Easy Allies |OT2| Love & Reset

Hasney

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,134
Also there needs to be points for counter picking something that doesn't release.
Disagree with that part. It's so easy to draft games that will get 70's unless you take big risks, so getting a 0 on the counter pick is reward enough. I'd rather reward people that managed to pick out a bad game over just no release.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,307
UK
Disagree with that part. It's so easy to draft games that will get 70's unless you take big risks, so getting a 0 on the counter pick is reward enough. I'd rather reward people that managed to pick out a bad game over just no release.
Well, I also I think the 70 is to low a threshold for points, if you lost points for scores lower than 80, 75 perhaps then counter picking can stay as is. I just think it's so easy to not lose points ( unless you are klastical ) as most games get over 70 that almost every counter pick loses you points unless you have counter picked something that doesn't release.
 

Aadiboy

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,287
Lol, in this month's Q&A, Blood was the only one who understood the video adaptation question but Kyle brushed him off and told him he was wrong, even though he was wrong.
 

abrack

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
971
DFW
Disagree with that part. It's so easy to draft games that will get 70's unless you take big risks, so getting a 0 on the counter pick is reward enough. I'd rather reward people that managed to pick out a bad game over just no release.
You're right, it's SO easy to draft games that'll get above a 70 😏

 

LiquidSolid

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,541
Well, I also I think the 70 is to low a threshold for points, if you lost points for scores lower than 80, 75 perhaps then counter picking can stay as is. I just think it's so easy to not lose points ( unless you are klastical ) as most games get over 70 that almost every counter pick loses you points unless you have counter picked something that doesn't release.
I think that'd just play into the ridiculous "everything under 80 is bad" mindset some people have with Metacritic/Opencritic, when in reality 75 is still a great score.
 

RugoUniverse

Member
May 15, 2018
579
Scotland
Does anyone know if the first 10 episodes of Talking Syndrome are available anywhere or are they lost to time? I can only find it starting with ep.11 and 12 on YouTube and the Twitch archive.
 

Bloodworth

Member
Oct 28, 2017
446
Does anyone know if the first 10 episodes of Talking Syndrome are available anywhere or are they lost to time? I can only find it starting with ep.11 and 12 on YouTube and the Twitch archive.
I don't think there were Talking Syndromes for the first 10 episodes. The description on ep 11/12 seems to confirm this as it starts "On this new live partner series, "
 

MrMette

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,294
Belgium
It's true. They got an earthquake during the shoot. It didn't seem too serious though (even though I don't know anything about earthquakes as there isn't a lot of chance of them happening over here), but you can see the camera/TV's in the background move.

I believe the only earthquake I ever was in was about 30 years ago during the night when we were on holidays in a caravan in the north of the country and I slept through the whole thing (my parents and sister woke up, but I apparently didn't). So they don't happen a lot over here. I'm also sure it really happened and they didn't pull my leg as you could as we went into the Netherlands the day after to go to a pancake place and some of the chimneys of houses fell down.
 
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Hasney

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,134
Some of the entries for the Glinny game jam are coming and oh my god at this one.


I only watched the video up until the hot springs scene and I love it
 

issa

Member
Oct 26, 2017
900
Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
Regarding the Epic store discussion on the podcast, I disagree with Damiani. It is mostly brand loyalty and wanting your games to be on a single store. The DRM argument doesn't pass once you realize Steam has their own DRM. Whiny PC gamers want to make it a console wars thing, except consoles cost money while store fronts are free. Nothing stopping you from getting the game you want from the other store.
 

