Dragon Quest composer Koichi Sugiyama isn't happy just being a war crime denier, is anti-LGBT too!

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duckroll

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Proving something never happened is in general kind of difficult. I can't recall an apology, and Truman's stance was he does not regret it and would do it again. However Obama visiting definitely was viewed as good will though.

Of course teams that win don't ever have to apologize if they don't want too. It's sort of a rule.
Talking about an apology is pretty different from saying that nobody has ever talked about how shit it is to use such a weapon. :thinkingemoji:
 

ShinySunny

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Dec 15, 2017
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I supporting square Enix not him. He doesn't make the game alone dude
SE is associated with him. Therefore the higher ups are also supporting his ideology.
You see SE comment on his hate speech? I thought so.
They are a global company, but they rather work with him than speaking out against hates.

He has royalty to everything DQ related.
So yeah, this is basically a donation to his political war chest with each sale.
 

Hope

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Oct 28, 2017
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Japan was let off too easy after the war. And due to this, today, school kids in Japan largely not being taught about the extent of war crimes and war casualties. Local records of said crimes were allowed to be destroyed. Data obtained from torture camps were bought by American scientists. Perpetrators equivalent to Mengelev were completely pardoned. Probably 10million Chinese casualties, and Japanese students are not taught about Nanking, and textbooks instead focus on Hiroshima and Nagasaki and how it signifies the importance of peace. I mean, sure, but the more convincing evidence for "importance of peace" is the totality of WW2 history.
Thats gross. So you hate japan that much? Americans used fucking agent orange in a specific war. Dont call ppl out, we are humans and most if not all countries did bad shit but saying shit like this is really bad.
 

Glio

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Threads like this will be useful when we have the inevitable '' Why Dragon Quest XI has not reached the success of Octopath in the West? ''
 

YuriCloud3

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SE is associated with him. Therefore the higher ups are also supporting his ideology.
You see SE comment on his hate speech? I thought so.
They are a global company, but they rather work with him than speaking out against hates.

He has royalty to everything DQ related.
So yeah, this is basically a donation to his political war chest with each sale.
So because of him. I shouldn't support the work of thousands of people with different ideals because I no agree with one of them? Sorry I can't think that way. Getting dq11 day one here
 

aSqueakyLime

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Oct 27, 2017
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Japan was let off too easy after the war. And due to this, today, school kids in Japan largely not being taught about the extent of war crimes and war casualties. Local records of said crimes were allowed to be destroyed. Data obtained from torture camps were bought by American scientists. Perpetrators equivalent to Mengelev were completely pardoned. Probably 10million Chinese casualties, and Japanese students are not taught about Nanking, and textbooks instead focus on Hiroshima and Nagasaki and how it signifies the importance of peace. I mean, sure, but the more convincing evidence for "importance of peace" is the totality of WW2 history.
You do know this is false right? Textbooks in Japan nowadays most certainly do talk about the atrocities they committed.

Stop trying to push this easily debunk-able rubbish.

(edited because too harsh earlier)
 
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Renna Hazel

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Oct 27, 2017
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You mean like the trade war the biggest man in the US started. Or the shit he talked about mexicans. Or that to this day nobody talked about how shit it was to use a nuclear bomb.

Wishing this man death is too extreme.
The nuclear bomb debate has been going on for 70 years now.

And yes, all of those things are fair reasons to judge people. I view President Trump very negatively as well. Not sure what he has to do with this though.
 

ryechu

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Oct 25, 2017
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Thats gross. So you hate japan that much? Americans used fucking agent orange in a specific war. Dont call ppl out, we are humans and most if not all countries did bad shit but saying shit like this is really bad.
I dont hate Japan? The fact is that WW2 Japan were as bad as the Nazis. Pretty sure most people would instinctively try to oppose this statement, which is due to the differential treatment of history both by the their countries, and the world overall.
 
