Drake vs. Kendrick, Future, & Metro - 5/12 - Drake waves the white flag. Beef is over

[Trup1aya]

Without it being personal it sounds generic and subliminal; that line has zero heat and we've heard 'arms to short to box with god' a zillion times as a bar. Where's the discussion on how Kendrick is never ever outside and is a pure studio creation, etc. Imho he should have just dropped the album without this track and kept it moving. No one wants impersonal beef.

Alphonse says it better:

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I mean, you asked for the bars that say he ain't outside, they are provide to you, then you are saying it didn't happen, all in defense Kendrick verse which was not a potent diss towards Cole in any way.

"Box with god" isn't the bar- it's just a reference to other diss tracks. The bar is pointing out that Kendrick lives his life in a constant facade.

Aphonse ain't saying nothing about the first verse that I haven't said here. But like I said, I'm not one that has an issue pointing out shortcomings.

You mention no one wants impersonal beef, but where are the comparative personal shots at Cole?

 

[krazen]

I mean, you asked for the bars that say he ain't outside, they are provide to you, then you are saying it didn't happen, all in defense Kendrick verse which was not a potent diss towards Cole in any way.

"Box with god" isn't the bar- it's just a reference to other diss tracks. The bar is pointing out that Kendrick lives his life in a constant facade.

Aphonse ain't saying nothing about the first verse that I haven't said here. But like I said, I'm not one that has an issue pointing out shortcomings.

You mention no one wants impersonal beef, but where are the comparative personal shots at Cole?

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I mean literally impersonal but post Drake Pusha I shouldda stipulated, lol. Not like 'I had sex with your baby mother' personal. Outside of the album rating which let you know it was about Kendrick you could almost slot in 50 other rappers in that verse. It's why the facade line went past me (and you're right about that was your point), but that also points to how generic the diss is…if you aren't going to go in on low lying fruit why try?

i can see the argument of Kendrick kept it vague so why should he escalate, but you kind of can't go back nor should you; there's was an opportunity of taking it to a place that's fun and competitive. Beef is supposed to escalate after each response in trying to outdo each other so I guess it's fitting in mainstream rap 2024 its who can maintain their brand better.

I popped in because people were saying its because Kendrick's fandom is why people are writing the diss off. I really hoped Cole was going to bring heat; a rap battle isn't about technical rapping in the literal sense. We want personality on the mic, funny bars (which are 90% untrue in beef), beat flip into Flocka's 'Hard In the Paint' etc. You need a bit of carny action: Common putting his Kufi down and going 'I come from Chicago projects, motherfucker' with "The Bitch In You" etc.

J-Cole does complex bars in his sleep but that's not the assignment here, so to say during the Conductor beat flip its prime Cole when he was prime Cole for the previous 35 minutes isn't going to make for an entertaining beef song.

 

[Yasuke]

Beef is supposed to escalate after each response

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I mean, he sent a warning shot that nonetheless was more direct than anything Kendrick fired at him with in Like That. That New Jack Nino line was a perfect metaphor for how he came off here lmao

Idk how that's not an escalation, especially when viewed in the context of the rest of the project.

 

[krazen]

I mean, he sent a warning shot that nonetheless was more direct than anything Kendrick fired at him with in Like That. That New Jack Nino line was a perfect metaphor for how he came off here lmao

Idk how that's not an escalation, especially when viewed in the context of the rest of the project.

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We are past warning shots, the war effectively started on a #1 song based off said beef, like I said it's copium its intentionally low key. How do I l know? Like Noname ain't do shit or even mention a J-Cole and this is what he had about her out the beef gate; where's this energy? Mind you he's 110% wrong and misguided here (lol) but clearly the energy is way different and better. By Cole standards this 7 minute is mid.

