Driving? The Kids Are So Over It (WSJ)

[Patrick Bateman]

I bought a car for an internship. I'd really like to get back to using public transportation.
I'm just driving a car because the route sucks via public transportation.
For me those 30-40 minutes each trip are wasted time of my life. Traffic jams, other stupid people on the road who can't drive are just annoying. Also wasting fuel as a single person in a car feels dumb.

 

[nanskee]

Sounds about right. I just got my license at 24 and I don't care about new cars and big SUVs, get me a small hatchback car that's fuel efficienct. I'm actually thinking of maybe getting a Volkswagen eventually. I like their car models

Barely give a shit about cars though

 

[Deleted member 8852]

I take public transportation when I can, but sometimes it just isn't efficient.

As example, the commute I took to one of the clients I was working with for a few months went from 3 hours a day to 40 minutes a day when I switched from taking the metro/bus to going by car.

Yet my current client is 25 minutes by train, but close to 45 minutes by car. It all depends on where I need to be, so having the flexibility of having a license is pretty important.

 

[Zulith]

just stand up, air out your pants and move somewhere else

it's not a big deal

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I don't expect Scrooge McDuck to appreciate the struggles of us commoners. If only it were that easy.

You may as well have been slimed in ectoplasm like in Ghostbusters, as it clings just as well. We're not talking BO here or a little dust. More along the line of dumpster diving for 8 hours a day for weeks without changing. It usually involves enough dampness (if not straight up liquid) so it really sticks to you. And no, you can't always tell before sitting in such a seat; not all filth is visible to the eye at a glance ya know. Even close inspection may fail, especially in seats with cloth-like or spongy material.

Sure, you learn a lot of tricks to avoid a lot of the inconveniences of public transit, but calamities such as this are bound to occur to you in a major city given a long enough timeline. Especially to newcomers. And even this scenario is fairly mild compared to a lot of things you could be faced with. Violence and theft (often in combination) isn't all that rare.

At least Ubers have incentive to keep their seats clean. Not that they have to deal with a lot of clients on that level anyhow, as most of them are chronic fare evaders who wouldn't want to pay Uber prices.

I say all of this to illustrate that I understand those who would prefer to drive themselves than use public transit. Personally, I still go public transit for a lot of reasons. But the fact is that yeah, you do deal with a lot... at least in the USA. I envy countries where people know how to behave and treat property that they don't own.

 

[Deleted member 4044]

I take public transportation when I can, but sometimes it just isn't efficient.

As example, the commute I took to one of the clients I was working with for a few months went from 3 hours a day to 40 minutes a day when I switched from taking the metro/bus to going by car.

Yet my current client is 25 minutes by train, but close to 45 minutes by car. It all depends on where I need to be, so having the flexibility of having a license is pretty important.

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Yup, this is a huge point. I went 13 years without a car in Philadelphia before moving out to the burbs and having to get one. When I was in the city, it worked really well. But the way transit is set up here, going from suburban county to suburban county via public transit would take 3 hours because every train line has to go into the city - there's no ring line around the perimeter.

There's also the last mile problem for reverse commuting, where its hard to get from the train station to your work place in a suburban office park. A lot of companies now run shuttles but that still isn't flexible enough.

 

[nanskee]

Also it sucks when you crash and have to pay 2,000 dollars. I'm so lucky that I didn't have to deal with insurance and that I crashed into an old car, cause it could've been way more. But that shit basically put me off driving for two years, went back to loving my bus rides.

That was a good chunk of my savings.

 

[Eric_S]

Nobody needs a car. Until they need to go some remote place, buy that cool cupboard at ikea, need to be pickup from the airport, move to another house or go on vacation somewhere with family and pets. Then suddenly a car is very much appreciated.

Public transportation, even in big cities, can only get you so far.

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I'm spoiled with the quality of public transportation where I am. But surely most of those points can be solved by buying services, or just renting a car once you need it?

Or does things look differently from where you're from?

 

[Psamtik]

I live in a rural area, a half-hour from everything, and a car's more or less mandatory in that situation.

Nickel-and-diming yourself on rideshares for every errand and/or commute to work doesn't seem cost-efficient, either.

Just buy a used one. My first three cars were between $500 and $1,000 each.

 

[thewienke]

Has the trend of helicopter parenting ever been cited as one factor in this? I can kinda imagine some parents not wanting their kids driving until after their 18 because they're used to a certain level of control and oversight.

Or is it that millennial parents are just too fucking broke to buy their kids a car? Loads of kids got used Hondas for a few thousand each about 20 years ago. Can't see them going for nearly that cheap now.