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duckroll

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Thats gross. So you hate japan that much? Americans used fucking agent orange in a specific war. Dont call ppl out, we are humans and most if not all countries did bad shit but saying shit like this is really bad.
Acknowledging that American political agendas resulted in post-war Japan never properly owning up to their war crimes and formed a modern society distinct from how Germany strongly distances themselves from the actions during the war is not gross. It is modern history. Japan has a problematic relationship with their actions during the war, and many nationalists are allowed to fester the way they do because that part of their history was never properly condemned nationwide and drilled into future generations.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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it's a big bummer that he has those views

a few years back i started a project of playing through all dragon quest games, but after learning about this shithead's views i lost all appetite for them and will probably not play any more until after he's dead or has renounced his views

i don't want to support that kind of trash
 

Renna Hazel

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Oct 27, 2017
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The point was. Do you wish him death because of it? I wouldnt.
He's actively ruining the lives of millions of people and doing damage that will last for the majority of our lifetime. The fact that so many innocent people would be better off with him gone means that I wouldn't lose sleep if the guy went away.
 

DeepChord

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Jan 21, 2018
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I dont hate Japan? The fact is that WW2 Japan were as bad as the Nazis. Pretty sure most people wouldn't instinctively try to oppose this statement, which is due to the differential treatment of history both by the their countries, and the world as whole.
As a german I would definitely instinctively oppose this statement. Don't know what to make of it.
 

casiopao

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Oct 28, 2017
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SE is associated with him. Therefore the higher ups are also supporting his ideology.
You see SE comment on his hate speech? I thought so.
They are a global company, but they rather work with him than speaking out against hates.

He has royalty to everything DQ related.
So yeah, this is basically a donation to his political war chest with each sale.
Yeah. If u really wanted to make a stand. You should really boycott the game. Saying that u will not support him and his cause but still buy this game is kinda hypocrite as u know ur muney will end in his pocket.
 

Deleted member 9971

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How does a big company like square enix still not fire him? Should be fired immediatly just cuz he has some fame and skill does not mean it should clear his wrong doings.
 

ryechu

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As a german I would definitely instinctively oppose this statement. Don't know what to make of it.
Maybe the Nazis were worse because they had an explicit stated white supremacist agenda. I'm mostly arguing in terms of the atrocities committed, however. But it's not like the Imperial Japanese army weren't racist.

Also I meant to type "would instinctively", which should make that sentence make a lot more sense.
 

Mcjmetroid

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Oct 28, 2017
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The music does seem like the worst part of this game so far in fairness. Those amazing high quality graphics and then the soundtrack.

Shocked on his views in fairness. Stuff like this wouldn't be accepted in the west in a large company. Japan does seem to have a long way to go in that regard.
 
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duckroll

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As a german I would definitely instinctively oppose this statement. Don't know what to make of it.
Why? They were on the same side they supported each other's views, they conquered lands locally and were trying to stem out their foes to build some illusionary greater nation that's purer. The Japanese soldiers committed serious atrocities, enforced systematic sexual slavery, and conducted human experiments. Fuck the entire regime and anyone who downplays how bad they were.
 

ShinySunny

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Dec 15, 2017
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Yeah. If u really wanted to make a stand. You should really boycott the game. Saying that u will not support him and his cause but still buy this game is kinda hypocrite as u know ur muney will end in his pocket.
I have already boycotted this game before this thread as I stated in another DQ11 topic.
As the game is getting close to release, more people should be informed about this POS guy.
Unfortunately, all I see from IGN and other gaming media journalists are paid articles and clips on how the game isn't grindy or how to play the game as a newcomer to DQ.
 

Fosko

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Oct 27, 2017
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He’s super old and japanese, I’m not surprised of this and I really don’t care about it when it comes to buying games. Maybe if it was the game director/writer, but not otherwise.
 

Nanashrew

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Oct 25, 2017
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How does a big company like square enix still not fire him? Should be fired immediatly just cuz he has some fame and skill does not mean it should clear his wrong doings.
It's more that Square Enix hires him. He's not employed by Square Enix as he's a free agent to do what he wants.

It's that tradition precedes everything in a lot of things in Japan, Dragon Quest especially. So they hire Sugiyama to do the music every single time with very few exceptions like spinoff games where they hire other composers. And it sucks. Square Enix won't do anything about this, and haven't for years when these things about Sugiyama were found out. It also doesn't help that Sugiyama is in a position of power in the music/game industry from being a council member of JASRAC and also being such a huge legend to many.
 

KratosEnergyDrink

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I didn't knew what kind of human the DQ composer is, was never a DQ fan, but wanted to try the new one and I know at least one girl who waits for DQ XI and will surely not buy it if she sees this video.