Hasney

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,134
Regarding the Epic store discussion on the podcast, I disagree with Damiani. It is mostly brand loyalty and wanting your games to be on a single store. The DRM argument doesn't pass once you realize Steam has their own DRM. Whiny PC gamers want to make it a console wars thing, except consoles cost money while store fronts are free. Nothing stopping you from getting the game you want from the other store.
Nah, I have every launcher apart from the EGS (and Bethesda, purely because there's nothing on there I want to play that I haven't already got elsewhere) and I don't want to support the practices Epic are doing. I don't want to spend more money because there's no store competition with the likes of GMG for a worse experience with less features just because Epic showed up with a big bag of cash. Tim Sweeny's responses to everything are terrible and employing the guy behind Steam Spy, who bitched and moaned about Steam taking action to comply with the GDPR because it hurt his precious sales data, not disclosing he was employed by Epic for months before that, saying then it's not in "Epics best interests" to display the data he was bitching at Valve for not displaying and still running his Patreon for Steam Spy is shady as all fuck.

Not only that, but even after completley scrambling my password to the point where I didn't know it, I still kept getting 2FA notifications from Epic until I had to get them to delete my account.

I don't blame any developer for taking the money, but I'm not buying their game if they do. In some of these cases, depending on how the developer/publisher deal is worked out, developers might not even be seeing much of the extra money and it just going to the publisher anyway.

I'm sure brand loyalty is there for some people, but just look through the threads here. People have had to compile Google Docs to stop that shitposting narritive because there are very real reasons and concerns not to use the EGS.
 

Rickenslacker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,438
I'm generally with Ian on it in that hey get on it with cloud saves already, but otherwise it's just capitalism at work and nothing's done out of kindness. There's definitely validity to not wanting to use it if they don't have region pricing for you but Steam does, but in the case of Shenmue 3 where things are already paid and accounted for I just have to roll my eyes at outrage towards that like I do with most of the overreaction towards EGS.
 

Hasney

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,134
There's definitely validity to not wanting to use it if they don't have region pricing for you but Steam does
Even then, when compared to 3rd party stores that EGS are blocking (or signing agreements with to sell at RRP only), games are more expensive through EGS in the US than official key resellers such as GMG. If for some reason you only bought games direct through Steam, then the prices are the same in most cases (I think only Metro Exodus dropped the price by $10 in the US?) for less features. The consumer is seeing less for their dollar.

The really annoying thing with this practice from Epic is that grey market stores that just gut physical copies from other regions are completley unaffected, so you either pay more as a consumer, or take advantage of regional pricing which some developers have said hurts them. Thanks Epic!
 

Rickenslacker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,438
Even then, when compared to 3rd party stores that EGS are blocking (or signing agreements with to sell at RRP only), games are more expensive through EGS in the US than official key resellers such as GMG. If for some reason you only bought games direct through Steam, then the prices are the same in most cases (I think only Metro Exodus dropped the price by $10 in the US?) for less features. The consumer is seeing less for their dollar.

The really annoying thing with this practice from Epic is that grey market stores that just gut physical copies from other regions are completley unaffected, so you either pay more as a consumer, or take advantage of regional pricing which some developers have said hurts them. Thanks Epic!
my gripe with the features angle is that there are things on steam that i can not opt out of that make my experience worse (marketplace, big picture), and a lot of others are redundancies with better alternatives found elsewhere (chat, guides, streaming, mods). it looks nice for list wars, but the real feature i feel most are concerned with is having a place with most of their games there. but damn epic sure could hurry up with those cloud saves because it really should not take this long to implement.

i just find in terms of market disruption having timed exclusives is perhaps the most benign and least impactful long term, so the uproar i see about it all has me feeling like the energy could be better placed elsewhere.
 

Hasney

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,134
i just find in terms of market disruption having timed exclusives is perhaps the most benign and least impactful long term, so the uproar i see about it all has me feeling like the energy could be better placed elsewhere.
Oh yeah, I agree with that. The angry people are crazy, but people should be entitled to refunds if they're not getting what they paid for and it seems like it's the only way to get people to listen quite often. For games I only want to play on PC that become EGS exclusive, it's easy enough to ignore and get them on Game Pass or if I'm waiting anyway, waiting on a deep discount. There's plenty of great games out there to play other than those one or two that get made exclusive.
 

