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overcast

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,427
Am I wrong? Anywhere I'm missing where you can be basically carless? Not many options yet. LA is developing a subway system, but I heard LA has too much sprawl, similar to Houston.
If you live around downtown LA and live near where you work you can manage without a car probably. Most of LA's traffic comes because the "city" is just a potion of LA. LA is so sprawling it's ridiculous. Not to mention the commuter traffic from people who live in Long Beach, north of LA, South of LA (OC, Riverside County). Traffic is insane throughout Southern California honestly. Plagued this whole part of the state, a car is pretty vital to live here.
 

Mathieran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,861
I'm a millennial and have never bought a new car, nor will I ever. At best I would buy a 1-2 year old car. The value is much better.

I hope my kids want a driver's license though when it's appropriate. If they want to do uber and shit they are gonna be paying for it themselves.
 

ABC123

Member
Mar 1, 2019
107
??? They do it over the summer...

My high school had a semester of Driver's Ed too. If I remember correctly, it took the place of one semester of health/sex ed in sophomore year.

But back to the topic, I think it might be a bit early to say Gen Z is skipping out on cars. Since most people put the start of Gen Z in the mid to late 90s, the vast majority of them are still in high school and college. It's easy to skip out on cars in America at that age, but the fact of the matter is, it's nearly impossible to live in the USA without a car, even in urban areas. A lot of American cities were designed with the car in mind since most of their population booms came in the 20th century. Only a select few (mostly in the northeast) are old enough to have developed a walkable/transit friendly layout.
 

MMarston

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,605
Already in my mid-20s and I've let my learner's expire twice already at this point.

Unless my career and geography really require it -- and so far, it hasn't -- it's not worth putting into at the moment.
 

Biteren

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,607
Im almost 30 here in az and i dont have a car or licence. I take uber to wor and im perfectly comfortable with it. Im not sure if i can even afford a car with insurance
 

Cordy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,348
Hey that's cool with me. More time on the road for myself!

Personally I love driving around because it allows me to reflect while my system's turned all the way up. Since I do music it's just different listening that way compared to anywhere else. If I didn't have that then I wouldn't like driving as much.
 

TaySan

SayTan
Member
Dec 10, 2018
31,445
Tulsa, Oklahoma
Im almost 30 here in az and i dont have a car or licence. I take uber to wor and im perfectly comfortable with it. Im not sure if i can even afford a car with insurance
Do you live like Downtown PHX or maybe Tempe? That's the only way i can see that working unless you literally live right next to work. Buckeye=LOL nope on public transportation
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
Nah. Plenty of fairly well-off youngish/early middle age people who live in cities who understand how pointless owning a car is 99,9% of the time. That rest of 0,1% they can just take a taxi or pay for other kinds of professionals (movers and such). While those can be kinda expensive from a certain POV, buying, owning, using and maintaining a car dwarfs those expenses.

I'm not saying that it's not both, but there's still likely osmosis in the collective consciousness going on even with those who make it. The promise of the American Dream is known to be well dead.

https://www.google.ca/amp/nymag.com...-arent-post-consumerist-theyre-just-poor.html
 

Raw64life

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,983
I only have a car because I need it to get to work. I put up with it because I have to.

I wouldn't mind saving up for and spending a lot of money on a nice car if things like gas, insurance and maintenance weren't things that existed. It's a neverending money drain. I've gotten hand-me-downs my whole life and dread the day when I need to actually purchase a car from a dealership myself if and when that day comes.
 

TheBeardedOne

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,189
Derry
Driving can be fun, and it's something I generally enjoy. But gas is disgustingly expensive and cars are incredibly expensive too. Insurance to begin with.
 

WedgeX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,193
Gen Z, please deliver us from this mass transit lacking-hellhole the Silent Generation and Baby Boomers wrought for us.
 

Zona

Member
Oct 27, 2017
461
I didn't bother getting my license until I was 19, and if I lived in NYC instead of Long Island I'd ditch my car in a heartbeat. As it is 90% of the time I only drive it to work or to get groceries, and then only if I'm stocking up on food. I'll happily walk the 15-20 mins to the store if I just need a few things and the weathers nice.

Then again I've always hated driving. Especially on Long Island. Traffic, traffic as far as the eye can see!
 

