EA responds to community criticism of Battlefront 2 unlock system

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Oct 25, 2017
10,716
#1
Star Wars: Battlefront 2 Origin Access players have been making their voices heard over the game's unlock system ahead of its release next week. In particular, they've taken to Reddit to complain about iconic characters like Darth Vader being locked from the start as well as the length of time it takes to unlock characters.

One user calculated that because of the fact you earn in-game credits based on time played, rather than your score in a match, it will take up to 40 hours to earn enough credits to unlock characters like Luke Skywalker, who costs 60,000 (the cheapest character costs 20,000). Their calculations purely take into account credits earned during matches, not credits earned by completing challenges early in the game: eliminating your first five opponents earns you 1,000, for example.
EA has responded to the claim on the Reddit thread. It says it is "looking at the results daily" for the time taken to earn credits and will be "continuing to tune this to ensure that players feel a meaningful sense of reward".

"We selected initial values based upon data from the Open Beta and other adjustments made to milestone rewards before launch. Among other things, we're looking at average per-player credit earn rates on a daily basis, and we'll be making constant adjustments to ensure that players have challenges that are compelling, rewarding, and of course attainable via gameplay." Click here to read the company's full response.
It also responded to a different thread started by a user who was angry at having paid $80 for the game only for Darth Vader to be locked behind the game's progression system. "This is a joke... this age of 'micro-transactions' has gone way too far," the user said.

EA responded in a similar way to the other post, adding that "the intent is to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment for unlocking different heroes".
More @ http://www.pcgamer.com/ea-responds-to-community-criticism-of-battlefront-2-unlock-system/

EA's community manager blasted the internet as "armchair developers." on Twitter. As you can imagine this didn't go down well, tweet now deleted but the internet, or reddit, doesn't forget

http://archive.is/DenaU

Lootbox me if old.
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
265
The Ether
#2
That community manager is probably going to lose his job over that tweet and that sucks. It was dumb, but not job-losing dumb. There's no sympathy on the internet though, MUST DESTROY.


As for EA's stance... not great. Not great.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,160
#3
This is pretty shitty, at least it'll lighten up my back log since I'm just going to steer clear of EA games for now.
 
OP
OP
Audioboxer
Oct 25, 2017
10,716
#4
That community manager is probably going to lose his job over that tweet and that sucks. It was dumb, but not job-losing dumb. There's no sympathy on the internet though, MUST DESTROY.


As for EA's stance... not great. Not great.
It immediately made me think Adam Orth 2.0. You shouldn't lose your job as that's crazy, but what on earth do these companies teach their social media/PR folks to do? When people are unhappy in large numbers you do not throw gas on the fire.
 
#5
There is no "tuning" that will fix this system. You could give me a loot box for every match and it is still predatory.

The progression system is unfair and unwanted at its very core.

Fuck this, Fuck EA, and Fuck DICE. I'll say it in every thread.
 

Milennia

Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,783
#6
locking darth vader and characters behind massive walls, interesting shit right here

like honestly, locking DARTH FUCKING VADER behind a huge wall

same goes for luke skywalker, literally the 2 faces of the franchise
 
Oct 25, 2017
983
#8
That community manager is probably going to lose his job over that tweet and that sucks. It was dumb, but not job-losing dumb. There's no sympathy on the internet though, MUST DESTROY.
I dunno, while I'm also not a community manager whose job it is to respond to the playerbase and keep them appeased, what he tweeted seems like it would do the opposite of that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
709
#9
Sensing pride and accomplishment for having reached XX hours of gameplay without spending any of the credits you got just so you could unlock one hero.

Welcome to 2017.
 

Ebenezer

Banned
Member
Oct 28, 2017
352
#10
The responses from EA so far are hollow until the changes are outlined and implemented. And the community manager is doing a poor job at his job, that usually leads to discipline or termination. I just read through his twitter timeline and he's now trying to spin it that he wasn't talking about Star Wars, everyone is wrong, and he's a victim.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,408
#11
I'm a huge Star Wars fan. Loved the 2015 version despite all it's flaws but I simply can't give EA money this time around. I honestly feel worried about the future of this hobby of ours. It feels like where on the precipise of a downward spiral of

Less triple A purchases by consumers because of the P2W micotransactions =/= More Micro transactions to cover the shortfall.

In all of WB's PR for SOW they didn't mention that in the UK SOW was down 18% on consoles. 18% for a sequel when the original was embraced by gamers can't be a good thing.
 
Oct 27, 2017
347
#15
Pretty dumb tweet. We don't need a degree in video games, experience in the industry, or a chair with arms to know that the pay to win situation (before the change or current) is piss poor.

It's shitty to the people who will buy the game.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,808
#17
Please tell us more about how awesome these F2P progression systems are in full priced games.

