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Honome

Member
Jan 10, 2018
1,084
Rio de Janeiro
Did you ever felt cheated playing an EA sports game? Played like 3 games in Fifa and won them easily and suddenly in the next game your players can't make a 5 meters pass, feel like running on mud and your goalie can't stop even a Giroud shot? Well, many people (including me) knows that feeling.

For years a big part of Fifa community complains about this kind of scripting in EA sports games, even in online matches. But for years EA simply deny any talk about the subject, closing forums threads about it and banning users from their official forums every time someone insisted calling them about scripting.

Well, in 2016 EA decide to patent their scripting system, calling it "Dynamic Difficulty Adjustment" (of course it would have a very fancy name). The patent is in a very specific technical language but it basically shows how it´s made the adjust the difficulty so the player keeps playing the most time possible. And it makes it by checking the player playtime and making adjusts to the AI so a game will be easier or hard. So the feeling that so many people had for years that in some matches the game CLEARLY interferes in our team or in the AI team or in the online opposite team is absolutely true.

I am posting the abstract of the patent and the link if anyone is interested in reading it.

PS: Don´t know if it's forbidden to post the link of the patent and if it is i will edit it later.



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The patent link: EA's Dynamic Difficulty Adjustment
 

Inugami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,995
In a video I watched recently, the amount of branded ads in these games are already crazy... It's insane how much money these games make and how they are designed to take advantage of the players.
 

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
i am playing mlb the show 19 right now and its bizarre how i get 20 hits in one game and almost get no hit in the next game. all line drives magically go straight to fielders, pitchers start throwing more offspeed stuff, more balls, and start painting the corner like greg maddux.

its always bugged me.
 

Lucid

Member
Oct 26, 2017
227
United Kingdom
They could replace them with in-universe ads. Of course there's no money in those ads, but I love how Hitman 2 does this with the sponsors on the race cars for example.
Yeah but it makes sense as the race cars are fictional. It'd be weird having real football teams running around in stadiums plastered with fake adverts, especially when the kits would still have to be licensed and use real sponsors and brands anyway.
 

Orbit

Banned
Nov 21, 2018
1,328
wow...they can come up with such a sophisticated program (i'm guessing its' pretty sophisticated, right?) but cannot get a dedicated frostbite support team for all studios. nice EA.
 
Nov 14, 2017
549
When you got pay to win mechanics in Ultimate team they're going to start messing with the script of the game. The last thing they want is the casuals getting beaten over and over

EA made 850 million from people opening packs with real money.. It only reason why the deny scripting and their devs likely signed NDAs to not speak about it.
 

NightShift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,988
Australia
Usually dynamic difficulty can be amazing like in Resident Evil 2 Remake but just because it's EA, I only assume they'll use it for nefarious means.
 

Kouriozan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,046
I'm glad I stopped playing EA games since last gen, I would feel very insulted by stuff like this.
They're obviously doing this to increase MTX revenue.
 

Inugami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,995
i mean, it'd be weird if there WEREN'T branded ads in sports games. they're all over real sports.
Play a sports game in the last 10 years? It's not just in the backgrounds... These games have literal commercials, have "gatorade training centers" where you drink gatorade to get stat boosts. You get endorsement deals where you go into meetings with gatorade to make gatorade commercials... This is far beyond even real sports events.
 

Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
35,328
Play a sports game in the last 10 years? It's not just in the backgrounds... These games have literal commercials, have "gatorade training centers" where you drink gatorade to get stat boosts. You get endorsement deals where you go into meetings with gatorade to make gatorade commercials... This is far beyond even real sports events.
I don't think FIFA, the most played sports game in the world, does this, so you can excuse people for not knowing what you're talking about. I too thought you were talking about advertising hoardings around the pitch.
 

Inugami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,995
I don't think FIFA, the most played sports game in the world, does this, so you can excuse people for not knowing what you're talking about. I too thought you were talking about advertising hoardings around the pitch.
I may have been mistaken as well, it may have been a 2k sports game, not EA. It was a few weeks ago so I'm not even sure which video it as. Still gross behavior all around.
 

Tbm24

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,150
I'm glad I stopped playing EA games since last gen, I would feel very insulted by stuff like this.
They're obviously doing this to increase MTX revenue.
Maybe? I don't actually see how this accomplishes that since it only applies if you're playing FUT modes and even then, tossing money to try and get better players doesn't actually help you with what this system does.
 

