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Easy Allies |OT2| Love & Reset

Nov 3, 2017
184
I don't think unfamiliarity is going to make a Dreams stream boring. Quite the opposite really. I want to see the guys' first experience with the tools, the discovery of what can be accomplished. Given Reactions are some of your most popular videos, having the Group Stream be "Easy Allies Play Dreams for the First Time" seems like an absolute no brainer for a stream, as well as a Youtube video, title and thumbnail.

I'm so bored of these "go-through-the-motions" group streams where everyone sits in a room while someone's playing a single player game. It just ends up with side conversations taking the up the majority of the screen time.

I'm sure that the Final Fantasy XV crossover in FFXIV is going to be really cool, but it doesn't translate well in the group stream format. It's way better suited to a smaller group of people who are familiar with both games (I think Huber and Bosman, along with Damiani at the wheel, would be a great combo). It should lead to a more intimate, more focused discussion during the stream, with more time to actually bring the detail the the surface, and in turn, making it way more accessible to the audience, including myself, that's unfamiliar with either game.

I don't need to have played the games being discussed on Frame Trap to enjoy Frame Trap. That's what's so great about the format. They should be coming at new games/content that they want to stream in the same way.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,201
The experimental possibilities would surely make for a better stream than if everyone came in knowing exactly what they're going to do and just getting on with it?

I'd rather watch 2 hours of people pissing about trying to figure things out than 2 hours of people monotonously putting together the thing the've already done before.
 
Oct 28, 2017
382
I'm so bored of these "go-through-the-motions" group streams where everyone sits in a room while someone's playing a single player game. It just ends up with side conversations taking the up the majority of the screen time.
2019 Group Streams that fit this description:
Takeshi's Challenge - which while it got a slow start ended up being amazing by the time it got going
DMC5 - which we all took turns on, many of us got to see for the first time, and likewise essentially became a reactions vid when we got to the pre-vis videos
Jump Force - probably the closest to your description, but still, there was the opportunity to make a custom character
and... that's it.

So sure, you don't like those kinds of streams, but we do and we wouldn't have given any of those three up.
 
Nov 3, 2017
184
So sure, you don't like those kinds of streams, but we do and we wouldn't have given any of those three up.
That's not true, and that is not at all what I was suggesting. But as you point out with the examples, I'm overreacting in big picture, and there is more variety than what I'm giving credit for.

But I still stand by that I think Dreams is the obvious choice for Group Stream, and playing FFXIV in lieu is ill-suited for the Group Stream. It feels too much like a Metal Gear Survive stream.
 
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Oct 28, 2017
382
That's not true, and that is not at all what I was suggesting. But as you point out with the examples, I'm overreacting in big picture, and there is more variety than what I'm giving credit for.

But I still stand by that I think Dreams is the obvious choice for Group Stream, and playing FFXIV in lieu is ill-suited for the Group Stream. It feels too much like a Metal Gear Survive stream.
Sure, the FF XIV thing was never meant to be the star of the show. Like the DMC stream it still may be worthwhile to show off to everyone in the room if they're interested. Some of our hesitations with Dreams have already been expressed, but also Jones will likely be doing a lot with that game for quite some time. In any case we're still deciding and Dreams is on that list.
 
That's obviously not the kind of game he's referring to. There's an abstractness to strategy games (especially ones with sprites) that isn't there in a lot of other genres, especially an open world action RPG that's trying to draw you into that world like Assassin's Creed. Like, I can play as Sparta in Total War: Rome 2 but in Odyssey I'm like "fuck these guys."
The joke is that there's literally a game called Colonization where you murder Native Americans.

It'd be similarly funny if Kyle had said: "Who wants to play a game about Pirates? What game do you raid and conquer carribean towns in?" in a pre-release discussion of Black Flag.

