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MrMette

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,303
Belgium
This is a cop out. Adult people should know not to be racist, sexist, addicted to drugs, steal, kill etc but they go ahead and do it anyway. Violence in video games is so rarely targeted like the sexualisation of women is. You're killing zombies, or bandits, or monsters, or demons. If a game had you only killing women with extreme violence, this would be an entirely different conversation. Violence in games is equal opportunity, sexualisation is not.
Sure, I can see that. I totally understand that some adults can handle that stuff and others can't and that this is the case with a lot of things in life.
The thing is that a lot of people can play those games and still behave like good human beings afterwards. But I wouldn't be upset of toning stuff like down in some of the games. It's just very difficult to create something that fits for everybody.

Women were unfortunately treated like crap way before video games existed, that for sure doesn't make it ok and I agree that we should do everything in our power to make that a thing of the past, I am just not convinced that not showing nudity in games will have a lot of impact on that.

I do think that it's weird that it's usually women that are depicted nude instead of men (or a mix of both). I personally would prefer to watch nude women over men, but it's for sure something that I always found somewhat weird and I guess that's for sure sexism creeping in.
 

Dmax3901

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,865
Sure, I can see that. I totally understand that some adults can handle that stuff and others can't and that this is the case with a lot of things in life.
The thing is that a lot of people can play those games and still behave like good human beings afterwards. But I wouldn't be upset of toning stuff like down in some of the games. It's just very difficult to create something that fits for everybody.

Women were unfortunately treated like crap way before video games existed, that for sure doesn't make it ok and I agree that we should do everything in our power to make that a thing of the past, I am just not convinced that not showing nudity in games will have a lot of impact on that.

I do think that it's weird that it's usually women that are depicted nude instead of men (or a mix of both). I personally would prefer to watch nude women over men, but it's for sure something that I always found somewhat weird and I guess that's for sure sexism creeping in.
I don't have a problem with nudity/sex full stop, it just has to be done well. I honestly can't think of a genuinely well-handled sex scene in a video game off the top of my head. My big issue is when gamers, fearing censorship, point towards violence in video games as some kind of hypocrisy. It's never that simple.
 

El-Suave

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,829
I was absolutely not fine with Kyle (who is surprisingly corporate when it comes to Twitch) and some of the panel being casually fine with censorship in any form when it comes to streaming.
As a German we've been getting the shitty end of censorship deal for decades and just now we're at a place where games are about to get recognized as something that can be art and Mortal Kombat (which I don't even care that much about) can finally come out uncensored and we also hopefully even left the swastika ban behind with a sound solution. That's what you do, you look for and work on solutions to these problems. The last thing we need is to get widespread games censorship back again because it's the easy way out for people to still make money.
 

Sheldon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,331
Ruhrgebiet, Germany
A Love and Respect where a dad was saying he'd be fine playing through the original God of War games with his kids when they got a bit older if it weren't for the sex/nudity scenes.

The question raised my eyebrows by half an inch, too, mainly because wanting to introduce your kids to old problematic Kratos after they enjoyed new whitewashed Kratos - except you don't want them to see the sexual side of his toxic masculinity, only the violent side - is such a weird thought process to me. But kids grow up at different speeds, parents are better at explaining some things than others, and I'm not familiar enough with the God of War franchise to judge.

Keep in mind, though, that the question was about an optional method to disable certain content with an on/off switch based a player's personal preference. Not about censorship. So discussions of a double standard in this context don't actually work to deflect from the question of whether "mah titties!" need saving or not.

The next question would be how easy is it in practice to filter out sex and violence. You can turn off blood and gore, yet that doesn't solve the problem of who the violence is done to and for what reason. Similarly, you can snip out nude scenes, but covering up a naked body won't be enough if the woman is treated as an object regardless.
 

MrMette

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,303
Belgium
I was absolutely not fine with Kyle (who is surprisingly corporate when it comes to Twitch) and some of the panel being casually fine with censorship in any form when it comes to streaming.
As a German we've been getting the shitty end of censorship deal for decades and just now we're at a place where games are about to get recognized as something that can be art and Mortal Kombat (which I don't even care that much about) can finally come out uncensored and we also hopefully even left the swastika ban behind with a sound solution. That's what you do, you look for and work on solutions to these problems. The last thing we need is to get widespread games censorship back again because it's the easy way out for people to still make money.
Nobody is asking for censorship. People are asking for a toggle to enable and disable that stuff, so people can decide for themselves if they want that content or not. I am personally very much against censorship, but a toggle (which let's people choose if they want that type of content) or not or maybe a slider with a couple of options is no problem imo. I honestly think it would be a good thing.

