Dragon Ball Super |OT6| The waiting game

HeroR

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Dec 10, 2017
5,667
I really like Zamasu he is cool but i have trouble comparing him to the DBZ main villains because his arc lacks something, resolution was too rushed and time travel gimmick annoying he feels more like a more developed Movie villain than the long arc we were used to.
Opposite for me. Black and Zamasu are easily the best developed characters that makes the Z villain look like the shallow movie characters. The same with the arc itself despite being on the short side. Which is fine since the Cell and Buu Saga were bloated and was only kept going by the characters stupidity. Then again, my favorite arcs in Dragon Ball tend to be the shorter ones like the King Piccolo Saga and the 21 and 22nd Touruments. The only long Dragon Ball arc I loved is the Namek Saga, and that dragged like hell once the Frieza fight started.

The USS was alright, but had too many issues to be my favorite arc.
 

Vito

formerly Undead Fantasy
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Oct 25, 2017
5,837
I really like Zamasu he is cool but i have trouble comparing him to the DBZ main villains because his arc lacks something, resolution was too rushed and time travel gimmick annoying he feels more like a more developed Movie villain than the long arc we were used to.
His arc lacks something alright... Bloat.

Zamasu dances around the Z villains.
 

HeroR

Member
Dec 10, 2017
5,667
His arc lacks something alright... Bloat.

Zamasu dances around the Z villains.
I am not sure I would put him over Namek Saga Frieza. Most because of how integrated Frieza is in the entire Dragon Ball lore. One thing Black does have over Frieza is that he didn't have the standard Z villain breakdown.

That said, I will agree that the Future Trunks Saga had an abrupt ending. It needed at least another episode to digest everything that happened, especially given the large scale tragedy. It's like the arc ended fast on purpose so people don't fully realized just how fucked up things were.

Most Z villains besides Freeza are extremely one note. Really not hard to top them tbh
To be fair, Kid Buu is probably the best one-note villain simple because he was more of a force of nature than another opponent. Unlike every villain before and even after him, he had no pride to take advantage of, didn't care about being the strongest in the universe, didn't care about ruling anything, didn't care about having a good fight, he just wanted to kill until there was nothing left. He was a true Lovecraft monster.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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For an arc that was maybe 20 episodes it sure did drag. How long did they spend trying to figure out who Goku Black was? Too many that's what
 

Vito

formerly Undead Fantasy
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Oct 25, 2017
5,837
I am not sure I would put him over Namek Saga Frieza. Most because of how integrated Frieza is in the entire Dragon Ball lore. One thing Black does have over Frieza is that he didn't have the standard Z villain breakdown.

That said, I will agree that the Future Trunks Saga had an abrupt ending. It needed at least another episode to digest everything that happened, especially given the large scale tragedy. It's like the arc ended fast on purpose so people don't fully realized just how fucked up things were.



To be fair, Kid Buu is probably the best one-note villain simple because he was more of a force of nature than another opponent. Unlike every villain before and even after him, he had no pride to take advantage of, didn't care about being the strongest in the universe, didn't care about ruling anything, didn't care about having a good fight, he just wanted to kill until there was nothing left. He was a true Lovecraft monster.
I will agree the arc needed one more episode.

Extend Vegetto vs Zamasu and end the episode with the former defusing. E67 would be a weakened Goku, Vegeta and Trunks barely fighting off Zamasu (Shin and Gowasu should help them fight) and then have an extended Genki Sword Trunks fight scene. E68 would then be the normal E67.
 

HeroR

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Dec 10, 2017
5,667
For an arc that was maybe 20 episodes it sure did drag. How long did they spend trying to figure out who Goku Black was? Too many that's what
Not sure how it was too many given that the characters had no way of knowing that Zamasu would become obsessed enough to actually steal Goku's body and abandoned his godly form. That and the Zamasu they saw in the future was Future Zamasu instead of a time traveling Present Zamasu.
 

HeroR

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Dec 10, 2017
5,667
I will agree the arc needed one more episode.

Extend Vegetto vs Zamasu and end the episode with the former defusing. E67 would be a weakened Goku, Vegeta and Trunks barely fighting off Zamasu (Shin and Gowasu should help them fight) and then have an extended Genki Sword Trunks fight scene. E68 would then be the normal E67.
I can't agree with this since I like Merged Zamasu finally getting off his ego trip and just outright trying to kill Goku and Vegeta the moment they defused and him just losing his patient with Trunks and tried to cut him to ham. Them lasting for a long for a period of time would have been Manga Merged Zamasu level of stupid. The length of the Spirit Sword was also the right length for me.

