Easy Allies |OT2| Love & Reset

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,049
I understand that everyone is blinded by righteous anger over this stuff, but the thing is -- it's also blindingly obvious that this drama isn't in the best interest of the franchise or in the best interest of YsNet. The "bait and switch" theory doesn't check out -- they've spent long hours for 4 years turning Shenmue 3 into a reality. What's the motive? What's the goal? There isn't a logical explanation if you assume it's YsNet making these calls. The franchise is basically dead now, and 3 hasn't even launched. It will be reviewbombed. Critics will pan it and feel good about themselves. It's over

But if you say, "Deep Silver and Epic don't give a crap about Shenmue fans and is willing to f them over for a cheap buck", that's a more believable story. So I read it as a cautionary tale for a dev being hands off on the business side and trusting a publisher that doesn't represent their interests. I haven't seen any other explanation that makes sense to me. Take the money and run? Run where? And with what money, what we've seen for 3 suggests they've been spending a lot of manpower and effort on it (though not as much as even an AA budget would allow...)

It's sad, Shenmue 2 is one of the greatest games of all time and 3 seems like it might shape up to be pretty good...
The goal is more money? Dunno what's complicated about that. I think it makes less sense to assume that Ysnet isn't profiting in any way while Deep Silver are doing backdoor shady deals and getting all the money for themselves. That is reaching.
Even if that were the case, as I said before I will never buy into how deep silver or epic are at fault because at the very start of this project all the decision power belonged to Ysnet. They chose who they worked with nobody forced them. So the ultimate responsibility lies with them.

As for explanations I don't see what is so complicated about that. There is several possible scenarios. Like the
project might have been mismanaged so the 6 million weren't enough. So from their perspective it's either reduce scope or take additional deals. Or the money they got is ensuring the probability of a Shenmue 4. Etc, we simply don't know since they don't communicate. It's a bad look either way.
 

Elfforkusu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,793
The goal is more money? Dunno what's complicated about that. I think it makes less sense to assume that Ysnet isn't profiting in any way while Deep Silver are doing backdoor shady deals and getting all the money for themselves. That is reaching.
Even if that were the case, as I said before I will never buy into how deep silver or epic are at fault because at the very start of this project all the decision power belonged to Ysnet. They chose who they worked with nobody forced them. So the ultimate responsibility lies with them.

As for explanations I don't see what is so complicated about that. There is several possible scenarios. Like the
project might have been mismanaged so the 6 million weren't enough. So from their perspective it's either reduce scope or take additional deals. Or the money they got is ensuring the probability of a Shenmue 4. Etc, we simply don't know since they don't communicate. It's a bad look either way.
How is fing over their most passionate fans supposed to make YsNet more money? Unless you have access to their financials, I think it's a reach to call anything a reach.

They wouldn't have signed a deal that says "yes, we'll f over backers like this, this, and this", the deal would be to give up control to a third party (in this case Deep Silver) in return for some combination of up front payment and a cut of all other sales $$$. Should we complain about that decision? Clearly! Look how it's gone. But it's different to say "YsNet got in bed with the wrong publisher" than it is to say "Yu Suzuki is a bad person who is trying to screw over his most loyal fans". It's a question of intent.
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,049
How is fing over their most passionate fans supposed to make YsNet more money? Unless you have access to their financials, I think it's a reach to call anything a reach.

They wouldn't have signed a deal that says "yes, we'll f over backers like this, this, and this", the deal would be to give up control to a third party (in this case Deep Silver). Should we complain about that decision? Clearly! Look how it's gone. But it's different to say "YsNet got in bed with the wrong publisher" than it is "Yu Suzuki is a bad person who is trying to screw over his most loyal fans". It's a question of intent.
Cause they gain money from deals like the epic one? Is this concept really so strange to you? This happens everywhere in many fields people not caring about longterm profits/sustainability in favor of shortterm profits.

If they signed over all control while not profitting from it in some way that would be truly the height of stupid and would still deserve all the complaints so far. I find that doubtful it makes much more sense that to them the advantages were outweighting any disadvantages they conceived(and they might have been very wrong on that front judging by the results so far)-
 

Elfforkusu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,793
Cause they gain money from deals like the epic one? Is this concept really so strange to you? This happens everywhere in many fields people not caring about longterm profits/sustainability in favor of shortterm profits.
Why make the game at all then?

Your theory requires that they are both selfish and stupid. Mine only requires that they were naive. I favor the simpler explanation.
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,049
Why make the game at all then?

Your theory requires that they are both selfish and stupid. Mine only requires that they were naive. I favor the simpler explanation.
You're not making any sense? The game is the whole prerequisite to make any of this happen. Maybe you mistake my statements as the whole goal was just to get money so really the best way was actually just straight up scamming people? That's ridiculously bad interpretation if yes. Do you understand that decisions can have multiple motivators? It's not just Ysnet was purely greedy so they took the money to fuck over backers cause lul. I already wrote a specific example that clearly illustrates that this wouldn't be the case(like how they might have mismanaged the project). But these excuses do not change what happened, which is backers were offered steam keys through the backer surveys and then suddenly these surveys were voided by the epic deal. Expectations were clearly build up and then squashed without any type of prior open communication to backers. And I hope it's clear that the whole incentive to make Shenmue exclusive to the epic platform can only be money. They were offered money and they took it.

