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Easy Allies |OT2| Love & Reset

klastical

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,611
Exceptional week for EZA content, even the podcast trouble is mitigated by the Huber Booyah cut off. The guys are on it right now.

Energised by Phase 4
100% agree. This feels the most like a new era of eza to me out of all the new phases weve had. Not only are they putting out a ton of high quality content but they seem to be having a blast doing it.

Also that dunspace moment was completely ruined by save scumming. It was awesome to get the encounter on the first try but then think of how fucking incredible it would have been if it broke out of there last pokeball and they just had to shrug and accept there losses. It would have been equally incredible of they had caught it with there last pokeball but introducing save states made the moment feel like an inevitability instead of a triumph. Yes, I do realize this is way too much thinking about a silly pokemon stream. It's not like I'm going to stop watching the stream anything like that, just giving my 2c.
 

Slim Action

Member
Jul 4, 2018
878
Ultimately it doesn't matter because they're going to steamroll the entire game with Tick-Tock while the rest of the party lags way behind.
 

MangoUltz

Member
Mar 24, 2019
238
Is there anything they can do about the inability to trade on the emulator? Would love to see Jones react to getting a Steelix

Been trying to pick up a copy of HGSS to play along with them but I forgot it's super scarce. Don't think I can trust anything on eBay and Amazon doesn't have much either. A local place has a traded in copy but it comes with the pokewalker and is 100 quid :/
 

BassForever

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,552
CT
Is there anything they can do about the inability to trade on the emulator? Would love to see Jones react to getting a Steelix

Been trying to pick up a copy of HGSS to play along with them but I forgot it's super scarce. Don't think I can trust anything on eBay and Amazon doesn't have much either. A local place has a traded in copy but it comes with the pokewalker and is 100 quid :/
I usually just use romhacks that change those kinds of evolution mechanics. I think some emulators will let you link two emulators together for multiplayer but I’m not sure how that works.
 
Nov 5, 2017
780
I usually just use romhacks that change those kinds of evolution mechanics. I think some emulators will let you link two emulators together for multiplayer but I’m not sure how that works.
Yeah, I attempted to do this back in the day, but setting it up to work is just so complicated. I doubt Bosman has the time to figure it out and make trading happen.
 

Sheldon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
804
Ruhrgebiet, Germany
With the kind of BOOYAH power demonstrated by Huber, he must be a human ancestor of Pearl.

On another Podcast note, the L&R was curious. I thought Control made a good case for testing games on base hardware going forward, but then Huber's biggest regret about the review was not getting to test ray tracing. Nice reminder, as stated by Ian, how out of touch I am with the tech-chasing enthusiasts.
 

swaggy

Member
Mar 11, 2018
684
Watching the Man of Medan stream. Damn it Huber!

EDIT: OK, that got rectified. Now I'm pissed at Fliss and Conrad. wtf.
 
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klastical

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,611
With the kind of BOOYAH power demonstrated by Huber, he must be a human ancestor of Pearl.

On another Podcast note, the L&R was curious. I thought Control made a good case for testing games on base hardware going forward, but then Huber's biggest regret about the review was not getting to test ray tracing. Nice reminder, as stated by Ian, how out of touch I am with the tech-chasing enthusiasts.
Yeah things are going to get extra weird as we approach the end of this gen and even worse when next gen properly starts and we're getting next gen games downported to the base model ps4 and xbone.

Theres only so much the allies can do with there limited access to systems and wanting to get out timely reviews. I do know that some of the footage in the review is from bloods playthrough on the base ps4 and from what I remember he pushed back against huber on the tech issues.

There has always been problems like this popping up though. Remember when loads of outlets gave skyrim on ps3 glowing reviews until it was later reviewed that the game was completely broken if you played it for an extended period of time. The reason this didnt get caught by reviewers was because they all played it on 360 or PC and thought it was fine, they did a cursory look at the ps4 version to make sure it wasnt completely fucked at first glance but little did they know...

I feel like there were some games that ran pretty bad on the 360 towards the end of last gen too but I'm not remembering any examples.
 

Slim Action

Member
Jul 4, 2018
878
I remember it being agonizing playing a lot of new games in 2014 since everything still had to be compatible with the Xbox 360, a nine year old console at that point.

2021 will be that all over again.
 

MrMette

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,510
Belgium
I remember it being agonizing playing a lot of new games in 2014 since everything still had to be compatible with the Xbox 360, a nine year old console at that point.

