · Nov 30, 2017

Laconik said:
I really can't feel for Oculus at all.

You're not supposed to feel for any company. They are by definition amoral. They have no feelings of their own. They only seek our money. They're not your friend.

You should think if this is good for consumers / gamers / the VR industry.

I don't think this is the end of the world, but it's just yet another bad thing.

Tracygill said:
Robert Trump, the brother of Donald Trump sits on the board of Zenimax, the parent company of Bethesda. As far as I know he supports his brother.

Peter Thiel, a supporter of Trump sits on the board of Facebook.

It's all garbage. Neither Bethesda or Facebook are good guys.

Case in point to my above point.

Nikpls · Nov 30, 2017

Branson said:
So am I wrong in saying that keeping this off of the Rift is like if Sony didnt allow you to play your PS4 on a Samsung TV because they have competing Blu-Ray players...

Eh, the better analogy would be saying it's as if a game refuses to launch if it detects a specific brand of graphics card because the parent company of the developer has a lawsuit against them.

Laconik · Nov 30, 2017

Branson said:
So am I wrong in saying that keeping this off of the Rift is like if Sony didnt allow you to play your PS4 on a Samsung TV because they have competing Blu-Ray players...

And if Samsung and Sony sued each other. The lawsuit is the linchpin in all this. Bethesda is run by lawyers, how no one saw this coming...

Krejlooc · Nov 30, 2017

KHlover said:
Yeah if my wallet depended on gaming companies not being petty dumbshits I'd be upset, too. Still not a reason for such a confrontational tone throughout the entire thread

Take a wild guess what I do for a living.

SleepSmasher · Nov 30, 2017

I just want to point out that I got a PM from OP saying that I was "threadshitting" and that he actively blocked me because of that (for those who care, check my post history).

I replied saying that I'm not trying to make any enemies here and even said "sorry" albeit knowing that I'm entitled to have a different opinion than him, but not a reply since, probably because well, he blocked me.

Long story short, OP is apparently highly engaged on this matter to the point of getting really pissed off for small things, so there's that.

Laconik · Nov 30, 2017

low-G said:
You're not supposed to feel for any company. They are by definition amoral. They have no feelings of their own. They only seek our money. They're not your friend.

You should think if this is good for consumers / gamers / the VR industry.

I know their not my friend, that's why I said I can't feel for them

If Bethesda did this and no lawsuit existed, I'd be right there with you in outrage.

Like if Sony blocked Tomb Raider games because they publish Uncharted.

Then we would have a case.

Branson · Nov 30, 2017

I think the bad thing is that I DID see this coming with Bethesda and Zeni being annoying as fuck towards Rift owners and the stupid fucking lawsuit. I hate everything I think.

Drek · Nov 30, 2017

Krejlooc said:
This entire argument hinges on a legal definition of stolen that is not at all congruent with what we understand as stealing. This is stealing as in John Carmack worked on something that became the rift SDK using a zenimax computer in his free time, after zenimax told him they weren't interested in perusing VR for commercial projects. Then Carmack eventually left Zenimax so he could work on his side project full time, and it became something huge, and then facebook paid billions for it, and then zenmiax suddenly wanted to play the role of inventor of VR.

You either don't know what you're talking about, or you're a massive corporate cheerleader.

EDIT:

Further, this happens all the fucking time in business. See Microsoft and Apple. And your hypothetical isn't even close to what happened with Oculus and Zenimax.

Please explain your MS/Apple analog.

Also, I’m not a corporate cheerleader, just a really damn good scientist and engineer who works in the private industry. If I make anything remotely related to my industry my company owns it, regardless of if they want it. If I do it on company hardware that’s just going to hell with the joke.

That’s just how the real world works. Carmack tried to have his cake and eat it too, get a fat buyout for Id, tinker on VR with what was literally Zenimax property, then jump ship when he felt like it. He still works there too. Why in the world would you expect a company to play nice with someone they just won a half billion dollars off of for the exact product line you think they should support?