Niggas be thinkin' I'm deep, intelligent, fooled by my college degree
My IQ is average, there's a young lady out there, she way smarter than me
I scrolled through her timeline in these wild times, and I started to read
She mad at these crackers, she mad at these capitalists, mad at these murder police
She mad at my niggas, she mad at our ignorance, she wear her heart on her sleeve
She mad at the celebrities, lowkey I be thinkin' she talkin' 'bout me
Now I ain't no dummy to think I'm above criticism
So when I see something that's valid, I listen
But shit, it's something about the queen tone that's botherin' me
She strike me as somebody blessed enough to grow up in conscious environment
With parents that know 'bout the struggle for liberation and in turn they provide her with
A perspective and awareness of the system and unfairness that afflicts 'em
And the clearest understandin' of what we gotta do to get free
And the frustration that fills her words seems to come from the fact that most people don't see
Just 'cause you woke and I'm not, that shit ain't no reason to talk like you better than me
How you gon' lead
When you attackin' the very same niggas that really do need the shit that you sayin'?
Instead of conveyin' you holier, come help us get up to speed

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[Malleymal]

I ain't listen to that shit since it dropped. That's all I need to know. Hopefully he brings something better next time. "Like that" is just a better song.

I'm not a huge fan of either artist, but like what they have brought to hip hop on the lyrical side of things.

 

[Yasuke]

We are past warning shots, the war effectively started on a #1 song based off said beef, like I said it's copium its intentionally low key. How do I l know? Like Noname ain't do shit or even mention a J-Cole and this is what he had about her out the beef gate; where's this energy? Mind you he's 110% wrong and misguided here (lol) but clearly the energy is way different and better. By Cole standards this 7 minute is mid.

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Again, in the context of the entire project, this isn't any different to what Cole's bringing to Kendrick.

Think we just disagree here.

 

[Trup1aya]

I mean literally impersonal but post Drake Pusha I shouldda stipulated, lol. Not like 'I had sex with your baby mother' personal. Outside of the album rating which let you know it was about Kendrick you could almost slot in 50 other rappers in that verse. It's why the facade line went past me (and you're right about that was your point), but that also points to how generic the diss is…if you aren't going to go in on low lying fruit why try?

i can see the argument of Kendrick kept it vague so why should he escalate, but you kind of can't go back nor should you; there's was an opportunity of taking it to a place that's fun and competitive. Beef is supposed to escalate after each response in trying to outdo each other so I guess it's fitting in mainstream rap 2024 its who can maintain their brand better.

I popped in because people were saying its because Kendrick's fandom is why people are writing the diss off. I really hoped Cole was going to bring heat; a rap battle isn't about technical rapping in the literal sense. We want personality on the mic, funny bars (which are 90% untrue in beef), beat flip into Flocka's 'Hard In the Paint' etc. You need a bit of carny action: Common putting his Kufi down and going 'I come from Chicago projects, motherfucker' with "The Bitch In You" etc.

J-Cole does complex bars in his sleep but that's not the assignment here, so to say during the Conductor beat flip its prime Cole when he was prime Cole for the previous 35 minutes isn't going to make for an entertaining beef song.

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And my point is, look a Kendrick's verse with that same critical eye, then you shouldn't be singing its praises. the warning shot that Cole sent had more personals in addition to being more technical. He did outdo Kendrick as Kendrick's has 0 personals, and isn't technically impressive in anyway. It's only hype because it's a diss record.

That's exactly what I mean when I say people Stanning. They completely willing to overlook the fact that as a diss, "Like that" is just light work, only because they excited that he made a diss record. Cole coulda, and maybe shoulda came harder (and shoulda deleted the first verse), but the Kendrick's verse hardly warranted an Ether or No Vaseline because he didn't come at Cole hard at all.

Cole basically matched Kendrick's energy towards him, but had more jabs that actually went at Kendrick's character and had better technique to boot. I fail to see how Like That can legitimately be considered a war starter between Kendrick and Cole when it has 0 personals.

 

[krazen]

And my point is, look a Kendrick's verse with that same critical eye, then you shouldn't be singing its praises. the warning shot that Cole sent had more personals in addition to being more technical. He did outdo Kendrick as Kendrick's has 0 personals, and isn't technically impressive in anyway. It's only hype because it's a diss record.

That's exactly what I mean when I say people Stanning. They completely willing to overlook the fact that as a diss, "Like that" is just light work, only because they excited that he made a diss record. Cole coulda, and maybe shoulda came harder, but the Kendrick's verse hardly warranted an Ether or No Vaseline because he didn't come at Cole hard at all. Cole basically matched Kendrick's energy towards him, but with more jabs and better technique.

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The stanning part is where I disagree. It's a court of public opinion and we can't just say its stans who are judging Kendrick on a curve. It feels like the reverse where we are supposed to rewrite the rules when its like we've all sat through decades of beef, battleraps and subliminals to make it fit Cole's strengths of technically smart rapping.