It wont be long until subscriptions come into play at this rate.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,675
#18
EA responded in a similar way to the other post, adding that "the intent is to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment for unlocking different heroes".
I don't understand how one could feel it's an accomplishment to have unlocked something solely for playing for a long time.

Is it still their intention to not reward players for doing well? Because if that's not the case, what's the incentive to not just AFK matches to earn credits?

Also, didn't this just confirm everybody's worst fears in that the rewards weren't just dialed back for the trail?
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,755
#19
Unfortunately, none of this is going to make a difference if people actually buy the game.

Complaining about it is absolutely the right thing to do, but if the complaints aren't also paired with a hit to EA's bottom line, it's just going to be even worse next time around.
 
OP
OP
Audioboxer
Oct 25, 2017
10,716
#20
Can someone explain the Darth Vader complaint to me? Is Darth or a variant exclusive to the $80 version? Which I guess you then have to grind to unlock? If so that is some bullshit. Paying $20 more than RRP if it is for a special unlock should just give you it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
709
#21
The responses from EA so far are hollow until the changes are outlined and implemented. And the community manager is doing a poor job at his job, that usually leads to discipline or termination. I just read through his twitter timeline and he's now trying to spin it that he wasn't talking about Star Wars, everyone is wrong, and he's a victim.
This is the already changed version of the game. They might tweak credits gain a couple % here and there and shave a couple thousand credits off hero prices but that's it. They're not going to magically remove the lootboxes, I doubt anything else will be done since the game is coming out this Friday.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,119
#24
There's also this from another developer.

Hey all,

Apologies for not being more active these past weeks leading up to launch - as you know things get really hectic and you tend to spend whatever spare freetime you have recovering. I really regret not being here on the subreddit at the start of the early access. Hopefully some of these replies will bring some clarity and hope.

  • Performance during games will affect the amount of credits you get at the end of a match.

  • Matchmaking will take into account not only player skill, but also total gametime and rarity of star cards. This means that you will be matchmade with players with an average performance similar to you and (to the largest extent possible) not against players who are much better than you, whether by having higher rarity cards or by showing higher skill.

  • Heroes that are locked at launch will only be unlocked with credits, not crystals. The heroes, similar to the locked weapons for Troopers, are sidegrades instead of upgrades (Darth Vader should be on similar power level as Darth Maul, etc). The goal is to keep you playing for a long time and have something cool to look forward to as you earn credits.

  • Speaking of earning credits, we're constantly evaluating and tweaking the earn rates versus the cost of crates and heroes. The current rates were based on open beta data, but you should expect us to constantly evolve these numbers as we hit launch and onwards. There will also be more milestones that award credits and crafting parts available, as well as star cards only unlockable through those milestones. If all you want to do is play and grind towards your next unlock that will be fully possible and we'll continue to tweak the numbers until the requirements feel fun and achievable.
Working on a game with a live economy and without a premium content lineup is a new challenge for us at DICE. We had one progression system in the closed alpha and heard your feedback back then. We made another iteration for the open beta and heard your feedback then too. For launch, we're having another iteration and there will definitely be more iterations as we evolve this game post launch.

Your continous feedback as you play the game is absolutely invaluable and I encourage you to keep sending it our way. There is really no reason to "rebel" against us - we want this game to be as great and enjoyable as it can be - we're reading all your feedback and working as fast as we can to adjust the game to your liking.

The dev team will be around Battlefront II for a long time. I sincerely hope you'll be here with us!

Thanks,

Dennis
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsBa...progression_comments/?st=j9xh6cj7&sh=efbba65d

The bit about pricing the heroes high to make you keep playing for a long time irks me, if the game is good and fun to play people will keep coming back to it anyway.
 
Oct 26, 2017
328
Australia
#25
I don't really know the mechanics of Battlefront, but from everything I've read about the progression system and the microtransaction system it seems very Pay2Win, which in a $60 game is quite unacceptable to me. I wasn't planning on buying this game (I have EA Access) but it sucks for fans of the series.
 

Lakuza

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
826
#26
i dont get how devs came to the conclusion in the first place that 40 hours to unlock one hero is a great sense of accomplishment...
They can call it armchair development, but it doesnt take data to realise that 40 hours for one hero unlock is way too extreme, assuming they all play games in their free time I'm confused by their thinking.
Everyone complaining about it has done great though (their reddit was flooded with complaints too) so at best, the grind time should be reduced significantly.

There's also this from another developer.



https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsBa...progression_comments/?st=j9xh6cj7&sh=efbba65d

The bit about pricing the heroes high to make you keep playing for a long time irks me, if the game is good and fun to play people will keep coming back to it anyway.
Thats a better response from them and will be interesting to see what the performance based credit payout is like.
 

meppi64

Self-Requested Ban
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,479
#30
Just when I thought I had plenty of reasons to not buy EA games already.