 

[swift-darius]

I'm 27. I don't know how to drive, and I've never been behind the wheel. I also live in a city with wonderful transport infrastructure (madrid) and have been using public transport across europe my whole life. the sound of going into debt to own a vehicle which I couldn't even park without spending more amounts of stupid money, and which wouldn't really change my life or benefit me in any way (beyond maybe enabling more hiking) is insane. I probably should learn and get a license, just in case, but like... car culture sucks. it's also environmentally irresponsible and something I don't really want to support

frankly, it just makes NO sense in a young urban european lifestyle to own a car

 

[Capra]

Cars are a money sink, and people are shitheads on the road. Personally speaking, if I can walk, take public transit, or get a ride to wherever I need to go I do it.

Old people who grew up surrounded by a culture of car-worship will never understand why their children would choose to not drive though so add it to the ever-growing list of reasons why we're destroying the foundations of society with our life-choices.

 

[bruhh]

1. Owning a car
2. Ride sharing apps
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89. Trash public transport (buses - lol)

 

[Tiny Chihuahueño]

I'm spoiled with the quality of public transportation where I am. But surely most of those points can be solved by buying services, or just renting a car once you need it?

Or does things look differently from where you're from?

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Live in a small town like 17km away from a big city. Public transportation is limited to one bus each hour, Taxis are hyper expensive and I don't think Uber and the like even knows my town exists. No subway either, well we have a train but you need a car to go there in the first place. If it wasn't for my car, I couldn't go anywhere or do anything without a lot of trouble/relying on shitty public transportation.

 

[Eric_S]

Live in a small town like 17km away from a big city. Public transportation is limited to one bus each hour, Taxis are hyper expensive and I don't think Uber and the like even knows my town exists. No subway either, well we have a train but you need a car to go there in the first place. If it wasn't for my car, I couldn't go anywhere or do anything without a lot of trouble/relying on shitty public transportation.

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Oh I can absolutely see that. Not to mention folks who live in truly rural areas needing personal transportation for their life, let alone quality of life.

 

[shnurgleton]

we all live in cities and when you live in a city owning a car is a pain in the ass

 

[higemaru]

I have put off getting a car for so long because paying the insurance every month is another bill I can't afford between rent, student loans, and paying to live. It really sucks too since I'm out in the philly suburbs where it's difficult to get around, even with the bus (which is rarely on schedule). Thought about getting a used car but the amount of money you have to spend on gas and upkeep just makes me think it's not worth it. It's a financial sinkhole.

Still don't want one and I'm trying to move into a city that can accommodate that. Philadelphia is pretty good for pedestrians and bikers so I think I'll be good but not having a car severely limits my options, although I'll be clear, I have my license and used to drive a lot.

 

[Slash Ess]

I honestly couldn't IMAGINE living in a place that basically requires you to get a car. I'm keeping my butt to the four No

I live in a rural area, a half-hour from everything, and a car's more or less mandatory in that situation.

Nickel-and-diming yourself on rideshares for every errand and/or commute to work doesn't seem cost-efficient, either.

Just buy a used one. My first three cars were between $500 and $1,000 each.

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This is CAD, but the cost of a monthly transit pass is like max $150.

I can get everything I need out of that without having to worry about the costs of gas, Insurance, service and repair, and even driving school which is also super pricey.

No car wins out no matter how you slice it tbh

 

[Tanerian]

Depending on how often you leave the house, ride share can be much more affordable than owning a car and paying payments.
Prices get outrageous. Everything from monthly payments, repairs, new tires, registrations, insurance.. etc.

Bunch of 18 year olds making 10$ an hr can't afford that shit. And their parents making 15$ an hour can't either.

 

[GatsGatsby]

I got my licence when I was 24 had my drivers permit for years but my mom wouldnt take me to get the licence because she was convinced if I had my own car I'd take off and she'd never see me again. Little did she know I found a way around that just took one train ride to Florida lived there with my ex for almost 2 years when I came back I had a drivers license and his car.

I need a car granted I really just use it for work but I live in the country and its 20 minute drive from there to work. If I were to plan any trips I'll gladly rent a car to keep the stress off mine and also to drive the new cars I'll never be able to afford.

My sister is going to be 37 this year she doesnt have her license.

 

[Mechanized]

Shit costs money.