Hell, they can even force the toggle if the account has age restrictions and stuff like that (which I am ok with as this is then forced by the parents and not by the government or the industry) .

I would probably not use that toggle myself, but I can see how some people ask for something like this to either stream it for all ages, play some games with younger family members or because they don't care for extreme violence or nudity.

I don't see a problem with that as long as it's not forced on everybody. It's the same as the difficulty discussion. I don't think all games should have something like this, but I do think it can be a positive aid for people who are interested in the gameplay, but not necessarily in the violence and/or nudity.

It's all about choices. I only see it as a positive if you let people choose how to play a game.
I personally don't see that as censorship.
 
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klastical

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,712
Absolutely, but I would say there is quite an enormous gap between something like God of War 1/2/3 (especially with the dated visuals) and a game known for it's ridiculous dedication to gore, and another that's all about horrific realism.

Sure but at the same time it seems equally weird to hand waive away the violence because the graphics are no longer cutting edge and then turn around and get up in arms about the sex acts depicted in the same games.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,946
The nudity vs violence is a weird thing, at least here in the US and from what I've experienced. I feel like what made it weird for the dad in the L&R segment is, as the Allies point out, a scene designed to arouse is real weird for a parent to be watching with their kid. That said I have seen parents in a gaming store ask why is a game rated M and when the clerk explains because of graphic violence the parent will go "but no nudity right?", and buy the game based on that last part. That's the thing I've always found weird. One could argue it is because gaming has had awful representation of sexual themes in the past, it from what I've heard the parents don't even dig that deep they just want to know if boobs are shown or not. I also feel like those negative representations of sexual themes in games will and have been in decline and I don't think many will include nudity even in a positive representation for the sole reason of people being weirded out about nudity.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,039
Yeah, a woman moaning on screen and me getting an erection would probably be a little more awkward than ripping some cyclops eyeball out.

But thats just me.
 

noah rayne

Member
Apr 4, 2018
127
Vancouver, BC
I don't know if we can equivocate "it would be nice to have the option to skip cutscenes or gameplay involving sexual stuff for a variety of reasons, like if your young kid was in the room or something" and "we have to banish everything sexy to the shadow realm forever". More options is a good thing, and also isn't.... censorship???

(Also yes Ian will be back for E3, I'm like 99% sure this was mentioned on like a CoJ or something)
 
Oct 27, 2017
16,559
Yeah, it wasn't that long of a gap. I was on my my honeymoon at the time, so it was a couple weeks before I was even back in LA to officially meet with Defy, hand in my keys, etc. And even from where I was staying, a lot of time was spent just trying to keep up with the enormous outflow of messages from the community, and listening to Shane air a bunch of behind the scenes stories about why GT went downhill, some that even I didn't know.

In that time, Brandon took care of packing up all the gear, the library, etc. Then we met at his place to basically have a free for all on that stuff, and that's when Brandon first pitched the idea of doing something together and starting a Patreon, which we all said we'd be in for, but didn't really know what it would look like or believe it would be an actual job. One of the reasons group stream night starts when it does is because the whole idea was that we could come to Brandon's after work, stream together, then shoot the podcast. The rest of the goals were all pretty distant, but we could at least do that. Maybe once in a while, we could put together a review, etc.

So while we were putting together things behind the scenes like grabbing URLs for all the channels and social media accounts, we were also looking for work and passing along job opportunities for each other. I applied to Nintendo, Game Informer, CD Projekt Red, and I think a few other places. I drove up to GDC and slept on the floor of a friend's hotel room, largely to connect with people and look for jobs, and there was a lot of warm support from people throughout the industry. We'd already posted the launch date teaser on social media so a few people tried pressuring me into telling them what we were up to, but I kept my mouth shut.

A few days later, we had the launch stream, more money came into the Patreon than we could have possibly imagined, and we blew through goals that we thought were months away, so it was time to get to work.
Thanks for the insight Blood.

Was the stuff with Shane released on YouTube?
 

