Dreams was rebooted twice but Sony continued supporting the title for over 6 years

Toriko · May 21, 2018

So Dreams looks crazy ambitious as we all know from the latest previews. Came across this neat interview where the game was apparently rebooted twice and has been in development for over 6 years but Sony has given MM the support they needed to get this to the finish line

Big props to Sony and MM for giving a AAA game of such scale and unbridled creativity this much time . Dont get games like this that often in the AAA space so kudos!

Hope it pays off big time.

--

VirtuaRacer said:
This should be added to the OP for context. Evans explains what was tossed out and the reasons why. The core game has not changed since inception. It's the underlying graphics engine that was rebooted twice.

MM's discontent with the render has been talked about a number of times previously.

MattAces · May 21, 2018

Excited to watch this, did they go into detail about what was the major changes?

HeisenbergWW62 · May 21, 2018

sounds like a lot of money, hopefully the game can turn a profit without having to resort to scummy monetization techniques

Cess007 · May 21, 2018

6 years and 2 reboots? Damn, that shows a lot of confidence and trust from Sony on MM and their vision. Hopefully the game it's a success

Riderz1337 · May 21, 2018

Difference between Sony and other publishers on display.

Falconbox · May 21, 2018

HeisenbergWW62 said:
sounds like a lot of money, hopefully the game can turn a profit without having to resort to scummy monetization techniques

I think the best way to do it would be offer tons of costumes, fancy textures, etc that people can buy to implement into their created levels/games, but DON'T require people to own the stuff in order to play the user-created levels.

It's hard to imagine what extra stuff could be added though, since from what we've seen the game already has a ridiculous amount of stuff in the game.

Maybe theme packs based off Sony exclusives? Bloodborne, Uncharted, Horizon, God of War, Detroit, Ratchet & Clank, etc costume and item DLC packs.

chrisPjelly · May 21, 2018

Sony must be very confident in the team if they're willing to be this patient.

Diarrhea Day-Lewis · May 21, 2018

HeisenbergWW62 said:
sounds like a lot of money, hopefully the game can turn a profit without having to resort to scummy monetization techniques

Judging by the last guardian and other Sony games that have been given sequels or new games from the same studio after release, doesn't seem like Sony always cares about those sales and profit

I think they've even said they're fine with some games being more critical successes than commercial, a la good TV shows that don't get ratings.

Toriko · May 21, 2018

chrisPjelly said:
Sony must be very confident in the team if they're willing to be this patient.

Yup. I think the previews show that they have a special game in their hands.

ApeEscaper · May 21, 2018

bonesawisready5 said:
Judging by the last guardian and other Sony games that have been given sequels or new games from the same studio after release, doesn't seem like Sony always cares about those sales and profit

I think they've even said they're fine with some games being more critical successes than commercial, a la good TV shows that don't get ratings.

They do care about losses though like any company would e.g Evolution Studios had to be dropped

Deleted member 1852 · May 21, 2018

They kept supporting The Last Guardian for over a decade? This isn't really out of the ordinary for Sony. They have shown a willingness to give creators time to realize their vision.

dragonflys545 · May 21, 2018

The PS4's success must have helped keep them afloat.

Jawbreaker · May 21, 2018

Thank you for believing in this title, Sony. It's looking amazing. I'm glad they allowed The Last Guardian to exist despite its long development time/console shift, too.

dragonflys545 · May 21, 2018

Buying this day one to support them.

Ridley327 · May 21, 2018

apeAsnake said:
They do care about losses though like any company would like for Evolution Studios behind Motorstorm and Driveclub games

Or Studio Liverpool and Guerilla Cambridge, for that matter. It always seemed a little strange that Media Molecule is the last one standing for their UK studios, but they've always been a much smaller team than the norm, so I can't imagine that the overhead is nearly as expensive as they were for others.

Neilg · May 21, 2018

He's a good creative director. Very transparent, realistic, and is positive without slipping into hype.

Dragoon · May 21, 2018

I'd imagine the first half of those 6 years, MM was still making bank from LBP micro transactions to stay green despite working on a new game. Good that Sony kept it afloat. This better sell -_-

Callibretto · May 21, 2018

Falconbox said:
I think the best way to do it would be offer tons of costumes, fancy textures, etc that people can buy to implement into their created levels/games, but DON'T require people to own the stuff in order to play the user-created levels.

It's hard to imagine what extra stuff could be added though, since from what we've seen the game already has a ridiculous amount of stuff in the game.

