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Dragon Ball Super |OT5| A new ERA of Dragon Ball [Tag all DBS Broly spoilers until February 1st]

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Oct 25, 2017
13,605
i'm going back through the tournament of power and besides the takahashi and tate stuff this shit looks STIFF

specifically looking at Jiren's moves and how they compare to his cinematics in FighterZ, and yeah... most of the time FighterZ has the anime version of the move beat.
 
Oct 27, 2017
14
Sadly Kai isn't available for streaming, but it is the best way to rewatch Z.
If you do go that route be aware that the Buu arc was done much later by a different group of people, so it's a lower quality remaster and left a lot of filler in, including stuff that directly conflicts with Super. As for the link, yeah, there's nothing wrong with the Kai season sets.

Super is on Crunchyroll though, so when you get there you can stream that.
But also keep in mind that the best way to watch Super while saving time and skipping some of the worst looking episodes is in the Q&A in the OP. Super was rushed to air, so the production struggled a lot and you could see that on screen, but the worst of it was in the F arc and it go better every arc from there.
Hey thanks - and apologies about reviewing the OP, I must have missed that part in the Q&A area while looking it over.

I'm excited to get back into all this, but it's overwhelming how many options and ways there are to do it!
 
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ArchedThunder

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,773
i'm going back through the tournament of power and besides the takahashi and tate stuff this shit looks STIFF

specifically looking at Jiren's moves and how they compare to his cinematics in FighterZ, and yeah... most of the time FighterZ has the anime version of the move beat.
There's plenty of stiff stuff in there, but but there is a whole lot of non stiff stuff that isn't Takahashi or Tate.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,183
I thought it was funny that Bulma doing "calculations" was just her grabbing a calculator and going like "pi pi pi piiii" but later I learned that that's supposed to be a sound effect and not her thinking of the mathematical pi.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,183
Man Frieza saga is freaking crazy. It shows off perfectly what I'd want more out of Super+. That saga is highkey intricate in terms of all the stuff that's going on. Super arcs are so straightforward in comparison.

I think largely what makes Dragon Ball Z great is not the deep plot/story, deep thematic details, deep characters (though the character development that is in Z is not bad), but the way things escalate. The progression of events.

With the way the power system works, it seems like it could only produce such stale results. Things are so binary in terms of who's stronger, what characters can last where, etc. But that makes me more appreciate what I think DBZ does well. Ever heard of limitation breeds creativity?

Think of a chess board. You have so many pieces that can only do one thing, but different things. (Probably not even a good example, it's more like if almost every piece moved like a rook, except some pieces are more limited in travel distance than others). When you have such a system, you gotta compensate somehow, and I think he ended up doing it pretty dang well. It's how he set up the chess board... And now that I think of it, maybe something more varied than my board of rooks is more warranted, it isn't all just about battle power.

You have the Frieza force who can only use their scouters to track, so that factor is taken advantage of to progress the events in an interesting way.
Even having the Zenkai boosts I think adds a cool variable to how things can play out, and Dende, and the Elder. The alliances. The dragon balls. Vegeta eventually learning how to track ki which I think was done very well. Honestly the dragon balls are a really good McGuffin sometimes. Each alliance has their own strengths and weaknesses that carry them on in a certain way that makes things interesting, and this plays into how the dragon balls are tracked too.

I think a key part to making these DB arcs good is how you take these constants and variables to interact and intertwine them in a certain way to further escalate everything. And I don't think Frieza saga does this without its problems, but god dang it does it freaking good overall. I can maybe see how people could think it is a slog waiting week by week, but reading through it all within a few days or so is great imo.

I can also see the complaints about a lot of it just being a wait for Goku, but for me I'm just getting enjoyment out of how this puzzle is constructed. You have these pieces that seem maybe not the most varied and interesting on the surface when we're looking at how power matters, but how can you put it together in a way that goes beyond the surface of this relatively rigid power structure? Surprisingly good.
 
Oct 28, 2017
6,700
Tbilisi, Georgia
i'm going back through the tournament of power and besides the takahashi and tate stuff this shit looks STIFF

specifically looking at Jiren's moves and how they compare to his cinematics in FighterZ, and yeah... most of the time FighterZ has the anime version of the move beat.
Broly movie fucking ruined my tolerance for blagh DBS animation.

I can't go back.

