Dragon Ball Super |OT6| The waiting game

Demon Eyes

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,514
I can’t prefer the U6 Saiyans in the manga when Kale is legit just a female Broly for most of her screentime and doesn’t get screentime to be much else and Caulifla is basically Goten, fusion fodder.
 

Amnesty

Member
Nov 7, 2017
846
I don't think the U6 Namekians absorbed their entire race. It was just a bunch of volunteers or something like that.
 

brinstar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,973
the only problem now with oob is... dragon ball super.

back then the series ending with some kid appearing as a reincarnation of majin boo, the most powerful villain in all of dragon ball, was pretty cool.

now they're gonna try and make him feel like a big deal after we've seen hit, zamasu, jiren and broly.

bruh
Well he has the power of boo and he's a kid. So I assume he can only go up from there. I don't think they're ever gonna use him though. Toei swerved away from him as fast as they could in GT. He did show up in the manga so maybe Toyotoro can remind Toriyama who he is lmao
 

Morlas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,395
the manga ruined the best thing about Caulifla and Kale, their relationship. so it definitely is way worse.
 

Kokonoe

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,417
I feel like manga did nearly everything better from a storytelling and characterization standpoint. Kale is the silent badass, Caulifla keeps her personality but is far less annoying which made me appreciate her more. Jiren doesn't have the laughable backstory and doesn't have a weird villainous moment and actually has some personality. I also appreciate Kale isn't merely just tied to Caulifla, she is self sufficient and is her own character whereas in the anime she really is nothing without Caulifla.

Toyotaro also had the mind to not give Roshi rape like scenes and focused on him being cool without the perverted nonsense which I'll always appreciate.
 

Morlas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,395
manga Kale has like barely any personality, and manga Caulifla lacks the softer side to her personality that endeared me to the anime version, so both were a complete downgrade
 

Woozies

Member
Nov 1, 2017
11,432
Kale is woefully generic in the manga And Caulifla is insufferable.

Their dynamic works so well because they are at the very least friends. The manga makes that concept hard to believe.

Cause Caulifla lacks her personal touch in the manga and Kale is tied to her for a nebulous debt.


That's fundamentally different from how the anime plays it. Anime Caulifla believes in Kale just as much as she believes in herself.

They're Kamina and Simon
 

Morlas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,395
Also I don't really care what anyone says, Jiren snapping and attacking the audience was actually one of his best character moments because it showed that he was actually traumatized and not just a sad loner.
 

Kokonoe

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,417
In the Super anime Roshi does the following things.

His training is essentially sexual assault on Puar cause xD assault is funny!

This really creepy scene in the tournament that has rapey vibes. "He'll make me undesirable as a wife!"

Then this scene where he literally kidnaps a girl then later on is trying to sexually assault her. Earlier on he's all near her breasts spitting talking about how soft and bouncy they are.

In the manga? None of this. Just Master Roshi teaching Goku a technique as one final lesson which was done really well. Sure people in this particular thread do not care for the manga (in my community I run people love it), but Roshi was clearly done better in the manga and no one will tell me otherwise. These scenes are appalling.
 

alexi52

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,694
I kind of like manga Kale more than her anime counterpart, mainly because I found her annoying in the anime, I also prefer how Gohan was done in the manga and ................... yeah I guess that's it
 

Amnesty

Member
Nov 7, 2017
846
It’s not really about consensus, it’s just that saying things like Jiren (or others like Kale and Caulifla) has more personality in the manga or that his lashing out made no sense are just facile interpretations because it’s a view that can only be achieved by ignoring what was depicted in the anime. It’s the rhetoric of pretending the anime depictions didn’t do something that the manga did, but when a analysis is done it’s not difficult to see that there is just -less- in the manga.
 

Kokonoe

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,417
It’s not really about consensus, it’s just that saying things like Jiren (or others like Kale and Caulifla) has more personality in the manga or that his lashing out made no sense are just facile interpretations because it’s a view that can only be achieved by ignoring what was depicted in the anime. It’s the rhetoric of pretending the anime depictions didn’t do something that the manga did, but when a analysis is done it’s not difficult to see that there is just -less- in the manga.
The thing I've noticed from your posts in particular is you try to articulate in a elaborate manner how someone is factually incorrect in their view but in actuality they are no righter or wrong than you.

Like when it gets to this point there is no sense in discussion or viewing others interpretations. If I had been the one in this particular time frame wording my posts in the manner you are doing I'm sure you and others wouldn't care for that.

And honestly? I think the echo chamber in this very thread is quite the issue and puts people off, especially the hostility. It's what use to drive my own hostility several months back when I use to post in these topics but I have no intention of fighting fire with fire ever again.

I tried to give this community another shot but it's as others have said in the Toonami thread, this place is insular. So on that regard I'll take my leave and find a different place on this site where discussing this series doesn't dip into highschool territory.
 

Amnesty

Member
Nov 7, 2017
846
The thing I've noticed from your posts in particular is you try to articulate in a elaborate manner how someone is factually incorrect in their view but in actuality they are no righter or wrong than you.