Maybe theme packs based off Sony exclusives? Bloodborne, Uncharted, Horizon, God of War, Detroit, Ratchet & Clank, etc costume and item DLC packs.

I would pay good money if they sell character dlc that come complete with gameplay animation and physics. Imagine just buying Jak character where you can just drop him into your level and it'll have all the Jak moves like spinning, punching and double jump action.

TreeMePls · May 21, 2018

Riderz1337 said:
Difference between Sony and other publishers on display.

Yep

dragonflys545 said:
The PS4's success must have helped keep them afloat.

Pretty sure MM has been turning a profit even if they haven't released a game in 6 years due to LBP DLC

Neilg · May 21, 2018

Ridley327 said:
so I can't imagine that the overhead is nearly as expensive as they were for others.

70 odd people in Surrey isn't cheap.
The difference is that they made Sony a lot of money in the past and Sony keep track of that. If this was their first game they wouldn't be around anymore.
The first little big planet was a huge cornerstone of the PS3. It was a game you couldn't get anywhere else, it represented something totally new. Sony love that shit and here's their chance to get it again.

Datajoy · May 21, 2018

Games like this and The Last Guardian are a big part of why I respect Sony as a publisher. Anyone else would have axed the game and probably the studio.

Terraforce · May 21, 2018

Man, Sony is really the only developer/publisher who I've seen really go out of their way to support sinking ships and help bring out their fullest potential. Not to throw shade, but I'm not so sure MS would have done the same based on Scalebound.

Good on MM for being able to produce the product they've envisioned.

Riversands · May 21, 2018

chrisPjelly said:
Sony must be very confident in the team if they're willing to be this patient.

Or maybe they are taking it slowly since it may also be a part of Playstation Future project

xolsec · May 21, 2018

HeisenbergWW62 said:
sounds like a lot of money, hopefully the game can turn a profit without having to resort to scummy monetization techniques

Oh, this is for the Playstation 4

Hattori · May 21, 2018

Is it a Battle Royale game now?

ThereAreFourNaan · May 21, 2018

So to follow up on the recent thread asking whether or not MM was in trouble if Dreams flops, this game being rebooted twice and effectively the only large scale project they've had since 2013 does not bode especially well for them. Tearaway Unfolded was a flop, and the original wasn't a hit either. They're a 50 person studio located in the United Kingdom, which is not the cheapest place to work nor somewhere that it's legally challenging to shutter studios. I would hope for strong sales.

Riderz1337 said:
Difference between Sony and other publishers on display.

They'll generally ship a game once announced, but they don't hesitate to shut down unprofitable studios, particularly in Europe or North America.

From the UK:

Guerilla Cambridge - 2017
https://www.polygon.com/2017/1/12/14251842/guerrilla-cambridge-closed

Evolution Studios - 2016 following 2015 layoffs
http://au.ign.com/articles/2016/03/22/driveclub-studio-closed-down-by-sony

Psygnosis / Sony Liverpool - 2012 Layoffs and remaining staff merged into other studios
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-08-22-sony-closes-wipeout-developer-sony-liverpool-report

United States:

Zipper Interactive - 2012
www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2012/03/30/sony-closes-zipper-interactive.aspx

MMO Studios (3 of them) - 2011
https://www.kotaku.com.au/2011/04/sonys-mmo-studio-confirms-layoffs-closes-book-on-the-agency/

The UK is their favorite spot for axing studios lately. Like I'm saying above - I'd definitely hope that Dreams does well.

Deleted member 7462 · May 21, 2018

Riderz1337 said:
Difference between Sony and other publishers on display.

Sony seems interested in funding prestige games at a high budget in a way that even other companies who do some prestige titles do not. Ubi and EA aren't giving time and big budgets to their prestige stuff.

Typhon · May 21, 2018

Terraforce said:
Man, Sony is really the only developer/publisher who I've seen really go out of their way to support sinking ships and help bring out their fullest potential. Not to throw shade, but I'm not so sure MS would have done the same based on Scalebound.

Good on MM for being able to produce the product they've envisioned.

You can throw all the shade you want. MS hasn't had faith in its publishers for years.

Megatron · May 21, 2018

Unknown Soldier said:
They kept supporting The Last Guardian for over a decade? This isn't really out of the ordinary for Sony. They have shown a willingness to give creators time to realize their vision.

Jawbreaker said:
Thank you for believing in this title, Sony. It's looking amazing. I'm glad they allowed The Last Guardian to exist despite its long development time/console shift, too.