Also your theory requires them to be stupid to an ENOURMOUS degree that I find simply unfeasible just to somehow conveniently shove all responsbility towards deep silver/epic which still doesn't really, because again ultimately Ysnet chose these partners themselves and for some reason found the terms of the partnership they decide upon agreeable so whatever the case they're responsible.
 

Elfforkusu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,793
You're not making any sense? The game is the whole prerequisite to make any of this happen. Maybe you mistake my statements as the whole goal was just to get money so really the best way was actually just straight up scamming people? That's ridiculously bad interpretation if yes. Do you understand that decisions can have multiple motivators? It's not just Ysnet was purely greedy so they took the money to fuck over backers cause lul. I already wrote a specific example that clearly illustrates that this wouldn't be the case(like how they might have mismanaged the project). But these excuses do not change what happened, which is backers were offered steam keys through the backer surveys and then suddenly these surveys were voided by the epic deal.

Also your theory requires them to be stupid to an ENOURMOUS degree that I find simply unfeasible just to somehow conveniently shove all responsbility towards deep silver/epic which still doesn't really, because again ultimately Ysnet chose these partners themselves and for some reason found the terms of the partnership they decide upon agreeable so whatever the case they're responsible.
In the first post of yours I responded to, you used the phrase "malicious intent". I don't think anyone is arguing that YsNet is not in some way responsible for this -- they made the deal with the devil, after all -- but whether they are accountable for intentionally screwing over their own backers. You seem to be equating the two, or perhaps simply claiming that intent does not matter and that unintended consequences are to be treated as intended ones. Is that correct?
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,049
In the first post of yours I responded to, you used the phrase "malicious intent". I don't think anyone is arguing that YsNet is not in some way responsible for this -- they made the deal with the devil, after all -- but whether they are accountable for intentionally screwing over their own backers. You seem to be equating the two, or perhaps simply claiming that intent does not matter and that unintended consequences are to be treated as intended ones. Is that correct?
No. I think you misunderstood the context. I was replying to someone that was arguing how backers weren't really promised a steamkey anywhere on the page, ignoring all the context surrounding the whole thing like the surveys clearly outlining that steam keys were the plan at one point so for backers to have this expectation was perfectly normal. Basically they were insisting on a formality in what I felt was pretty bad faith in the context of having a positive relationship between dev and backers. Because if backers adopted the same attitude they could insist on several cases of rewards not being fulfilled to the letter and in that case around 16k backers would be eligible to try to reclaim their money based on unfulfilled promises. Clearly the majority of backers haven't done that on the grounds of not receiving a backer trial first before anyone else because in this case most people are understanding that this promise wasn't broken out of maliciousness.

But this consideration for Ysnet flies out of the window when there is no communication between Ysnet and the backers and something to the detriment of backers happens while at the same time clearly benefiting Ysnet in some way. Basically because there is grounds to believe that Ysnet was acting with total disregard to backers in their dealings special consideration understandably flies out of the window.

TLDR basic statement that I was trying to make there really was just "they reaped what they sown." They didn't pay special consideration to their backers in that decision so why would backers somehow be forthcoming and understanding on the decision especially without communication.
 
Oct 25, 2017
792
Easy Livin’ can’t come fast enough!
I for one welcome something else for us to talk about in this thread.

I personally think we should focus our collective energy on trying to get EZA access to Nintendo games earlier. I would have LOVED Damiani's early impressions of Three Houses, but alas...

(Unless it's coming later, but given recent review-copy shenanigans, I have to assume they got shafted once again)
 

RugoUniverse

Member
May 15, 2018
579
Scotland
I for one welcome something else for us to talk about in this thread.

I personally think we should focus our collective energy on trying to get EZA access to Nintendo games earlier. I would have LOVED Damiani's early impressions of Three Houses, but alas...

(Unless it's coming later, but given recent review-copy shenanigans, I have to assume they got shafted once again)
It's surely Ben that's reviewing FE?
 

jondgc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
877
I for one welcome something else for us to talk about in this thread.

I personally think we should focus our collective energy on trying to get EZA access to Nintendo games earlier. I would have LOVED Damiani's early impressions of Three Houses, but alas...

(Unless it's coming later, but given recent review-copy shenanigans, I have to assume they got shafted once again)
Completely agree. Although the Patreon is in flux right now a bit, the YouTube numbers have been fantastic. I don't know if there is a "magic number" for Nintendo to suddenly release things, but I have to imagine 250K YouTube subs needs to be a big push. Kinda Funny, Giant Bomb, and other outlets are all hovering around 250K...hopefully with all the Easy Livin' VODS that can lead to another push and get them even closer.
 