MrMette

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,294
Belgium
I have EGS installed and I get their "free games" each 2 weeks, but I don't plan on buying a single game on their storefront.
I own way too many games on Steam (most of them through bundles) and own quite a few of them on GOG (a lot of them because I owned them on Steam through their GOG Connect thingy). I don't want to buy anything on an other storefront.

For me the main thing is that I would prefer most of my games to be on the same store. That said, I hated steam when I had to download it to play the CS 1.4 beta and I hated it for many years after that (because it constantly crashed back then and it was shitty software, that was before it was a storefront), so who knows.

I do think it's a 50/50 split of people wanting everything on Steam because of the brand and people not liking the fact that Epic is doing exclusivity deals as it's not something PC usually had to deal with. It was mainly a console thing (except for some publishers doing selling their own games). I don't think anyone would complain that Fortnite or other Epic games were exclusive to their store. They complain because they buy off publishers and devs even for games that were backed as a Steamkey on kickstarter or were already on sale on Steam.

I personally don't like what they are doing (even though it doesn't matter too much as I tend to play more on console anyway), but I do understand devs going for it (especially Indie devs). I don't agree with kickstarted games going for it though or games that were already sold on Steam. I also don't believe that they are going to stop going for exclusives if Steam goes for a 12/88 split like they say they would.

As far as refunds go. I do think people who kickstarted a game with the promise of a Steam key should get a refund (the emails I received for the Shenmue 3 PC version clearly stated Steam, but I pledged for the PS4 version, so it doesn't matter for me). It's a nice powermove of Epic to give them that refund, but I do think it's a bit shitty as they created that problem to begin with.

As an example:
I probably would have bought Anno 1800 if it didn't change to Epic Exclusive. I received an email from steam to buy it before that happened, but I usually don't buy PC games full price, so I didn't. So that costed them a sale. I just prefer my games to be at one or two storefronts for convenience.

As far as DRM goes. I don't think they meant Steam didn't have DRM. GOG doesn't have DRM, but I think most other stores do.

I honestly think EZA did a good job covering the Epic Storefront news.
 
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Primethius

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,226
I'm generally with Ian on it in that hey get on it with cloud saves already, but otherwise it's just capitalism at work and nothing's done out of kindness. There's definitely validity to not wanting to use it if they don't have region pricing for you but Steam does, but in the case of Shenmue 3 where things are already paid and accounted for I just have to roll my eyes at outrage towards that like I do with most of the overreaction towards EGS.
I'm not quite understanding why Shenmue 3 is a case of overreaction. Videogame consumer rights, in the US especially, are basically... shit.

Now I can't even get a game for the storefront I explicitly selected at the time of payment because Epic is coming around and throwing some money around at a far later date, much closer to launch?

I don't see it much different than owning multiple consoles plus PC tbh. If I buy a single player game for PS4, I clearly don't want the PC version despite my PC being stronger and more flexible.
 

Rickenslacker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,438
I'm not quite understanding why Shenmue 3 is a case of overreaction. Videogame consumer rights, in the US especially, are basically... shit.

Now I can't even get a game for the storefront I explicitly selected at the time of payment because Epic is coming around and throwing some money around at a far later date, much closer to launch?

I don't see it much different than owning multiple consoles plus PC tbh. If I buy a single player game for PS4, I clearly don't want the PC version despite my PC being stronger and more flexible.
kickstarters are not preorders and are always something to be wary of, but in this case the platform is pc all the same. to someone who's already bought a copy you're just downloading it somewhere else.
 

Primethius

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,226
kickstarters are not preorders and are always something to be wary of, but in this case the platform is pc all the same. to someone who's already bought a copy you're just downloading it somewhere else.
With less features however. So again, to me it's like a PS4/Xbox type of situation. Just because I own an X, doesn't mean I want a game on X if I specifically bought it on PS4, or vice versa. I don't need companies changing my purchasing decisions for me when I specifically choose a platform and a storefront.

If someone says, Steam key, PS4 digital code, Xbox code, that's precisely what I expect barring an act of God.
 

