• To celebrate the release of Halo: The Master Chief Collection on Steam, Xbox Games Studios has provided 5 Steam copies of the game and 5 Xbox One copies of the game! We will be giving these away in the Gaming Giveaways |OT|. Some Steam copies will also be given away to the PC Gaming Era community.
  • An old favorite feature returns: Q&ERA is back! This time we'll be collecting questions for Remedy Entertainment, makers of Max Payne, Alan Wake, Quantum Break, and Control. Members can submit questions for the next 2 days, 15 hours, 59 minutes, 49 seconds. Submissions will close on Dec 12, 2019 at 12:00 AM.

Dragalia Lost |OT2| Boom.

Stryda

Member
Aug 20, 2018
286
Yea without being an expert in this type of stuff, I'm starting to get worried support will die off eventually since it definitely seems to be underperforming.
Sheesh I hope not, it actually pretty god over here in the west and playerbase estimates haven't fallen, actually have increased. They just need to take advantage of the base they have. Hoping Nintendo and CyGames don't start pulling back after a strong start
 

schuelma

Member
Oct 24, 2017
3,007
Sheesh I hope not, it actually pretty god over here in the west and playerbase estimates haven't fallen, actually have increased. They just need to take advantage of the base they have. Hoping Nintendo and CyGames don't start pulling back after a strong start
to be clear, I am not at all well versed in the art of gacha economics- hopefully things are fine!
 

deepFlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,751
I think those days are the right ones to change to. CyGames/Nintendo should readjust the schedule to open all mHDT from Friday/Saturday to Sunday/Monday. That way those that want to use their weeklies right after reset can do so and those that procrastinate and scramble to finish their weeklies before reset (Ex: me) aren't limited to mHMC and mHMS.
...but I’m pretty sure everything already is open Sunday? Rather, it’s Saturday + Sunday that everything is open as things are currently, not Friday + Saturday. Unless I misunderstood what you’re saying.

I agree that it would be good to free Monday from the rotation too due to how weeklies work. But I guess there’s the likely point of the rotation to consider - to make sure they’re actually populated. Probably makes more sense to block off some from having their weeklies done immediately as a result, since people would rush to do the one they want and then bounce for the rest of the week. As is, people have to do them together on certain days, which means those ones will theoretically have more people playing them. Earlier days if they’re doing weeklies, later days if they’re just farming or couldn’t do the first day. And then it’s not as much of a problem to open things up on the weekend, because more people are free in general.

Honestly, still just makes me wish weeklies were separated by difficulty and/or you could opt out of using them.
 

Vilifier

Member
Oct 25, 2017
499
...but I’m pretty sure everything already is open Sunday? Rather, it’s Saturday + Sunday that everything is open as things are currently, not Friday + Saturday. Unless I misunderstood what you’re saying.

I agree that it would be good to free Monday from the rotation too due to how weeklies work. But I guess there’s the likely point of the rotation to consider - to make sure they’re actually populated. Probably makes more sense to block off some from having their weeklies done immediately as a result, since people would rush to do the one they want and then bounce for the rest of the week. As is, people have to do them together on certain days, which means those ones will theoretically have more people playing them. Earlier days if they’re doing weeklies, later days if they’re just farming or couldn’t do the first day. And then it’s not as much of a problem to open things up on the weekend, because more people are free in general.

Honestly, still just makes me wish weeklies were separated by difficulty and/or you could opt out of using them.
Whoops; I went to double check the schedule before posting and saw the dates but not the times in the announcement. All open starts 10p PST Friday and 10p PST Saturday and run through 9:59p PST the next day.

A ticket or opt-in system for weeklies would be ideal; but I think having at least everything open on Monday will help ease the weekly frustrations.
 

Chrono

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,347
Honestly speaking, I'm kind of losing interest in the game. I won't drop it just yet, but I do miss the earlier times where we got a few new events per month (usually two), alongside new story events associated with it that introduced the new banner/gacha characters (such as Resplendent Refrain, still one of my favorite events if just for that amazing music). I know we're still getting new PVE content on a monthly basis (main story chapters every couple of months, as well as new Void/Astral/HDT encounters, and new levels for Mercurial Gauntlet), but I need that story content. I'm not an "endgame raider", so the events were my favorite parts of DL, as we got little story bits with them as well as background on the new characters (in addition to a boss to defeat, but they tended to just be re-skins of previous ones, at least for the wave clearing events). I know we're getting new bosses in the next couple months, but again I have a feeling that's more for the endgame crowd. At the very least, I doubt there will be any stories to go along with it, but I hope I'm wrong.