What they should have done is make the fight longer between Zamasu and Vegito as you mentioned, and used the time during the fight to explain where the Spirit Bomb came from besides plot. Then have a full wrap up episode where the character reflect on what happened besides Gowasu. Like I Episode 66 and of 67 is Zamasu vs Vegito with the Spirit Bomb explained and Zamasu getting his bodiless form. Then 68 would be summoned Zeno and all about the aftermath.
 

Vito

formerly Undead Fantasy
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Oct 25, 2017
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I can't agree with this since I like Merged Zamasu finally getting off his ego trip and just outright trying to kill Goku and Vegeta the moment they defused and him just losing his patient with Trunks and tried to cut him to ham. Them lasting for a long for a period of time would have been Manga Merged Zamasu level of stupid. The length of the Spirit Sword was also the right length for me.

What they should have done is make the fight longer between Zamasu and Vegito as you mentioned, and used the time during the fight to explain where the Spirit Bomb came from besides plot. Then have a full wrap up episode where the character reflect on what happened besides Gowasu. Like I Episode 66 and of 67 is Zamasu vs Vegito with the Spirit Bomb explained and Zamasu getting his bodiless form. Then 68 would be summoned Zeno and all about the aftermath.
So 67 will still be Vegetto vs Zamasu? How would you end 66 then?

If 68 still had Infinite Zamasu then it would be kinda rad to have him appear on U6 and see Cabba's reaction to it. Demostrate how dire the situation was.
 

icyflamez96

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Oct 26, 2017
6,361
my main problem with the black arc is the lack of scenario variety when compared to the big z arcs. Felt more straightforward/static than I'd like.
 

HeroR

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Dec 10, 2017
5,667
So 67 will still be Vegetto vs Zamasu? How would you end 66 then?

If 68 still had Infinite Zamasu then it would be kinda rad to have him appear on U6 and see Cabba's reaction to it. Demostrate how dire the situation was.
I 66 will be the same, except the fight with Vegito will take up the rest of the episode, while we get some foreshadowing about the Spirit Bomb. Then 67 will be the defusing, Trunks getting the Spirit Sword, and Infinite Zamasu happening with greater detail about he he destroy the multiverse. Think Frieza blowing up the Earth in the Resurrection 'F' retelling. Then 68 will be Future Zeno and the wrap up.
 

HeroR

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Dec 10, 2017
5,667
So what you're saying is that Moro is the best arc of Super.
The Future Trunks Saga still have more location than Namek. And even then, most Dragon Ball arcs take place in wastelands. At least the Future Trunks Saga was in a city, something we rarely see.

But one thing the Moro stuff has for it is its different locations after they got off Namek. Too bad it feels like needless filler.
 

Vito

formerly Undead Fantasy
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Oct 25, 2017
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I 66 will be the same, except the fight with Vegito will take up the rest of the episode, while we get some foreshadowing about the Spirit Bomb. Then 67 will be the defusing, Trunks getting the Spirit Sword, and Infinite Zamasu happening with greater detail about he he destroy the multiverse. Think Frieza blowing up the Earth in the Resurrection 'F' retelling. Then 68 will be Future Zeno and the wrap up.
Yes but where would it cut for 66?

Zamasu getting bigger? Vegetto charging the Final Kamehameha?
 
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ArchedThunder

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
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Oct 25, 2017
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The Future Trunks Saga still have more location than Namek. And even then, most Dragon Ball arcs take place in wastelands. At least the Future Trunks Saga was in a city, something we rarely see.

But one thing the Moro stuff has for it is its different locations after they got off Namek. Too bad it feels like needless filler.
The fact that Vegeta is learning new stuff, Goku is working on UI and the whole universe is getting fucked up makes if feel decidedly non-filler to me.
The story is too big and has too much world building at this point for me to say it feels like filler anymore.
It definitely started off feeling like filler, but it's since pivoted.
 
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Fj0823

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Oct 25, 2017
8,684
Costa Rica
The fact that Vegeta is learning new stuff, Goku is working on UI and the whole universe is getting fucked up makes if feel decidedly non-filler to me.
The story is too big and has too much world building at this point for me to say it feels like filler anymore.
It definitely started off feeling like filler, but it's since pivoted.
Yep, the Moro arc is too important not to adapt
 

HeroR

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Dec 10, 2017
5,667
The fact that Vegeta is learning new stuff, Goku is working on UI and the whole universe is getting fucked up makes if feel decidedly non-filler to me.
The story is too big and has too much world building at this point for me to say it feels like filler anymore.
It definitely started off feeling like filler, but it's since pivoted.
It feels like filler since they left Namek since at least three chapters could have been one and the advance squad plot was completely unneeded since the heroes lost the same way they always do in this arc.
 