The notion that we should let the abstractness of our actions in a game blind us to what historical horrors we're replaying is a somewhat different subject but also not something I agree with.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,710
Simple Dreams stream setup:
  1. Do the very opening of the game off stream (including the movement tutorial so that you can get right into the meat of exploring)
  2. Follow olit123 (the top content curator from the beta)
  3. Check out literally the majority of the best content in the beta categorized by the week it was created and go from there.I
  4. Take suggestions from chat (a lot of EZA fans were in the beta)
The progress takes very little time to learn. You can do a design stream later on when the Allies who are interested in creating have had more time with the game.I

There are more than enough interesting experiences from the beta to fill a group stream right now and that curator has everything in one single place that you can literally just hop from experience to experience. He has a good variety of stuff too, from the best models, to musical pieces, to paintings, to short stories, and even full game levels. It's all basically set up already. Just do the very basic intro stuff off screen before stream start and then it's basically like going on Youtube and checking out a playlist.
 
Oct 29, 2017
2,008
I played the closed beta. Watching the allies learn how to create things will not be a fun time. This isnt like farcry or the sims where your just slapping down pre created pieces in a small area. Dreams is an intense peice of creation software with a very extensive tutorial that is required to play if you want to have any idea what your doing when it comes to creating levels. Even if the allies do play through the tutorial together as soon as they got to the part where you can create your own levels there would still be a ton of "wait how do I do that again..." and people trying to explain the controls to each other while barely being informed themselves. It would be a bad time for the viewers and a really bad time for the allies as they try to make an entertaining two hours.

Let the allies play with the game themselves so they can come back and do a great stream.

However if they wanted to do a stream where they are just playing other peoples levels im sure that would be fine.
 
May 15, 2018
479
Scotland
I watched Game Informer do a stream where they just entered in random words (like shooter or RPG or Metal Gear) into the Dreams search and played whatever came up. It was a blast. No tutorial required for that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,710
I played the closed beta. Watching the allies learn how to create things will not be a fun time. This isnt like farcry or the sims where your just slapping down pre created pieces in a small area. Dreams is an intense peice of creation software with a very extensive tutorial that is required to play if you want to have any idea what your doing when it comes to creating levels. Even if the allies do play through the tutorial together as soon as they got to the part where you can create your own levels there would still be a ton of "wait how do I do that again..." and people trying to explain the controls to each other while barely being informed themselves. It would be a bad time for the viewers and a really bad time for the allies as they try to make an entertaining two hours.

Let the allies play with the game themselves so they can come back and do a great stream.

However if they wanted to do a stream where they are just playing other peoples levels im sure that would be fine.
Yeah, a creation stream would be out out the question for quite a while, but they can jump right into playing and we both know the reactions are going to be insane based on what we've played in the beta.
 
Oct 25, 2017
604
No, a Dreams creation stream on Day One (especially with people who weren't in the beta) would be pretty boring.

But a Dreamiverse stream on Day One would be a delight. There is SO MUCH content in the game already that would be a blast for them to check out.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,856
There's a couple of Trickster Qs I'm hopeful come up in this episode, they seem like the sort of thing Kyle would be furious about.

Also, this seems like fertile ground for "Achieve It Yourself"

 
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Just got around to listening to the podcast this morning. Always a good time. I have to say, for me personally, Final Fantasy X was the best entry point to the series. I was mostly a Sega kid growing up. I did have an NES, but I mostly just played Mega Man and never really encountered RPGs outside of random rentals from the local video store. Genesis didn't have a ton of RPGs for me to encounter. I mostly played arcade style games (shmups, fighters, etc.) and never really messed with much else for a long time. I bought FFVII on recommendation from our local game shop and hated it because I just didn't grok the appeal of turn based combat and other conventions of the genre.

Then I played Panzer Dragoon Saga, which really changed me and made me much more open to trying different genres. A couple of years later, I returned to Final Fantasy to try again with X around the time of its launch, and I was completely hooked. The story, combat, visuals, world, and characters are all pretty great and really captivated me. Since then, I've gone back and played the entire mainline series. Though I've only completed seven of them, I really appreciate every entry, even the "bad" ones. VI and IX are my favorites, but I think X maintains a lot of what makes Final Fantasy unique while also being modern enough to not put off new players. The only thing I feel really holds it back is its English voice work and localization, but there are some good performances in there and I am still able to get emotionally invested in the story as it is presented.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,839
There's no correct answer to best final fantasy to start, It depends on the taste of each person in regard to combat, story, setting, graphics. Its easier to ask What they like or not in j-rpg and choose a final fantasy that fits that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,248
The Waffle Kingdom
Star Wars celebration panels are always like that. I don't want to sound like I'm defending it because I think video games need a different approach and I really think EA needs to do better than this after all their bad press. But yeah, I fully expected this to be lackluster and it was. :/
 