Square should instantly fire him and replace his music in the latest DQ game. Would be good on multiple levels, the localisation could get rid of the awful midi music, a dumb human is no longer involved in the game and Squares reputation would not take a hit.
 

Blade Wolf

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As a german I would definitely instinctively oppose this statement. Don't know what to make of it.
You have no idea what happened in Nanking, people were tortured, raped and brutally murdered at the same time, there're many pictures and videos of the actual slaughter that you can find online if you are for some reason not buying it.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contest_to_kill_100_people_using_a_sword

This is an actual news headline in Japan from December 1937, it's a contest between two Japanese officer over who is the first to behead 105 civilians with their sword, in the end one of them cut down 105 and the other cut down 106 but they weren't sure who did it first so they just laugh it off and redo the whole thing again. They were literally proud of this shit and were happy to share with the entire nation of Japan while the Nazis don't even want their people to know about the genocide.

WWII Japan is just as bad as the Nazis, if not worse.
 
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Drek

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Oct 27, 2017
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I'm out on all future projects he's involved in, but that's been the case since I first heard about his war crimes denial bullshit years ago. It's a shame because DQ8 is one of my all-time favorite games but it's tainted as a result as is the rest of the franchise.

We'll see how much of a soapbox SE continues to give him. For me personally they're on a thin line between me just not buying anything SE makes until he's gone.

As a german I would definitely instinctively oppose this statement. Don't know what to make of it.
As bad as Nazis is debatable, but both regimes were among the most deplorable examples of ethnic discrimination as government policy as you'll really be able to find. There's a reason why events like the Rape of Nanking are named what they are.

I love his music. He can be an ass. But I want his music on a new dragon quest. I like to separate the artist from his work. I love Michael Jackson music. And don't like him as a person for example. Everybody has flaws. Look at James guun. I love guardians of the galaxy. But the guy is nuts
Michael Jackson - accused but never convicted of pedophilia. Problematic to be sure. He's dead now and his work is owned by a faceless megacorp, so there isn't much to decide here.

James Gunn - made a few shitty edgelord jokes on Twitter nearly a decade ago. Apologized for it a little over half a decade ago and hasn't backtracked on that apology.

Koichi Sugiyama - actively funds war crime denier propaganda and openly enjoys the idea of disenfranchisement of people based on gender identity and sexual preference as public policy.

Nice false equivalency you've constructed there.

You mean like the trade war the biggest man in the US started. Or the shit he talked about mexicans. Or that to this day nobody talked about how shit it was to use a nuclear bomb.

Wishing this man death is too extreme.
1. I think a lot of people having issues with Sugiyama also have issues with Donald Trump.

2. How was using a weapon that ended the worst war in history more expeditiously, employed by one of the aggrieved parties, "shit"? Maybe in the context of "don't start shit, won't be shit", but that's about all I got.

As for "too extreme"? I'm personally a strong believer that a life is worth only as much as you do with it. Most people wind up on the positive side of the ledger because the personal relationships they have put more good into the world than passively being shit in other ways.

Sugiyama actively pushes a net negative value out into the world. He makes some catchy video game music and I'm sure has people who love him. Meanwhile he actively funds and promotes hate speech towards tens of millions of people. I don't see how those scales balance or tilt to the good there.

That doesn't mean someone should go looking to take matters into their own hands, but it's simple empirical logic to say that if just the top 10% of net negative actors up and died of natural causes tomorrow the world would be a better place for it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
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I find it weird that for a game with such happy, jolly and cosy visuals/music you have a composer who is seemingly the opposite of all of that. I mean either he agrees with what is being said or he's a coward who won't speak up on something he disagrees with in fear of being fired. Considering he could have just never accepted being host of the show I feel it's the former. :/
 

ethomaz

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He is really a low person in human terms that are probably based in the period he lived where Japan suffered a lot (some old guys envolve to modern views others stay with his closed mind forever).

He is old so his contradictory view points will be even more expressive than before.

Said that his music are magical and I love hear it in MIDI format... he is dick talented.
 

L Thammy

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As a german I would definitely instinctively oppose this statement. Don't know what to make of it.
I don't think the scale is the same, and Imperial Japan was weirdly protective of the Jewish people in particular, but the comparison makes sense a lot of the time. Imperial Japan learned from and imitated the Nazis and engaged in a lot of the same things, plus their own atrocities.
 

