Dragon Ball FighterZ |OT2| Let's Rock The Dragon

shaowebb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,041
Has this been confirmed?

Edit: Just found the thread.
It was at the end of the actual trailer man. It was odd though. When Gematsu first loaded the vid and story it was like they hadn't watched till the end. They only mentioned Jiren Videl. Me and others brought it up in the comments then suddenly the title changed and screenshots of all 4 plus the date were shown lol.
Dat rush to put up news meant some folks ran to post before fully watching I guess.
 

CQC

Member
Oct 25, 2017
546
Thinking about picking up this game again since season 2 is around the corner. Stopped playing after Vegito and Fused Zamasu came out.

What are good team comps for cooler? I was thinking A21/Goku Black/Cooler or Kid Buu/Black/Cooler.

Apparently Vegito is better now too? Thinking of Vegito/ ??? / Gotenks. Stuck between Bardock or Trunks for mid, or I could settle for someone with a beam assist.

Catch me up to speed.
 

LightBang

Member
Mar 16, 2018
472
Jiren looks meh, Videl looks fantastic. I'm fine with Gogeta but I haven't seen the movie and it depends on what they do with him. Likewise with Broly although them using his Base image is a huge positive in my opinion.

Hyped for another World Tour but please add a point system!

Finally I've seen a lot of people saying "another female being helped by a male" in regards do Videl. Do these people realize Videl only has 1 fight in the manga, similar to #18 who only has a full fight and a short co-op fight in History of Trunks(when ToP wasn't out). The game isn' t being misogynistic, they created #21 female because Dragon Ball is a sausage fest and the inclusion of Videl is nothing but a surprise since there's a bunch of more important character who aren't in.

Thinking about picking up this game again since season 2 is around the corner. Stopped playing after Vegito and Fused Zamasu came out.

What are good team comps for cooler? I was thinking A21/Goku Black/Cooler or Kid Buu/Black/Cooler.

Apparently Vegito is better now too? Thinking of Vegito/ ??? / Gotenks. Stuck between Bardock or Trunks for mid, or I could settle for someone with a beam assist.

Catch me up to speed.
We should have a few system changes with Season 2, changes to DHC specially might change who meshes well with who. So saying something now might not carry over to the new version of the game.
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,268
Finally I've seen a lot of people saying "another female being helped by a male" in regards do Videl. Do these people realize Videl only has 1 fight in the manga, similar to #18 who only has a full fight and a short co-op fight in History of Trunks(when ToP wasn't out). The game isn' t being misogynistic, they created #21 female because Dragon Ball is a sausage fest and the inclusion of Videl is nothing but a surprise since there's a bunch of more important character who aren't in.
Since it's a reflection of DBZ itself, I think it's a fair complaint that 2/3 of the playable female characters in the game need assistance from a male character. It's basically a criticism of the source material brought into the light once more because of this.
 

LightBang

Member
Mar 16, 2018
472
Since it's a reflection of DBZ itself, I think it's a fair complaint that 2/3 of the playable female characters in the game need assistance from a male character. It's basically a criticism of the source material brought into the light once more because of this.
I'm my opinion it's misguided since this is a 90's manga directed at young males. Besides no work of art has to be representative of anything if it doesn't try to be realistic.

I don't see anyone praising Dragon Ball for having Piccolo an asexual non-gendered character for the lack of a better description and they shouldn't because it doesn't care about itself, it's a freaking fantasy World.
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,268
I'm my opinion it's misguided since this is a 90's manga directed at young males. Besides no work of art has to be representative of anything if it doesn't try to be realistic.

I don't see anyone praising Dragon Ball for having Piccolo an asexual non-gendered character for the lack of a better description and they shouldn't because it doesn't care about itself, it's a freaking fantasy World.
This argument just doesn't make sense to me. When it comes to representation, it's analogous to the arguments people made to support The Order 1886's lack of people of color—because "it wouldn't make sense"—in a fantasy world with fantastical monsters. If it's not realistic, then there should be no limits to the representation a work has, yet DBZ is basically all about muscly men with the same skin tone beating each other up, and some aliens.