They better bring some more sakuga to the table this time.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,605
Man Frieza saga is freaking crazy. It shows off perfectly what I'd want more out of Super+. That saga is highkey intricate in terms of all the stuff that's going on. Super arcs are so straightforward in comparison.

I think largely what makes Dragon Ball Z great is not the deep plot/story, deep thematic details, deep characters (though the character development that is in Z is not bad), but the way things escalate. The progression of events.

With the way the power system works, it seems like it could only produce such stale results. Things are so binary in terms of who's stronger, what characters can last where, etc. But that makes me more appreciate what I think DBZ does well. Ever heard of limitation breeds creativity?

Think of a chess board. You have so many pieces that can only do one thing, but different things. (Probably not even a good example, it's more like if almost every piece moved like a rook, except some pieces are more limited in travel distance than others). When you have such a system, you gotta compensate somehow, and I think he ended up doing it pretty dang well. It's how he set up the chess board... And now that I think of it, maybe something more varied than my board of rooks is more warranted, it isn't all just about battle power.

You have the Frieza force who can only use their scouters to track, so that factor is taken advantage of to progress the events in an interesting way.
Even having the Zenkai boosts I think adds a cool variable to how things can play out, and Dende, and the Elder. The alliances. The dragon balls. Vegeta eventually learning how to track ki which I think was done very well. Honestly the dragon balls are a really good McGuffin sometimes. Each alliance has their own strengths and weaknesses that carry them on in a certain way that makes things interesting, and this plays into how the dragon balls are tracked too.

I think a key part to making these DB arcs good is how you take these constants and variables to interact and intertwine them in a certain way to further escalate everything. And I don't think Frieza saga does this without its problems, but god dang it does it freaking good overall. I can maybe see how people could think it is a slog waiting week by week, but reading through it all within a few days or so is great imo.

I can also see the complaints about a lot of it just being a wait for Goku, but for me I'm just getting enjoyment out of how this puzzle is constructed. You have these pieces that seem maybe not the most varied and interesting on the surface when we're looking at how power matters, but how can you put it together in a way that goes beyond the surface of this relatively rigid power structure? Surprisingly good.
krillin < gohan < dodoria < zarbon < vegeta < 2nd form zarbon < guldo < zenkai boost vegeta < recoome < jeice < burter < ginyu < goku < ginyu in goku's body after trading bodies where goku is now ginyu with a giant gaping wound < 1st form freeza < 2nd form freeza < piccolo < pissed off gohan after krillin gets impaled < 3rd form freeza < another zenkai boost vegeta < final form freeza < goku zenkai boost < 5% freeza < 20x kaioken goku < 50% freeza < 100% freeza < super saiyan goku

yeah it's a pretty fun journey :)
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,803
AZ, USA
Man Frieza saga is freaking crazy. It shows off perfectly what I'd want more out of Super+. That saga is highkey intricate in terms of all the stuff that's going on. Super arcs are so straightforward in comparison.

I think largely what makes Dragon Ball Z great is not the deep plot/story, deep thematic details, deep characters (though the character development that is in Z is not bad), but the way things escalate. The progression of events.

With the way the power system works, it seems like it could only produce such stale results. Things are so binary in terms of who's stronger, what characters can last where, etc. But that makes me more appreciate what I think DBZ does well. Ever heard of limitation breeds creativity?

Think of a chess board. You have so many pieces that can only do one thing, but different things. (Probably not even a good example, it's more like if almost every piece moved like a rook, except some pieces are more limited in travel distance than others). When you have such a system, you gotta compensate somehow, and I think he ended up doing it pretty dang well. It's how he set up the chess board... And now that I think of it, maybe something more varied than my board of rooks is more warranted, it isn't all just about battle power.

You have the Frieza force who can only use their scouters to track, so that factor is taken advantage of to progress the events in an interesting way.
Even having the Zenkai boosts I think adds a cool variable to how things can play out, and Dende, and the Elder. The alliances. The dragon balls. Vegeta eventually learning how to track ki which I think was done very well. Honestly the dragon balls are a really good McGuffin sometimes. Each alliance has their own strengths and weaknesses that carry them on in a certain way that makes things interesting, and this plays into how the dragon balls are tracked too.

I think a key part to making these DB arcs good is how you take these constants and variables to interact and intertwine them in a certain way to further escalate everything. And I don't think Frieza saga does this without its problems, but god dang it does it freaking good overall. I can maybe see how people could think it is a slog waiting week by week, but reading through it all within a few days or so is great imo.

