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Dynamax has been banned in competitive community Smogon OU Singles after an 87% supermajority vote.

Thorn

Thorn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
24,446
I don't pay much attention to the community scene for Pokemon but this seems pretty big considering Dynamax was THE gameplay mechanic for SwSh.

Explanation here.

Dynamaxing provides Pokémon with an increase to their maximum HP... up to 100%. Dynamaxed Pokémon are immune to flinching. They are immune to moves affected by weight. They cannot be switched out by moves such as Dragon Tail or Whirlwind, but they can switch out through Emergency Exit. Dynamaxed Pokémon cannot have their Ability modified by moves such as Entrainment and Skill Swap
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Man, it makes Mega Evolutions look like nothing in comparison.

While this isn't from OFFICIAL tournaments, Smogen has been running tournaments since before Pokemon had online play or ran anything close to official tournaments.
 
Sandfox

Sandfox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,743
This was obviously going to happen. The Smogon community wanted the mechanic gone from day one and it was just a matter of voting on it.
 
Ramsay

Ramsay

Member
Jul 2, 2019
3,621
Australia
Good riddance. This has to be one of the most broken mechanics I've ever seen in any multiplayer game. Every Gen 8 OU match I've seen or played seemingly ended up with either a Dynamax sweep, or Ditto reverse-sweeping.
 
Blade24070

Blade24070

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,982
I think being 3 turns only was supposed to make it balanced compared to megas but it seems to not have been anywhere near enough.
 
RochHoch

RochHoch

One Winged Slayer
Member
May 22, 2018
18,863
Good, Dynamax is awful.

They even put incredibly dumb, arbitrary limitations on how it functions, too. Like, in addition to all of the steamrolling and stupid stuff that it can do, you literally just aren't allowed to use weight-based moves like Heavy Slam on Dynamaxed Pokemon, which is just another layer of BS that you'll run into from time-to-time.
 
CommandThrower

CommandThrower

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,121
I think this is not surprising, ultimately. There's a lot of mechanical nuances to Dynamax that make it even more ridiculous than Mega Pokemon. The way that Choice items work with Dynamax is outrageous. You aren't restricted to one move, and you still get the stat buffs that the Choice items offer! And even when Dynamax ends, you can still re-choose the move you want to use!


I'd gladly welcome a return of Megas in a Gen 4 remake. I hope we see them.
 
Sandfox

Sandfox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,743
RochHoch said:
Good, Dynamax is awful.

They even put incredibly dumb, arbitrary limitations on how it functions, too. Like, in addition to all of the steamrolling and stupid stuff that it can do, you literally just aren't allowed to use weight-based moves like Heavy Slam on Dynamaxed Pokemon, which is just another layer of BS that you'll run into from time-to-time.
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in lore Dynamax Pokemon are just projections, which is why weight based moves don't work on them.
 

Deleted member 3465

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,240
Space
I actually had no idea weight-based moves had no effect... how does that make any sense? Seems like a way to make that mechanic more interesting and balanced anyways. I don't remember weight moves being too common either
 
Sandfox

Sandfox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,743
CommandThrower said:
I think this is not surprising, ultimately. There's a lot of mechanical nuances to Dynamax that make it even more ridiculous than Mega Pokemon. The way that Choice items work with Dynamax is outrageous. You aren't restricted to one move, and you still get the stat buffs that the Choice items offer! And even when Dynamax ends, you can still re-choose the move you want to use!


I'd gladly welcome a return of Megas in a Gen 4 remake. I hope we see them.
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I wouldn't get my hopes up and GF probably won't make any decisions based on what Smogon does.
 
Clay

Clay

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,107
Is just not fun? Or is it a balancing thing? I'm guessing the former since both players get to to use it.

I don't follow competitive Pokemon at all but I'm a little surprised, I would have thought Dynamaxing would have less of an impact than Mega-Evolving since it only lasts for 3 turns.
 
HylianSeven

HylianSeven

Shin Megami TC - Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,995
Good, it's a bad gimmick and not a good mechanic. It just feels like a poor man's mega evolution.

Now I wish they would do it in ranked matchmaking, but I know that's never happening
 
Illusion

Illusion

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,407
The fact Dynamax Pokemon are practically 3 turns where you can practically use moves just as strong as a Z-Move makes this a no-brainer. Not to mention it's practically like a Mega-Evolution, but you can also hold an item as well which was one of the smaller nerfs for Mega Evolutions in general.

Dynamax is just too broken to be considered for competition.
 

Deleted member 23212

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
11,225
How big is competitive Pokemon? I hear people mention it, but like what are the viewer numbers, prize pools, tournaments, etc. like?
 
seeds

seeds

Member
Jun 25, 2019
548
Oheao said:
How big is competitive Pokemon? I hear people mention it, but like what are the viewer numbers, prize pools, tournaments, etc. like?
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I don't know the numbers but it's worth noting that this ban applies to Smogon's fan metagame. The official vgc metagame is 4v4 doubles rather than 6v6 singles and it's very different. Dynamax was very clearly balanced for that metagame and not single battles
 
FSLink

FSLink

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,261
Clay said:
Is just not fun? Or is it a balancing thing? I'm guessing the former since both players get to to use it.

I don't follow competitive Pokemon at all but I'm a little surprised, I would have thought Dynamaxing would have less of an impact than Mega-Evolving since it only lasts for 3 turns.
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It's both. The mechanic is just really shallow in 6v6, and it's way stronger than Megas overall.

Choice items not locking you into one move but still giving you the bonuses while Dynamax'd is incredibly stupid.

Looking at VGC stuff though it seems like the mechanic works fine in there.
 