Rickenslacker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,438
With less features however. So again, to me it's like a PS4/Xbox type of situation. Just because I own an X, doesn't mean I want a game on X if I specifically bought it on PS4, or vice versa. I don't need companies changing my purchasing decisions for me when I specifically choose a platform and a storefront.

If someone says, Steam key, PS4 digital code, Xbox code, that's precisely what I expect barring an act of God.
features. it's a pc! you have limitless features at your fingertips. someone hasn't waited 20 years to get shenmue 3 with the tipping point being steam trading cards coming with it.
 

Primethius

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,226
features. it's a pc! you have limitless features at your fingertips. someone hasn't waited 20 years to get shenmue 3 with the tipping point being steam trading cards coming with it.
But Shenmue 3 through EGS lacks the features of Steam? So it's limited features due to the storefront, on top of the company promising one version and delivering another.
 

Rickenslacker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,438
But Shenmue 3 through EGS lacks the features of Steam? So it's limited features due to the storefront, on top of the company promising one version and delivering another.
i don't want to talk about features on nebulous terms here, so to reiterate -- it's a pc. you're not locked down to any store's given feature set because you can pretty much do whatever you want, including adding the shortcut to steam and still use things like steam overlay, steam controller support, and so on. go nuts! like, all things being equal, if i had the choice to get something on steam or egs, equal pricing and dates, just the difference between the program itself, i'd grab it on steam 100% of the time, but when i have to use egs for something it's just... not a big deal.
 

Primethius

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,226
i don't want to talk about features on nebulous terms here, so to reiterate -- it's a pc. you're not locked down to any store's given feature set because you can pretty much do whatever you want, including adding the shortcut to steam and still use things like steam overlay, steam controller support, and so on. go nuts! like, all things being equal, if i had the choice to get something on steam or egs, equal pricing and dates, just the difference between the program itself, i'd grab it on steam 100% of the time, but when i have to use egs for something it's just... not a big deal.
Sure, and I won't be nebulous either. Not all features on Steam work with third-party executables that you add to it. Steam family sharing for example. Then there's other features that make life easier if a game implements them (mod workshop, cloud saves etc). It's not feature parity and I shouldn't be forced to get the version of a game that requires more work for me when I paid for a key for a different, better, version.
 

MrMette

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,294
Belgium
kickstarters are not preorders and are always something to be wary of, but in this case the platform is pc all the same. to someone who's already bought a copy you're just downloading it somewhere else.
I agree that backing a kickstarter isn't the same as buying something on a store. And again, it doesn't matter for me as I wasn't planning on getting Shenmue 3 on PC anyway, but they send out multiple emails which clearly stated "Steam" and not "PC" during and after the kickstarter was funded. There isn't much discussion that changing this is a shady thing to do. Even the poll to choose which version you wanted stated "Steam" and not "PC".

I understand that some people don't care as long as they can play the game and that is perfectly fine, but it was already known some people did care about that when they changed to EGS.

Is it the end of the world? No. Is it going to cost you goodwill for next kickstarter projects or any other game you will create on PC? I can almost guarantee it. I am not convinced this was a Ys.net decision as Deep Silver made that decission a couple of times before Shenmue, but it's going to keep coming up with their next games. I don't think a dev that had so much trouble getting their game funded needs this kind of negative press.

Also it's not because you don't care that other people's opinions on this aren't valid. They paid money for this all the same. Some people don't care as long as they can play the game, others feel like they paid for the Steam version (as this was mentioned plenty of times over the years on their kickstarter) and they probably wouldn't have pledged if it wasn't on Steam. It's obvious to me they feel betrayed, there is nothing wrong with that.

Ys.net/Deep Silver didn't do anything illegal, but it's close to it as they mentioned Steam before changing it after the kickstarter was funded and I don't think it's a good look. Shenmue 4, 5 and 6 will have a lot more trouble getting funded when they are going to be crowdfunded (no sane company will try to fund these money-losing games themselves any more).