I can also see the complaints about a lot of it just being a wait for Goku, but for me I'm just getting enjoyment out of how this puzzle is constructed. You have these pieces that seem maybe not the most varied and interesting on the surface when we're looking at how power matters, but how can you put it together in a way that goes beyond the surface of this relatively rigid power structure? Surprisingly good.
Hard agree. I had a blast rewatching the arc when I was working my way through the broadcast audio. It just feels so well constructed and is a natural progression from the Saiyan arc. The Cell arc used to be my favorite, but going into it now after enjoying the Namek arc so much it's such a mess to me now in comparison. Freeza is definitely one of the times DB was at it's absolute best.
 
Dec 10, 2017
4,388
Broly movie fucking ruined my tolerance for blagh DBS animation.

I can't go back.

They better bring some more sakuga to the table this time.
Well I liked the animation of Broly, I actually don’t like the ever changing art styles. It got jarring since some artists have a very different looked from another.
 
Dec 10, 2017
4,388
Hard agree. I had a blast rewatching the arc when I was working my way through the broadcast audio. It just feels so well constructed and is a natural progression from the Saiyan arc. The Cell arc used to be my favorite, but going into it now after enjoying the Namek arc so much it's such a mess to me now in comparison. Freeza is definitely one of the times DB was at it's absolute best.
I would say that only holds true until the fight with Frieza. Than it becomes extremely linear and over stays it’s welcome. Kai fixes some of those issues, but the best parts of Namek is before Goku’s arrival.
 
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ArchedThunder

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,773
Man Frieza saga is freaking crazy. It shows off perfectly what I'd want more out of Super+. That saga is highkey intricate in terms of all the stuff that's going on. Super arcs are so straightforward in comparison.

I think largely what makes Dragon Ball Z great is not the deep plot/story, deep thematic details, deep characters (though the character development that is in Z is not bad), but the way things escalate. The progression of events.

With the way the power system works, it seems like it could only produce such stale results. Things are so binary in terms of who's stronger, what characters can last where, etc. But that makes me more appreciate what I think DBZ does well. Ever heard of limitation breeds creativity?

Think of a chess board. You have so many pieces that can only do one thing, but different things. (Probably not even a good example, it's more like if almost every piece moved like a rook, except some pieces are more limited in travel distance than others). When you have such a system, you gotta compensate somehow, and I think he ended up doing it pretty dang well. It's how he set up the chess board... And now that I think of it, maybe something more varied than my board of rooks is more warranted, it isn't all just about battle power.

You have the Frieza force who can only use their scouters to track, so that factor is taken advantage of to progress the events in an interesting way.
Even having the Zenkai boosts I think adds a cool variable to how things can play out, and Dende, and the Elder. The alliances. The dragon balls. Vegeta eventually learning how to track ki which I think was done very well. Honestly the dragon balls are a really good McGuffin sometimes. Each alliance has their own strengths and weaknesses that carry them on in a certain way that makes things interesting, and this plays into how the dragon balls are tracked too.

I think a key part to making these DB arcs good is how you take these constants and variables to interact and intertwine them in a certain way to further escalate everything. And I don't think Frieza saga does this without its problems, but god dang it does it freaking good overall. I can maybe see how people could think it is a slog waiting week by week, but reading through it all within a few days or so is great imo.

I can also see the complaints about a lot of it just being a wait for Goku, but for me I'm just getting enjoyment out of how this puzzle is constructed. You have these pieces that seem maybe not the most varied and interesting on the surface when we're looking at how power matters, but how can you put it together in a way that goes beyond the surface of this relatively rigid power structure? Surprisingly good.
I think Super's production situation kinda prevented the longer, more intricate stories, so hopefully that changes when it returns with a good production. The Future Trunks arc felt like an attempt at that, though the results were mixed.
Broly movie fucking ruined my tolerance for blagh DBS animation.

I can't go back.

They better bring some more sakuga to the table this time.
Animation quality shouldn't be an issue this time. Good designs, good production. Just don't expect movie quality animation every episode or anything.
I would say that only holds true until the fight with Frieza. Than it becomes extremely linear and over stays it’s welcome. Kai fixes some of those issues, but the best parts of Namek is before Goku’s arrival.
It's better in Kai and the manga, but yeah, it goes down hill in the Goku vs Freeza fight.




Anyways, I'm kinda curious about a dumb idea I had, got a poll.
 