Oct 28, 2017
382
Star Wars celebration panels are always like that. I don't want to sound like I'm defending it because I think video games need a different approach and I really think EA needs to do better than this after all their bad press. But yeah, I fully expected this to be lackluster and it was. :/
It just comes across as a misunderstanding of the medium. Imagine if they hyped up the movie and then somehow didn't show the movie, just a bunch of photographs and storyboards.
 
What are the demographics like at these Star Wars Celebrations? Would there be many gamers in the crowd at the panel or mostly fans of the movies who also decided to check in what this new video game is about? I can see why you'd rather try to sell casual players on the story instead of gameplay, particularly if the combat is "thoughtful" and deliberately paced, which could mean slow-ish and less flashy than you might expect based on film choreography.

Of course the panel was pretty thin gruel besides the trailer. That felt like the reveal schedule should have cleared a bit more information for this date. Or at least have more writers on stage who have more to say about the story than the designers.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,248
The Waffle Kingdom
It just comes across as a misunderstanding of the medium. Imagine if they hyped up the movie and then somehow didn't show the movie, just a bunch of photographs and storyboards.
Yeah, it's their movie approach and it really doesn't work with games. And it's not like a panel wouldn't have been a good time to show a nice amount of gameplay either, they actually have plenty of time! Bit of a shame, and it definitely feels rather out of touch to me. But that said I wouldn't be surprised if it works for their audience at these panels.

I mean, if I remember things correctly this is exactly what they did with the Battlefront games (2 for sure), so it doesn't feel like it'll change anytime soon.
 
Oct 29, 2017
2,008
What are the demographics like at these Star Wars Celebrations? Would there be many gamers in the crowd at the panel or mostly fans of the movies who also decided to check in what this new video game is about? I can see why you'd rather try to sell casual players on the story instead of gameplay, particularly if the combat is "thoughtful" and deliberately paced, which could mean slow-ish and less flashy than you might expect based on film choreography.

Of course the panel was pretty thin gruel besides the trailer. That felt like the reveal schedule should have cleared a bit more information for this date. Or at least have more writers on stage who have more to say about the story than the designers.
I think it's a pretty safe assumption that a lot of people who are diehard enough fans of star wars to go to a convention for it probably also play video games.
 
May 15, 2018
479
Scotland
I was just browsing the EZA Twitch and saw that according to the playlists Jones hasn't streamed a game in 6 months. That's a bummer. I basically missed out on all of his stream series from back in Year One of EZA, too. Hope he can find some time this year to stream outside of CoJ!
 
Oct 25, 2017
377
i’ll just throw in my two cents as well that I really hope they stream Dreams on Tuesday night. Not having familiarity with the creations actually would make the stream even better. Just skip the creation portion for now and dive deep into the delightful weirdness and some of the absurdly impressive things that have already been made.

A few months ago I watched Giant Bomb go through some of the beta and I think it might have been the most pure joy i’ve ever seen from Jeff Gerstmann. I’d think it’s highly likely many of the Allies would have a similarly good time with it as well.
 
Oct 25, 2017
648
I’m as excited as anyone here for a Dreams stream, but, I don’t think it would feel right without Ian there. If Ian will be back, then I say go for it. Otherwise, I think they should wait a week - and hopefully have multiple Dreams streams over the coming months, but yes, the initial one would be great to just have them pass the controller and see what random levels they can discover.
 
Oct 25, 2017
604
I’m as excited as anyone here for a Dreams stream, but, I don’t think it would feel right without Ian there. If Ian will be back, then I say go for it. Otherwise, I think they should wait a week - and hopefully have multiple Dreams streams over the coming months, but yes, the initial one would be great to just have them pass the controller and see what random levels they can discover.
Good news! They're streaming it Tuesday night and Tuesday morning, according to the website.