There are plenty of manga (or media, in general) aimed at young males that still feature plenty of prominent, competent female characters. Hell, Naruto's one of them. It's also a slippery slope argument you're presenting, in the era of #MeToo, where you can say that something was "fine for the time" and avail it of today's criticisms.

It's fine to recgonize that this is how DBZ was and is, but representation is a good thing, and people are simply pointing out—correctly—that DB lacks it.
 

LightBang

Member
Mar 16, 2018
472
This argument just doesn't make sense to me. When it comes to representation, it's analogous to the arguments people made to support The Order 1886's lack of people of color—because "it wouldn't make sense"—in a fantasy world with fantastical monsters. If it's not realistic, then there should be no limits to the representation a work has, yet DBZ is basically all about muscly men with the same skin tone beating each other up, and some aliens.

There are plenty of manga (or media, in general) aimed at young males that still feature plenty of prominent, competent female characters. Hell, Naruto's one of them. It's also a slippery slope argument you're presenting, in the era of #MeToo, where you can say that something was "fine for the time" and avail it of today's criticisms.

It's fine to recgonize that this is how DBZ was and is, but representation is a good thing, and people are simply pointing out—correctly—that DB lacks it.
I insist no work of art needs to represent anything at all. My Piccolo example is not defending and saying it does good things, it's doubling down that it doesn't matter! Even if it was the most diversified World it doesn't deserve praising just because of it, the same it doesn't deserve criticism. Such mentality is akin to censure, let artists create freely and not set "rules".

So you're defending homogenization of art? I repeat no work of art needs to have anything. Also Dragon Ball has one of the stronger female manga characters ever and that's Bulma who thrives in a World where power levels are king by using her brain.
Now should Bulma be in FighterZ? Personalty I don't think so because this is a fighting game and she never fight's. There's context here and people saying Videl is being helped by GT Saiyaman and that's bad are ignoring context.

I would hate them to make up moves to force x characters to be in, instead of trying to make everything work taking into account the source material.

Finally I'm not saying Dragon Ball is fine for it's time, there's quite a few problems in regards to sexual harassment. Just giving context why there's fewer woman and there's nothing wrong with it.

If from now on shows/manga/books need to have ratio's of all kind of people's to be acceptable, ignoring it's content , and people disregard it from the get go, then that's a pretty shit World.
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,268
I insist no work of art needs to represent anything at all. My Piccolo example is not defending and saying it does good things, it's doubling down that it doesn't matter! Even if it was the most diversified World it doesn't deserve praising just because of it, the same it doesn't deserve criticism. Such mentality is akin to censure, let artists create freely and not set "rules".

If from now on shows/manga/book need to have ratio's of all kind of people's to be acceptable and ignoring it's content people disregard from the get go, then that's a pretty shit World.
This debate is kind of too tangential from this thread, and I'm not really invested in FighterZ itself, either. But I do think representation in work of art is important, as someone who suffered from the lack of it in media growing up. It's not easy when the media you enjoy never acknowledges that someone can look like you do. It belittles your existence, and contributes to ongoing problems of discrimination and xenophobia that perpetuates society today. Media representation is at the core of these issues.

The fact of the matter is that the roster has 3 female characters out of I don't know how many, and 2 of them need to fight alongside a man. That's just how it is. And if someone has an issue with it, I can fully understand why. It does nothing to hand-wave the personal issues one might have with it, even if you don't share them. Representation might not matter at all to you, but it does to others. There's no reason to disregard that.
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,412
A set "ratio" of inclusiveness, which seems like a dismissive way to regard critiques concerning representation, is neither asked for nor expected. A reasonable degree of self-awareness on the part of creators to recognize homogeneity is welcome.
 
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Hyun Sai

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,845
Wow, they managed to make Jiren even less charismatic than in the anime... At least they nailed Videl.
 

LightBang

Member
Mar 16, 2018
472
This debate is kind of too tangential from this thread, and I'm not really invested in FighterZ itself, either. But I do think representation in work of art is important, as someone who suffered from the lack of it in media growing up. It's not easy when the media you enjoy never acknowledges that someone can look like you do. It belittles your existence, and contributes to ongoing problems of discrimination and xenophobia that perpetuates society today. Media representation is at the core of these issues.

