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Vire

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,591
How is five to six years not an adequate amount of development time? At the end of the day you can only place so much blame on the publisher.

60 FPS is not something considered critical or worth delaying a game over. I'm sure you could point to other parts of the game though that deserve significant improvement.
 

jschreier

Press Sneak Fuck
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,098
Some might argue that it'd be ridiculous to call Anthem "rushed" when it's been in development since mid-2012.

Others might argue that it'd be ridiculous to say Anthem was "in development" since mid-2012 when BioWare has been through several projects since then (ME3, DA Inquisition, ME Andromeda) that all needed to draft the bulk of staff across all of their studios, plus additional support across all of EA, during various points when they were on fire.

I argue that postmortems (and declarations like this) can wait until the game is actually out and we can see if it's any good!
 

Stardestroyer

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,819
DICE and BioWare must find a way to leave EA. I don't want either of them to shut down..

Bioware and Dice would have to be making enough money from the profits generated by their games to be able to leave. That rarely happens. And yes, Bungie and Activision is not an example. Activision was a publising deal.

Or EA could just cut them off and let them on their own like SE and IO interactive. EA isn't that nice.

Yeah, just look at the roaring success of Mass Effect Andromeda! EA hate is clearly confined only to this forum.
Except that ME:A did make money. EA could lie but that would be against the law.
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,446
I am genuinely starting to wonder if some of you realize how modern publicly traded US businesses are run. There is no way Anthem gets pushed back out of this quarter.
 

Deleted member 47843

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Sep 16, 2018
2,501
The game has been worked on 6 years, and was delayed. Saying it is "rushed" seems pretty hyperbolic

Yep. And I don't think Andromeda would have been much better with more time--that team just wasn't up to the task of making a game up to the standards of the series. Here it seems like this game has been in development hell since it's been years and still in pretty rough shape.

Publishers are only going to give studios so much time before just wanting the game out to try to recoup some of the costs. The one thing EA is fucking up is wanting all their studios to use Frostbyte as I think that's causing some games a lot of issues be it the engine just isn't as suited to some things are just problems from forcing it on studios who didn't know it and were experts at other engines.
 

Okabe

Is Sometimes A Good Bean
Member
Aug 24, 2018
19,939
I agree .

I don't what happened between the battlefield 5 beta which ran buttery smooth compared to the final which is an unoptimized mess
 

Drey1082

Member
Oct 27, 2017
714
Some might argue that it'd be ridiculous to call Anthem "rushed" when it's been in development since mid-2012.

Others might argue that it'd be ridiculous to say Anthem was "in development" since mid-2012 when BioWare has been through several projects since then (ME3, DA Inquisition, ME Andromeda) that all needed to draft the bulk of staff across all of their studios, plus additional support across all of EA, during various points when they were on fire.

I argue that postmortems (and declarations like this) can wait until the game is actually out and we can see if it's any good!

Have you done any research into the development of anthem and the feeling internally at bioware?

I just read your book (which I loved by the way) and an Anthem chapter in a blood, sweat, and pixels sequel is something I'm already getting hyped for.
 

Qwark

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,030
Bioware and Dice would have to be making enough money from the profits generated by their games to be able to leave. That rarely happens. And yes, Bungie and Activision is not an example. Activision was a publising deal.

Or EA could just cut them off and let them on their own like SE and IO interactive. EA isn't that nice.


Except that ME:A did make money. EA could lie but that would be against the law.
But Bungie and Microsoft would be an example of that, no?

Not that I'm disagreeing with you, I don't think it's likely for DICE or Bioware to get free.
 

sleepr

Banned for misusing pronouns feature
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,965
nothing cleared up, there was the infinite loading glitch happening the whole time through the whole DEMO(because they called it a demo and not a beta)

They called it a demo because if they called it a BETA they would have to go through the certification process on consoles. Easy to understand.

Devs have been pretty open about this on reddit. They're constantly interacting with the community.
 

Stardestroyer

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,819
But Bungie and Microsoft would be an example of that, no?

Not that I'm disagreeing with you, I don't think it's likely for DICE or Bioware to get free.
I did consider Bungie and Microsoft, but essentially from my research Bungie did not want to keep making Halo

Microsoft let Bungie go. Apparently, again from my very limited research MS wanted Bungie to keep making Halo. Bungie did not want to keep making Halo, so Bungie asked for a split and Microsoft was OK with it, since really MS only cared about Halo. Halo could be done without Bungie and also bungie was the golden child.

For EA case, I highly doubt its shareholders would be too pleased to let the only other viable studios they have to just leave. EA is a third party publisher it needs studios to publisher games, why would they let their studio just walk away. At best if EA by some miracle does let them leave, they definitely won't be keeping the IP or the buildings etc.

Also people constantly say that EA my shut down Bioware, they really cannot do that. What other studios would they have if they shutdown bioware? What is more likely to happen is they will retool the company.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,240
I don't think EA and Bioware are compatible anymore. The studio's strengths and weaknesses clash too much with EA's new business model and GAAS direction.
 

RedshirtRig

Member
Nov 14, 2017
958
Get your popcorn ready folks, when this game launches it is going to quite a sight to behold. (and not in a good way).
 

