I've been wanting to make a thread about this for a looooooong time. And now that the anime and manga for Dragon Ball Super have already covered the same arcs I think it's the perfect moment to finally compare them.
-There's going to be open spoilers for Dragon Ball Super from this point on so if you're a dub only viewer please turn around.-
Dragon Ball Super anime had it's fair share of problems but to pretend it didn´t resonate with the Dragon Ball fanbase is just wrong. DBS revived the franchise and rekindled the DB craze to the same level it had back in the 90´s.
Both anime and manga share the same core story as Akira Toriyama writes the most important story beats and character designs on some napkins and then hands them over to both the anime team, and his replacement Mangaka Toyotaro (in)famous writer of the Dragon Ball AF fanmanga. Both teams are free to fill in the blanks regarding what is inbetween point A and B in Toriyama's outline. And then Toriyama checks the final product and gives it the go ahead. (The manga's monthly "promotional piece for the anime" format meant lagging behind the main product.)
Problem is, the manga not only doubles down on many of the anime's problems but also takes away any kind of charm or memoraility from the Super Arcs. And while many fans were eager to defend Toyotaro's ideas his last few months of specially awful chapters made his support drop like a rock.
So why exactly is the Dragon Ball Super manga inferior to the anime? Here's my point by point argument
1. The author's fanboyism for the OG crew at the expense of new characters.
Toyotaro through all the manga does everything in his power to portray every single Z character as an invincible god that the new characters are unworthy of challenging.
This is evident by his tendency to either plainly state that every single antagonist is just not that cool or powerful and that Goku and Vegeta would easily kick their asses if it weren't for X inconvenience OR have the antagonists clowned early on until they become a mild inconvinience due to plot . Don't believe me? Let's take a look
Manga Hit: Beerus states that Goku's Super Saiyan God form is enough to easiy take on Hit, who's not that strong and only beat Vegeta because he was tired form using his Blue form twice. Hit looks to him in desbelief that Goku could be that strong.
Goku proceeds to beat him with God and Later Blue but throws the match because he thinks Hit not being able to kill him with his assassin moves (Already stated to be useless) is boring.
Now let's compare that to how the anime did it.
In the anime Goku needs to use Kaioken x10 to match the speed of Hit's timeskip powers, and even then he's only able to gain the upper hand for a little while. Goku throws the match because he knows his body is reaching it's limit, and that Hit is not even going full power due to the Kill limitation. He accepts his defeat.
Manga Goku Black: On their very first encounter with Goku Black, Goku Black states that he's only able to reach Super Saiyan 1. Vegeta mocks him and proceeds to kick his ass for the next 2 or so pages with his Super Saiyan Blue. We even get some lovely shots of Black bitching and crying about being so weak against Vegeta.
After that humilliating performance. He unlocks Super Saiyan Rosé and gets the upper hand...After his very first showing made him look like a total weakling.
The anime had base Black who was stated to be stupidly strong hold his own against Vegeta for a bit, then reveal he was just playing around and proceeds to destroy Vegeta with Rose.
Manga Merged Zamasu: He attacks by throwing really heavy cubes until Goku in Blue just blows half of him with the Beeru´s level Hakai technique....that he learned off screen.
Meanwhile in the Anime he's a Final Fantasy Final Boss.
Manga Kale: As soon as she becomes Legendary Super Saiyan we're told the form is slowly killing her. She wipes out several TOP Universes offscreen but then she's easily subdued by the weakest Pride Troopers, blacks out and is FORCED TO FUSE with Caulifla to try and save her life.
In the anime, her Broly like form is something she needs to own and learn to control. She eventually does and then feels confident enough to fight alongside her best friends Caulifla as an equal (their relationship is non existent in the manga). After being pushed to edge she willingly fuses with Caulifla to face Goku
Manga Kefla: After her completely offscreen battle with what appears to be base Gohan, she loudly proclaims her inferiority to a mere human and accepts that she's at her limit. She lands one final punch at Gohan and the match ends in a tie.
Anime Kefla:
Manga Jiren: Master Roshi dodges Jiren easily to try and show Goku how Ultra Instinct is just the basics of Martial Arts all his masters have been trying to teach him. This is after it's stated Jiren can punch faster than time. This gave birth to the Ultra Instinct Roshi jokes.
Anime Jiren stopped a Spirit Bomb WITH HIS EYES.
Not a single new villain ever poses a real threat to the heroes
2- The AWFUL anatomy of Toyotaro's art. His repepetive poses, terrible composition, busy pages and his tracing from the OG manga.
These 2 videos are a fantastic analisys of the problem. With far more examples than I can post.
3-No Charm or character, just power levels
Toyotaro tries to keep "Consistent" power levels at the expense of characters. Several examples include Trunks doing jackshit in the Future Trunks Arc because his level is low, so Toyotaro makes him a healer that can use his subconcious to heal Goku and Vegeta from the bench while they fight for his home. The Future Trunks arc everybody!
Caulifla and Kale not having any relationship whatosever, Toppo not being obsessed with Hero poses, Piccolo never facing the Universe 6 Namekians and learning about their choice to fuse with half their planet, Gohan never faces the thought of having a man's family much like his own erased for his actions, Kale never learns to control her powers, Vegeta has no feelings for Cabba and the U6 Saiyans, No Roshi fighting to an inch of his life in the TOP....nothing.
The characters just exist to explain their power number. Fight the OG's and lose. Nothing feels exciting, nothing feels dynamic...it's just awful
Overall...I'm incredibly dissapointed to hear Toyotaro is Toriyama's succesor in the writing chair.