Inugami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,995
Maybe? I don't actually see how this accomplishes that since it only applies if you're playing FUT modes and even then, tossing money to try and get better players doesn't actually help you with what this system does.
It gives the ILLUSION of helping though. "Man I keep almost winning, if only I had a couple more better players that'd be what pushes me over the edge!"

It's a common tactic in mobile games.
 

Orbit

Banned
Nov 21, 2018
1,328
Almost as if...the scope, difficulty and scale of those two things are completely unrelated and different.

almost as if...bioware keeps detailing struggles with the frostbite engine and nothing is done. the next time you quote me, it would be a lot more beneficial for you to reply in an informative manner, as opposed to the ass hat, sarcastic reply that i got.
 

Roy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,471
i am playing mlb the show 19 right now and its bizarre how i get 20 hits in one game and almost get no hit in the next game. all line drives magically go straight to fielders, pitchers start throwing more offspeed stuff, more balls, and start painting the corner like greg maddux.

its always bugged me.
Looks like that won't be happening anymore else Sony will be violating EA's patent 🤣
 

joe_zazen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,490
There was a twitter thread a year or two ago about the 'tricks' devs use to get people on board/hooked. If any one has a link, plz share.

And I mean, this is all about manipulating players to play and spend more. Videogames aren't boardgames, and ultimate packs aren't kinder eggs.
 

Vipu

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,276
This reminds me of Destiny or Anthem (or maybe this exact thing in OP)text or talk I have seen where they had really special system like this to make people want to buy better items.
The things these moneymakers will do will be reeeeal bad as long as people keep buying their games.
They cant make even a bit complicated gameplay things on the side, but when its about how to abuse to get more money, then its ALL-IN highest tech and ideas possible.
 

Dhuggs_

Member
Oct 27, 2017
632
New Jersey
i am playing mlb the show 19 right now and its bizarre how i get 20 hits in one game and almost get no hit in the next game. all line drives magically go straight to fielders, pitchers start throwing more offspeed stuff, more balls, and start painting the corner like greg maddux.

its always bugged me.

I don't care what anyone says, MLB is notorious for the fifth inning being the CPU's comeback inning. Has been for years, this year it's not nearly as bad as previous. Years ago you could look up "MLB comeback AI" and see so many responses.
 

auicc

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
404
I thought this was already known lol. I feel like every game I play in madden when I am ahead in the first half, the cpu always seems to have a good drive in the 2 minute drill and if they end up with the ball first in the second half they always seem to make every play and score.
 

Moai

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
444
Chile
Fifa pro clubs. Some matches everything goes in. In other our virtual pros miss incredible goals. Or in a blowout match that we are leading by three or four goals our ai starts to let the rival team score the most stupid goals. We call it the mario kart effect. Its infuriating.
 

trugs26

Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,024
Do the Pro Evo games have something similar as well? If not, I'd just stick with that franchise instead.
 

Marvie

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,708
Fifa pro clubs. Some matches everything goes in. In other our virtual pros miss incredible goals. Or in a blowout match that we are leading by three or four goals our ai starts to let the rival team score the most stupid goals. We call it the mario kart effect. Its infuriating.
Same thing happens in NHL. You can completely dominate a game and still lose because the other team gets the weakest goals.
 
OP
OP
Honome

Honome

Member
Jan 10, 2018
1,084
Rio de Janeiro
Do the Pro Evo games have something similar as well? If not, I'd just stick with that franchise instead.

I think every sports games uses this kind of practice and i think it would be ok if it was setted as an option and strictly for offline modes. However EA clearly uses it on every online mode too and, for me, it's an absurd that the game benefits one player over the other just to try to keep everybody happy and playing.

An online mode should never be affected by this, it's unfair, abusive and the worse part is that EA always tried to hide it from the players for years, denying any kind of rubber band script that many people witnesses every time they played any of their sports games.

I basically played Fifa and NHL and i can say for sure that the same thing happens in both games.
 

trugs26

Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,024
I think every sports games uses this kind of practice and i think it would be ok if it was setted as an option and strictly for offline modes. However EA clearly uses it on every online mode too and, for me, it's an absurd that the game benefits one player over the other just to try to keep everybody happy and playing.

An online mode should never be affected by this, it's unfair, abusive and the worse part is that EA always tried to hide it from the players for years, denying any kind of rubber band script that many people witnesses every time they played any of their sports games.