I know Cygames needed to add more to the endgame for those that love grinding that stuff out, I just wish the story PVE content didn't have to suffer for it. It really doesn't help that the last handful of seasonal events were all repeats with a higher difficulty boss battle thrown in. I know they needed to re-run them eventually for new players, but having them all re-run over the last few months has really killed the excitement of events for me . Stirring Shadows was cool as that content was new, but the actual event for that just consisted of usual daily grinding for token drops. And now we have a Christmas re-run on the horizon (with a higher-difficulty boss). It does concern me that they didn't mention a New Years event in this month's "What's Ahead". I know we already had a re-run of Ieyasu's event, so it worries me that they might make the new announced bosses part of the New Year event and not have a dedicated event with it (which means no new story). I doubt they'll re-run Ieyasu's event again, though they might make another round of his banner (hopefully alongside new characters).

I guess we'll see what happens next year when they run out of previous events to retread. If they give us another Valentine's event that's essentially the same thing as got the first year (with one or two new stories mixed in), I'll really begin to worry. I still love the game, I just feel the game has transitioned from "here's a cool new raid/facility event you can run through attached to a story" to "here's a new [insert boss here] to grind for materials, so you can start farming [insert higher difficulty boss here]". I know there are some people that love the hell out of that, but it ain't me.
 

Einbroch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,155
Honestly speaking, I'm kind of losing interest in the game. I won't drop it just yet, but I do miss the earlier times where we got a few new events per month (usually two), alongside new story events associated with it that introduced the new banner/gacha characters (such as Resplendent Refrain, still one of my favorite events if just for that amazing music). I know we're still getting new PVE content on a monthly basis (main story chapters every couple of months, as well as new Void/Astral/HDT encounters, and new levels for Mercurial Gauntlet), but I need that story content. I'm not an "endgame raider", so the events were my favorite parts of DL, as we got little story bits with them as well as background on the new characters (in addition to a boss to defeat, but they tended to just be re-skins of previous ones, at least for the wave clearing events). I know we're getting new bosses in the next couple months, but again I have a feeling that's more for the endgame crowd. At the very least, I doubt there will be any stories to go along with it, but I hope I'm wrong.

I know Cygames needed to add more to the endgame for those that love grinding that stuff out, I just wish the story PVE content didn't have to suffer for it. It really doesn't help that the last handful of seasonal events were all repeats with a higher difficulty boss battle thrown in. I know they needed to re-run them eventually for new players, but having them all re-run over the last few months has really killed the excitement of events for me . Stirring Shadows was cool as that content was new, but the actual event for that just consisted of usual daily grinding for token drops. And now we have a Christmas re-run on the horizon (with a higher-difficulty boss). It does concern me that they didn't mention a New Years event in this month's "What's Ahead". I know we already had a re-run of Ieyasu's event, so it worries me that they might make the new announced bosses part of the New Year event and not have a dedicated event with it (which means no new story). I doubt they'll re-run Ieyasu's event again, though they might make another round of his banner (hopefully alongside new characters).

I guess we'll see what happens next year when they run out of previous events to retread. If they give us another Valentine's event that's essentially the same thing as got the first year (with one or two new stories mixed in), I'll really begin to worry. I still love the game, I just feel the game has transitioned from "here's a cool new raid/facility event you can run through attached to a story" to "here's a new [insert boss here] to grind for materials, so you can start farming [insert higher difficulty boss here]". I know there are some people that love the hell out of that, but it ain't me.
At least we have SAO:ARS. We'll always have that.

Until it turns to shit.
 

Chrono

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,347
At least we have SAO:ARS. We'll always have that.

Until it turns to shit.
The only thing that concerns me about SAOARS is the eventual powercreep. I realize it has to happen in some way, I just hope it's not to the point where all earlier characters become essentially useless. It's part of the reason why I'm paranoid to LB anyone just yet, haha.

At least the events are coupled with a short original story (some with anime-styled cutscenes), so I do appreciate that.
 

Supergang

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
86
Damn yeah things are not looking too good for this game. Being out of top 100 would hurt. I'm not sure if this game can survive for long (I really do hope it will).
 