Like I said, this is carny/sparta etc. There's no rap beef where someone comes up as hard as the initial diss on the technical level and gets a polite clap. It feels the opposite, if he had the energy for Noname who gave him no smoke as an opening salvo, why are we giving Cole 'Its a bait!' when his bait for no name was a misguided but extreme dress down out the gate.

Its why I feel its all goalpost moving, we've seen this all play out, wr know how it should play out in the beginning, and right now it's just boring.

 

[Trup1aya]

The stanning part is where I disagree. It's a court of public opinion and we can't just say its stans who are judging Kendrick on a curve. It feels like the reverse where we are supposed to rewrite the rules when its like we've all sat through decades of beef, battleraps and subliminals to make it fit Cole's strengths of technically smart rapping.

Like I said, this is carny/sparta etc. There's no rap beef where someone comes up as hard as the initial diss on the technical level and gets a polite clap. It feels the opposite, if he had the energy for Noname who gave him no smoke as an opening salvo, why are we giving Cole 'Its a bait!' when his bait for no name was a misguided but extreme dress down out the gate.

Its why I feel its all goalpost moving, we've seen this all play out, wr know how it should play out in the beginning, and right now it's just boring.

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I mean I can say it's Stan's grading Kendrick on a curve. He literally had nothing for Cole besides saying " actually, I'm the best". And people acting like Kendrick washed Cole.

To me, people are rewriting rules in Kendrick's favor. Wake me up when he has at least one Personal. Until then, we just have rappers throwing jabs, with Cole's being harder.

The no-name thing, imo wasn't no diss. It was just typical J Cole patronizing younger artists lol

 

[ElBoxy]

Am I missing something about the 4 albums, 12 years line? It's not like Cole is exactly churning out music at a record pace either.

Dude has 5 studio albums in the same time period.

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It's a callback to a Jay-Z lyric from Takeover:

You said you've been in this ten, I've been in it five, smarten up, Nas
Four albums in ten years, ni**a? I could divide
That's one every, let's say two, two of them shits was doo
One was nah, the other was Illmatic
That's a one hot album every ten year average
And that's so (Lame)

The problem is we're talking about 4 critically acclaimed albums. Attacking Kendrick for having quality over quantity isn't a hard diss like Cole thinks it is.

 

[j7vikes]

I mean I can say it's Stan's grading Kendrick on a curve. He literally had nothing for Cole besides saying " actually, I'm the best". And people acting like Kendrick washed Cole.

To me, people are rewriting rules in Kendrick's favor. Wake me up when he has at least one Personal. Until then, we just have rappers throwing jabs, with Cole's being harder.

The no-name thing, imo wasn't no diss. It was just typical J Cole patronizing younger artists lol

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Yeah Kendrick doesn't need any love here Cole has this one based on what we have. I don't think Cole's is crazy it's just Kendrick didn't really throw much at him so more than a little is something.

Either way the whole thing is boring so far and no one will think about this in a month or two unless someone amps it up.

 

[Trup1aya]

Yeah Kendrick doesn't need any love here Cole has this one based on what we have. I don't think Cole's is crazy it's just Kendrick didn't really throw much at him so more than a little is something.

Either way the whole thing is boring so far and no one will think about this in a month or two unless someone amps it up.

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That's pretty much where I'm at.

Drake and Kendrick been sneak dissing for a decade. Now we got J Cole and Kendrick jabbing each other.

Any day now somebody gonna take the gloves off.

sad day in hip hop when the hardest diss of the year was a ghostwritten song performed by Benzino.

 

[a916]

Cole being transphobic and calling TPAB boring before gassing up Damn anyways over a stock sounding beat is a WOAT-tier diss

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j cole said TPAB was mid 🙃

"one hard verse every 30 months or something, if he wasn't dissing we wouldn't be discussing him" except this literally started because J Cole was discussing Kendrick on first person shooter 💀

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Feel like Cole's referring to Good Kid and saying TPAB was massive and his prime. If we count Section 8 as his first album it lines up. But then he calls his first album classic... idk

No way he's praising DAMN lol.

 

[j7vikes]

That's pretty much where I'm at.