I basically played Fifa and NHL and i can say for sure that the same thing happens in both games.
Yeah I mean they could have it online but as an option (e.g., casual and competitive modes).
 

Orion117

Prophet of Regret - A King's Landing
Member
Dec 8, 2018
3,915
This reminds me of Destiny or Anthem (or maybe this exact thing in OP)text or talk I have seen where they had really special system like this to make people want to buy better items.
The things these moneymakers will do will be reeeeal bad as long as people keep buying their games.
They cant make even a bit complicated gameplay things on the side, but when its about how to abuse to get more money, then its ALL-IN highest tech and ideas possible.
You are thinking of an activision patent.
 

Cronus

Member
Oct 31, 2017
520
....but why? Raising the difficulty makes me stop playing, mostly permanently.

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Because they want to keep earning those $$$.

It's pretty simple. They'd lose half their player base pretty quickly if the below-average half would lose to the above-average half of the player base all the time. With this system in place, the below-average players and casuals will win games, keep playing the game and keep spending money in Ultimate Team. Even though you and me (and others) stop playing the game because of this shit, EA would have lost even far more players and revenue without it in place.

So, I can see why they do it, but I don't respect their decision to make an un-even playing field just to make money. You don't see bad players in BF or COD getting an invisible double damage effect when their K/D is terrible, so why should it... oh god, I just gave EA the greastest idea just now, didn't I?
 

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,496
So to be clear, I'm now meant to believe that scripting is real in FIFA, something that people have been complaining about since at least 2008 because of a patent filed in 2016?
 

Decarb

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,632
Anyone who's played FIFA for even a small amount of time knows about this behind the scene fuckery.
 

Nome

Designer / Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,312
NYC
Have never played a FIFA game, but if this difficulty adjustment has been observed on an offline system, then it's probably not what this patent is for.
 

elenarie

Game Developer
Verified
Jun 10, 2018
9,776
I think you can turn off some of this in the settings, if I remember correctly.

Wish more games had intelligent dynamic difficulty systems. Some games really get ruined by either having difficulty walls or by getting too easy at certain points due to over leveling or what not.

AC Odyssey handles this nicely as they have multiple base difficulties in addition to scaling and dynamic difficulty settings.
 

Error 52

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
2,032
Play a sports game in the last 10 years? It's not just in the backgrounds... These games have literal commercials, have "gatorade training centers" where you drink gatorade to get stat boosts. You get endorsement deals where you go into meetings with gatorade to make gatorade commercials... This is far beyond even real sports events.
That's NBA 2K specifically. EA doesn't go that far.
 

Garou

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,616
Do the Pro Evo games have something similar as well? If not, I'd just stick with that franchise instead.

There are players in the PES-community that will swear that scripting is in the game, but to this day no one has shown anything close to proof, most of them are just salty when they lose and search for reasons other than "I wasn't as good as my opponent".

There are also some streamers (mostly Japanese) that have 60+ consecutive wins in ranked online, with full matches on YouTube, so either they "cracked the code" or scripting simply doesn't exist there.
 

Error 52

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
2,032
There are players in the PES-community that will swear that scripting is in the game, but to this day no one has shown anything close to proof, most of them are just salty when they lose and search for reasons other than "I wasn't as good as my opponent".

There are also some streamers (mostly Japanese) that have 60+ consecutive wins in ranked online, with full matches on YouTube, so either they "cracked the code" or scripting simply doesn't exist there.
Scripting in general seems like it's one of those things that's really hard to prove, because half of it is genuinely odd situations that may or may not be explainable, and half of it is pure salt.

Anyway, what the fuck is EA trying to do in patenting dynamic difficulty? So many games have it in form or another. Resident Evil 4, Smash Bros, Mario Kart, Left 4 Dead, basically every racing game...
 

Kain

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
7,590
Exactly the reason I stopped playing FIFA. That shit is not fun
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
They could replace them with in-universe ads. Of course there's no money in those ads, but I love how Hitman 2 does this with the sponsors on the race cars for example.


Branded ads ARE in-Universe ads. What universe or timeline do you think FIFA takes place in?
 

SprachBrooks

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,353
They could replace them with in-universe ads. Of course there's no money in those ads, but I love how Hitman 2 does this with the sponsors on the race cars for example.

What a weird comparison. The whole point is this is a football simulation game based on real word teams. This isn't an arcadey 'Fifa Street' type of game.