And yes, I hope Ian is there. If only because I miss Ian.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,352
i’ll just throw in my two cents as well that I really hope they stream Dreams on Tuesday night. Not having familiarity with the creations actually would make the stream even better. Just skip the creation portion for now and dive deep into the delightful weirdness and some of the absurdly impressive things that have already been made.

A few months ago I watched Giant Bomb go through some of the beta and I think it might have been the most pure joy i’ve ever seen from Jeff Gerstmann. I’d think it’s highly likely many of the Allies would have a similarly good time with it as well.
So it's confirmed then that the Dreams Early Access will allow you to play others' creations? I had assumed it would be exclusively create mode.

If you can play other peoples' stuff, then I agree that they should stream it.
 
Nov 3, 2017
8,126
I don't usually agree with Damiani, but this is definitely one of those times. I don't hate or love Star Wars and I'm just approaching it as I do any other game.

Nothing about the Fallen Order trailer caught my interest.
 
Oct 25, 2017
377
So it's confirmed then that the Dreams Early Access will allow you to play others' creations? I had assumed it would be exclusively create mode.

If you can play other peoples' stuff, then I agree that they should stream it.
I’m 99% sure you’ll be able to play others creations as I believe everything from the beta (a tonnn of content) was saved and will just rollover to this release. The creation content is robust as hell, but it probably would not make a super interesting 2 hour stream as you can go down a rabbit hole with it all and hardly get anywhere the first time.

While early access is great idea and people will get a head start before it goes more widespread, a super important aspect of it is community curation.

Also, awesome that it looks like they’re now doing Dreams. For those that have been in the dark about it until now, i’d urge you to just go in blind and enjoy the insanity for the first time with everyone else.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,974
You beat me to this. I was going to say the same thing. So many people called out Damiani, and here we are roughly 3 months later and he is completely vindicated.
Vindicated for saying it’s be dead in a week? Sorry no

The fact respawn botched the season pass doesn’t suddenly validate Damiani’s claim it was a fluke surge for a week or 2
 
Oct 25, 2017
648
Vindicated for saying it’s be dead in a week? Sorry no

The fact respawn botched the season pass doesn’t suddenly validate Damiani’s claim it was a fluke surge for a week or 2
IIRC Damiani’s main point was that it would not outlast Fortnite and that the numbers it was pulling at launch were not at all sustainable. People believed Apex would be on-par with Fortnite for a long time...that it would not be a flash in the pan. I took the “dead in a week” comment to be tongue-in-cheek.

I have to go back and rewatch, but I’d say the crux of his argument has stood the test of time.

EDIT: Damiani suggested it would follow a similar path to that of Sea of Thieves and be hot for two or three weeks. Granted, it doubled those numbers, but it is clear Apex has not had the longevity people anticipated.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
604
So it's confirmed then that the Dreams Early Access will allow you to play others' creations? I had assumed it would be exclusively create mode.

If you can play other peoples' stuff, then I agree that they should stream it.
I think the only thing missing from the Dreams Early Access is the story mode that MediaMolecule is saving for the full retail release. And VR, but there's a chance it might pop into Early Access at a later date.

And besides, it'd be kinda annoying for creators to not get feedback from the community on their creations. Not to mention the very core of Dreams is about community creation and sharing so I think we can safely assume that like the beta, you'll be able to play and use other people's stuff.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,938
IIRC Damiani’s main point was that it would not outlast Fortnite and that the numbers it was pulling at launch were not at all sustainable. People believed Apex would be on-par with Fortnite for a long time...that it would not be a flash in the pan. I took the “dead in a week” comment to be tongue-in-cheek.

I have to go back and rewatch, but I’d say the crux of his argument has stood the test of time.

EDIT: Damiani suggested it would follow a similar path to that of Sea of Thieves and be hot for two or three weeks. Granted, it doubled those numbers, but it is clear Apex has not had the longevity people anticipated.
If Damiani had predicted that Respawn would botch the season pass and would kill their own momentum, then I'd give him all the credit. His take was too vague and needlessly pessimistic, which is why it bothered some people at the time. Everyone can be pessimistic and be right 50% of the time.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,710
I mean, who could have expected Respawn to kill their own momentum with such a horrible battle pass and a refusal to make quick updates. That's not how people like their GaaS.