El-Suave

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,829
...
It's all about choices. I only see it as a positive if you let people choose how to play a game.
I personally don't see that as censorship.

I'm just thinking that some games won't look good anymore if you i.e. fade to black or have cuts or pixelation very often. It isn't a good look for the streamer nor the publisher. You rob the game of its identity. Any true adjustments require a lot of additional development effort and I'm afraid the easy and practical way out for devs and publishers is to tone down the violence or sex outright and we never even know it.
 

Gaming_Groove

Member
Apr 4, 2018
2,813
Achieve It Yourself is excellent. I think it would have been a good idea to have Episode 2 already up on Patreon though as an incentive for people to donate. "The next episode is available right now if you join our Patreon for at least $1." Gotta create that sense of urgency to make the sale...worked on me with Floatplane and Scrapyard Wars.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,550
Achieve It Yourself is excellent. I think it would have been a good idea to have Episode 2 already up on Patreon though as an incentive for people to donate. "The next episode is available right now if you join our Patreon for at least $1." Gotta create that sense of urgency to make the sale...worked on me with Floatplane and Scrapyard Wars.
This is a great point. I wonder if it might've been better to release the first episode publicly after we'd gotten the second episode on Patreon... Something to consider, I think, for the future.
 

MrMette

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,303
Belgium
I'm just thinking that some games won't look good anymore if you i.e. fade to black or have cuts or pixelation very often. It isn't a good look for the streamer nor the publisher. You rob the game of its identity. Any true adjustments require a lot of additional development effort and I'm afraid the easy and practical way out for devs and publishers is to tone down the violence or sex outright and we never even know it.
I agree, it's not something I would personally use either as it would probably annoy me a lot. That said, who am I to tell people that this is won't work or won't look good if those people are ok with those cutbacks. I don't see why you can't enjoy most games without extreme violence of nudity, but sure, for some games it will be almost impossible to implement something like this.

As far as the implementation goes, I agree that it's probably not as easy to do depending on what needs to be done.
Removing blood shaders is probably an easy toggle, but changing complete cut-scenes isn't.

Btw, I am against making stuff like this mandatory. It's something the dev in question should decide if they want to implement this or not.
I do think it's feasible for some games, it won't be for others. It probably never will be widely spread, but I do think it's a good idea to implement in games as an option.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,039
Achieve It Yourself is excellent. I think it would have been a good idea to have Episode 2 already up on Patreon though as an incentive for people to donate. "The next episode is available right now if you join our Patreon for at least $1." Gotta create that sense of urgency to make the sale...worked on me with Floatplane and Scrapyard Wars.

Good idea.

Only hope is that these aren't all Switch games. I don't have any knowledge about switch games, so it'd be nice to see NES and Snes games. Even something like Mario 64.
 

Murasaki

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,726
The Deep North
All hail Blood, the Achievement Master! Achieve it Yourself was great! I knew it would be funny but I wasn't expecting it to be that tense. Roll on next Thursday.
 

jondgc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,208
Achieve It Yourself was destined to be a winner as soon as the idea was born back on Friend Code, and now here we are, and it is amazing. Definitely agree with others that this type of show is ripe for evergreen content and will hopefully be expanded beyond the original run of episodes. Eventually, as EZA creates more and more original shows for Patreon, I'd love a yearly "seasonal" rotation.
 

abrack

Unshakable Resolve
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,785
DFW
Good idea.

Only hope is that these aren't all Switch games. I don't have any knowledge about switch games, so it'd be nice to see NES and Snes games. Even something like Mario 64.
They specifically called for Switch games when gathering submissions from Patrons. I guess Kyle could have called an audible if someone submitted a really good one not on the Switch, but it will probably be 100% Switch games.
 

Philippo

Developer
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
7,903
Butt clenching moment right there with Yoshi.

Really amazing format, hope they make multiple seasons of it.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,946
Oh my god, first whoever edited that was amazing and thanks for including the part about yoshi being ridden must be a part of yoshi culture!

Secondly, they have to keep this going. It seems like a show that doesn't require a lot of set up but produces tons of golden moments.
 

DannyVice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
456
Achieve It Yourself feels like some of the smartest and most creative shows Easy Allies put up, loved it. Much kudos!
 

Zeroro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,406
Achieve it Yourself is really great. Hopefully it pulls in a ton of new patrons.

I already want a Season 2.
 
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