Drake and Kendrick been sneak dissing for a decade. Now we got J Cole and Kendrick jabbing each other.

Any day now somebody gonna take the gloves off.

sad day in hip hop when the hardest diss of the year was a ghostwritten song performed by Benzino.

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Actually I don't think the gloves ever come off. Cole doesn't seem like the type that is going to keep going at someone without being provoked. Kendrick has multiple small disses at people where you think it will merge into something and rarely does. Drake is in a completely different lane than the other two and has way more experience beefing than either but does he even give a shit now? I could see him popping some lines off here and there like usual but a full blown war I just don't see.

I'd like to be wrong because Kendrick and Cole both have a pen game that could be pretty fun if they wanted to make it something but I just don't think this morphs into that.

 

[Trup1aya]

Actually I don't think the gloves ever come off. Cole doesn't seem like the type that is going to keep going at someone without being provoked. Kendrick has multiple small disses at people where you think it will merge into something and rarely does. Drake is in a completely different lane than the other two and has way more experience beefing than either but does he even give a shit now? I could see him popping some lines off here and there like usual but a full blown war I just don't see.

I'd like to be wrong because Kendrick and Cole both have a pen game that could be pretty fun if they wanted to make it something but I just don't think this morphs into that.

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Yeah I don't really think it's happening, I was being sarcastic . I'd like it to happen, I think Cole v Kendrick would be entertaining… but I don't think there's enough animosity there.

 

[Trup1aya]

Feel like Cole's referring to Good Kid and saying TPAB was massive and his prime. If we count Section 8 as his first album it lines up. But then he calls his first album classic... idk

No way he's praising DAMN lol.

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Yeah

Yo first shit was classic - Section 80
Yo last shit was tragic - Mr. Morale and the Big Steppers
Your 2nd shit put niggas to sleep, but they gassed it - good kid
Your 3rd shit was massive that was your prime- TPAB

It's the only way to make any kind of sense of it.

 

[Yasuke]

Yeah

Yo first shit was classic - Section 80
Yo last shit was tragic - Mr. Morale and the Big Steppers
Your 2nd shit put niggas to sleep, but they gassed it - good kid
Your 3rd shit was massive that was your prime- TPAB

It's the only way to make any kind of sense of it.

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lol no

He's not talking about Section 80 at all.

He's calling TPAB boring and DAMN his prime.

I disagree with the TPAB diss, but calling DAMN his prime isn't exactly a stretch.

 

[Trup1aya]

lol no

He's not talking about Section 80 at all.

He's calling TPAB boring and DAMN his prime.

I disagree with the TPAB diss, but calling DAMN his prime isn't exactly a stretch.

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🤷🏾‍♂️ I'm trying to make sense of it. TPAB is his best work IMO. DAMN did a lot better commercially, but I definitely can't say it's was his prime when TPAB exists.

Section.80 is objectively his 1st album, so I can't just assume he's skipping it by default.

 

[Yasuke]

🤷🏾‍♂️ I'm trying to make sense of it. TPAB is his best work IMO. DAMN did a lot better commercially, but I definitely can't say it's was his prime when TPAB exists.

Section.80 is objectively his 1st album, so I can't just assume he's skipping it by default.

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TPAB is considered his best work by a lot of people, but there are absolutely tons of niggas who don't fuck with it. It's a heavily experimental album that even some fans don't enjoy spinning often.

There's nothing to decipher here, Cole was counting from GKMC onward, which makes more sense as that was Kendrick's major label debut.

You have to ask yourself if it makes more sense to pretend DAMN doesn't exist, as you have done, or to only critique his major label releases.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Feel like Cole's referring to Good Kid and saying TPAB was massive and his prime. If we count Section 8 as his first album it lines up. But then he calls his first album classic... idk

No way he's praising DAMN lol.

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The revisionist history regarding DAMN is weird.

It was the best-reviewed album of 2017 and given AOTY by a ton of publications (Pitchfork, Rolling Stone, A.V. Club, Billboard, Complex and more).

TPAB was probably even more acclaimed by critics but it had a big drop-off from GKMC commercially. With DAMN, he took hold both critically and commercially. It was absolutely his prime.

 

[Yasuke]

The revisionist history regarding DAMN is weird.