Sandfox

Sandfox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,743
HylianSeven said:
Good, it's a bad gimmick and not a good mechanic. It just feels like a poor man's mega evolution.

Now I wish they would do it in ranked matchmaking, but I know that's never happening
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Dynamax has actually been well revived in the official format and you have notable players saying it's better for the format than both Z-Moves and Megas, so it's not getting banned or changed anytime soon.
 
ryan13ts

ryan13ts

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,096
It was needed, Dynamax is just ridiculous and I honestly can't understand what GF was thinking by making it so broken. They obviously just threw any kind of concern with balancing or competitive viability out the window.
 
OP
OP
Thorn

Thorn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
24,446
ryan13ts said:
It was needed, Dynamax is just ridiculous and I honestly can't understand what GF was thinking by making it so broken. They obviously just threw any kind of concern with balancing or competitive viability out the window.
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"LOOK AT HOW COOL THESE BIG POKEMON ARE" was probably the only mindset that went into it.
 

Cromat

Member
Mar 17, 2019
677
This mechanic doesn't work in 6vs6 Singles whatsoever. The whole format is about maneuvering around your opponent through switching and predicting switches correctly. It doesn't work if each Pokemon can transform into a juggernaut at any point and just steamroll the other team.

Luckily Dynamax send much more manageable in VGC Doubles which is the official competitive format. It seems like this is Gamefreaks way of killing singles...
 
FSLink

FSLink

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,261
Cromat said:
This mechanic doesn't work in 6vs6 Singles whatsoever. The whole format is about maneuvering around your opponent through switching and predicting switches correctly. It doesn't work if each Pokemon can transform into a juggernaut at any point and just steamroll the other team.

Luckily Dynamax send much more manageable in VGC Doubles which is the official competitive format. It seems like this is Gamefreaks way of killing singles...
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I wish there were more 2v2s in-game to help people get used to the format if that's what they want to do.
 
Brawly Likes to Brawl

Brawly Likes to Brawl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,045
Ryohei Suzuki's bedroom
Cyanity said:
What does this even mean????

edit - as someone who doesn't play pokemon
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there are some attacks in Pokemon that calculate damage based on how much the target's weight is (each Pokemon has a canonical weight), like Low Kick does more damage the more heavy its target is, Heavy Slam does more damage based on the User's weight, etc. Dynamax Pokemon can't be hit at all by these moves.
 
Clay

Clay

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,107
HylianSeven said:
Good, it's a bad gimmick and not a good mechanic. It just feels like a poor man's mega evolution.

Now I wish they would do it in ranked matchmaking, but I know that's never happening
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As a casual player I far prefer Dynamax to Mega Evolutions. Megas felt like they deprived a lot of fan-favorites from getting proper evolutions, while the Dynamax forms just feel like cool variants.
 
RochHoch

RochHoch

One Winged Slayer
Member
May 22, 2018
18,863
Clay said:
Is just not fun? Or is it a balancing thing? I'm guessing the former since both players get to to use it.

I don't follow competitive Pokemon at all but I'm a little surprised, I would have thought Dynamaxing would have less of an impact than Mega-Evolving since it only lasts for 3 turns.
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It's extremely overpowered and makes it super easy to pretty much win the match by default if you get the right set-up.

Moves like Max Knuckle and Max Airstream can be used to let you set-up to sweep your opponent's entire team with ease, and they do a ton of damage on top of that. It's ridiculous.
 
GonzoCR

GonzoCR

Member
Oct 28, 2017
304
Yeah, it really comes as no surprise. Honestly just the fact that Ditto is like top 10 in usage was really not a good sign.
 

Deleted member 35077

Self-requested ban
Banned
Dec 1, 2017
3,999
I'm laughing at the people who said this was a more balance mechanic than mega evolution because every pokemon can use it. Nah, that just means more people will use it on the actual good pokemon instead of the ones in PU tier.
 
Sandfox

Sandfox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,743
People really tend to ignore the official format when discussing stuff like this lol. GF doesn't care about Smogon and the mechanic wasn't balanced around their format.

Castile said:
I'm laughing at the people who said this was a more balance mechanic than mega evolution because every pokemon can use it. Nah, that just means more people will use it on the actual good pokemon instead of the ones in PU tier.
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It is more balanced than megas in VGC.
 
Busaiku

Busaiku

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,371
Blade24070 said:
I think being 3 turns only was supposed to make it balanced compared to megas but it seems to not have been anywhere near enough.
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It is balanced.
You cannot use multi-hit attacks, thus leaving yourself more vulnerable.
Especially with Indeedee and Togekiss and Ally Switch everywhere.
 
noyram23

noyram23

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,372
Cromat said:
This mechanic doesn't work in 6vs6 Singles whatsoever. The whole format is about maneuvering around your opponent through switching and predicting switches correctly. It doesn't work if each Pokemon can transform into a juggernaut at any point and just steamroll the other team.

Luckily Dynamax send much more manageable in VGC Doubles which is the official competitive format. It seems like this is Gamefreaks way of killing singles...
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So 2v2 is the official supported mode? Then wtf is 99% of the battle in game is 1v1?
 
jman2050

jman2050

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,783
Cromat said:
This mechanic doesn't work in 6vs6 Singles whatsoever. The whole format is about maneuvering around your opponent through switching and predicting switches correctly. It doesn't work if each Pokemon can transform into a juggernaut at any point and just steamroll the other team.

Luckily Dynamax send much more manageable in VGC Doubles which is the official competitive format. It seems like this is Gamefreaks way of killing singles...
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Well Singles has been awful for about four gens now, so good riddance I guess.

Competitive Pokemon is basically a doubles game now, for better or for worse.
 
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