2021 will be that all over again.
It will be even worse for reviewers as I think all games playable on current gen are going to be playable on next gen and possibly the other way around as well (all be it scaled down). It's not been confirmed, but since it's the same architecture, I can imagine it being like PC games. You can still play 15 year old games on a new PC (barring some OS problems) and I can't see how it will be different for consoles.

I can almost guarantee that there will be a longer period of games being created for both gens (and I don't think it will be separate versions either, it will be one Playstation and one Xbox gamebox instead, they will just run differently depending on the machine you put them in). My guess is that digital next gen games will be larger compared to current gen ones, but otherwise the same and that the physical disk will work on both, but you can download a separate, optional "texture pack" for next gen.

I'm not sure if new PS5 games will keep working on PS4, but they might for a couple of years. I don't see how this wouldn't be the case, especially with how close those machines seem to be to each other architecture wise. Next gen will just be (much) beefier PCs compared to current gen.

So it will be impossible to test all the games on both gens/models. PC reviewers don't review a game on a 5 year old PC either.
My guess is that there will be a compatibility chart on the back of the box, but that you will need to watch a channel like Digital Foundry for a comparison to see which systems will run it well and which won't.
 
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Sheldon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
804
Ruhrgebiet, Germany
Yeah things are going to get extra weird as we approach the end of this gen and even worse when next gen properly starts and we're getting next gen games downported to the base model ps4 and xbone.

Theres only so much the allies can do with there limited access to systems and wanting to get out timely reviews. I do know that some of the footage in the review is from bloods playthrough on the base ps4 and from what I remember he pushed back against huber on the tech issues.
True enough. I realize that even if I prefer reviews to always be done on the lowest specs rather than the highest, such a policy is impossible to implement with how EZA is set up. You'd need reviewers playing games in the office on company time on company-owned hardware, and I'm pretty sure not even big outlets like IGN operate like that anymore if they ever did.

And that's just logistics considerations, completely aside from the philosophical question of whether the score a game receives should represent the best possible, the worst possible, the individual reviewer's or the average user's experience.
 

Slim Action

Member
Jul 4, 2018
878
I really, really hope PS4-era games get "performance patches" on PS5. Imagine finally playing Bloodborne at a decent framerate.
 

hank_tree

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
2,144
It will be even worse for reviewers as I think all games playable on current gen are going to be playable on next gen and possibly the other way around as well (all be it scaled down). It's not been confirmed, but since it's the same architecture, I can imagine it being like PC games.
There's a 0% chance of this happening.
 

MrMette

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,510
Belgium
There's a 0% chance of this happening.
What is a 0% chance of happening? New games also being playable on current gen? Sure, that might be a push even though I am convinced there will be at least a cross-gen period just like last gen/current gen. Current gen games also being playable on next gen or games (in the beginning of next gen) being cross-gen and it being one gamebox in stores? I can't see why that couldn't be happening. It would be much cheaper to not having to produce mutliple SKU's of the same game for the same brand of consoles.

It will be much easier to create a playable game on next gen consoles that also works on current gen compared to current gen that also works on last gen as it's basically a faster CPU and GPU and not a completely different CPU architecture. Games that scale on PS4 Pro compared to Base PS4 do the same thing as they need to do for PS5 compared to PS4 (and it's the same on the Xbox side).

I can't see why that couldn't be happening if they create a game with dynamic/scalable systems (like resolution or some effects) that adapt themselves to how much load is on the system (like what is happening in games the last couple of years anyway, especially after the introduction of the Pro and X and the same on the Switch in docked vs portable mode). It would just not get to specific resolutions on lower machines, but it could still run.

There is no way they will leave the 100 million PS4 and who knows how many Xbox One users behind when next gen is launching by only creating new games for next gen.
 
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klastical

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,611
It will be even worse for reviewers as I think all games playable on current gen are going to be playable on next gen and possibly the other way around as well (all be it scaled down). It's not been confirmed, but since it's the same architecture, I can imagine it being like PC games. You can still play 15 year old games on a new PC (barring some OS problems) and I can't see how it will be different for consoles.

I can almost guarantee that there will be a longer period of games being created for both gens (and I don't think it will be separate versions either, it will be one Playstation and one Xbox gamebox instead, they will just run differently depending on the machine you put them in). My guess is that digital next gen games will be larger compared to current gen ones, but otherwise the same and that the physical disk will work on both, but you can download a separate, optional "texture pack" for next gen.