Failburger

Banned
Dec 3, 2018
2,455
I used to be the 'taxi' of the group cause I'm too dumb/nice and always offer to take the group to events. That ended when I got a parking ticket and nobody wanted to help pay it off, despite being told by them that parking there is fine and nobody gets a ticket parking there.

So I started taking the train to such events and it's much easier and convenient. If I lived and work in the city proper, I wouldn't own a car. Sadly I'm stuck in suburban hell to fully escape owning a car.
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
I would probably not own a car if I didn't need it to get to work. But my job is at a very unwalkable and unbikeable location.
 

Flame Lord

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,796
  • Gen Z is showing a marked disinterest in obtaining a license. They are delaying it.
  • When they do buy, they opt for used vehicles, something automakers are wary of
  • They prefer compact cars and sedans over SUVs. These less profitable for automakers.
  • Many are fine using ride sharing services such as Uber/Lyft
  • Student loans, entry level jobs in urban areas, where public transit is better, is also affecting this shift.
  • States are cutting driver's ed courses, so students either need available and patient parents or take expensive classes.

Well, those parts are me. I wasn't in a rush to get my license, mostly because I couldn't see being able to afford a car, and even though I now have one (used) I seriously can't see myself ever having a new car, because they're fucking high. Also I put MPG above pretty much everything so I know I'll never own a big ass SUV or anything like that.
 

Seirith

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,311
I love my SUV, I would never live in a city so I need a car. I don't mind driving either- great time to listen to music, talk to my passenger and see cool sights along the road. I got my permit at 16 and license and first car at 17.

I just totally do not see the appeal of cities, at all.
 
OP
OP
entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,096
If you live around downtown LA and live near where you work you can manage without a car probably. Most of LA's traffic comes because the "city" is just a potion of LA. LA is so sprawling it's ridiculous. Not to mention the commuter traffic from people who live in Long Beach, north of LA, South of LA (OC, Riverside County). Traffic is insane throughout Southern California honestly. Plagued this whole part of the state, a car is pretty vital to live here.
Oh you're counting LA county?

Yeah that's massive area lol.
 

Ogodei

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,256
Coruscant
Regarding the US metro areas with decent public transport, let me see:

NYC Metro is the top--Multiple Commuter rail, subway, and buses
DC is next
Chicago is up there
SF/Bay Area
Boston
Philly

That's it really.

Am I wrong? Anywhere I'm missing where you can be basically carless? Not many options yet. LA is developing a subway system, but I heard LA has too much sprawl, similar to Houston.

DC's infamous for breakdowns and repairs. Namely that there's no redundancy in the rail system so if a train is stopped because somebody got sick, for instance, the whole system slows to a crawl because now the trains in both directions have to share a single rail and that has knock-on effects throughout the lines. It's also fairly pricey. Ridership has been going down pretty consistently for the last decade because the system's also hella inconvenient if you don't live close to a station, both costly and inaccessible.
 

Saifu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,881
Too many asshole drivers.
I can't wait until self driving cars become mainstream.
 

turbobrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,081
Phoenix, AZ
Buying a car in that age group has also gotten a lot more difficult.

Fewer teenagers have summer jobs/jobs while in school now.

Entry level/beater cars prices have also jumped up a lot.

As someone who browses used cars on craigslist like once a week, there's still plenty of good cheap cars available.

Good. Schools are already trying to teach kids too much. Throwing in a driving curriculum takes up valuable curriculum space.

At my school, drivers-ed was an optional class. I took it though because it lowered my insurance. That and I would put it in the valuable curriculum category, since most people drive. More useful than something boring and useless like history.

Phoenix? Walk-able? Unless you can do something about the sun, idk, you basically get heatstroke just from going outside for longer than 10 minutes in the summer.

This. I live in phoenix and wouldn't want to walk anywhere in the summer months. In the summer I drive to my friends house when I could get there in 2 minutes on a bike.
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,916
Just comes down to cost (including ownership and insurance). If you can't afford a new one and don't want to up with the sometimes finicky used market, why bother?

Im almost 30 here in az and i dont have a car or licence. I take uber to wor and im perfectly comfortable with it. Im not sure if i can even afford a car with insurance

I'm 30 with no car payment and my insurance on a beater is $30 a month in AZ. At least get your license so it's an option.
 