Vic_Viper

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,245
I hope this game doesnt drop off after this year. I have been having a ton of fun with it. Its probably the best action rpg on mobile that ive played. Best looking especially. Really looking forward to the android stuff in Chapter 11.
 

Stryda

Member
Aug 20, 2018
286
Imma be that guy and say that not making adventurers merge-able was probably the biggest mistake for this game in terms of monetization. They're absolutely gonna go down a money fiending route soon even if Nintendo would restrict most of it
 

Numberfox

Member
Aug 5, 2018
2,770
Finished reading Jiang Ziya’s adventurer story. I do feel like Kleimann was a fairly essential part of the story, so I can see why they chose him despite the VA dying. We’ll see by the next banner if the lack of VA is anything more than to keep the canned dialogue consistent when the story involves a deceased VA.

Y’all make it sound like being out of the top 100 means it literally can’t exist. Keep in mind that this list is all apps, not just games or even gacha games for that matter, considering stuff like Netflix and Tinder are on there.

To add some extra context, outside of the huge launch month revenue, 2018 had Halloween, Dragonyule, and the first day of the Eastern Emmisaries banner, which is gonna have the most revenue compared to the rest of the days the banners out. In 2019, we’ve literally only had Valentine’s, FEH, and Halloween as this year’s unique Limited banners. This month alone is gonna have 25-40% of the entire year’s new limited banners depending on if it also gets the first day of 2020’s New Years banner. Relatedly, having Gala makes it so players stock up on pulls and roll during Gala’s or Limited’s. They literally made the Wedding banner and Summer banners permanent pool adventurers, three prime opportunities to generate a lot of Limited revenue in most gacha games. Having so little Limited’s throughout the year means more saved currency for Gala’s/Limited’s, which increases the likelihood that a person rolls their desired gacha unit without needing to use money.

With the generosity and constant free pulls we get, even whales struggle to pull out their wallet if they’re getting all the featured units with free pulls, since the game doesn’t require much from the gacha to tackle the majority of the content. However, I feel like most people are jumping way too quickly to worst-case scenarios at the moment. I don’t see how people can legitimately believe they made conscious choices like making normally Limited banners into permanent ones, or literally adding monthly money-bought items like sunstones/Champion’s Testaments into the event trade shop more regularly (the only way they generate revenue outside the gacha/refreshes) and somehow think they wouldn’t lose out on revenue in doing so.

I’m just having a hard time trying to mentally process that leap in logic. They’re clearly making conscious efforts to make the game as F2P as possible, and I fail to see why they wouldn’t see that that would likely worsen revenue. I’m personally on the camp of if they do want to add more revenue, then they ought to add more vanity items. With weapon skins now being implemented, have more stuff like the Lucky Hanetsuki Paddle from New Years for more holidays, along with more stuff in the Halidom that has no bearing on gameplay. Only start blaring the panic alarms when they actually start incorporating P2W mechanics, because so far I’ve just seen several overreactions throughout the year to this game making less revenue than a lot of games with more predatory gacha and gameplay systems, and I just think it gets tiring after a while.

Lastly, let me quote myself from back in March back on the 1st OT, explaining why DL is now constantly scrutinized, more so than literally any other gacha I’ve played, including ones that do a lot worse than DL yet still somehow manage to exist despite also not showing up on the top 100 chart.

I’m not sure if that’s a rapid pace, but here’s my take on why there’s a downward trend. The decline itself seems to have started back in mid-December, which I believe is as a result of the text error that showed incorrect rates for summoning for the Dragonyule Banner (it was displaying lower values than the actual ones). People in the West didn’t mind so much, but in Japan people were absolutely outraged over it.

Then, you have the CyberAgent CEO scapegoating Dragalia Lost in January by saying Dragalia Lost was the sole reason they were forced to lower their financial forecasts, when in reality he was trying to cover up how much of a failure the AbemaTV investment was. You even have them continuing that narrative recently with a CyberAgent employee explaining that the forecast lowered because Nintendo didn’t allow them to have more predatory micro transactions in Dragalia, despite the fact those decisions were made before the initial financial forecast. In terms of PR, a parent company brazenly calling a game from one of their subsidiaries a failure doesn't really inspire confidence.