Iggy

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Oct 27, 2017
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Sugiyama dying soon or not will unfortunately not help anything, as I'm pretty sure he'll give the rights of his musics to one of his organizations.
So after his death, whenever SQEX will sell any DQ with his compositions (which will be remixed until the end of time) they will legally have to send money to organizations denying the Nankin massacre or making lives of LGBT people harder. And there's nothing they'll be able to do about it.
 

YuriCloud3

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Dec 8, 2017
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As bad as Nazis is debatable, but both regimes were among the most deplorable examples of ethnic discrimination as government policy as you'll really be able to find. There's a reason why events like the Rape of Nanking are named what they are.


Michael Jackson - accused but never convicted of pedophilia. Problematic to be sure. He's dead now and his work is owned by a faceless megacorp, so there isn't much to decide here.

James Gunn - made a few shitty edgelord jokes on Twitter nearly a decade ago. Apologized for it a little over half a decade ago and hasn't backtracked on that apology.

Koichi Sugiyama - actively funds war crime denier propaganda and openly enjoys the idea of disenfranchisement of people based on gender identity and sexual preference as public policy.

Nice false equivalency you've constructed there.


1. I think a lot of people having issues with Sugiyama also have issues with Donald Trump.

2. How was using a weapon that ended the worst war in history more expeditiously, employed by one of the aggrieved parties, "shit"? Maybe in the context of "don't start shit, won't be shit", but that's about all I got.

As for "too extreme"? I'm personally a strong believer that a life is worth only as much as you do with it. Most people wind up on the positive side of the ledger because the personal relationships they have put more good into the world than passively being shit in other ways.

Sugiyama actively pushes a net negative value out into the world. He makes some catchy video game music and I'm sure has people who love him. Meanwhile he actively funds and promotes hate speech towards tens of millions of people. I don't see how those scales balance or tilt to the good there.

That doesn't mean someone should go looking to take matters into their own hands, but it's simple empirical logic to say that if just the top 10% of net negative actors up and died of natural causes tomorrow the world would be a better place for it.
Not false equivalency. Just my personal opinion. I love they work and will consume then. Regardless they opinion. I couldn't care less about theyr opinions. I just like they work. And in some cases is not done from they alone. But from a lot of people
 

Aters

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Oct 26, 2017
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I don't think the scale is the same, and Imperial Japan was weirdly protective of the Jewish people in particular, but the comparison makes sense a lot of the time. Imperial Japan learned from and imitated the Nazis and engaged in a lot of the same things, plus their own atrocities.
Not as weird as you think. Japan always have good relationship with Jewish people. Jewish bankers loaned money to Japan which helped their war with Russia.
 

RKR

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Oct 27, 2017
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You have no idea what happened in Nanking, people were tortured, raped and brutally murdered at the same time, there're many pictures and videos of the actual slaughter that you can find online if you are for some reason not buying it.



This is an actual news headline in Japan from December 1937, it's a contest between two Japanese officer over who is the first to behead 105 civilians with their sword, in the end one of them cut down 105 and the other cut down 106 but they weren't sure who did it first so they just laugh it off and redo the whole thing again.

Pictures of the heads one of the officer cut down [WARNING: GRAPHIC] Don't click on the link if you don't want to see the image. https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTvZNJiGsln-vCSwj8EnJMG7zp7JizZaqYIMMH13ECQnRyYi6gA

WWII Japan is just as bad as the Nazis, if not worse.
I am Dutch, as perhaps known we had colonies in the far east. mainly the Indies. My grandparents had family who fought with the army there with the KNIL (Royal Netherlands East Indies Army) against the Japanese invaders, some were put in Japanese camps. They never even wanted to talk about the shit they've seen there. It was supposedly even worse than the Nazis.
 

sapien85

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Nov 8, 2017
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Strange that in a country where straight people are barely having kids one would complain about gay people not having them. By that logic shouldn't the elderly, those who can but choose not to have kids and those who physically can't have children all be considered a waste of resources? Including this composer, doubt he's having many kids at 87.
 

Drek

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Not false equivalency. Just my personal opinion. I love they work and will consume then. Regardless they opinion. I couldn't care less about theyr opinions. I just like they work. And in some cases is not done from they alone. But from a lot of people
Equating the three is a clear example of false equivalence. Not having a problem with any of it is your choice, but acting like they're remotely comparable events is absurd.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
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Oct 25, 2017
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Not as weird as you think. Japan always have good relationship with Jewish people. Jewish bankers loaned money to Japan which helped their war with Russia.
Well, it's still weird from a state that was using modified versions of Nazi racial superiority ideas.