Like when it gets to this point there is no sense in discussion or viewing others interpretations. If I had been the one in this particular time frame wording my posts in the manner you are doing I'm sure you and others wouldn't care for that.

And honestly? I think the echo chamber in this very thread is quite the issue and puts people off, especially the hostility. It's what use to drive my own hostility several months back when I use to post in these topics but I have no intention of fighting fire with fire ever again.

I tried to give this community another shot but it's as others have said in the Toonami thread, this place is insular. So on that regard I'll take my leave and find a different place on this site where discussing this series doesn't dip into highschool territory.
There are interpretations that are attentive to the facts of what is depicted on screen or page. So when discussing, for example, Jiren's moment of rage/lashing out, we can say it is false that there is no information present in his depiction prior to that moment that allows for a lead in. To say that it doesn't make sense, or came out of nowhere, is untrue. Likewise, to say or imply that Jiren has no personality in the anime is also obviously untrue, since it is quite impossible for someone to have no personality.

Obviously people should be able to discuss their interpretation, but when they're relying on what isn't actually seen in the show and more on projection and rhetoric, then what can anybody respond to really?

I don't really see any hostility in this thread though.
 

BizzyBum

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,059
New York
What is Jiren's backstory in the manga? It can't be worse than how utterly generic and awful it was in the anime. Like, it was so bad they shouldn't have even said anything at all.
 

DiipuSurotu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,203
France
I think the highlight of ToP to me was the Namekians themselves just as a concept. Like they fused with literally their whole race? That's something as a fan you'd dream up of as a kid as "what ifs" but here it actually happened. Very cool concept.
The fan manga Dragon Ball Multiverse actually did it before DB Super.
 
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ArchedThunder

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,361
What is Jiren's backstory in the manga? It can't be worse than how utterly generic and awful it was in the anime. Like, it was so bad they shouldn't have even said anything at all.
Pretty much the same, but they said the person who killed his master was a demon. I can't remember if he killed his parents too or not, but I think it was just his master. EDIT: Yeah, it was just his master that was killed, so Jiren has a less tragic backstory.
I don't think his backstory is bad, the problem is that they just threw it in in a place were it didn't work and weren't able to give it the focus it needed. I think they could do a good TV special to turn his backstory into something people actually care about.
 

Demon Eyes

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,514
His backstory was meh. But as far as the anime went it was only meant to show why he was a dick. It served its purpose but it def was not a good spot to show it. An OVA probs would handle it better
 

Voltt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,391
They should’ve shown his backstory earlier. It’s a bit stock, which would’ve been fine if they had been upfront about it, but they kept hinting like there was some big earth shattering secret in it, which there obviously wasn’t.
 
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ArchedThunder

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,361
They should’ve shown his backstory earlier. It’s a bit stock, which would’ve been fine if they had been upfront about it, but they kept hinting like there was some big earth shattering secret in it, which there obviously wasn’t.
At the very least if they do an arc where the villain is the demon/villain from his origin story they can go back and do a TV special to flesh it out to make it something people care about.
 

BizzyBum

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,059
New York
I just remembered, Beerus was the one to give Frieza the go ahead to destroy Planet Vegeta in the first place, so Goku and Vegeta don't know about this, right? I would assume that would not go over well with them if they found out, especially Vegeta.
 
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ArchedThunder

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,361
I just remembered, Beerus was the one to give Frieza the go ahead to destroy Planet Vegeta in the first place, so Goku and Vegeta don't know about this, right? I would assume that would not go over well with them if they found out, especially Vegeta.
The whole destruction of Planet Vegeta thing is a bit muddled. It seems like Freeza did it of his own volition out of his fear of the Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan God legends, but I guess Beerus had previously mentioned destroying the planet to him or something.
 

icyflamez96

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,558
The whole destruction of Planet Vegeta thing is a bit muddled. It seems like Freeza did it of his own volition out of his fear of the Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan God legends, but I guess Beerus had previously mentioned destroying the planet to him or something.
I thought it was Frieza wanted to but he had to get permission from Beerus to actually do it
 

Voltt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,391
In Z, it’s because he’s afraid of the Super Saiyan, but it’s because Beerus told him to in Battle of Gods. But then it’s him being afraid of the Super Saiyan and the Super Saiyan God in Minus, only for Resurrection ‘F’ to make it because of Beerus again. Broly defaulted back to the Minus explanation.

It feels like Toriyama can’t quite make up his mind.
 

Corky

Alt account
Banned
Dec 5, 2018
2,479
The Beerus thing should be him just causally saying 'I know you hate those saiyans I wouldn't care if you destroyed them but don't expect me to do it for you'. Something like that. Doesn't have to be an order or Freeza asking for permission.
 

Mory Dunz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,696
The english dub is making the lesbian subtext with Caulifla and Kale even more blatant so far
i watched the clip where she went crazy.

the "goku, the ____" was a little goofy, but 10x better than her repeating son goku relentlessly in the JP version.
So I actually liked the change.