The end result is that instead of the story not being complete with Shenmue 2 with no sequel in sight that the story will not be complete with Shenmue 3 and no sequel in sight. I don't think their next kickstarter will be as successful as this one was and they will have a lot more trouble finding a publisher for Shenmue 4 because of all this.

Hell, I think crowdfunding games in general is getting more difficult because of stuff like this (and that sucks for small indie devs).
People lose their trust in crowdfunding because of bad experiences (I for one will probably never crowdfund some electric product any more). Let alone if gaming news sites are full with articles about this.
 
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Rickenslacker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,438
Sure, and I won't be nebulous either. Not all features on Steam work with third-party executables that you add to it. Steam family sharing for example. Then there's other features that make life easier if a game implements them (mod workshop, cloud saves etc). It's not feature parity and I shouldn't be forced to get the version of a game that requires more work for me when I paid for a key for a different, better, version.
cloud saves are a thing that need to be added, like, asap. definitely! though mod workshop is just a limited version of what pcs already allow with modding, which brings me to the post i had earlier of a bunch of steam features being redundant in the first place. though since family sharing already requires a login on the target computer you can also simply have the account logged into and the game downloaded and played without the launcher, since egs allows that.

i just find the general response disproportionate to the minor differences in the end result.

I agree that backing a kickstarter isn't the same as buying something on a store. And again, it doesn't matter for me as I wasn't planning on getting Shenmue 3 on PC anyway, but they send out multiple emails which clearly stated "Steam" and not "PC" during and after the kickstarter was funded. There isn't much discussion that changing this is a shady thing to do. Even the poll to choose which version you wanted stated "Steam" and not "PC".

I understand that some people don't care as long as they can play the game and that is perfectly fine, but it was already known some people did care about that when they changed to EGS.

Is it the end of the world? No. Is it going to cost you goodwill for next kickstarter projects or any other game you will create on PC? I can almost guarantee it. I am not convinced this was a Ys.net decision as Deep Silver made that decission a couple of times before Shenmue, but it's going to keep coming up with their next games. I don't think a dev that had so much trouble getting their game funded needs this kind of negative press.

Also it's not because you don't care that other people's opinions on this aren't valid. They paid money for this all the same. Some people don't care as long as they can play the game, others feel like they paid for the Steam version (as this was mentioned plenty of times over the years on their kickstarter) and they probably wouldn't have pledged if it wasn't on Steam. It's obvious to me they feel betrayed, there is nothing wrong with that.

Ys.net/Deep Silver didn't do anything illegal, but it's close to it as they mentioned Steam before changing it after the kickstarter was funded and I don't think it's a good look. Shenmue 4, 5 and 6 will have a lot more trouble getting funded when they are going to be crowdfunded (no sane company will try to fund these money-losing games themselves any more).

The end result is that instead of the story not being complete with Shenmue 2 with no sequel in sight that the story will not be complete with Shenmue 3 and no sequel in sight. I don't think their next kickstarter will be as successful as this one was and they will have a lot more trouble finding a publisher for Shenmue 4 because of all this.

Hell, I think crowdfunding games in general is getting more difficult because of stuff like this (and that sucks for small indie devs).
People lose their trust in crowdfunding because of bad experiences (I for one will probably never crowdfund some electric product any more). Let alone if gaming news sites are full with articles about this.
yeah, kickstarters are definitely backed on trust, and i think the model going forward has had enough good will broken that any project is going to have a harder time going at it than it used to. though with regards to stating steam opposed to pc, that was a bad move on their part, though at the time i could see why they wouldn't have considered otherwise writing it -- because there was nothing else to consider, steam had basically become synonymous with pc, so at least in my eyes i like the shake up being attempted even if there are some growing pains with it.
 