On the English side, you also had someone a month ago claim the game would potentially be shut down by now (4-8 weeks after their tweets), whom relied on incorrect data literally from a random 2ch post that was proven false with the SensorTower revenue update released soon after. It’s not like they went back on their statements, of course, so there’s now the perception the game’s doing a lot worse than it actually is by casual observers who don’t know much about Dragalia/the situation.
I still love the game, I just feel the game has transitioned from "here's a cool new raid/facility event you can run through attached to a story" to "here's a new [insert boss here] to grind for materials, so you can start farming [insert higher difficulty boss here]". I know there are some people that love the hell out of that, but it ain't me.
The ironic part about this is that right now, DL is addressing many of the complaints from earlier in the year, during that period of “there’s nothing to do after we finish grinding the event“ which popped up at the tail end of basically every single event. We probably got too much endgame content thrown at us all at once recently, but veteran were legitimately complaining that they were releasing endgame content too slowly, while casual folks complained about the grind to get to HDTs, and that the only endgame content was HDTs. So they developed Expert/Master HDTs for veterans, they’re creating more Void Battle content to ease the progression to HDTs with Expert Void Dragon battles and Volcanic Chimera, and introducing separate endgame content with the Agito Uprising.

The PvE story content has definitely suffered, Okada has directly said that all the permanent content being developed right now has led to them needing to re-run event content. However, they’ve already pledged to add a new story chapter every other month starting in December (compared to the current wait of 4 months we’ve had between 10 and 11), with additional story segments to the main campaign during the off months. Honestly, I think the reason PvE story has been taking such a backseat at the moment is because they’re currently working on the main story and building up a backlog, since we’re apparently going to be getting 6 story chapters and 6 complementary story segments next year within 12 months compared to just the 5 story chapters we’ve slowly gotten since launch within 15 months, so they need to really work on a better development pipeline if that’s going to be standard from now on.

I’m assuming once they get the ball rolling on introducing the higher-difficulty Void Battles and Agito Uprising content, they can get back to the usual new event content rollout, but we’ll have to see next year.
 

Wanderer5

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,955
Somewhere.
Jiang Ziya is like the first character that I really want, but haven't been able to get ha ha. Eh, sooner or later I shall obtained her. I have gotten Kamuy two times in a row through lol.

Just been mostly farming Dr Wily on Expert, and jeez have I been getting wymprints most of the time today.
 

VinceK

Member
Oct 25, 2017
266
What is with the Zodiark fight on Super Hero mode, he will randomly do an attack that just instantly causes someone to die even if they are at full HP. And it seems to hit the whole map.
 

Vena

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,304
Okay Superhero fights were really fun.

Also easier to manage AI than MegaMan since everything is much larger/obvious.
 

Vena

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,304
Damn yeah things are not looking too good for this game. Being out of top 100 would hurt. I'm not sure if this game can survive for long (I really do hope it will).
Between the west and Japan, the game still makes well over 1-2 million per month, on anni they made like 5-6 million. That's generally not something that just dies.

We're in a period of fixing the core game.

Honestly speaking, I'm kind of losing interest in the game. I won't drop it just yet, but I do miss the earlier times where we got a few new events per month (usually two), alongside new story events associated with it that introduced the new banner/gacha characters (such as Resplendent Refrain, still one of my favorite events if just for that amazing music). I know we're still getting new PVE content on a monthly basis (main story chapters every couple of months, as well as new Void/Astral/HDT encounters, and new levels for Mercurial Gauntlet), but I need that story content. I'm not an "endgame raider", so the events were my favorite parts of DL, as we got little story bits with them as well as background on the new characters (in addition to a boss to defeat, but they tended to just be re-skins of previous ones, at least for the wave clearing events). I know we're getting new bosses in the next couple months, but again I have a feeling that's more for the endgame crowd. At the very least, I doubt there will be any stories to go along with it, but I hope I'm wrong.

I know Cygames needed to add more to the endgame for those that love grinding that stuff out, I just wish the story PVE content didn't have to suffer for it. It really doesn't help that the last handful of seasonal events were all repeats with a higher difficulty boss battle thrown in. I know they needed to re-run them eventually for new players, but having them all re-run over the last few months has really killed the excitement of events for me . Stirring Shadows was cool as that content was new, but the actual event for that just consisted of usual daily grinding for token drops. And now we have a Christmas re-run on the horizon (with a higher-difficulty boss). It does concern me that they didn't mention a New Years event in this month's "What's Ahead". I know we already had a re-run of Ieyasu's event, so it worries me that they might make the new announced bosses part of the New Year event and not have a dedicated event with it (which means no new story). I doubt they'll re-run Ieyasu's event again, though they might make another round of his banner (hopefully alongside new characters).