I'm not sure if new PS5 games will keep working on PS4, but they might for a couple of years. I don't see how this wouldn't be the case, especially with how close those machines seem to be to each other architecture wise. Next gen will just be (much) beefier PCs compared to current gen.

So it will be impossible to test all the games on both gens/models. PC reviewers don't review a game on a 5 year old PC either.
My guess is that there will be a compatibility chart on the back of the box, but that you will need to watch a channel like Digital Foundry for a comparison to see which systems will run it well and which won't.
The difference with pc games is that they atleast offer base specs so you know if your going to be able to run the game. With ps4 games you just get a box that says ps4 on it and you have to hope that it doesnt have bad frame rate on the base system. I know that pc players have a whole other host of tech compatability problems that console players dont have to deal with though so it's not like the grass is greener over there either.

There's a 0% chance of this happening.
I dont know if sony will do it but I have a pretty strong suspicion that microsoft is just going to have "xbox" games going forward and they will phase out older hardware as time goes on, like apple does.

Last gen was already pretty weird. You could put a ps3 copy of black flag into a ps4 pay a fee ($10 I think) and all of a sudden you playstation recognized the disk as a ps4 disk and let you have access to that version of the game. Cbox even had games cases where the banner st the top said "xbox one xbox 360 compatable" or something to that effect. Theres not really a reason to print multiple disks if you dont have to.

I'm sure devs are going to hate the idea of having to support 6 or more systems though, that sounds like a fucking nightmare.
 

EarthPainting

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,636
Town adjacent to Silent Hill
Is there anything they can do about the inability to trade on the emulator? Would love to see Jones react to getting a Steelix

Been trying to pick up a copy of HGSS to play along with them but I forgot it's super scarce. Don't think I can trust anything on eBay and Amazon doesn't have much either. A local place has a traded in copy but it comes with the pokewalker and is 100 quid :/
I think patching the ROM would be the easiest. They tend to change the trading requirements into new levels. I think the simplest way is to use the Universal Pokemon Randomizer, turn off all the randomising elements, and just use the "Change Impossible Evos" option.
 

MrMette

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,510
Belgium
The difference with pc games is that they atleast offer base specs so you know if your going to be able to run the game. With ps4 games you just get a box that says ps4 on it and you have to hope that it doesnt have bad frame rate on the base system. I know that pc players have a whole other host of tech compatability problems that console players dont have to deal with though so it's not like the grass is greener over there either.



I dont know if sony will do it but I have a pretty strong suspicion that microsoft is just going to have "xbox" games going forward and they will phase out older hardware as time goes on, like apple does.

Last gen was already pretty weird. You could put a ps3 copy of black flag into a ps4 pay a fee ($10 I think) and all of a sudden you playstation recognized the disk as a ps4 disk and let you have access to that version of the game. Cbox even had games cases where the banner st the top said "xbox one xbox 360 compatable" or something to that effect. Theres not really a reason to print multiple disks if you dont have to.

I'm sure devs are going to hate the idea of having to support 6 or more systems though, that sounds like a fucking nightmare.
I know it's different and I'm not saying it would be better if they would do this, but I can see a "compatibility" list instead of a spec list.
I don't play enough on PC to know if it's still the case, but I know from experience from years ago (like 15 to 20 years ago) that meeting the minimum specs on PC games didn't necessarily meant you were able to play the game (or at least not with more than 10 fps).

I also think that they will still need to test more on PC compared to consoles even if they were to support 2 gens wit the same game and it will be much more controllable to test. I agree that it sounds like a nightmare for devs, but they do this for PC games already and for PS4 vs Pro, Xbox One vs X and Switch docked vs Portable as well.

I can also see Microsoft doing it before Sony, but I don't know if the other can stay behind if one of them is doing it. It probably wouldn't make a difference for people with only one of the brands, but why would I keep buying PS4 titles if I have to buy the game again on PS5 if that's not the case for Xbox titles?

But it's obviously all speculation. The main thing is that I don't think reviewing games will become easier next gen. I have a feeling that there will be more console variations next gen compared to this gen (even without taking into account current gen).
 

Lexad

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,038
With the kind of BOOYAH power demonstrated by Huber, he must be a human ancestor of Pearl.