Primethius

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,226
cloud saves are a thing that need to be added, like, asap. definitely! though mod workshop is just a limited version of what pcs already allow with modding, which brings me to the post i had earlier of a bunch of steam features being redundant in the first place. though since family sharing already requires a login on the target computer you can also simply have the account logged into and the game downloaded and played without the launcher, since egs allows that.

i just find the general response disproportionate to the minor differences in the end result.

yeah, kickstarters are definitely backed on trust, and i think the model going forward has had enough good will broken that any project is going to have a harder time going at it than it used to. though with regards to stating steam opposed to pc, that was a bad move on their part, though at the time i could see why they wouldn't have considered otherwise writing it -- because there was nothing else to consider, steam had basically become synonymous with pc, so at least in my eyes i like the shake up being attempted even if there are some growing pains with it.
And as I said, the same argument can be used for PS4/XB1 versions of games which often are functionally the same. I own both, I buy the Xbox version of a single player game and get the PS4 code instead. No biggie. Just some minor OS differences between the two but the game is the same.
 

Rickenslacker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,438
And as I said, the same argument can be used for PS4/XB1 versions of games which often are functionally the same. I own both, I buy the Xbox version of a single player game and get the PS4 code instead. No biggie. Just some minor OS differences between the two but the game is the same.
you own both, but not everyone does, it's different hardware, different hundreds of dollars purchases, different subscriptions, and a bigger blunder given that the chances of someone overlapping with both is significantly more slim -- but to someone who does own both, and in a scenario where the game performs identically across, it really isn't a biggie like you said. though in this case it is the same hardware and you're just logging into a different free service.
 

Hamchan

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,580
A bit LTTP but props to Damiani for his FFXIV post a couple of weeks back: https://www.patreon.com/posts/road-to-useful-27803181

I am so close to resubbing to this game after bowing out pre-Stormblood and the only thing stopping me is the guilt of all the other games I’m playing and my current Game Pass sub. I can’t stop thinking about FFXIV though and people praising Shadowbringers as one of the best FF stories has me too hyped.
 
Oct 25, 2017
792
I'm totally with Ian in his "what's the big deal?" re: EGS, but I don't PC-game at all so I just don't even try and wade into the discussion. I'm also with him on the Shenmue 3 refund situation: I know that Epic is footing the bill, but it still feels like a real bummer to "punish" Ys and Yu Suzuki for a decision that was probably out of their hands. But what can you do? Voting with your wallet is just as much a capitalist power move as what Epic is doing, and I'm sure Epic is aware of that. Overall, them switching it up after promising Steam codes sucks hard and I'll leave my thoughts on the matter at that. I just hope it doesn't negatively affect Shenmue 3's actual reception. But it may be too late for that...
 

MrMette

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,294
Belgium

BradGrenz

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
900
There's definitely validity to not wanting to use it if they don't have region pricing for you but Steam does, but in the case of Shenmue 3 where things are already paid and accounted for I just have to roll my eyes at outrage towards that like I do with most of the overreaction towards EGS.
Epic supports regional pricing in more places at this point so that's not even a real advantage for Steam. And considering Shenmue 3's existence is a miracle, and the original KS never actually promised Steam keys, you're totally right the anger is an absurd overreaction. In general I think Brad was right, in that the consistent anger towards the EGS comes from a tiny minority who have so far had basically zero impact on actual game sales, ala the Modern Warfare 2 boycott group.
 
Jan 4, 2018
218
Some of the entries for the Glinny game jam are coming and oh my god at this one.


I only watched the video up until the hot springs scene and I love it
Thanks! I originally wasn't going to do a hot spring scene, but then the idea just sort of came to me right at the end.

I love the person who made this.

If you're reading this, I love you.
I did read it, thanks!

This is completely insane. I can't believe someone could make this in such a short amount of time.
I wrote pretty much all the logic, but it wouldn't have been possible without how much free stuff Epic gives away. It's usually like $150-300 worth of assets every month. Plus there's a permanently free collection that slowly grows as well. For anyone interested in game dev, even as just a hobby like myself, I highly recommend checking in on the marketplace once a month and adding anything new to your account and eventually you'll have a huge library of stuff.
 

klastical

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,357
Watching this no clip E3 documentary and Danny is all about rating the carpets!!! Is this why we didnt get our annual Easy update carpet raiting episode?