I guess we'll see what happens next year when they run out of previous events to retread. If they give us another Valentine's event that's essentially the same thing as got the first year (with one or two new stories mixed in), I'll really begin to worry. I still love the game, I just feel the game has transitioned from "here's a cool new raid/facility event you can run through attached to a story" to "here's a new [insert boss here] to grind for materials, so you can start farming [insert higher difficulty boss here]". I know there are some people that love the hell out of that, but it ain't me.
Hum? Its year of the rat Zodiac this year. That's the up-coming NY event with Hinomoto and the next 12 Family head.
 

Chrono

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,347
Hum? Its year of the rat Zodiac this year. That's the up-coming NY event with Hinomoto and the next 12 Family head.
It wasn't mentioned in the content for the month though, which I found odd considering we won't get another until February. I expected them to tease something New Years related but they never did, they only mentioned the Dragonyule re-run and new Void/Astral bosses and the Agito thing.
 

OtterMatic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
443
Zodiark is probably the hardest for me. Needed to use the Zodiark print to get it done, but I can't still beat it in 4 min. Maybe I should just equip 2 of them.

On the other hand, I got Lily from the gala pool, so now I can beat eHBr easily at PUGs. With a bit of grind today, I made the HDT lance for Emma, which should help a lot for a more consistent clear. Now the expert shadow and light cycle thou...
 

Vena

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,304
It wasn't mentioned in the content for the month though, which I found odd considering we won't get another until February. I expected them to tease something New Years related but they never did, they only mentioned the Dragonyule re-run and new Void/Astral bosses and the Agito thing.
IIRC the original was also not announced until last minute. It was a surprise, also it was one of the most successful banners of the game.

No way there's not another Zodiac. They went ham for Anni, they'll go ham for NY.
 

Chrono

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,347
IIRC the original was also not announced until last minute. It was a surprise, also it was one of the most successful banners of the game.

No way there's not another Zodiac. They went ham for Anni, they'll go ham for NY.
Yeah, it does seem strange if they skip over it, as it's easy money for them. We've still yet to get that Tsukiyomi Dragon datamined a long while back, she'd be perfect for it.
 

Ekid

Member
Dec 21, 2017
689
It wasn't mentioned in the content for the month though, which I found odd considering we won't get another until February. I expected them to tease something New Years related but they never did, they only mentioned the Dragonyule re-run and new Void/Astral bosses and the Agito thing.
Isn't there a Cygames festival this month? Maybe they are keeping some news for it if they plan to hold a panel for Dragalia.
 

deepFlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,751
I know there's a Granblue Fantasy Fest for this month, but I'm not sure if they'll cover other Cygames titles or not. It's a possibility.
I’m pretty sure last year’s is where we got info on D. Cleo, the bow + lance attack changes, etc. So there’ll possibly be a panel at it next weekend.

Also, regarding New Year’s... This Month had the following in it: “We’ll share more about other events around the end of this year and the start of the new year via notifications.”
 

Chrono

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,347
I’m pretty sure last year’s is where we got info on D. Cleo, the bow + lance attack changes, etc. So there’ll possibly be a panel at it next weekend.

Also, regarding New Year’s... This Month had the following in it: “We’ll share more about other events around the end of this year and the start of the new year via notifications.”
Nice, I'll look forward to that panel then!

Also, I completely missed the "end of the month" mention. Thet definitely alleviates my concerns. Time to continue hoarding my pulls for Dragonyule + New Year banner onslaught.
 

Drax

Oregon tag
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,560
Technically granblue fes was separate from the cygames fes, they were concurrent in the same hall though.
 

