So if it's presented he has a "flaw" a lot Ppl in here gonna take it back, take it on the chin and eat a wing of crow? Cuz ain't we just jumping the gun
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Dragon Ball Super |OT6| The waiting game
- Thread starter ArchedThunder
- Start date
Cool's dependent upon the manga used and that's not entirely based on the beholder, that's based on the characters in the series a lot of the time, in this case that's an example of it. In DB people consider Great Saiyaman to be "uncool" while characters like Trunks are "cool." There's a reason that Great Saiyaman is considered lame to the Z Senshi. Just look at his appearance and how he acts. That in itself just gives you an idea of who a cool character would be. Merus is identified as being the "cool" one of the space patrol given how he's being presented. For example, the entire line about Merus being the only one to have a custom spacesuit was entirely there to show how Merus was a "cool" character with personalized stuff. Otherwise why put it in there? It didn't serve any purpose besides saying he has personalized things others can't get. You then get the multiple panels dedicated to having Goku and Vegeta surprised and amazed he can do these things while they couldn't, not once or twice but every single time.
It's the whole "one of one" thing. He's always doing/has/appearing to be better and exclusive compared to others.
A Mary Sue is not a character who started off as a prodigy, at all. A Mary Sue is a character without any flaws, a seemingly "perfect character" to a degree. For example, in the Naruto databooks everyone had stats.
Naruto, these were his stats (out of 5) in the first 2 databooks.
If Naruto was a Mary Sue he'd excel in all areas and have 0 flaws. That's not counting how brash he is, the fact he think he can do everything and so on and so forth. From a character standpoint, he's incredibly flawed which has been one of people's biggest knocks on him. Sasuke isn't even a Mary Sue because while he can fight, from a character perspective the guy's got numerous flaws. Kakashi even with all of his greatness had a chakra problem for most of the series.
In DB's case, Goku's still a different story compared to Merus because even though he has exclusive techniques that you've named, Goku's always perceived as being the innocent, naive, non-intellectual genius, type of character. If he had stats then he'd do amazing in all of the fighting stats but when it comes to stuff like base intelligence, he wouldn't be up to a Piccolo-like level. In Super the parts with him having a problem having a regular job, Chichi yelling at him over stuff, the parts with him shopping and not knowing what food is best, those are what makes him not a Mary Sue because that shows that yeah, he can fight but he's a flaw character in that most things not related to fighting and being friends, he doesn't know. This applies to Goku throughout each series because that's not his forte.
You mentioning his positives doesn't take away from his negatives. In the Buu Saga for instance, the fact he held back was there because while he wanted the heroes of Earth to do it, the guy's life was on a leash at that point so anything he did could have strained his time even further. He just excels so well in other areas that it makes some people not notice his flaws even though his flaws are highlighted a lot in the series. Goku knowing the ROSAT, the fusion dance and whatnot doesn't take away from the fact that he's not an intellectual genius who has a plan for everything, can get himself out of every situation and the fact that he doesn't know basic stuff. Vegeta for example, he's the one who came up with the plan to end Buu with the reviving of the dead characters and the Spirit Bomb. Had Goku been a Mary Sue he would have been the one to create that plan and hell, had Goku been a Mary Sue it might not have gotten to that point.
Basically, Goku's a flawed character. When it comes to fighting? He's got it but when it comes to everything else? Nah, he's not a Mary Sue.
Merus on the other hand, what flaws does this guy have? Since the latest chapter came out not 1 person has identified a flaw of his. He's super fast, super strong apparently, he's got plans on plans on plans so he's really smart, he's done so many feats, he's got personalized things others don't have, what's his character flaw?
I get what you're saying but I disagree. From a personality standpoint and taking into account his entire character, Goku isn't a Mary Sue. Merus as presented so far, is.
Lots of hate with this arc, I can understand some of the complaints, but I don't think it's such a big deal. This is the first arc that has 3 plot points going on at the same time since Buu and has some nice little touches to the world building. I like how Universe 7 still isn't fully explored too. Moro is also the most interesting antagonist since Black. Hoping Frieza makes an appearance soon.
More than anything, I think people just want the character to become engaging, to feel more than a plot device. Or at least I do. I'm honestly mostly indifferent towards him, but even I had to laugh at the reveal that he knows all about Ultra Instinct.
Yeah more than a Mary Sue I think he's just a boring character but that's probably all on Toyo (horrific flashbacks to the manga TOP characters)
Being a prodigy isn't the definition of a Mary Sue. Goku had clear flaws even in Chapter 1 that weren't superficial. Namely, he was naive to the point of being easily tricked and manipulated, his tail could be grabbed that sucked all his strength even in his Great Ape form (which was how Yamcha disabled him), and while powerful, he was still nearly killed by Pilaf. That and while Goku learned the Kamehameha quickly, his Kamehameha could barely destroy a car, while Roshi's nuked a mountain and later shown, blowing up the freaking moon. He was also a distance third of being the strongest with him being unable to even hurt the Ox King and being laughably outpaced by Roshi.