Another explanation I've heard - I don't know how accepted this is - is that they bought into Jewish conspiracy theories and figured that people who could secretly control the world were good people to have on their side.
 

ryechu

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Oct 25, 2017
558
You do know this is false right? Textbooks in Japan nowadays most certainly do talk about the atrocities they committed.

Stop trying to push this easily debunk-able rubbish.

(edited because too harsh earlier)
Nah, You are right, and I overspoke. Standard textbooks do touch on war crimes: comfort women, and Nanking specifically. It is my impression, however, that they are sparse in details and death counts are systematically lower by orders of magnitude, and not only in right-leaning textbooks. My statements earlier were from a hazily remembered anecdote of Nanking getting a small paragraph while the bombs got pages in a standard textbook.

Do you really believe this? This is one of the most shocking casual comments I've seen posted on this forum, for many reasons.
Do you know how many war criminals were just allowed to return to their daily lives? Could you imagine if Josef Megele was given a pardon in exchange for his research?
 
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Berry Phazon

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Oct 27, 2017
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2. How was using a weapon that ended the worst war in history more expeditiously, employed by one of the aggrieved parties, "shit"? Maybe in the context of "don't start shit, won't be shit", but that's about it.
That bit is way off the mark. More recently, historians have debunked this myth of the necessity of Hiroshima and Nagasaki for ending the war faster. Sticking to this narrative conversely only serves to defend the American fairy tale of the noble soldier who is saving the world from evil and can thusly not do evil himself.

On topic:
Are there any precedents of an industry icon being fired for what unfortunately is still regarded just as 'personal opinions'?
I guess in Japan you're far more likely to get fired and shunned by society for drug abuse that being shitty to minorities.
 
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duckroll

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Not false equivalency. Just my personal opinion. I love they work and will consume then. Regardless they opinion. I couldn't care less about theyr opinions. I just like they work. And in some cases is not done from they alone. But from a lot of people
If you don't care about a homophobic war crime denier why are you even in the thread? To proudly tell us that you don't care? That's pretty scummy.
 

Eumi

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Nov 3, 2017
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So because of him. I shouldn't support the work of thousands of people with different ideals because I no agree with one of them? Sorry I can't think that way. Getting dq11 day one here
If you don’t want to support him, don’t buy his game.

It’s completely fine if you want to be this game, that’s your decision to make.

But don’t claim you aren’t supporting him, because by buying this game that’s exactly what you’re doing. It doesn’t mean that you agree with his views. It doesn’t mean you tolerate them. It doesn’t mean you’re a bad person at all.

But it does mean that you have made the moral choice to purchase this game despite the knowledge that doing so is supporting this man. Which is a totally fine decision to make, but don’t pretend you aren’t making it.
 

Aters

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Oct 26, 2017
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Well, it's still weird from a state that was using modified versions of Nazi racial superiority ideas.

Another explanation I've heard - I don't know how accepted this is - is that they bought into Jewish conspiracy theories and figured that people who could secretly control the world were good people to have on their side.
Yeah I heard that one too. Ironical that the same conspiracy theory that leads to one's suffering can actually save one too.
 

Encephalon

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Oct 26, 2017
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It's so upsetting to realize that Japan's lack of recognition of its history will likely never change. Even in the U.S., people in the South seem to want to believe that that the Civil War wasn't about Slavery. This is in a country that attempted to come to terms with its past, at least to some degree.

You can't tell Japanese people that their grandparents and great grandparents would do such a thing. They refuse to believe it. It's not necessarily always out of malice, but of ignorance and the difficulty of accepting ugly truths. Of course, there is also a lot of racism in Japan towards the Chinese and Koreans, and that's certainly playing a part in it as well.
 

Blade Wolf

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Oct 27, 2017
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Not false equivalency. Just my personal opinion. I love they work and will consume then. Regardless they opinion. I couldn't care less about theyr opinions. I just like they work. And in some cases is not done from they alone. But from a lot of people
No one is trying to downplay their talent and work here, the entire thread is about them as a human being, not them as a composer.

No one ever said ''He denied war crimes! Now his music fucking sucks!!''
 
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