Parshias

Member
Oct 25, 2017
833
Technically granblue fes was separate from the cygames fes, they were concurrent in the same hall though.
I distinctly remember looking for a stream to watch the DL presentation and getting the wrong one only to watch the GBF one instead. I didn't know the schedule so I thought that maybe the GBF presentation was running long and I would just have to wait a bit to see the DL stuff. Then I ended up missing it.
 

ginnokane

Member
Oct 28, 2017
366
Damn this superboss level is really something. How do you keep your AI units alive? Is it supposed to be solo megaman only or something?
Yeah, I absolutely hear you about the Superhero brainwashed dragons; I'm having huge difficulties with MS and MC. Haven't even tried BH. Can't keep AI alive even with Odd Sparrows on everyone and 2-3 people giving defense buffs. Likely, the problem is I have only 5.3.0 weapons (no HDT weapons at all), and only a one MUB 5* dragon per element.

Does anyone have good team suggestions? Is it always worth it to lead with/splash Mega Man in each team? I have MUB prints of each boss weakness type, but only one of each so far (for main unit), and haven't put any on the other characters, in favor of a damage/Odd Sparrows combo.
 

Vilifier

Member
Oct 25, 2017
499
Yeah, I absolutely hear you about the Superhero brainwashed dragons; I'm having huge difficulties with MS and MC. Haven't even tried BH. Can't keep AI alive even with Odd Sparrows on everyone and 2-3 people giving defense buffs. Likely, the problem is I have only 5.3.0 weapons (no HDT weapons at all), and only a one MUB 5* dragon per element.

Does anyone have good team suggestions? Is it always worth it to lead with/splash Mega Man in each team? I have MUB prints of each boss weakness type, but only one of each so far (for main unit), and haven't put any on the other characters, in favor of a damage/Odd Sparrows combo.
I beat SuperHero MS with Marth/S!Maribelle/Sarisse/V!Hilde all using 5T3 0UB and whatever their standard print setups were.

I had to control V!Hilde and can keep moving the group the best I could to the far ends behind MS before he launched his tornadoes; iFraming/Healing when necessary. S!Maribelle died to the very first tornado attack but Marth and Sarisse were dodging the tornadoes well enough. It was enough to get the clear. I don't really want to try for a deathless without HDT weapons.
 
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Baladium

Member
Apr 18, 2018
2,764
Diamond Dust Zone
What are the chances I’d get my first Freyja from a tenfold and then 12 summons later I’d summon her again with the free dragon voucher? That’s cruel luck. lol

So is Kamuy good? There’s been so little discussion about him here and on Reddit. If I don’t have Leviathan, would Kamuy be a suitable stand-in?

I’ll be on the look out for other folks of culture. In the mean time, currently cataloging this artist who has drawn a ton of Waike and Karl since November of last year, even has a Moments with a lot of (but not all) of their artwork.
I remember you posting some of that dude’s art earlier this year. His dedication to his OTP is commendable, for sure.

In the meantime, I hereby dub you “Numberfox: Preserver of High Culture.”
 

Vilifier

Member
Oct 25, 2017
499
What are the chances I’d get my first Freyja from a tenfold and then 12 summons later I’d summon her again with the free dragon voucher? That’s cruel luck. lol

So is Kamuy good? There’s been so little discussion about him here and on Reddit. If I don’t have Leviathan, would Kamuy be a suitable stand-in?



I remember you posting some of that dude’s art earlier this year. His dedication to his OTP is commendable, for sure.

In the meantime, I hereby dub you “Numberfox: Preserver of High Culture.”
Kamuy isn't really meant to be used as your main dragon; which is too bad since the pup looks great.

He's more of a long term goal of replacing 4* Strength Dragons your AI typically have equipped for PVE or MG. I wouldn't use Stones on him personally; I'd just stick to rolling with MUB Vody if you don't have a Levi or Siren available.
 

Baladium

Member
Apr 18, 2018
2,764
Diamond Dust Zone
Kamuy isn't really meant to be used as your main dragon; which is too bad since the pup looks great.

He's more of a long term goal of replacing 4* Strength Dragons your AI typically have equipped for PVE or MG. I wouldn't use Stones on him personally; I'd just stick to rolling with MUB Vody if you don't have a Levi or Siren available.
Yeah, his kit definitely seems like it fits the support role of a teammate’s dragon and not optimal as a main. I really want my first MUB water gacha dragon though and I dig Kamuy’s design. Also I don’t have Levi or OG Siren. Ugh...