 

[Xiaomi]

I mean I pay about $400 US a month for transportation. That's taxis, trains, and high speed rail. If I lease a car it would be $350 US a month for 3 years, buying would be about $700 a month for 2 years, plus insurance, license plate, apartment parking spot, gas, inspection, and maintenance. It just doesn't save you any money here.

 

[Piston]

I've needed a car in most of the places I live. That said, I plan on using my car well past paying it off and will only get a new one once electric cars become viable in a mainstream way outside of California and the Pacific Northwest. Preferably there would be proficient self-driving cars as well.

 

[Keyouta]

Town here is 500km away from the closest city, so I have to stick with a car. Did 3 year financing on it so at least that'll be paid off pretty quickly. I could bus and have done it but I can't carry shit from Costco for example, and the dog, easily like that.

 

[Mulciber]

Where I grew up was rural as fuck, so this is wild to me sort of internally, but I'm sure it makes complete sense in a city. I do think, though, that if I had to rely solely on someone/thing for transportation (ie: rideshare, public transport, etc.), I would be far less inclined to leave the house. Just based on the way my brain works. (Or doesn't work, haha.)

But, for example, the closest place of business (which was just a 7/11) to my house where I lived when I was 16 was over 3 miles. My town had absolutely zero methods of travel other than whatever you could provide yourself. Off the top of my head, I couldn't name a single person I went to school with who didn't get their license immediately at 16.

 

[Smokey]

Try this in Houston.

 

[Deleted member 4044]

Where I grew up was rural as fuck, so this is wild to me sort of internally, but I'm sure it makes complete sense in a city. I do think, though, that if I had to rely solely on someone/thing for transportation (ie: rideshare, public transport, etc.), I would be far less inclined to leave the house. Just based on the way my brain works. (Or doesn't work, haha.)

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You would be surprised at how quickly this will change. Not relying on a car is extremely freeing - you don't worry about keeping it filled up with gas, where to park it, maintenance, etc. You live in a major city and want to go out to eat? You walk there, catch a subway/bus or take rideshare.

 

[mbpm]

Well I love driving, but I'm using my parents cars, so I imagine cost and such might make me change my mind if I had to get my own. There's just nothing quite like being able to just go.

 

[Mulciber]

You would be surprised at how quickly this will change. Not relying on a car is extremely freeing - you don't worry about keeping it filled up with gas, where to park it, maintenance, etc. You live in a major city and want to go out to eat? You walk there, catch a subway/bus or take rideshare.

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I suppose you are probably right about that. To me the mental hurdle would be right now if I want to go somewhere, I just go. In that scenario, I'd have to deal with another person (cab/rideshare), and also wait times, unless I coincidentally walked up as the bus/subway arrived. But yeah, I'd probably adapt in time.

After all, I did make a pretty big mental shift when I went to college (although sort of in the opposite direction). We didn't have an restaurants (or theaters, etc) open for dinner in my home town, so my family would frequently drive an hour both ways just to, say, go out to eat. After living in an actual city, that mental math shifted considerably.

 

[Big-E]

Kids make it not practical even with transit options.

 

[Granadier]

I gave up my car 3 years ago when I moved to the east coast and it's the best feeling. Not having to worry about parking, insurance, car payments, maintenance, repairs, etc. is extremely liberating.

Plus you never have to worry about how you're getting home after a night out drinking.

 

[SturokBGD]

This is CAD, but the cost of a monthly transit pass is like max $150.

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Haha no. I wish.

If you live in the suburbs but work in the city you're paying hundreds a month in Toronto.

 

[Deleted member 26398]

The only reason I got my license was my dad pressuring me to do it. The last time I drove a car was 5 years ago when I passed my driving test.

 

[RoKKeR]

If I didn't live in a city with such shit public transit (ATL) I wouldn't have one. I didn't for a year but was way too constrained by it so I got one. That said I do like having my car so I don't have a problem with paying for it.

 

[captive]

Cries in Houstonian

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Regarding the US metro areas with decent public transport, let me see:

NYC Metro is the top--Multiple Commuter rail, subway, and buses
DC is next
Chicago is up there
SF/Bay Area
Boston
Philly

That's it really.

Am I wrong? Anywhere I'm missing where you can be basically carless? Not many options yet. LA is developing a subway system, but I heard LA has too much sprawl, similar to Houston.

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mass transit is so hit or miss in Houston.
We have the bus system, which seems to go lots of places. I rode it in Highschool, there were two different lines that could get me from shepherd and memorial to my parents house near bellaire.

The park and rid is great, if you work in downtown or the med center, but getting to the park and ride requires a car or riding a different bus. Or live or work near the train system in the med center or downtown. Other than that, not great.