Geist

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,579
26, no license. Might have to get one if I move to Phoenix since I hear public transit isn't the best (and its extremely spread out), but I'm still going to try to hold out as long as possible.
 

bry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,295
23, No license.
Plan on getting it before my permit expires I guess

I took driving classes a while back, I just need more practice
 

Biteren

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,607
Do you live like Downtown PHX or maybe Tempe? That's the only way i can see that working unless you literally live right next to work. Buckeye=LOL nope on public transportation
I live south of downtown like way near laveen. Public transport would be a hassle since both routes put me a sizable walking distance to my house after work. And i get out late from work and dont like the bus rides at night.
 

Hypron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,059
NZ
I'm still on my restricted license (can drive by myself or under supervision but can't drive other people) even though I've been eligible to pass my full license for like 8 years... I don't own a car and I live in a city centre so there's no need for one to begin with.
 

UnluckyKate

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,546
Just chalk up American car culture as another generational phenomena that boomers will desperately cling to and rail against younger generations for largely abandoning.

It doesn't help that America always made terrible cars that only Americans cling to... There is a reason why we don't see Americans cars outside North America..
 

Vilam

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,055
Cars are a money sink. If my country had a transportation system worth a damn I'd use it over being bothered by horrible drivers and traffic.

Public transportation is a time sink. I'll happily pay money to gain time, convenience, and freedom. Not being around the general public is an additional perk.
 

Tbm24

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,315
Just sounds like younger adults are content with doing less things overall. Car gave me massive freedom despite living in NYC. I don't drive to work, so I mostly use it in the evening and weekends. I like to get away from the city after the work week, often drive deep in Long Island and upstate to go hiking. These aren't realistic things to just Uber/Lyft to whenever.
 

wenis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,111
I've already abandoned all preconceptions of driving or owning a car. I don't even have a license nor do I plan on getting one either.

Just sounds like younger adults are content with doing less things overall. Car gave me massive freedom despite living in NYC. I don't drive to work, so I mostly use it in the evening and weekends. I like to get away from the city after the work week, often drive deep in Long Island and upstate to go hiking. These aren't realistic things to just Uber/Lyft to whenever.

No but it is possible to just rent a car for the weekend or make it a group trip.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,722
I have yet to meet anyone in Europe who would own a brand new car and isn't essentially already mid- or end-career either. They're too damn expensive, and public transport (unlike the US) is actually good here.
These days the private lease plans are actually cheaper too, despite a credit record that comes with it. But a 5000 euro loan versus a 30k minimum car is always going to favor the loan. But basically these things exist to prop up car sales that should be declining anyway since no starter can afford a new car, or a house.
 

CthulhuSars

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,906
Im almost 30 here in az and i dont have a car or licence. I take uber to wor and im perfectly comfortable with it. Im not sure if i can even afford a car with insurance

I cannot imagine being without a car in Phoenix. Awesome that you can make it work as I would ditch a car if it were not for my job and kid.
 

TheBryanJZX90

Member
Nov 29, 2017
3,018
Eh, I'm talking mainly about American car culture as defined by the fifties and sixties, really. As far far as i can see the amount of americans tooling around with cars in their own garages has not been increasing since those times. I see this new shift in perspective as just the latest manifestation of the of the ever shrinking mindshare of American car mythology.
That's also because as cars get less mechanical and more computer controlled, the amount of maintenance and repair that an individual owner can realistically do has gone way down.
 

Deleted member 34788

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 29, 2017
3,545
Eh, stop making new cars so fucking expensive and you'll have a larger amount of people, young old whatever, buying them.

Im shocked just how much prices have jumped over the past 5-10 years for cars. I mean even via finance the costs simply aren't worth it for a majority of cars anymore. Too many trims and too many attempts by car makers to nuke your wallet.

I just stick to used cars, really is no point getting s new one unless its a hybrid or an electric car.
 

Deleted member 41502

User requested account closure
Banned
Mar 28, 2018
1,177
I turn 40 this week and we got rid of our cars 2 years ago. Big city though, and not in the US, and we live fairly close to work. I hate driving anymore.