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ArchedThunder

ArchedThunder

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Oct 25, 2017
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I bet this leads to a squad being sent to Yardrat and they get killed by Vegeta while he tests out some new shit on them.
It feels like filler since they left Namek since at least three chapters could have been one and the advance squad plot was completely unneeded since the heroes lost the same way they always do in this arc.
Since they left Namek is when a lot of the major world building started and that's when the story's scope expanded from one planet to the whole universe.
Some of the stuff in the last 3 chapters could have been condensed, some of it could have been expanded, but if it had all be one chapter I think it would have felt very rushed.
The group coming to Earth served the purpose of keeping Moro off of Earth for 2 months so everybody could get ready. I would have preferred if it ended with the prisoners being forced to retreat because they were losing, but at least now Gohan, Piccolo, Krillin and Jaco have first hand experience with Moro's ability which may or may not help them in their preparations.
 

HeroR

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Dec 10, 2017
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I bet this leads to a squad being sent to Yardrat and they get killed by Vegeta while he tests out some new shit on them.

Since they left Namek is when a lot of the major world building started and that's when the story's scope expanded from one planet to the whole universe.
Some of the stuff in the last 3 chapters could have been condensed, some of it could have been expanded, but if it had all be one chapter I think it would have felt very rushed.
The group coming to Earth served the purpose of keeping Moro off of Earth for 2 months so everybody could get ready. I would have preferred if it ended with the prisoners being forced to retreat because they were losing, but at least now Gohan, Piccolo, Krillin and Jaco have first hand experience with Moro's ability which may or may not help them in their preparations.

Except the planets we have seen have the same quality as the worlds we saw in GT and despite Moro eating worlds, Toyo has done nothing to make me give a damn about these people. I felt more sorry for the people getting attacked by Frieza at the end of Broly. Not to mention, both the manga and anime say that only 28 planets have intelligent life, so where are these civilizations even coming from?

And probably the most damning and annoying aspect of this arc is why the hell isn't Beerus doing his freaking job. He has someone eating planets after his ass was on the line for poor management of U7 that nearly got him and his universe erased, yet Whis didn't seem to tell that some asshole is sucking life out of his universe. Heck, not even the Supreme Kai is involved despite his former mentor and friend making an appearance to make even a comment about what is going on. For an universe threat, there is no urgent with Moro.

We didn't need two months since they had about a week, which is plenty of time with the Time Chamber used outside of Vegeta. Not to mentioned it makes Moro even more of a freaking Bond villain and the heroes losing the same way every time is just old. It's like Toyo can't even bothered to be original in that aspect.
 

HeroR

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Dec 10, 2017
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Wouldn't fit the character.

Now, a group of Zamasus from different eras would be neat if he ever comes back.
Pretty much. Trunks even called him out for being someone who only depends on himself and he killed the other gods since even shady Kais like Ro wouldn't go along with his ideas.
 
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ArchedThunder

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
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Oct 25, 2017
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Except the planets we have seen have the same quality as the worlds we saw in GT and despite Moro eating worlds, Toyo has done nothing to make me give a damn about these people. I felt more sorry for the people getting attacked by Frieza at the end of Broly. Not to mention, both the manga and anime say that only 28 planets have intelligent life, so where are these civilizations even coming from?

And probably the most damning and annoying aspect of this arc is why the hell isn't Beerus doing his freaking job. He has someone eating planets after his ass was on the line for poor management of U7 that nearly got him and his universe erased, yet Whis didn't seem to tell that some asshole is sucking life out of his universe. Heck, not even the Supreme Kai is involved despite his former mentor and friend making an appearance to make even a comment about what is going on. For an universe threat, there is no urgent with Moro.

We didn't need two months since they had about a week, which is plenty of time with the Time Chamber used outside of Vegeta. Not to mentioned it makes Moro even more of a freaking Bond villain and the heroes losing the same way every time is just old. It's like Toyo can't even bothered to be original in that aspect.
You're not so much supposed to care about the individual worlds so much as this is supposed to show how dire things are. As far as DB manga canon goes we've only seen a tiny amount of the 28 worlds and since they haven't shown a ton here it's fine, also Shin is incompetent as fuck so that number could be very wrong.