GameAddict411

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,521
EA fully knew that ME Andromeda was not ready for launch but they didn't care. I doubt they will care about Anthem. They force release to please shareholders, but when they under preform because they are buggy and shitty, they get mad and start on a murdering spree by closing studios and laying off people. People need to understand that EA only cares about the bottom line. Either make something that sells gangbusters, or die. They don't care about the quality anymore. Just look at how Anthem is creatively bankrupt. It's a Destiny clone. It scares Bioware heads that if they didn't make a very safe game that it will sell, their days are numbered. I no longer see the Bioware that I loved and understandably so. I am glad that Bungie separated from Activision before they they got to this stage.
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,032
UK
EA fully knew that ME Andromeda was not ready for launch but they didn't care. I doubt they will care about Anthem. They force release to please shareholders, but when they under preform because they are buggy and shitty, they get mad and start on a murdering spree by closing studios and laying off people. People need to understand that EA only cares about the bottom line. Either make something that sells gangbusters, or die. They don't care about the quality anymore. Just look at how Anthem is creatively bankrupt. It's a Destiny clone. It scares Bioware heads that if they didn't make a very safe game that it will sell, their days are numbered. I no longer see the Bioware that I loved and understandably so. I am glad that Bungie separated from Activision before they they got to this stage.

Most publishers only care about the bottom line

It's just that most are not run so poorly that they decide to sacrifice game after game by shitting them out too early or shitcanning them entirely

I mean, I know they make a ton of money because of their predatory monitisation model in FIFA, but they're not being run well at all
 

janoGX

Banned
Nov 29, 2017
2,453
Chile
Just look at how Anthem is creatively bankrupt. It's a Destiny clone. It scares Bioware heads that if they didn't make a very safe game that it will sell, their days are numbered. I no longer see the Bioware that I loved and understandably so. I am glad that Bungie separated from Activision before they they got to this stage.

If anything, I think Anthem is more of a Warframe clone than Destiny. Only that Warframe does many of Anthem's stuff but for free and with an already established playerbase.

Destiny will still move on and will be unnaffected by Anthem.
 

Spasm

Member
Nov 16, 2017
1,948
This game should have been left in the oven a bit longer.

Only through sheer patience and determination did I end up actually enjoying the demo quite a lot. Not everyone will, or should have to put that level of effort into it to enjoy it. Just think of how much more positive the reaction would have been if, all else being equal, 1) it just plain worked reliably. And 2) it ran at 60fps.
 

Raide

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
16,596
Anthem thread? Anthem thread.

Doom and gloom over one Demo that went a little wonky.
 

Akita One

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,628
I am genuinely starting to wonder if some of you realize how modern publicly traded US businesses are run. There is no way Anthem gets pushed back out of this quarter.

This is any business, not just publicly traded or US businesses. Anyone with even 20 degrees of separation from an actual business knows that any product you spend money developing, has a time limit before the amount of sales gained will not support further development or cause increased profit.

This is actually why so many recent single player games get canceled...companies know that a single player game basically has to be a GOTY candidate in order to get large sales. So, if it becomes apparent that it will be less than that, they scrap it. If they just need more time, then they delay it...but only to a certain point, because a game can only earn so many sales. Do you think if Nintendo delayed BOTW an additional year, that it would have sold better? Even a game like Battleborn...in hindsight they did release it at the right time, because it would have been destroyed even further if they had waited. But, if they had released it like 6 months before Overwatch, and it was even more janky with bugs and such...many people here would say "hey 2K should have made them delay it" but it would have sold significantly more, being the first "hero arena" shooter.

Consumers don't give you "credit" for improvements they never saw. Delaying a game in itself doesn't improve sales. Some companies say..."hey if we release this product today at C+ quality, is there any difference in income in releasing it tomorrow at B+ quality?"...these decisions can sometimes happen before we even see one screenshot (Metroid Prime).
 

Ralemont

Member
Jan 3, 2018
4,508
If they can fix the infinite loading and connectivity issues (very possible by launch) the rest is pretty run of the mill flaws and tweaking. The core gameplay is great and will only get better with time and content.

It does seem like the PC version needs more love than console going forward, though.
 

saint

Member
Oct 27, 2017
709
lmao what makes you think that they give a fuck

as long as they make money it's all good
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,446
This is any business, not just publicly traded or US businesses. Anyone with even 20 degrees of separation from an actual business knows that any product you spend money developing, has a time limit before the amount of sales gained will not support further development or cause increased profit.

This is actually why so many recent single player games get canceled...companies know that a single player game basically has to be a GOTY candidate in order to get large sales. So, if it becomes apparent that it will be less than that, they scrap it. If they just need more time, then they delay it...but only to a certain point, because a game can only earn so many sales. Do you think if Nintendo delayed BOTW an additional year, that it would have sold better? Even a game like Battleborn...in hindsight they did release it at the right time, because it would have been destroyed even further if they had waited. But, if they had released it like 6 months before Overwatch, and it was even more janky with bugs and such...many people here would say "hey 2K should have made them delay it" but it would have sold significantly more, being the first "hero arena" shooter.

Consumers don't give you "credit" for improvements they never saw. Delaying a game in itself doesn't improve sales. Some companies say..."hey if we release this product today at C+ quality, is there any difference in income in releasing it tomorrow at B+ quality?"...these decisions can sometimes happen before we even see one screenshot (Metroid Prime).

Agreed.

I qualified my statement to US (run) publicly traded companies because the business pressures and expectations are at times very different. Many AAA US publishers face significant shareholder/board pressure to meet and exceed quarterly targets. We are an enthusiast forum. So we care about the quality of the product often neglecting the financial expectations.
 

Akita One

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,628
Agreed.

I qualified my statement to US (run) publicly traded companies because the business pressures and expectations are at times very different. Many AAA US publishers face significant shareholder/board pressure to meet and exceed quarterly targets. We are an enthusiast forum. So we care about the quality of the product often neglecting the financial expectations.

Yes I agree, and also on the other side of the spectrum...so many crowd funding projects and other development by indie/solo devs have games that never see the light of day because they are constantly trying to make the game perfect, and all of a sudden the electricity goes out because they couldn't afford the bill.
 

Ze_Shoopuf

Member
Jun 12, 2018
3,941
i'm super curious about whether last weekend's demo made people cancel more preorders or gain new preorders.......