The fact of the matter is that the roster has 3 female characters out of I don't know how many, and 2 of them need to fight alongside a man. That's just how it is. And if someone has an issue with it, I can fully understand why. It does nothing to hand-wave the personal issues one might have with it, even if you don't share them. Representation might not matter at all to you, but it does to others. There's no reason to disregard that.
To be clear, I'm not disregarding or hand-waving anyone. I hope I made my views clear. I said my stance is in regards to fantasy World's, if someone were to write a story about the city I live in and there were only white people, you can be sure I would call it out for misrepresentation.

Anyway, this is getting off-topic.
 

Uraizen

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,048
Namco, please release a balance patch with Jiren/Videl or soon after. Watching the DBFZ World Tour should give them some insight on what they need to work on hopefully.

EDIT: Kinda got my answer.

 
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NamasteWager

Member
Oct 27, 2017
821
I jumped back on this weekend and I feel like I saw more characters played than I normally do, so that is really cool. I picked up a new team Bardock/Beerus/Base Goku, and I saw a lot of people rage quit (only demon rank). Is this a common thing now? When I was playing earlier last year, I dont recall ever having one rage quit.

Side question: what all characters can combo into Base Goku Lvl 3? I chose Beerus because hes fast and his lvl1 goes into spirit bomb, but I wouldnt mind switching him out
 

Uraizen

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,048
I jumped back on this weekend and I feel like I saw more characters played than I normally do, so that is really cool. I picked up a new team Bardock/Beerus/Base Goku, and I saw a lot of people rage quit (only demon rank). Is this a common thing now? When I was playing earlier last year, I dont recall ever having one rage quit.

Side question: what all characters can combo into Base Goku Lvl 3? I chose Beerus because hes fast and his lvl1 goes into spirit bomb, but I wouldnt mind switching him out
Not complete, but better than nothing.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dbfz/comments/95za0p/spirit_bomb_setups_with_all_characters/

EDIT: Also based on older patch since Hit's won't work anymore.
 

Twig

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,713
Do these people realize Videl only has 1 fight in the manga
To be honest...

Who cares?

This is a video game. Let Videl fight on her own. It doesn't matter if "in the show" she was pretty weak. You've got Yamcha fighting against Beerus and winning (lol poor beerus). Nobody's complaining about that...

Like, I think it's cool to see her working alongside Saiyaman, 'cause Saiyaman is the best Gohan has ever been and ever will be, but also... Representation matters. The only woman who fights by herself is basically a sex doll. The two badass women require men to back them up. "Canon" doesn't fucking matter.

If I sound like I'm attacking you personally, I don't really mean to. I just think it's dismissive of the issue to call out faithfulness to the manga when you have so much shit that would never happen in the manga (or anime) in this game.
 

LightBang

Member
Mar 16, 2018
472
To be honest...

Who cares?

This is a video game. Let Videl fight on her own. It doesn't matter if "in the show" she was pretty weak. You've got Yamcha fighting against Beerus and winning (lol poor beerus). Nobody's complaining about that...

Like, I think it's cool to see her working alongside Saiyaman, 'cause Saiyaman is the best Gohan has ever been and ever will be, but also... Representation matters. The only woman who fights by herself is basically a sex doll. The two badass women require men to back them up. "Canon" doesn't fucking matter.

If I sound like I'm attacking you personally, I don't really mean to. I just think it's dismissive of the issue to call out faithfulness to the manga when you have so much shit that would never happen in the manga (or anime) in this game.
I care.

Doesn't mean I'm happy with all choices made in the game neither does it mean that I can't compromise.

People aren't complaining about power levels because they have to compromise, otherwise this game wouldn't even exist and this discussion either. But there's a limit, just because we accept one thing doesn't mean we accept everything, if we did why should we care about something that clearly isn't Dragon Ball anymore...

Videl fights with a man for the same reason Ginyu fights with four aliens. Both are characters without enough material to be in alone, so ArcSys took the chance to add logical characters to their moveset. They are just being consistent, same for #18, they aren't undermining woman by having a man save them. That's a dishonest narrative.