It's a bit more complex than that. Like Bra from Multiverse is a Sue despite being a very flawed character. Problem is that her flaws are what we called superficial. Namely, they don't carry negative consequences for her. She's an arrogant, prideful, hothead, but everyone still kiss her ass, talked about how great she is, and she's almost never punished for her bad behavior. Even in the current arc, her flaws are mostly blamed on Vegito and they treat what she's doing as lashing out and being manipulated. While true, this is annoying since Present Trunks was born from a still evil Vegeta and he's way more leveled headed than Bra who had the support of the entire Son Family and her own family which includes Bulma. So blaming everything on Vegito comes off as throwing him under the bus.
Meerus' bigger problem, however, is he's boring. He doesn't have a personality outside of being awesome. He's like Whis if you suck all his personality, but leave the power set intact.
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Yeah, I'd give it to this arc that is more "fleshed out" than the norm for modern DB. Sadly, that's the only thing going for it imo.
Also, interestingly, the opinion on this arc is much better outside of era. I've seen people who hated the ToP and Broly passionately praising this arc, which is baffling to me, but to each their own. :p
Goddamnit.
Did he at least invent something amazing like Bulma has?
🤔 actually idk
What exactly is he a scholar of I wasn't paying attention during the future trunks stuff what was his conference about.
I know In other media he like teaches Ki or something
regardless he's still powerful he'll probably fight again later
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If it's any consolation we are closer to the announcement of Season 2 every day, but that's only because we experience time linearly...
I'm assuming you didn't watch the show or read the manga based on these posts. He was one of the top fighters in the final arc of season 1, he wasn't in Broly and now he's about to fight again in the manga.
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I just tell my self that it's better this way because we don't have to worry about staff being thin.
It's easier to sleep that way... :(
Like I said, did watch the show but haven't read the manga. I know where he was at the end of Super. Was curious what he has been upto in the manga nowadays.
I remember a line he said about wanting to achieve another level/power when he fought Goku as a test pre-tournament. They did fuck all with that in the tournament itself. So I was wondering if they actually did something with that or not.
That was dope how we already knew all this information about everything that was going on behind the scenes, and then apparently every plan changed internally. Somehow the insiders had no idea, even though they were so plugged in!
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The manga went a somewhat different route with him, there was no long build up to his return, he didn't fighting in the exhibition, there was no big regaining Ultimate moment and he didn't spar with Goku before the tournament. The manga also doesn't treat Ultimate as a transformation, it's just his regular state. He hasn't shown up in the current manga arc yet, so the last we saw him was in the ToP.
Basically, nothing has changed since the end of season 1 of the anime.
Nah, they're definitely assembling him and the team.
You know how much I would like that. Maybe they get to come along this time... maybe.
If any fans have the right to complain it's Goten and Trunks fans.
Preach it kaga. Where did we go wrong. How we fall behind so far
Lets not go there manga Gohan is disgustingly busted to the point of stupidity and Toyo is gonna have to pretend that didn't happen because its dumb
wild that they suggested getting Tenshinhan and Krillin for help and not the spare fused Super Saiyan 3 they have lol
And before anybody tries to refute this with any type of bs that I knows is coming cuz it's already been done
1. no you not bout to tell me krillin is anywhere near they level cuz he damn sure wasn't during buu and he gave up fighting
2.Reckless kids? Bout as reckless as gloating in the middle of a tournament aye?
There's really no excuse when Gohan's been on the battlefield since age 5.
And if somebody goes well gohan was trained....well it ain't like they haven't asked!! Particularly one wanted to go to whis!!!!!
Lmao! He trashed zenitsu too but you forgot that huh boar boy
easily
Most definitely. People like to say all these other characters were 'ruined' or treated poorly but at least most of the OG cast got to do things in Super. Goten and Trunks did not.
The reckless excuse was flimsy too but I was willing to buy it because ultimately I think the creators just didn't want to have almost the entire U7 team visually be super saiyans (Not that Krillin & Tenshinhan accomplished much lol) but in an arc like this and RoF where Goku and Vegeta aren't available this is the perfect time to write Gotenks a fight.
I'd like to see Goten and Trunks be relevant on their own without the fusion crutch, actually.
I love gotenks I LOVE gotenks
but
they need development on their own now. They old enough and strong enough. Let gotenks rest than bring him back as a trump card later with a new form or something instead of everybody expecting it Everytime they on screen
but
they need development on their own now. They old enough and strong enough. Let gotenks rest than bring him back as a trump card later with a new form or something instead of everybody expecting it Everytime they on screen
If they show them in this arc it would be a great time for them to have aged up designs all I'm saying