MrMette

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,294
Belgium
Nintendo US just doesn't care that outlets can only start reviewing on release.
They want to do anything in their power to prevent leaks and they are still punishing most outlets because of the leaks that happened years ago.

There is almost no upside for them to give outlets codes before launch, only downsides.
I honestly don't see why they would change that policy (I hope they do as it's an idiotic policy, but I just can't see it happening).
 
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Urbannomad123

Member
Oct 27, 2017
136
I don't think any review has ever sold me on a game as much as Damiani's Shadowbringers review. I barely have the time for an MMO but do not think I can avoid playing this. If the story is as good as Damiani says then, Final Fantasy fan that I am, I would be doing myself a disservice not to experience it.
 

RugoUniverse

Member
May 15, 2018
579
Scotland
Completely agree. Although the Patreon is in flux right now a bit, the YouTube numbers have been fantastic. I don't know if there is a "magic number" for Nintendo to suddenly release things, but I have to imagine 250K YouTube subs needs to be a big push. Kinda Funny, Giant Bomb, and other outlets are all hovering around 250K...hopefully with all the Easy Livin' VODS that can lead to another push and get them even closer.
Are the Easy Livin' VODs being uploaded to the main channel though?
 

Bloodworth

Member
Oct 28, 2017
446
Ben is working on Fire Emblem right now, but the priority is on the review. If there's a way to squeeze in some preview coverage, we'll try, but may be better for him to just stay focused.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,507
I'm sure the Easy Living schedule is already pretty packed, but could you perhaps consider this new Streets of Rage 2 romhack that adds The Punisher, Nick Fury, Bruce Lee and Arnie to the game?


Seems like a perfect 4am Huber game.
 

Mattersnotnow

Member
Jan 15, 2018
309
Also, if you're taking recommendations, check out twitch.tv/saltybet, it's a channel that pitches 2 fighting games AIs against each other 24/7. The best part is it's all Mugen, so you have these absurdly broken characters based on old SNES sprites, ms paint custom sprites, rips from arcade games. Jason Vorhees versus FFVI Sabin is a possible matchup.
I know that I at least would love if you guys came up with a betting meta game while you watch it along for an hour.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,507
Also, if you're taking recommendations, check out twitch.tv/saltybet, it's a channel that pitches 2 fighting games AIs against each other 24/7. The best part is it's all Mugen, so you have these absurdly broken characters based on old SNES sprites, ms paint custom sprites, rips from arcade games. Jason Vorhees versus FFVI Sabin is a possible matchup.
I know that I at least would love if you guys came up with a betting meta game while you watch it along for an hour.
Always bet on Tom Hanks.
 

Urbannomad123

Member
Oct 27, 2017
136
Ben is working on Fire Emblem right now, but the priority is on the review. If there's a way to squeeze in some preview coverage, we'll try, but may be better for him to just stay focused.
Really pleased to see that Nintendo have given you an early copy of Fire Emblem. Hope that this is a sign of good things to come, particularly given the run of big games that Nintendo will be releasing in the second part of the year.
 

DMVfan123

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,030
Virginia
Is anyone working on MUA3? Really hoping they manage a review for it
Brandon had the most passion for it in the office, but I'm sure that they'll find someone to review it
And you know, speaking of MUA3, I find it weird that Ian critiqued Avengers from looking like a game from 3 years ago, but is looking forward to UA3 which, and even EZA had these impressions, feels like a "PS2 game releasing in 2019" (which is absolutely no problem with me, I'm hyped for UA3)
Don't get me wrong, I love Ian, I've been critical of Avengers' rollout so far, and I agreed with most of the Allies' criticisms of the game too, even if it seems I'm more optimistic about the game overall than most
 
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klastical

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,357
Brandon had the most passion for it in the office, but I'm sure that they'll find someone to review it
And you know, speaking of MUA3, I find it weird that Ian critiqued Avengers from looking like a game from 3 years ago, but is looking forward to UA3 which, and even EZA had these impressions, feels like a "PS2 game releasing in 2019" (which is absolutely no problem with me, I'm hyped for UA3)
Don't get me wrong, I love Ian, I've been critical of Avengers' rollout so far, and I agreed with most of the Allies' criticisms of the game too, even if it seems I'm more optimistic about the game overall than most
Different expectations. Ultimate alliance isnt marketing itself as a AAA blockbuster game like avengers is.
 

Zeroro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,109
Ooh, nice to see that the submissions page for the Glinny's Cauldron Jam blew up between when they recorded the podcast and now. Forty minutes left to get those submissions in.
 

KiLAM

Member
Jan 25, 2018
1,311
Anyone knows that weird fiction website Ian was talking about in the podcast? The one which Control took inspiration from and had stories like that guy staring at the fridge.
 

Hasney

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,134
Enter the Gungeon is this week's group stream game?? Anyone know why? Seems kinda random...
I think I remember it coming up in conversation randomly somewhere, but I'm not even sure if it was Easy Allies? If it was, then it might have put the idea in someone's head.

Either that, or it just didn't make the Easy Livin' cut but someone wanted to play it.