Datajoy said:
Games like this and The Last Guardian are a big part of why I respect Sony as a publisher. Anyone else would have axed the game and probably the studio.

Terraforce said:
Man, Sony is really the only developer/publisher who I've seen really go out of their way to support sinking ships and help bring out their fullest potential. Not to throw shade, but I'm not so sure MS would have done the same based on Scalebound.

Good on MM for being able to produce the product they've envisioned.

personally, I think the reason Sony is willing to support games like Dreams and the last guardian that almost certainly will not make a profit, is due to psplus subscriptions. Maybe something for people to remember in the next inevitable 'I can't believe Sony charges for online!' Thread....

HeisenbergWW62 · May 21, 2018

XolSec said:
Oh, this is for the Playstation 4

so was lawbreakers

i kid dreams will do well

Datajoy · May 21, 2018

Megatron said:
personally, I think the reason Sony is willing to support games like Dreams and the last guardian that almost certainly will not make a profit, is due to psplus subscriptions. Maybe something for people to remember in the next inevitable 'I can't believe Sony charges for online!' Thread....

At first I mis-read your post as "Sony only supported the development of The Last Guardian for so long because they wanted to increase PS Plus subs".

Riderz1337 · May 21, 2018

ThereAreFourNaan said:
So to follow up on the recent thread asking whether or not MM was in trouble if Dreams flops, this game being rebooted twice and effectively the only large scale project they've had since 2013 does not bode especially well for them. Tearaway Unfolded was a flop, and the original wasn't a hit either. They're a 50 person studio located in the United Kingdom, which is not the cheapest place to work nor somewhere that it's legally challenging to shutter studios. I would hope for strong sales.

They'll generally ship a game once announced, but they don't hesitate to shut down unprofitable studios, particularly in Europe or North America.

From the UK:

Guerilla Cambridge - 2017
https://www.polygon.com/2017/1/12/14251842/guerrilla-cambridge-closed

Evolution Studios - 2016 following 2015 layoffs
http://au.ign.com/articles/2016/03/22/driveclub-studio-closed-down-by-sony

Psygnosis / Sony Liverpool - 2012 Layoffs and remaining staff merged into other studios
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-08-22-sony-closes-wipeout-developer-sony-liverpool-report

United States:

Zipper Interactive - 2012
www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2012/03/30/sony-closes-zipper-interactive.aspx

MMO Studios (3 of them) - 2011
https://www.kotaku.com.au/2011/04/sonys-mmo-studio-confirms-layoffs-closes-book-on-the-agency/

The UK is their favorite spot for axing studios lately. Like I'm saying above - I'd definitely hope that Dreams does well.

Majority of those studios were closed after MULTIPLE failed games in terms of critical reception and/or sales.

Terraforce · May 21, 2018

Megatron said:
personally, I think the reason Sony is willing to support games like Dreams and the last guardian that almost certainly will not make a profit, is due to psplus subscriptions. Maybe something for people to remember in the next inevitable 'I can't believe Sony charges for online!' Thread....

If it can get us gems like TLG and Dreams, then I say double PS+ prices! (joking obviously please never do that Sony lol)

megalowho · May 21, 2018

Potentially an unpopular opinion, but I can't help but feel that MM would be a much more interesting studio if they created smaller, experimental passion projects on a regular basis instead of Sony giving them a huge amount of rope for one idea over an entire console generation.

Expy · May 21, 2018

That's what's called first party support.

That Naive Cube!! · May 21, 2018

Riderz1337 said:
Difference between Sony and other publishers on display.

While I get what you are trying to say, it is an (unfair and unrealistic) oversimplification.

Most studios just cannot afford this kind of development time and Sony can recoup their losses through various means that other publishers cannot.

Ploid 6.0 · May 21, 2018

The sequel should be called Nightmare. This game/creative tool looks amazing. I don't buy online PS4 games, but this is going to be hard to pass up on. Darn PS+ fee, I survived without it for years, had to happen eventually I guess... ahhhH!!!!

Just like youtube or easy access to cameras (phone) create directors and movie makers, I bet this will create game developers, from kids to adults. Oh man.

ThereAreFourNaan · May 21, 2018

Riderz1337 said:
Majority of those studios were closed after MULTIPLE failed games in terms of critical reception and/or sales.