Sounds to me like you’re salty your VR choice isn’t getting the support you want and trying to act like it’s something more than just your own sour grapes.

MrConbon210 · Nov 30, 2017

felipepl said:
I just want to point out that I got a PM from OP saying that I was "threadshitting" and that he actively blocked me because of that (for those who care, check my post history).

I replied saying that I'm not trying to make any enemies here and even said "sorry" albeit knowing that I'm entitled to have a different opinion than him, but not a reply since, probably because well, he blocked me.

Long story short, OP is apparently highly engaged on this matter to the point of getting really pissed off for small things, so there's that.

I actually PM’d him asking to tone the hostility down and got an angry response about how I should just block him if I don’t want to hear what he has to say. OP is incredibly hostile to those who think differently on this topic. Very disappointing to have to see in this forum I generally enjoy reading.

Kinggroin · Nov 30, 2017

felipepl said:
I just want to point out that I got a PM from OP saying that I was "threadshitting" and that he actively blocked me because of that (for those who care, check my post history).

I replied saying that I'm not trying to make any enemies here and even said "sorry" albeit knowing that I'm entitled to have a different opinion than him, but not a reply since, probably because well, he blocked me.

Long story short, OP is apparently highly engaged on this matter to the point of getting really pissed off for small things, so there's that.

He's invested in VR to a professional-career degree. So growing the market is in his best interests

Einbroch · Nov 30, 2017

I had some questions to better understand the issue, but the OP's hostility forced me to other venues to discuss this.

KHlover · Nov 30, 2017

Krejlooc said:
Take a wild guess what I do for a living.

Take a guess why I worded my post like that - I know you work in VR.

low-G · Nov 30, 2017

Laconik said:
I know their not my friend, that's why I said I can't feel for them

If Bethesda did this and no lawsuit existed, I'd be right there with you in outrage.

Like if Sony blocked Tomb Raider games because they publish Uncharted.

Then we would have a case.

The problem is they're hurting hundreds of thousands of gamers as well as the future of VR as a gambit in this whole thing. I can 100% understand not developing for a company you're suing, but actively pursuing harm is another matter altogether. That's not to justify anything any other harmful thing any company has done. This is just one more shitty thing.

Verdict still out on the possibility that they are actively looking to harm Oculus / Steam marketplace, but it looks likely.

Laconik · Nov 30, 2017

Drek said:
Further, this happens all the fucking time in business. See Microsoft and Apple. And your hypothetical isn't even close to what happened with Oculus and Zenimax.
Please explain your MS/Apple analog.

Also, I’m not a corporate cheerleader, just a really damn good scientist and engineer who works in the private industry. If I make anything remotely related to my industry my company owns it, regardless of if they want it. If I do it on company hardware that’s just going to hell with the joke.

That’s just how the real world works. Carmack tried to have his cake and eat it too, get a fat buyout for Id, tinker on VR with what was literally Zenimax property, then jump ship when he felt like it. He still works there too. Why in the world would you expect a company to play nice with someone they just won a half billion dollars off of for the exact product line you think they should support?

Sounds to me like you’re salty your VR choice isn’t getting the support you want and trying to act like it’s something more than just your own sour grapes.

He owns both devices, this is more a "fear of VR fragmentation. I've been trying to tell him about the lawsuit but he doesn't want to hear it.

MrConbon210 said:
I actually PM’d him asking to tone the hostility down and got an angry response about how I should just block him if I don’t want to hear what he has to say. OP is incredibly hostile to those who think differently on this topic. Very disappointing to have to see in this forum I generally enjoy reading.

Yeah, isn't this a "reset"? Let's all be adults here.

Branson · Nov 30, 2017

Drek said:
Further, this happens all the fucking time in business. See Microsoft and Apple. And your hypothetical isn't even close to what happened with Oculus and Zenimax.
Please explain your MS/Apple analog.