My goal is to prep Waike for eHBH fights but bringing just a MUB Vodyanoy won’t inspire much confidence on top of him being a non-meta adventurer. He’d still reach 7,000+ might / 3,300+ strength with my currently planned setup though, so maybe that could be just enough to not get laughed out of rooms. (I’m not exactly sure what the minimum strength requirements are for eHBH, so...)
 

mockingbird

Member
Oct 27, 2017
803
Just managed to beat High Midgardsormr. Mega Man being on the team helps thanks to his co-ability and he does more damage in general to all the enemies. That said he also died 5 seconds into the boss fight. that 240 second clear is not gonna be easy.
 

Pygrus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
821
Superhero MS strat for me which seemed to work.

Was running Sarrise, mikoto, verica, megaman.

I controlled Sarrise and just kept right on top of MS while giving the AI invincibility with moves, I was usually able to replensish skills by the time he came back around to start doing the whirlwind things again.
 

deepFlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,751
Yeah, his kit definitely seems like it fits the support role of a teammate’s dragon and not optimal as a main. I really want my first MUB water gacha dragon though and I dig Kamuy’s design. Also I don’t have Levi or OG Siren. Ugh...

My goal is to prep Waike for eHBH fights but bringing just a MUB Vodyanoy won’t inspire much confidence on top of him being a non-meta adventurer. He’d still reach 7,000+ might / 3,300+ strength with my currently planned setup though, so maybe that could be just enough to not get laughed out of rooms. (I’m not exactly sure what the minimum strength requirements are for eHBH, so...)
So... hmm. I don’t wanna be harsh, but you’re already at risk by not bringing meta at all. And people already don’t love SCelery inflicting bog to begin with, so you have that against you too. So if you’re doing pubs, I really don’t know if I’d recommend trying to use Waike without Levi or Siren, since you’re already asking a lot of the other players. I mean, I have to say that I wouldn’t recommend using him at all, but I think that’d cross the line into outright asking to be carried.

The way things work for high dragon fights currently can definitely be overly restrictive of what adventurers are allowed (to varying degrees), but that’s mostly in terms of blocking off 4*s/5*s that could otherwise be good for the fight. Waike’s just straight up not going to do as much damage and does not have a particularly appealing set of skills/abilities, so that’s something the other players are going to have to make up for in a fight that they may already be struggling to clear. Finding myself running with an off-meta adventurer can actually be a fun surprise, but I don’t know if I’d welcome it in Expert to begin with and anyone attempting it without being properly geared would definitely come across as not knowing what the fight is.

...though, well, now that I think about it more. Honestly, you know what’s gonna be your bigger problem? It is going to be extremely hard for you to literally just get into a room. Even before people reject you, no one is going to filter for bows, because Laranoa isn’t used either. Ain’t like some other elements where you can sneak in due to a viable 5* with that weapon type.
 

Baladium

Member
Apr 18, 2018
2,764
Diamond Dust Zone
So... hmm. I don’t wanna be harsh, but you’re already at risk by not bringing meta at all. And people already don’t love SCelery inflicting bog to begin with, so you have that against you too. So if you’re doing pubs, I really don’t know if I’d recommend trying to use Waike without Levi or Siren, since you’re already asking a lot of the other players. I mean, I have to say that I wouldn’t recommend using him at all, but I think that’d cross the line into outright asking to be carried.

The way things work for high dragon fights currently can definitely be overly restrictive of what adventurers are allowed (to varying degrees), but that’s mostly in terms of blocking off 4*s/5*s that could otherwise be good for the fight. Waike’s just straight up not going to do as much damage and does not have a particularly appealing set of skills/abilities, so that’s something the other players are going to have to make up for in a fight that they may already be struggling to clear. Finding myself running with an off-meta adventurer can actually be a fun surprise, but I don’t know if I’d welcome it in Expert to begin with and anyone attempting it without being properly geared would definitely come across as not knowing what the fight is.

...though, well, now that I think about it more. Honestly, you know what’s gonna be your bigger problem? It is going to be extremely hard for you to literally just get into a room. Even before people reject you, no one is going to filter for bows, because Laranoa isn’t used either. Ain’t like some other elements where you can sneak in due to a viable 5* with that weapon type.
Yeah, well, I’m gonna go make my own room! With blackjack! And... uh... stickers! :P

But seriously, this is a very welcome reality check with some excellent points I hadn’t considered. I’ve stubbornly been using Renelle / Waike / Fran in their respective HDTs for months while refusing to use anyone else because running non-meta adventurers is one of my absolute favorite things to do in this game and I wouldn’t dare betray them, but I guess eHBH has finally forced me to abandon that approach specifically for that fight, or at least temporarily until we get more facility/dojo levels that gradually allow for other characters like Waike to be viable.