You answered yourself, Whis didn't tell him how major of a situation this is, presumably because he's seeing how Goku and Vegeta will handle it and/or seeing what Merus is doing. As for why Shin isn't involved, yeah it's weird, but we all know this dude is incompetent and it's not like he could contribute much beyond commentary.

2 months is nice since it lets everybody, including Vegeta and the people on Earth, get ready. It also works better with the Time Chamber that Goku is using since the time differential isn't as massive as the one on Earth. Ultimately Moro is letting this happen because he just wants to eat, he sees a chance to get even more energy so he's taking it. He's not really being a Bond villain, he's specifically doing this because he thinks it will benefit him in the long run. I don't find it any more annoying than Freeza or Cell not taking the millions of chances they had to kill the cast.
 

HeroR

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Dec 10, 2017
5,667
You're not so much supposed to care about the individual worlds so much as this is supposed to show how dire things are. As far as DB manga canon goes we've only seen a tiny amount of the 28 worlds and since they haven't shown a ton here it's fine, also Shin is incompetent as fuck so that number could be very wrong.

You answered yourself, Whis didn't tell him how major of a situation this is, presumably because he's seeing how Goku and Vegeta will handle it and/or seeing what Merus is doing. As for why Shin isn't involved, yeah it's weird, but we all know this dude is incompetent and it's not like he could contribute much beyond commentary.

2 months is nice since it lets everybody, including Vegeta and the people on Earth, get ready. It also works better with the Time Chamber that Goku is using since the time differential isn't as massive as the one on Earth. Ultimately Moro is letting this happen because he just wants to eat, he sees a chance to get even more energy so he's taking it. He's not really being a Bond villain, he's specifically doing this because he thinks it will benefit him in the long run. I don't find it any more annoying than Freeza or Cell not taking the millions of chances they had to kill the cast.
Except nothing feel dire since Toyo has done nothing to make me give a shit and the gods lack of care isn’t helping.

Except not even Whis or Old Kai said Shin was wrong. And why wouldn’t the person who create life not know how much intelligence life exists? Shin is lousy at his job, but nothing suggests that he’s that lousy.

That makes no sense for Whis not to tell Beerus since it’s literally Beerus’ job to handle threats like Moro, not Goku and Vegeta, and him not doing his job nearly got him erased. And again about Shin sucks is a poor excuse, especially when he can go to Beerus’ planet and asked what he’s doing.

It’s Bond villain and it was annoying when Frieza and Cell did it. It’s a stupid villain ball that Super actually moves away from outside of Beerus, and Beerus wasn’t even evil. We should be better than using cliche from over 30 years ago.

I was talking about the time chamber on Earth that gives a year in just a day. Plenty of time for the Earthlings and UI logically shouldn’t be able to beat Moro since he can drain the form unless manga UI has a no energy drain hex.
 
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ArchedThunder

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
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Oct 25, 2017
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Except nothing feel dire since Toyo has done nothing to make me give a shit and the gods lack of care isn’t helping.

Except not even Whis or Old Kai said Shin was wrong. And why wouldn’t the person who create life not know how much intelligence life exists? Shin is lousy at his job, but nothing suggests that he’s that lousy.

That makes no sense for Whis not to tell Beerus since it’s literally Beerus’ job to handle threats like Moro, not Goku and Vegeta, and him not doing his job nearly got him erased. And again about Shin sucks is a poor excuse, especially when he can go to Beerus’ planet and asked what he’s doing.

It’s Bond villain and it was annoying when Frieza and Cell did it. It’s a stupid villain ball that Super actually moves away from outside of Beerus, and Beerus wasn’t even evil. We should be better than using cliche from over 30 years ago.

I was talking about the time chamber on Earth that gives a year in just a day. Plenty of time for the Earthlings and UI logically shouldn’t be able to beat Moro since he can drain the form unless manga UI has a no energy drain hex.
I don't agree, thank you for coming to my TED Talk.
 
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ArchedThunder

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
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Oct 25, 2017
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Lol
Yeah, this tells me all I need to know, they definitely don't intend to give Yam the role of Character Designer again outside of stuff like Heroes.
 

TMaakkonen

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Oct 26, 2017
1,489
Man, Classic Yamamuro styled looked good in that footage. Sadly his style didn't age well with Super.

Also if Cell somehow returns he will get new form with no dots.

...Which will happen first, Goten focus or Cell returns?