Also, I’m not a corporate cheerleader, just a really damn good scientist and engineer who works in the private industry. If I make anything remotely related to my industry my company owns it, regardless of if they want it. If I do it on company hardware that’s just going to hell with the joke.

That’s just how the real world works. Carmack tried to have his cake and eat it too, get a fat buyout for Id, tinker on VR with what was literally Zenimax property, then jump ship when he felt like it. He still works there too. Why in the world would you expect a company to play nice with someone they just won a half billion dollars off of for the exact product line you think they should support?

Sounds to me like you’re salty your VR choice isn’t getting the support you want and trying to act like it’s something more than just your own sour grapes.

I'm not afraid to say its sour grapes on my part. I purchased the Rift and came to expect some sort of normalization of the market as it matured as it has with things working on everything. I want to talk to people about Skyrim or Fo4 in VR like I can with Rec Room or something.

scitek · Nov 30, 2017

Honestly, Bethesda should at least come out and just straight-up say it's not compatible with the Rift. People like me are out 30 bucks because until now, practically every SteamVR game works with the Rift, so we expected this one to work, too.

Branson · Nov 30, 2017

scitek said:
Honestly, Bethesda should at least come out and just straight-up say it's not compatible with the Rift. People like me are out 30 bucks because until now, practically every SteamVR game works with the Rift, so we expected this one to work, too.

Cant you get a refund?

Krejlooc · Nov 30, 2017

Drek said:
Why in the world would you expect a company to play nice with someone they just won a half billion dollars off of for the exact product line you think they should support?

I don't expect them to play nicely with Oculus. I don't expect them to ever support oculus. I don't expect Oculus and Zenimax to ever do business. I am not asking for their support of Oculus.

This has absolutely nothing to do with Oculus. I am upset that they are going out of their way to disable a VALVE technology. This is VALVE'S API. I should be upset when a company specifically goes out of their way to break parts of an API over something completely non-related.

Sounds to me like you’re salty your VR choice isn’t getting the support you want and trying to act like it’s something more than just your own sour grapes.

Sounds to me like you are projecting.

Krejlooc · Nov 30, 2017

Branson said:
Cant you get a refund?

game was on sale on a few non-steam websites this last weekend.

Wollan · Nov 30, 2017

Laconik · Nov 30, 2017

Krejlooc said:
I don't expect them to play nicely with Oculus. I don't expect them to ever support oculus. I don't expect Oculus and Zenimax to ever do business. I am not asking for their support of Oculus.

This has absolutely nothing to do with Oculus. I am upset that they are going out of their way to disable a VALVE technology. This is VALVE'S API. I should be upset when a company specifically goes out of their way to break parts of an API over something completely non-related.

Ok then what should Bethesda do? Not publish the game at all over breaking the API?

I'm serious here, they don't want to support Rift but want to sell on Steam, what are their options?

scitek · Nov 30, 2017

Branson said:
Cant you get a refund?

Didn't get it through Steam, and already redeemed the key.

dismal · Nov 30, 2017

Do you have to use SteamVR if you want to publish on Steam?

scitek · Nov 30, 2017

Laconik said:
Ok then what should Bethesda do? Not publish the game at all over breaking the API?

I'm serious here, they don't want to support Rift but want to sell on Steam, what are their options?

Tell people who own a Rift not to waste their money.

plagiarize · Nov 30, 2017

This thread has been locked because the OP makes unsourced claims and passes them off as fact.

Don't support Doom VFR or Fallout 4VR: Bethesda actually locked out the Rift

low-G

Nikpls

Laconik

Krejlooc

Self-requested temp ban

SleepSmasher

Laconik

Branson

Drek

MrConbon210

Kinggroin

Self-requested ban

Einbroch

KHlover

low-G

Laconik

Branson

scitek

Branson

Krejlooc

Self-requested temp ban

Krejlooc

Self-requested temp ban

Wollan

Mostly Positive

Laconik

scitek

dismal

scitek

plagiarize

Trifecta Secured. Let's get to work.