If I manage to summon Jiang Ziya, I just might have to step outside of my comfort zone and re-learn eHBH as a healer, which I’ll admit has me pretty nervous since from what I’ve seen it’s one of the most difficult roles to fill in the entire game. The plus side is being able to make a room and having the small luxury of being pickier about who gets in, since even after the influx of new Jiang Ziyas I have to imagine healers will still be in high demand.
 

deepFlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,751
Yeah, well, I’m gonna go make my own room! With blackjack! And... uh... stickers! :P

But seriously, this is a very welcome reality check with some excellent points I hadn’t considered. I’ve stubbornly been using Renelle / Waike / Fran in their respective HDTs for months while refusing to use anyone else because running non-meta adventurers is one of my absolute favorite things to do in this game and I wouldn’t dare betray them, but I guess eHBH has finally forced me to abandon that approach specifically for that fight, or at least temporarily until we get more facility/dojo levels that gradually allow for other characters like Waike to be viable.

If I manage to summon Jiang Ziya, I just might have to step outside of my comfort zone and re-learn eHBH as a healer, which I’ll admit has me pretty nervous since from what I’ve seen it’s one of the most difficult roles to fill in the entire game. The plus side is being able to make a room and having the small luxury of being pickier about who gets in, since even after the influx of new Jiang Ziyas I have to imagine healers will still be in high demand.
Yeah, I don't wanna push you away from doing a thing that's fun for you. But I just feel like you're asking for trouble/wasting time trying to run, if you even get in rooms. He's never gonna be meta for it but once you have a better dragon and we do get more facilities, augments, etc. you might have better luck getting people to try it. (...alternatively, go make him a MUB HD2 and force them to consider you that way, lol.)

If you have Chocolatiers for Thaniel or do get Jiang Ziya (since she has 100% skill prep), personally it's actually not going to be that difficult. Like, I did already have the HD1 0UB at the time, but I cleared Standard as Thaniel within 20 minutes of trying with way less prep or making my own reference notes than I did for any other high dragon. It was also the one I had the most luck in getting good groups for during TA. Though I did have a rough Expert session (but after my first clear, I think) which made me invest more in him and study the fight a little more so I didn't have to have a move guide up on my computer; still didn't take anywhere near as much time as other fights to internalize that stuff, though. (And I should say that the guide was pretty helpful despite being outdated/meant for a different weapon/possibly being off for a couple moves. Wish people would write or at least compile similar things for the more recent fights, rather than most text resources being Reddit posts or Discord pins that each have various bits of info.)

I can absolutely see how Thaniel pre-Chocolatiers would be complete hell due to the room for mistakes at the start, which is where a lot of the sentiment over it being bad comes from. Even now there's still some bits where you do need to RUSH to charge S1 again before its next use. But it's not a constant problem; you'll be sitting with it ready to go for big portions of the fight, it's just that it has to be used again fast once you have to take damage since it's not gonna heal you all the way. H. Maritimus makes it easier due to his skill haste if you have him (personally haven't ran eHBH again yet since MUBing him though), and now Jiang naturally should be able to deal with that better thanks to her S2 also having regen healing. I guess she could even have a force charge print to make it even easier, but I'm betting people usually want something that makes her stronger. In any case, beyond doing that healing, there's really only a couple specific things you alone are responsible for and most of that's very early on too; you otherwise just need to stay out of the way of the attacks that are being baited.

basically the melee baiter seems like they have a way worse job in HBH, imo; I'd also say it may be technically easier than, say, being Lowen/Noelle for HMC, though I find that more relaxing/consistent

...also I would not make the room as Thaniel/Jiang; I think it's usually the baiter who makes the room, due to HBH being glitchy as hell around desyncs
 

mockingbird

Member
Oct 27, 2017
803
Ok the other Superboss Dragon Trials aren't as difficult as Midgardsormr. Actually managed to completely clear Mercury on the first try. I take it getting more prints will make the rest much easier as well.

Edit: Complete cleared the rest except for Midgardsormr. I'm not doing enough damage to him to get close to the 240 second clear....
 
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