On another Podcast note, the L&R was curious. I thought Control made a good case for testing games on base hardware going forward, but then Huber's biggest regret about the review was not getting to test ray tracing. Nice reminder, as stated by Ian, how out of touch I am with the tech-chasing enthusiasts.
i just dont think that is reasonable for an outlet like Eza, ign sure but not eza
 

Yasai

Member
Dec 23, 2017
277
i just dont think that is reasonable for an outlet like Eza, ign sure but not eza
It's not that hard to do, really. At least for PS4 they have a standard in the studio. Just have savegames of some fights/areas that have a lot going on and load those on that console. Maybe watch the intro cutscene, too. Takes like half an hour to find out if the performance tends to take a hit there. If it doesn't in those intense action/ areas then you did your best in terms of what's reasonable for your outlet. If you notice problems just mention in the review, that on base hardware the performance seems to be taking hits and people wary of that should wait for digital foundry or a patch.

I mean EZA mentions in their review on what hardware the reviewer played the game so ultimately it's on the viewer/reader if they find that misleading in such a case where the experiences differ so greatly.
 

klastical

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,611
It's not that hard to do, really. At least for PS4 they have a standard in the studio. Just have savegames of some fights/areas that have a lot going on and load those on that console. Maybe watch the intro cutscene, too. Takes like half an hour to find out if the performance tends to take a hit there. If it doesn't in those intense action/ areas then you did your best in terms of what's reasonable for your outlet. If you notice problems just mention in the review, that on base hardware the performance seems to be taking hits and people wary of that should wait for digital foundry or a patch.

I mean EZA mentions in their review on what hardware the reviewer played the game so ultimately it's on the viewer/reader if they find that misleading in such a case where the experiences differ so greatly.
To me that seems like it would be more problematic in the long run. Let's say theres a certain area of the game that runs like complete ass and the review mentions slight frame rate issues on the base ps4 then somebody buys it and finds out it runs at 10 fps for a one hour section of the game and is mad that eza said it was fine when it clearly isnt.

Plus if they are going to play it on pro, then test it on base ps4, that still leaves xbox one, one X and pc players wondering how it runs on there systems and testing it out on all of those would deffinitly take more than half an hour not to mention that they often only get review codes for one system.
 

Yasai

Member
Dec 23, 2017
277
To me that seems like it would be more problematic in the long run. Let's say theres a certain area of the game that runs like complete ass and the review mentions slight frame rate issues on the base ps4 then somebody buys it and finds out it runs at 10 fps for a one hour section of the game and is mad that eza said it was fine when it clearly isnt.
That's why I suggested writing/saying "on base hardware the performance seems to be taking hits" instead of describing the extent of issues because as they would make clear (again) in that segment of the review, they did not review the game on that hardware but rather made a quick superficial performance check that might indicate broader issues on the weaker version hardware.

klastical said:
Plus if they are going to play it on pro, then test it on base ps4, that still leaves xbox one, one X and pc players wondering how it runs on there systems and testing it out on all of those would deffinitly take more than half an hour not to mention that they often only get review codes for one system.
As said, they wouldn't test it on base PS4 but on Pro, as mentioned seconds into the review video. Same goes for Xbox One (X) or pc. Xbox players shouldn't look at reviews for PS4 (while a mention of performance issues on base PS4 might make them look closer at their version if mentioned in the PS4 review). Same goes for pc gamers to an extent though I'd think they are already wary by default whether their hardware will be able to run a game well because well pc doesn't equal pc
 

Primethius

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,842
I would prefer that performance related issues, unless game breaking, be left aside or contained to their own specific section in reviews (a notation near the end for example, outlining if and why the score was negatively impacted). I know EZA mentions the platform, but I think talking about performance in a review that applies to a multiplatform game invariably dates and constrains the review.

I understand it's personal preference and lots of reviewers do mention it but if I'm playing on PC or Control on PS5/Scarlett with boost mode enabled, the review would feel incredibly dated if I'm watching complaints of performance mixed in with discussion of all other aspects. Similar reasoning applies to patches that address performance.

That's not to say reviewers shouldn't take it into account, it should just be more specific and separated, especially with the advent of comparisons like Digital Foundry who go into far greater depth at addressing the issues and whether or not consumers would find particular performance issues a notable impediment to their enjoyment.
 