Dreams flipping would be 3 in a row for commercial flops, hence they are not likely to survive that scenario.

noyram23 · May 21, 2018

ThereAreFourNaan said:
So to follow up on the recent thread asking whether or not MM was in trouble if Dreams flops, this game being rebooted twice and effectively the only large scale project they've had since 2013 does not bode especially well for them. Tearaway Unfolded was a flop, and the original wasn't a hit either. They're a 50 person studio located in the United Kingdom, which is not the cheapest place to work nor somewhere that it's legally challenging to shutter studios. I would hope for strong sales.

They'll generally ship a game once announced, but they don't hesitate to shut down unprofitable studios, particularly in Europe or North America.

From the UK:

Guerilla Cambridge - 2017
https://www.polygon.com/2017/1/12/14251842/guerrilla-cambridge-closed

Evolution Studios - 2016 following 2015 layoffs
http://au.ign.com/articles/2016/03/22/driveclub-studio-closed-down-by-sony

Psygnosis / Sony Liverpool - 2012 Layoffs and remaining staff merged into other studios
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-08-22-sony-closes-wipeout-developer-sony-liverpool-report

United States:

Zipper Interactive - 2012
www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2012/03/30/sony-closes-zipper-interactive.aspx

MMO Studios (3 of them) - 2011
https://www.kotaku.com.au/2011/04/sonys-mmo-studio-confirms-layoffs-closes-book-on-the-agency/

The UK is their favorite spot for axing studios lately. Like I'm saying above - I'd definitely hope that Dreams does well.

I think MM being a prestige studio with critically acclaimed titles on their belt on a genre without much competition helps a lot too. Studios above are on genre that aren't selling that much, too congested, and most of them produced rcent badly reviewed games. I won't be worried with MM but with Bend instead. Sony MO these day is to develop small devs (PixelOpus, Machester Studios) which has a potential to make it big if they produce good games.

Callibretto · May 21, 2018

Terraforce said:
If it can get us gems like TLG and Dreams, then I say double PS+ prices! (joking obviously please never do that Sony lol)

Maybe if they announce a high budget 3d Tokyo Jungle mmo, lol

Ridley327 · May 21, 2018

megalowho said:
Potentially an unpopular opinion, but I can't help but feel that MM would be a much more interesting studio if they created smaller, experimental passion projects on a regular basis instead of Sony giving them a huge amount of rope for one idea over an entire console generation.

They tried that with Tearaway, and the result was a game that found a way to flop on two different platforms. I feel like that put an early end to that notion.

Cyanity · May 21, 2018

I love that line about 1 minute in: (paraphrasing) "Dreams is kind of an ironic title, because to be honest, it was an absolute nightmare to make."

Kayo Police · May 21, 2018

*insert stupid meme of what do you even do in this game*

If Sony has this much faith, then I'm sure Dreams will be a quality title.

RecRoulette · May 21, 2018

Seeing stuff from Dreams has me feeling like I did when I was seeing stuff from Little Big Planet before that game came out. That game could be truly special.

Deleted member 11413 · May 21, 2018

People are forgetting that Media Molecule has remained a profitable studio throughout the entire development of Dreams. If they aren't losing money, there is no reason to close them.

Riderz1337 · May 21, 2018

ThereAreFourNaan said:
Dreams flipping would be 3 in a row for commercial flops, hence they are not likely to survive that scenario.

I highly doubt it will flop in terms of critical reception, just based on Media Molecules past games as well as the glowing praise it's getting in its previews.

In terms of sales, guess we will have to wait but I can def see this being something Sony bundles to not only sell the game but to boost hardware sales as well. Time will tell.

megalowho · May 21, 2018

Ridley327 said:
They tried that with Tearaway, and the result was a game that found a way to flop on two different platforms. I feel like that put an early end to that notion.

I would go even smaller than that. There were 3-4 ideas in Tearaway alone that could have been explored in a more contained form, and may have even excelled with production limits and not having to make them fit inside a platformer.

nightstalker962 · May 21, 2018

Little Big Planet was a straight cash cow for Sony, we'll see how Dreams does.

Ploid 6.0 · May 21, 2018

So, what series of levels will Era create? Something like Little Big Contra.

Flandy · May 21, 2018

ThereAreFourNaan said:
Dreams flipping would be 3 in a row for commercial flops, hence they are not likely to survive that scenario.

Whats their other flop? The only thing I can think of is Tearaway and that was a small team? LBP3 wasn't even developed by them

Dreams was rebooted twice but Sony continued supporting the title for over 6 years

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