It was the best-reviewed album of 2017 and given AOTY by a ton of publications (Pitchfork, Rolling Stone, A.V. Club, Billboard, Complex and more).

TPAB was probably even more acclaimed by critics but it had a big drop-off from GKMC commercially. With DAMN, he took hold both critically and commercially. It was absolutely his prime.

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^

Like, this isn't hard.

 

[Trup1aya]

TPAB is considered his best work by a lot of people, but there are absolutely tons of niggas who don't fuck with it. It's a heavily experimental album that even some fans don't enjoy spinning often.

There's nothing to decipher here, Cole was counting from GKMC onward, which makes more sense as that was Kendrick's major label debut.

You have to ask yourself if it makes more sense to pretend DAMN doesn't exist, as you have done, or to only critique his major label releases.

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I'm not pretending DAMN doesn't exist. If TPAB is his prime, and Big steppers was tragic, then DAMN is in between the two because he declined after TPaB.

One doesn't really make more sense to me than the other. neither one makes sense.

It doesn't make sense to call GKMC his first album… because it's not his first album. It was an independent release… so was Reasonable Doubt… is that not Jay-Z first album?

 

[Yasuke]

I'm not pretending DAMN doesn't exist.

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Yo first shit was classic - Section 80
Yo last shit was tragic - Mr. Morale and the Big Steppers
Your 2nd shit put niggas to sleep, but they gassed it - good kid
Your 3rd shit was massive that was your prime- TPAB

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You omitted DAMN entirely.

Everyone gets this but you lol

 

[ZeoVGM]

It doesn't make sense to call GKMC his first album… because it's not his first album. It was an independent release… so was Reasonable Doubt… is that not Jay-Z first album?

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You're not wrong about it not making sense. But that's what Cole is doing. Some people (incorrectly) only count major label albums for some reason.

 

[Yasuke]

It's not like Cole doesn't know the album exists, he did production for it.

I don't think it's correct or incorrect to only really consider his major label releases though. It's keeping the comparison between apples and apples, since Cole (and Drake, I guess) never dropped anything independent.

But yeah, the verse is doing what tons of people do and considering GKMC the start of K. Dot's album journey. For all intents and purposes, that was Kendrick's introduction to the mainstream.

 

[Trup1aya]

You omitted DAMN entirely.

Everyone gets this but you lol

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No I didn't ommit it. If Cole is saying TPaB Is Kendrick prime, then DAMN simply isn't his worst or his best.

Like I said, I don't think either way makes sense, but why would Cole omit the album he worked on, and used to suggest to Dre to sign Kendrick?

 

[Yasuke]

No I didn't ommit it. If Cole is saying TPaB Is Kendrick prime, then DAMN simply isn't his worst or his best.

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Considering the verse is a rundown of all his major label releases, this doesn't make any sense.

He considers DAMN Kendrick's prime, not TPAB, for reasons already explained above. That's not some stretch, man. DAMN is fucking incredible, and it set the charts on fire.

 

[ZeoVGM]

No I didn't ommit it. If Cole is saying TPaB Is Kendrick prime, then DAMN simply isn't his worst or his best.

Like I said, I don't think either way makes sense, but why would Cole omit the album he worked on, and used to suggest to Dre to sign Kendrick?

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I don't understand why it's difficult to believe someone considers DAMN his prime. It's literally his most popular period of time between that and the Black Panther album.

 

[Trup1aya]

I don't understand why it's difficult to believe someone considers DAMN his prime. It's literally his most popular period of time between that and the Black Panther album.

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It's not difficult to believe.

Difficult to believe a rappity rapper would shit on TPaB..

But like i said, neither way really makes any sense.

Considering the verse is a rundown of all his major label releases, this doesn't make any sense.

He considers DAMN Kendrick's prime, not TPAB, for reasons already explained above. That's not some stretch, man. DAMN is fucking incredible, and it set the charts on fire.

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No one said it's a stretch, just that the rundown doesn't make sense.

 

[Yasuke]

It's not difficult to believe.

Difficult to believe a rappity rapper would shit on TPaB..

But like i said, neither way really makes any sense.



No one said it's a stretch, just that the rundown doesn't make sense.

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Cole's far from the first person to shit on TPAB. I'm sure he actually loves the album though, all these niggas be cappin on the track.