 

[meowdi gras]

My boyfriend's youngest son is a couple months from turning 21. He finally got his license only a few months ago, after hanging onto his learners forever. He has his own car to drive that he got from his mom. Yet, he almost never drives it. If he has to meet his dad somewhere to carpool, he always has his dad drive his car, while he rides shotgun. He seems content with just the Internet for his freedom.

I guess I can kind of relate. Having been raised in the Atlanta suburbs like him, it sucks ass to always have to depend on having a car to get around. Following a nervous breakdown a few years ago and running into serious financial trouble, I sold my Mazda to my bestie/housemate, who's been happy to let me use it whenever I need to. Between her and my boyfriend, I seldom have issues getting anywhere I need to go these days. Car ownership can suck it.

 

[Aiustis]

This has been going on for quite some time...I first heard of it when I was still a teen. You either had that one friend with a license, your parents or the bus. And now ride share services make it easier. I got my license at 29

 

[lunarworks]

I didn't get my licence until I was 29. Living in the Toronto area it was easy to get around with a combination of bike, local transit, and regional transit.

I don't currently have a car because insurance is waaaay too expensive in my neighbourhood, $350+ month, and we seem to be getting around fine without it. I really do miss going on day trips, though.

 

[mute]

I mean yeah. I'd rather ride in something doing the driving for me while I read/play Switch/whatever.

I can't do that because I live in suburban sprawl, but that is the ideal.

 

[Slash Ess]

Haha no. I wish.

If you live in the suburbs but work in the city you're paying hundreds a month in Toronto.

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Feel free to actually do the math yourself, but a TTC metropass alone costs the same as car insurance. Add on all the additional costs of owning a vehicle (parking, gas) and you'll see that there's no way you're not saving money by taking transit.

This is facts

 

[nightstalker962]

Living in the suburbs and working in an office park x miles away pretty much requires you to own a car.

 

[robot]

I didn't get my license until I was 19, then didn't buy my first car until my late 20s and it was a used cheap one. I don't use ride shares but take the bus everywhere I can. Can't wait until automation takes over and we can eliminate the biggest cause of accidental death in the country.

 

[TheGhost]

That's so weird, as soon as I was 16 I was driving. I couldn't wait to get on the road.

 

[TheWooniestWoona]

Here in Kansas City there's no way to really operate without a car. The city is so spread out, and there's not a ton in the way of public transportation if you're outside of downtown. Even if I wanted to take the bus, there's not a route that goes to where I work, and the nearest stop near my house is about a mile away.

 

[Zoe]

I got my license at 17 but didn't really start driving until I was 22. Didn't have money for a car, and I could either bum rides off of people or take the bus to and from school.

As much as I would like to use public transportation more (I live walking distance from the train), it's the last 5K of the commute that kills it. Even with a bike, the neighborhood I work in isn't good for pedestrians and there are roaming packs of dogs that like to charge cars.

Once I get a new car, I'm kind of tempted to leave my old one at the Park and Ride though.

 

[Deleted member 1476]

There are no $500, $1000, $2000 clunkers here. If you want to buy a car you must be prepared to pay a lot for one, so yeah, many people I know won't bother. Transit service is decent and ride sharing apps just made everything way more convenient.

 

[Jeffolation]

Nothing cranks my anxiety to the max like having to drive downtown. Driving/car ownership in general fucking sucks and I hate it with a fervent passion.

 

[SturokBGD]

Feel free to actually do the math yourself, but a TTC metropass alone costs the same as car insurance. Add on all the additional costs of owning a vehicle (parking, gas) and you'll see that there's no way you're not saving money by taking transit.

This is facts

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Not arguing that, I'm saying it's funny that you say transit pass costs $150 but for those of us out in the 'burbs it's more like $350 on our Presto every month just for weekday GO trips.

 

[DOT_mjo]

Cost aside, I never understood how most HS and college kids around me had little to no care to ever drive or own a car. Being stuck somewhere and having to rely on someone else or to have to pay for an Uber fucking blows.

 

[Omegasquash]

I bought one when I was 15 so that I could start driving at 16. Had a job, parents wanted me to have a car to get to work and school. Also hauled my little brother around, and lived in the sticks.

My kids don't live in the sticks, but I'd be surprised if they wanted one. I don't see a need for one when they're in college, especially if they school in an area with robust public transit. And cell coverage, because Lyft.

 

[Poppy]

cars suck ass and i am lucky to be able to live in such a way that i havent used my car in over a year now

walk life