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Dragon Ball FighterZ |OT| Heaven or HFIL
- Thread starter donkey
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Most people don't use it raw though, they use it to cover things that should be unsafe or hella negative and then get a + frame advantage situation out of it. That's the part that's messed up to me. I'm all for spending a bar to save face in a situation, but having the advantage afterward is baffling to me. Even if it was just -1 frame on block that would have more positive potential outcomes for the person who blocked the vanish than the person who committed to it, and that's all I want. I feel like I shouldn't have to be stuck at disadvantage next to Cell, with his huge ass normals catching backdash, 3 lows, and insane pressure because I was unfortunate enough to have to block an angled beam.
Vanish being plus on block is stupid. The system as it is for getting out of tricky situations or out of the corner is fine, and you can get punished hard for it for abusing it. But also being able to keep your offense with this defensive tool doesn't make sense, especially when it's inconsistent based on height.
Making it minus oB (but safe, not punishable) is just intuitive (and how people felt it should be when the game first came out, hence people always getting counter hit when they thought it was their turn after blocking it). It would also remove a lot of the stupid pressure, like 16 being full screen away, doing j.S, and suddenly being in your face and it's time to guess what he's going to do (without being able to backdash because of his limbs).
I'm hoping 21 doesn't get hit too hard aside from removing the infinites. She's such a fun character right now.
I wasn't expecting any system changes before Evo. So that's a welcome surprise.
I wasn't expecting any system changes before Evo. So that's a welcome surprise.
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In Discord I posted my hopes for a z-deflect buff. Like maybe make it last a few extra frames or is it the netcode itslef thats screwing me? Yesterday, as a test, I tried to z-deflect my way out of the corner. Think I tried it at least 5 times and it never worked.
Guess I'll watch the replay. I'm sure it's gonna be like, "Oh snap I'm a few frames too early". But wish it lasted longer or something. Seems hard to 'time it' during online play
I really need to put more effort into finding a local. See how this game plays when there's no lag involved.
edit- Shiii, you know what? I need to record a bot doing some blockstrings etc and just practice z-deflect. This might be my bad I just dunno
Guess I'll watch the replay. I'm sure it's gonna be like, "Oh snap I'm a few frames too early". But wish it lasted longer or something. Seems hard to 'time it' during online play
I really need to put more effort into finding a local. See how this game plays when there's no lag involved.
edit- Shiii, you know what? I need to record a bot doing some blockstrings etc and just practice z-deflect. This might be my bad I just dunno
I think Vanish being plus on block has more to do with the weird (at least for me) way the game treats landing frames and how you can cancel them. Like, depending on the height of your opponent your Vanish can be plus, neutral, negative or somethimes even punishable. But I don't know if they would be willing to touch something that would essentially affect all jumping attacks.
Woops dbl post
More thought on vanish being negative since i claimed the real estate:
So i do the whole parry/backdash thing usually against vanish (this is discounting the whole blockstun->vanish->more pressure thing we're talking about). If it's say -2 on the ground, that means that the cast is incentivized to mash against a blocked vanish, so the suggestion here is to reverse pressure when a blocked vanish occurs? In the back of my head i also feel like 18 can fail mashing 5l against something like that but i have no proof lol.
One thing i was thinking about is special frame properties for vanish when hitting ppl already in block stun but thats probably needlessly complicated
More thought on vanish being negative since i claimed the real estate:
So i do the whole parry/backdash thing usually against vanish (this is discounting the whole blockstun->vanish->more pressure thing we're talking about). If it's say -2 on the ground, that means that the cast is incentivized to mash against a blocked vanish, so the suggestion here is to reverse pressure when a blocked vanish occurs? In the back of my head i also feel like 18 can fail mashing 5l against something like that but i have no proof lol.
One thing i was thinking about is special frame properties for vanish when hitting ppl already in block stun but thats probably needlessly complicated
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I agree with making vanish not plus, when I started playing the game it was infuriating. Maybe it's just me but the way it is animated does not look like a plus on block move.
Maybe make it plus on block with sparking?
Maybe make it plus on block with sparking?
I hope you don't mean shit as in bad, because I personally think it's too good and obnoxious. You shouldn't be able to cancel everything with a super dash to make it safe.
Huh I need to start doing that ^
"cancel everything with a super dash to make it safe." <--- Really really need to try that one.
"cancel everything with a super dash to make it safe." <--- Really really need to try that one.
When you say this, what do you mean? What frame traps are there that can be cancelled with a super dash without a gap to 2H it?
I mean in shit as I hate the mechanic and wish it wasn't in the game haha.
Good way to get constantly 2H'd.
From my experience, if the opponent is close enough to you they can super dash after a blocked 2H or 2M and the like without fear of getting punished by a 2H. Since they're so close, it's extremely difficult to punish on reaction so I'm forced to block and they can continue pressure. It also seems like if they're really close, my 2H is to slow on startup so I get counter hit by the super dash. It could be character specific too. Frieza for example is a lot harder to punish with a 2H for some reason and some characters have a worse 2H than others so they have a harder time punishing. I can't explain it but it's really annoying. I've gone to training mode against Frieza and I cannot seem to punish his super dash if he's too close to me.
^ Yeah its hard to stop the SD spam if they're really close.
Hm, but I need to try this though. Maybe I'll just get 2H'ed into oblivion if it's only 2-4fr
Hm, but I need to try this though. Maybe I'll just get 2H'ed into oblivion if it's only 2-4fr
That's fair enough. Generally, when they're close enough and they try something like 5H > SD, I can reliably 2H punish with A21. Though, yeah, that's more anticipatory than reactionary, and you can get punished for it if they decide to cancel into a special instead. With Broly, it seems harder for me to do the same, possibly due to his height.
Yeah that's why I usually don't try it unless they're being extremely obvious with it. But most of the time I guess wrong and get punished by a Kamehameha or something.
I'd be okay with 16 losing the hard knockdown on his light command grab but anything more might be taking it a little too far especially if Vegeta's assist gets nerfed at all
Yep, i dont expect too ham of changes in general since the patch seems to be kinda grand in scale. Potential stuff like a guard cancel change or vegeta assist change definitely has a wide arc of effect for the entire game, so they can def shoot themselves in the foot if the changes dony coalesce well
i wouldn't be shocked if Gohan or Kid Buu somehow walk out of this patch even better than they were before
As far as I can tell, the quote only mentioned buffing Frieza & nerfing Vegeta's assist.
I can see it. Along with gohan buffs as well.
I'd personally like to see 16 keep the HKD but just make it so he's further away making his oki not terrifying. I'd also would give him just one hit of armor on 5H
Gohan's gonna be tough to adjust since everything he has functions so well in the context of the universal mechanics of the game. They'd have to lock a ton of stuff behind leveling him up to make him reasonable w/o fundamentally changing the character, IMO.
Yeah i was thinking this as an option too, if he's too far away for iad crossup
This is what I'm hoping too. Was thinking about picking her back up again because I had a lot of fun playing her and kind of miss her. I think she is pretty well balanced outside the infinite.
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