But the critique makes infinitely more sense for TPAB than for GKMC, as niggas absolutely have called TPAB boring. Saying niggas didn't like GKMC would make me wanna have Cole committed lmao

 

[sonicmj1]

🤷🏾‍♂️ I'm trying to make sense of it. TPAB is his best work IMO. DAMN did a lot better commercially, but I definitely can't say it's was his prime when TPAB exists.

Section.80 is objectively his 1st album, so I can't just assume he's skipping it by default.

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"Four albums in 12 years" is the span being discussed. GKMC released in 2012, 12 years ago. Section.80 is older. It's not being included.

The alternative is that he's saying Kendrick released four albums in a span where he released five, meaning that J. Cole can divide but not add.

 

[Scrobbles]

It's almost as if it's a bad diss

 

[Trup1aya]

Cole's far from the first person to shit on TPAB. I'm sure he actually loves the album though, all these niggas be cappin on the track.

But the critique makes infinitely more sense for TPAB than for GKMC, as niggas absolutely have called TPAB boring. Saying niggas didn't like GKMC would make me wanna have Cole committed lmao

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Fair enough. But the idea that DAMN is somewhere between Kendrick's best and his worse isn't an unpopular opinion either.. and to me would make more sense than saying TPaB was "gassed". The album was under appreciated by the masses (by Kdot standards), but many a connoisseur say it's his best work.

ain't "gassed" supposed to be for shit that getting more praise than it deserves? while I agree Cole would need to be committed for implying that GKMC was sleepy, shouldn't he be describing an album he thinks overachieved?

Anyway, I'm not saying I'm convinced he ain't shitting on TPaB… I'm just saying the run down doesn't make sense anyway you slice it.

It's almost as if it's a bad diss

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First half was whack, second half was decent

 

[Trup1aya]

"Four albums in 12 years" is the span being discussed. GKMC released in 2012, 12 years ago. Section.80 is older. It's not being included.

The alternative is that he's saying Kendrick released four albums in a span where he released five, meaning that J. Cole can divide but not add.

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You talking about a whole different verse though.

"5 albums in 13 years" - doesn't flow , doesn't fit the jay-z scheme, nor does it paint the picture that Kendrick's release cadence is slow. So no matter what he meant with the first verse, he would do "4 albums 12 years" in the 2nd.

 

[Glenn]

It was fun while it lasted. J Cole just backtracked on everything he said at Dreamville fest

The real beef is between Drake and Kendrick anyway

 

[GamerJM]

Feel like Cole's referring to Good Kid and saying TPAB was massive and his prime. If we count Section 8 as his first album it lines up. But then he calls his first album classic... idk

No way he's praising DAMN lol.

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If he's not praising Damn then he's calling GKMC boring, which imo makes even less sense than calling TPAB that, plus calling Section 80 his "classic" would be weird. Praising Damn is the occam's razor explanation for what he means here, since like a previous poster said it was the peak of his commercial success.

 

[Haze]

Apologizing for a diss track at your own festival lmao

 

[ElBoxy]

View: https://twitter.com/nfr_podcast/status/1777178269483241852

He's too nice.

LMAO

 

[Haze]

Cole saw he was getting torched for two days on twitter and couldn't stand on business.

 

[Cordy]

Shoutout to Cole for that apology man, even in that track you could tell it wasn't him and his heart wasn't in it. It really felt like his homies were pushing him to make it. Glad he went back on it.

2 legends can coexist.

 

[kai3345]

lmaoooo what

 

[Lifejumper]

Its joever

 

[Lotus]

Its joever

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But we were barely barack... 😔

 

[Steven]

walking back your own diss track is crazy

 

[ze_]

lmfaoo I really, really do respect his decision to immolate himself like this to stay honest to himself but my god, it's so funny
- He keeps saying "I was conflicted" just like Kendrick does, before saying he was wrong to downplay his catalogue—he definitely ran TPAB back and then started having heart palpitations
- He ends by saying he needs to perform the song as penance

 

[SeroTyler]

What happened to the game I love?!

 

[Zebesian-X]

lmao, what a cornball

Big 3 status officially revoked IMO

 

[ze_]

Let Kendrick Down on the way

 

[JusDoIt]

never seen anything like this in my life

 

[Vectorman]

Lolol Cole folded immediately. Welp it's time to finally make that collab album now huh?