Don't worry, I don't think you're attacking me. As long people are polite it's all fine.
 

febLey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,079
Germany
I’m thinking about getting back into DBFZ.
How large are the playerbases on the different platforms nowadays?
I guess something like this PS4/PC > PC/PS4 > Xbox > Switch, right?
Not sure where to get it, Xbox looks better, but if the PS4 really has the bigger playerbase, I’ll stick to that one.
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,412
I’m thinking about getting back into DBFZ.
How large are the playerbases on the different platforms nowadays?
I guess something like this PS4/PC > PC/PS4 > Xbox > Switch, right?
Not sure where to get it, Xbox looks better, but if the PS4 really has the bigger playerbase, I’ll stick to that one.
I recall nothing about the Xbox version (or any base XB1 game) looking better, but the largest playerbase is indeed on PS4 as with other multiplatform fighters with that as an option.
 

Uraizen

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,048
I’m thinking about getting back into DBFZ.
How large are the playerbases on the different platforms nowadays?
I guess something like this PS4/PC > PC/PS4 > Xbox > Switch, right?
Not sure where to get it, Xbox looks better, but if the PS4 really has the bigger playerbase, I’ll stick to that one.
Not sure if the game looks better on Xbox or PS4. Xbox has Ring Match invites, but PS4 has a larger playerbase. I think those are the only differences?

When can I pre-order Fighter Pass 2? I don't see it online PS4 yet
It's not on Steam yet either. If it's like Tekken 7 then we can't buy it until the day the characters are released.
 

Twig

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,713
I care.

Doesn't mean I'm happy with all choices made in the game neither does it mean that I can't compromise.

People aren't complaining about power levels because they have to compromise, otherwise this game wouldn't even exist and this discussion either. But there's a limit, just because we accept one thing doesn't mean we accept everything, if we did why should we care about something that clearly isn't Dragon Ball anymore...

Videl fights with a man for the same reason Ginyu fights with four aliens. Both are characters without enough material to be in alone, so ArcSys took the chance to add logical characters to their moveset. They are just being consistent, same for #18, they aren't undermining woman by having a man save them. That's a dishonest narrative.

Don't worry, I don't think you're attacking me. As long people are polite it's all fine.
Videl didn't have to fight with Gohan until after Gohan showed up. She was fighting crime before that. She was raised by Mr. Satan. She can fight on her own by all accounts. She just can't stand up to aliens and demons. Except, this is a video game, so she can. If Krillin can fight Beerus, Videl can fight Yamcha on her own. There's no reason to do this besides "oh but she's so weakkkkkkkkk".

I guess the crux of it is, this was a golden opportunity to not fall into the same trap they did with 18. Instead they took the shitty route. Oops.

Also does Ginyu ever actually do a REAL fight with his underlings? It's been a while since I watched the Frieza saga, but I'm pretty sure his big fight was solo against Goku.

It's absolutely 100% not dishonest to call out Bandai Namco for falling into the same sexist traps as the manga.
 

febLey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,079
Germany
I recall nothing about the Xbox version (or any base XB1 game) looking better, but the largest playerbase is indeed on PS4 as with other multiplatform fighters with that as an option.
Not sure if the game looks better on Xbox or PS4. Xbox has Ring Match invites, but PS4 has a larger playerbase. I think those are the only differences?
Sorry, I was talking about both enhanced console, so 1836p (One X) vs 1620p (Pro).
Theoretically it’ll look a bit sharper on One X. But it isn’t that big of so difference.
So I’ll go with the PS4 Pro version.
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,268
Game has a Burst now. This is what people had been talking about for a while when the topic came about what they could do about defensive options.


Also, invul. DP into assist on block is gone. That was complete garbage, so a good change.
 

FSLink

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,195
invul. DP into assist on block is gone. That was complete garbage, so a good change.
You mean completely gone. They attempted to patch it out already but didn't notice A.Gohan's DP lasts longer so his still worked. Now they sensibly removed the ability to call assists during invuln moves unless it hits
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,268
You mean completely gone. They attempted to patch it out already but didn't notice A.Gohan's DP lasts longer so his still worked. Now they sensibly removed the ability to call assists during invuln moves unless it hits
So it was just his? That's still messed up, but less so. I know that it was a factor in the Grand Finals this past weekend from watching that set.
 