Dec 10, 2017
4,388

I think Super's production situation kinda prevented the longer, more intricate stories, so hopefully that changes when it returns with a good production. The Future Trunks arc felt like an attempt at that, though the results were mixed.

Animation quality shouldn't be an issue this time. Good designs, good production. Just don't expect movie quality animation every episode or anything.

It's better in Kai and the manga, but yeah, it goes down hill in the Goku vs Freeza fight.




Anyways, I'm kinda curious about a dumb idea I had, got a poll.
I don’t think Super’s production prevented longer, more intricate stories. It’s more that the story didn’t need to be long or that intricate. In fact, Namek was the only story arc like that, the rest was simple and linear.

That said, while the Future Trunks Saga wasn’t really long, there was far more going on with the characters, even if the story was a straightforward ‘save the future. You had Present Zamasu falling into darkness, Gowasu trying to steer Zamasu towards the right path and everything going wrong, Beerus and Whis trying to figure out what Black is, Trunks’ PTSD, Future Mai trying to keep everyone in the future alive, Vegeta showing how much he charged since the Android/Cell Saga, and Black’s interesting relationship with Goku. It’s an arc driven heavily by it’s characters more than the overall narrative.

The same holds true with the Universal Survival Saga. The overall plot is simple, but you got a lot of smaller stories and character moments like Jiren’s trust issues, Toppo giving up on justice, Rib’s shallow version of love, Cali and Kale’s relationship, Hit willing to sacrifice himself to save his universe, U9’s grudge against U7 that eventually got them erased, etc.

I highly doubt we will ever get an arc like Namek since the stories are more to the point. What they will probably keep doing is having character drive be the main focus.
 
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ArchedThunder

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,773
Here's a question for people who follow English dubs and Funimation closely, who do you guys think Funi should recast as Broly when they inevitably dump Vic?
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,183
krillin < gohan < dodoria < zarbon < vegeta < 2nd form zarbon < guldo < zenkai boost vegeta < recoome < jeice < burter < ginyu < goku < ginyu in goku's body after trading bodies where goku is now ginyu with a giant gaping wound < 1st form freeza < 2nd form freeza < piccolo < pissed off gohan after krillin gets impaled < 3rd form freeza < another zenkai boost vegeta < final form freeza < goku zenkai boost < 5% freeza < 20x kaioken goku < 50% freeza < 100% freeza < super saiyan goku

yeah it's a pretty fun journey :)
I think the most boring part about it is that Namek basically looks the same everywhere. It made me forget there's some great stuff that goes on in the arc. Also makes it harder for me to recall the events in order like you can lol.


I think Super's production situation kinda prevented the longer, more intricate stories, so hopefully that changes when it returns with a good production. The Future Trunks arc felt like an attempt at that, though the results were mixed.
Some of the arcs in Super just don't seem fit for that. BoG is probably the most starightforward arc and I'm not sure how they would expand it. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with that though. I think it'd probably be be better suited for maybe a shorter episode run than it had.

I'm not sure if I'd say Black arc was a better attempt at that, or the US arc. US arc definitely had more overall characters and fights involved but the whole tournament format makes it feel straightforward to me in a way anyway. Hard for me to judge in the same way as a non tournament arc.

Also when I say I like the last half of Toyo's black arc better, it's because of what I explained in my previous post. Even though I don't like Mastered SSB nearly as much as KKSSB, and in concept I like Zamasu becoming the universe over Zamasu clones, I just like more how he put together the peices he had to reach the climax if that makes sense.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,183
I don’t think Super’s production prevented longer, more intricate stories. It’s more that the story didn’t need to be long or that intricate. In fact, Namek was the only story arc like that, the rest was simple and linear.

That said, while the Future Trunks Saga wasn’t really long, there was far more going on with the characters, even if the story was a straightforward ‘save the future. You had Present Zamasu falling into darkness, Gowasu trying to steer Zamasu towards the right path and everything going wrong, Beerus and Whis trying to figure out what Black is, Trunks’ PTSD, Future Mai trying to keep everyone in the future alive, Vegeta showing how much he charged since the Android/Cell Saga, and Black’s interesting relationship with Goku. It’s an arc driven heavily by it’s characters more than the overall narrative.