They make it so easy at times.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,857
México
#31
That community manager is probably going to lose his job over that tweet and that sucks. It was dumb, but not job-losing dumb. There's no sympathy on the internet though, MUST DESTROY.


As for EA's stance... not great. Not great.
He's the one trying to handle the PR nightmare this shitty launch has been causing. I understand his frustration, but that was a tweet reeked with condescending manners it deserves some kind of reprehension.

Adding shit on top of shit is not what your CM should be doing.

As for EA: Yeah, fuck you, not buying this. I'll wait for it when it its the Vault tho.
 

Mondy

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,456
#33
"Armchair developers"

Well done on making it a million times worse by insulting people's intelligence, EA. We know what you're doing, and it isn't fucking promoting a "sense of accomplishment". It's Microtransaction 101, put the biggest draws so out of reach that people throw their hands up and buy their way there. Dungeon Keeper Mobile says hello.
 
Oct 25, 2017
554
#34
I predict their "solution" will be gifting players some loot boxes and enough credits to buy a couple of heroes, but not actually fixing anything
 

Milennia

Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,783
#35

Either he's trying to backtrack or he's addressing some other game criticism controversy I'm unaware of...
this is like the eric bledsoe trade in the nba recently, tweet " i dont want to be here", then backtracking and saying " i was talking about a hair salon"
 
#37
I don't think i've ever seen so many downvotes on anything. They probably shouldn't say anything about "providing players with a sense of pride and accomplishment for unlocking different heroes" in this situations.

The intent is to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment for unlocking different heroes.

As for cost, we selected initial values based upon data from the Open Beta and other adjustments made to milestone rewards before launch. Among other things, we're looking at average per-player credit earn rates on a daily basis, and we'll be making constant adjustments to ensure that players have challenges that are compelling, rewarding, and of course attainable via gameplay.

We appreciate the candid feedback, and the passion the community has put forth around the current topics here on Reddit, our forums and across numerous social media outlets.

Our team will continue to make changes and monitor community feedback and update everyone as soon and as often as we can.

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsBa...ously_i_paid_80_to_have_vader_locked/dppum98/
 

Jiro

Permanently banned for usage of an alt-account.
Member
Oct 27, 2017
967
Japan
#38
By buying this game you will encourage EA to put this system in their other upcoming games as well.

I beg you, do not give them your money.
 
OP
OP
Audioboxer
Oct 25, 2017
10,716
#39

Either he's trying to backtrack or he's addressing some other game criticism controversy I'm unaware of...
Considering reddit has apparently been blowing up to the tune of EA having to directly release press statements about the two topics in the OP I think he was referring to SW. I don't blame him for deflecting though, losing a job over a dumb tweet that isn't that offensive is a bit much. Should definitely have to apologise for angering the Battlefront community though.

It does however show the contempt some devs and/or pub representatives have for those that criticise their money making schemes. IIRC the Diablo 3 lead had some sort of mini rage on social media about people hammering the RMAH. Didn't they end up leaving the project? I might be a bit rusty in remembering that properly to be honest.

Adam Orth was the big case I remember MS sacrificing over his tweet.
 
Oct 25, 2017
709
#42
The bit about pricing the heroes high to make you keep playing for a long time irks me, if the game is good and fun to play people will keep coming back to it anyway.
That's the thing, they want to keep you engaged for as possible by drip feeding you "rewards" to maximize lootbox sales. An active player may buy boxes, one who quits until the next content drop wouldn't.

I'm surprised they haven't added a daily login reward yet, another tried and true staple of free to play games.
 

malyse

Community Resetter
Member
#43
That community manager is probably going to lose his job over that tweet and that sucks. It was dumb, but not job-losing dumb. There's no sympathy on the internet though, MUST DESTROY.


As for EA's stance... not great. Not great.
Disagree. I think tweeting something like that should cost you your job as community manager. You're supposed to manage the community not drive them away.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,923
#44
Disagree. I think tweeting something like that should cost you your job as community manager. You're supposed to manage the community not drive them away.
I agree with this. Isn't that his main job? So by making the community more annoyed with the game would be him failing at his job.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,808
#45
Just a reminder, even if you dont buy any MTs, buying this game means you are supporting this business model. The only way to make it go away is to completely boycott the games with these business models.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,675
#46
That's the thing, they want to keep you engaged for as possible by drip feeding you "rewards" to maximize lootbox sales. An active player may buy boxes, one who quits until the next content drop wouldn't.

I'm surprised they haven't added a daily login reward yet, another tried and true staple of free to play games.
Don't EA games generally have daily challenges or whatever?
 
Oct 25, 2017
969
Idaho
#49
EA is treating this game like it's Galaxy of Fucking Heroes, without understanding the extreme differences between the two audiences. It's just incredible how much they've managed to mismanage the Star Wars license.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,495
#50
fuck ea. I will not buy any of their games with microtransactions. In fact, I refuse to buy any game with gameplay altering microtransactions.
 
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