Hyun Sai

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,845
From reddit : https://www.reddit.com/r/dbfz/comments/akzbv7/patch_notes_japanese/

- You will be able to Spark during block (like burst from GG)
- You can reflect sparking now
- Blue life gain while taking damage reduced
- Using a move that consumes meter will make you gain reduced meter for certain frames which means Ghost oki and hellzone oki won't be as powerful since they won't be able to gain one bar again
- Increased backdash distance on the ground
- Guard cancel has invul during the superdash animation which is guess means you won't be able to vanish to it in reaction and punish
- It seems that you won't be able to dhc that easy (double supers etc)
- Using multiples lvl1's in a combo (like Bardock lvl1 punch and then continuing the combo with vegeta assist) will do less damage overall
- Dragon rush will do less damage and build less meter
- You won't be able to Dragon Rush multiple times in a combo (Using SSJ Goku or SSJ Vegeta assists etc)
- Using the dragon balls to revive a character will grant him more health
- The dragon balls "immortal" wish seems to be more powerful
 

sandboxgod

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,644
Austin, Texas
From reddit : https://www.reddit.com/r/dbfz/comments/akzbv7/patch_notes_japanese/

- You will be able to Spark during block (like burst from GG)
- You can reflect sparking now
- Blue life gain while taking damage reduced
- Using a move that consumes meter will make you gain reduced meter for certain frames which means Ghost oki and hellzone oki won't be as powerful since they won't be able to gain one bar again
- Increased backdash distance on the ground
- Guard cancel has invul during the superdash animation which is guess means you won't be able to vanish to it in reaction and punish
- It seems that you won't be able to dhc that easy (double supers etc)
- Using multiples lvl1's in a combo (like Bardock lvl1 punch and then continuing the combo with vegeta assist) will do less damage overall
- Dragon rush will do less damage and build less meter
- You won't be able to Dragon Rush multiple times in a combo (Using SSJ Goku or SSJ Vegeta assists etc)
- Using the dragon balls to revive a character will grant him more health
- The dragon balls "immortal" wish seems to be more powerful
Finally!!!!! Some real defensive options!!!!!!!
Not being able to use assists during blockstun is still going to be annoying for me though but I'd imagine pros love the overwhleming offense. just need to work on my blockstrings I guess
Blue life regen nerf will really help

but they still not bending on SD changes. It beats too much stuff FUUUUUUU. And its way too fast I cant even get a Beam out before it hits me half the time
 

MortosDer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
506
From reddit : https://www.reddit.com/r/dbfz/comments/akzbv7/patch_notes_japanese/

- You will be able to Spark during block (like burst from GG)
- You can reflect sparking now
- Blue life gain while taking damage reduced
- Using a move that consumes meter will make you gain reduced meter for certain frames which means Ghost oki and hellzone oki won't be as powerful since they won't be able to gain one bar again
- Increased backdash distance on the ground
- Guard cancel has invul during the superdash animation which is guess means you won't be able to vanish to it in reaction and punish
- It seems that you won't be able to dhc that easy (double supers etc)
- Using multiples lvl1's in a combo (like Bardock lvl1 punch and then continuing the combo with vegeta assist) will do less damage overall
- Dragon rush will do less damage and build less meter
- You won't be able to Dragon Rush multiple times in a combo (Using SSJ Goku or SSJ Vegeta assists etc)
- Using the dragon balls to revive a character will grant him more health
- The dragon balls "immortal" wish seems to be more powerful
From a post in that same thread

"air DR in the combo will trigger slide kd "
 

Keylow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
390
They didn’t nerf super dash it looks like :/. It’s the number one reason I don’t play the game anymore
 
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Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,089
No nerf to super dash is the best thing about these patch notes. There's nothing wrong with it
 

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,089
They didn't go far enough with changing how dramatic finishes happen. It should just be when X beats Y on Z stage.
 

Scything

Member
Oct 25, 2017
444
Nakkiel at the very least seems very upset about the guard cancel changes; came in late so missed most of the discussion something about you can just guard cancel longish animation moves like vegito's 5L or beyblade and there's not much the attacker can do about it? Or something along those lines?