The same holds true with the Universal Survival Saga. The overall plot is simple, but you got a lot of smaller stories and character moments like Jiren’s trust issues, Toppo giving up on justice, Rib’s shallow version of love, Cali and Kale’s relationship, Hit willing to sacrifice himself to save his universe, U9’s grudge against U7 that eventually got them erased, etc.

I highly doubt we will ever get an arc like Namek since the stories are more to the point. What they will probably keep doing is having character drive be the main focus.
It's interesting that Dragon Ball seems to have only gotten more character focused as it went on. For some reason I expected og Dragon Ball to not have less of it then Z, but my impression from just reading it is that it does actually have less character development than Z.

And character stuff is good, I don't think Super has a lack of that. But I think Z has the edge when it comes to more varied scenarios (linear or not), and there are more environments that are visited/relevant throughout the arcs (barring Frieza Saga) that add to this feeling.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,820
I heard a clip of dub Caulifla the other day for the first time and was actually SHOOK at how good she sounded lol

Also really enjoyed Schemmels performance in Broly even though I remember disliking the dub of RoF and being put off by it
 
Dec 10, 2017
4,388
It's interesting that Dragon Ball seems to have only gotten more character focused as it went on. For some reason I expected og Dragon Ball to not have less of it then Z, but my impression from just reading it is that it does actually have less character development than Z.

And character stuff is good, I don't think Super has a lack of that. But I think Z has the edge when it comes to more varied scenarios (linear or not), and there are more environments that are visited/relevant throughout the arcs (barring Frieza Saga) that add to this feeling.

Not so sure. Saiyan Saga was mostly different wastelands and the Cell Saga had the same problem. Buu Saga had the most environments. You have people fighting in a tournament on an island, a spaceship, a dark planet, wasteland, Hypobolic Time Chamber, Buu’s body, and the World of the Kais.

Battle of Gods had King Kai’s planet, a boat, in the water, on an island, and space.

Future Trunks Saga had ruined West City, Present West City, wasteland, a Supreme Kai’s planet, and a forest area.

Universal Survival Saga had the Zeno expo, a wasteland, on top of a building, a spaceship, in a Japanese town, and Baba’s Palace. We also got glimps of other universes.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,183
Not so sure. Saiyan Saga was mostly different wastelands and the Cell Saga had the same problem. Buu Saga had the most environments. You have people fighting in a tournament on an island, a spaceship, a dark planet, wasteland, Hypobolic Time Chamber, Buu’s body, and the World of the Kais.

Battle of Gods had King Kai’s planet, a boat, in the water, on an island, and space.

Future Trunks Saga had ruined West City, Present West City, wasteland, a Supreme Kai’s planet, and a forest area.

Universal Survival Saga had the Zeno expo, a wasteland, on top of a building, a spaceship, in a Japanese town, and Baba’s Palace. We also got glimps of other universes.
Overall. I know Saiyan Saga is a pretty small one. Not that I think think there's anything wrong with that though in the contect of everything else. Glimpses we get for places are cool but I don't count that in terms of where the scenarios are taking the immediate plot. Those are shown more for just worldbuilding purposes. Also there's some variety in the different wastelands they go to, you also got Cell Saga, Kami's tower, hyperbolic time chamber, mountainside/road. that city, cell games. It's also helped by the fact that there's a lot more variety when it comes to the characters involved in scenarios. It's not only the environemnt thing, it just helps it.
 
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Dec 10, 2017
4,388
Overall. I know Saiyan Saga is a pretty small one. Not that I think think there's anything wrong with that though in the contect of everything else. Glimpses we get for places are cool but I don't count that in terms of where the scenarios are taking the immediate plot. Those are shown more for just worldbuilding purposes. Also there's some variety in the different wastelands they go to, you also got Cell Saga, Kami's tower, hyperbolic time chamber, mountainside/road. that city, cell games. It's also helped by the fact that there's a lot more variety when it comes to the characters involved in scenarios. It's not only the environemnt thing, it just helps it.
Most of that can said about the Cell Saga. Especially when the city was turned into a wasteland almost as soon as the fighting started.

And the character scenarios in the Cell Saga were people being moronic or in some cases, OOC.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,183
He does it again on Fat Buu when he's trapped in Super Buu.

It just comes in conveniently AT wants him to learn the situation quick.
Oh WOW, interesting. That's quite the revelation. Forever I've heard that moment talked abuot as if that was the only time he did it. (Unless that's maybe an anime only moment?)

Honestly I like it tbh. I need my boy Goku to have that context. Bring it back in Super+!
 
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