-There's going to be open spoilers for Dragon Ball Super from this point on so if you're a dub only viewer please turn around.-
Dragon Ball Super anime had it's fair share of problems but to pretend it didn´t resonate with the Dragon Ball fanbase is just wrong. DBS revived the franchise and rekindled the DB craze to the same level it had back in the 90´s.
Both anime and manga share the same core story as Akira Toriyama writes the most important story beats and character designs on some napkins and then hands them over to both the anime team, and his replacement Mangaka Toyotaro (in)famous writer of the Dragon Ball AF fanmanga. Both teams are free to fill in the blanks regarding what is inbetween point A and B in Toriyama's outline. And then Toriyama checks the final product and gives it the go ahead. (The manga's monthly "promotional piece for the anime" format meant lagging behind the main product.)
Problem is, the manga not only doubles down on many of the anime's problems but also takes away any kind of charm or memoraility from the Super Arcs. And while many fans were eager to defend Toyotaro's ideas his last few months of specially awful chapters made his support drop like a rock.
So why exactly is the Dragon Ball Super manga inferior to the anime? Here's my point by point argument
1. The author's fanboyism for the OG crew at the expense of new characters.
Toyotaro through all the manga does everything in his power to portray every single Z character as an invincible god that the new characters are unworthy of challenging.
This is evident by his tendency to either plainly state that every single antagonist is just not that cool or powerful and that Goku and Vegeta would easily kick their asses if it weren't for X inconvenience OR have the antagonists clowned early on until they become a mild inconvinience due to plot . Don't believe me? Let's take a look
Manga Hit: Beerus states that Goku's Super Saiyan God form is enough to easiy take on Hit, who's not that strong and only beat Vegeta because he was tired form using his Blue form twice. Hit looks to him in desbelief that Goku could be that strong.
Goku proceeds to beat him with God and Later Blue but throws the match because he thinks Hit not being able to kill him with his assassin moves (Already stated to be useless) is boring.
Now let's compare that to how the anime did it.
In the anime Goku needs to use Kaioken x10 to match the speed of Hit's timeskip powers, and even then he's only able to gain the upper hand for a little while. Goku throws the match because he knows his body is reaching it's limit, and that Hit is not even going full power due to the Kill limitation. He accepts his defeat.
Manga Goku Black: On their very first encounter with Goku Black, Goku Black states that he's only able to reach Super Saiyan 1. Vegeta mocks him and proceeds to kick his ass for the next 2 or so pages with his Super Saiyan Blue. We even get some lovely shots of Black bitching and crying about being so weak against Vegeta.
After that humilliating performance. He unlocks Super Saiyan Rosé and gets the upper hand...After his very first showing made him look like a total weakling.
The anime had base Black who was stated to be stupidly strong hold his own against Vegeta for a bit, then reveal he was just playing around and proceeds to destroy Vegeta with Rose.
Manga Merged Zamasu: He attacks by throwing really heavy cubes until Goku in Blue just blows half of him with the Beeru´s level Hakai technique....that he learned off screen.
Meanwhile in the Anime he's a Final Fantasy Final Boss.
Manga Kale: As soon as she becomes Legendary Super Saiyan we're told the form is slowly killing her. She wipes out several TOP Universes offscreen but then she's easily subdued by the weakest Pride Troopers, blacks out and is FORCED TO FUSE with Caulifla to try and save her life.
In the anime, her Broly like form is something she needs to own and learn to control. She eventually does and then feels confident enough to fight alongside her best friends Caulifla as an equal (their relationship is non existent in the manga). After being pushed to edge she willingly fuses with Caulifla to face Goku
Manga Kefla: After her completely offscreen battle with what appears to be base Gohan, she loudly proclaims her inferiority to a mere human and accepts that she's at her limit. She lands one final punch at Gohan and the match ends in a tie.
Anime Kefla:
Manga Jiren: Master Roshi dodges Jiren easily to try and show Goku how Ultra Instinct is just the basics of Martial Arts all his masters have been trying to teach him. This is after it's stated Jiren can punch faster than time. This gave birth to the Ultra Instinct Roshi jokes.
Anime Jiren stopped a Spirit Bomb WITH HIS EYES.
Not a single new villain ever poses a real threat to the heroes
2- The AWFUL anatomy of Toyotaro's art. His repepetive poses, terrible composition, busy pages and his tracing from the OG manga.
These 2 videos are a fantastic analisys of the problem. With far more examples than I can post.
3-No Charm or character, just power levels
Toyotaro tries to keep "Consistent" power levels at the expense of characters. Several examples include Trunks doing jackshit in the Future Trunks Arc because his level is low, so Toyotaro makes him a healer that can use his subconcious to heal Goku and Vegeta from the bench while they fight for his home. The Future Trunks arc everybody!
Caulifla and Kale not having any relationship whatosever, Toppo not being obsessed with Hero poses, Piccolo never facing the Universe 6 Namekians and learning about their choice to fuse with half their planet, Gohan never faces the thought of having a man's family much like his own erased for his actions, Kale never learns to control her powers, Vegeta has no feelings for Cabba and the U6 Saiyans, No Roshi fighting to an inch of his life in the TOP....nothing.
The characters just exist to explain their power number. Fight the OG's and lose. Nothing feels exciting, nothing feels dynamic...it's just awful
Overall...I'm incredibly dissapointed to hear Toyotaro is Toriyama's succesor in the writing chair.
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