Lexad

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,038
To me that seems like it would be more problematic in the long run. Let's say theres a certain area of the game that runs like complete ass and the review mentions slight frame rate issues on the base ps4 then somebody buys it and finds out it runs at 10 fps for a one hour section of the game and is mad that eza said it was fine when it clearly isnt.

Plus if they are going to play it on pro, then test it on base ps4, that still leaves xbox one, one X and pc players wondering how it runs on there systems and testing it out on all of those would deffinitly take more than half an hour not to mention that they often only get review codes for one system.
Exactly this just isn’t feasible. Control isn’t a long game but imagine something like a fallout or Skyrim.
 

klastical

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,611
That's why I suggested writing/saying "on base hardware the performance seems to be taking hits" instead of describing the extent of issues because as they would make clear (again) in that segment of the review, they did not review the game on that hardware but rather made a quick superficial performance check that might indicate broader issues on the weaker version hardware.



As said, they wouldn't test it on base PS4 but on Pro, as mentioned seconds into the review video. Same goes for Xbox One (X) or pc. Xbox players shouldn't look at reviews for PS4 (while a mention of performance issues on base PS4 might make them look closer at their version if mentioned in the PS4 review). Same goes for pc gamers to an extent though I'd think they are already wary by default whether their hardware will be able to run a game well because well pc doesn't equal pc
No offense but I dont think a quick superficial look at anything should be part of any review and would just lead to more confusion. As is often the case it's just easier to tell the complete truth in the review: this is what we played it on, these are our thoughts on the game. If the review mentions tech issues for that platform it's on the consumer to do more research to see if those tech issues are present in other versions as well.
 

Yasai

Member
Dec 23, 2017
277
Exactly this just isn’t feasible. Control isn’t a long game but imagine something like a fallout or Skyrim.
I mean Sheldon suggested playing one playthrough of the reviewed game on the hardware the majority of viewers/readers uses and I suggested playing on the platform that is most convenient for them (one they have at home) and considering (where needed) an extra 30 minutes of effort in fast-checking the unboosted version of the game to give the viewers/readers more of a complete idea of what to expect/ be aware about before purchasing.

No one wants an Ally to play through the game twice for review I dont think (?)


No offense but I dont think a quick superficial look at anything should be part of any review and would just lead to more confusion. As is often the case it's just easier to tell the complete truth in the review: this is what we played it on, these are our thoughts on the game.
You have superficial views on things in reviews all the time. No one is gonna play through a game with all the available builds in an rpg even though they potentially make for pretty different experiences. Honestly I don't think I get what you mean with the "complete truth"? I don't think there's such a thing nor would it be opposed to my suggestion. It's all about proper declaration and structuring I would think.

If the review mentions tech issues for that platform it's on the consumer to do more research to see if those tech issues are present in other versions as well.
A reviewer might not even mention tech issues if the game was reviewed on the boosted hardware. How would the consumer even know they would have to do extra research is kinda my point
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,469
How does a power outage cause already recorded audio to get fudged up? How strange.
 

klastical

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,611
I mean Sheldon suggested playing one playthrough of the reviewed game on the hardware the majority of viewers/readers uses and I suggested playing on the platform that is most convenient for them (one they have at home) and considering (where needed) an extra 30 minutes of effort in fast-checking the unboosted version of the game to give the viewers/readers more of a complete idea of what to expect/ be aware about before purchasing.

No one wants an Ally to play through the game twice for review I dont think (?)




You have superficial views on things in reviews all the time. No one is gonna play through a game with all the available builds in an rpg even though they potentially make for pretty different experiences. Honestly I don't think I get what you mean with the "complete truth"? I don't think there's such a thing nor would it be opposed to my suggestion. It's all about proper declaration and structuring I would think.



A reviewer might not even mention tech issues if the game was reviewed on the boosted hardware. How would the consumer even know they would have to do extra research is kinda my point
Theres a pretty big gulf between only playing a game with one charecter class (which tends to get disclosed in a lot of reviews anyways) and playing a version of a game for half an hour and giving it a seal of approval because you didnt see any hardware issues. Again this is what led to skyrim getting great reviews on the PS3 only for players to figure out that the game was basically broken once you played for more than 65 hours (or whatever it was.)

As a videogame consumer in 2019 it's kind of on us to each do our own due diligence. If you want to see how a game runs on each individual platform then there are resources out there for that. If someone is not willing to go that route there are always outlets like eza who disclose what system they played the game on.

It's also worth remembering that easy allies did include footage of control running on a base ps4 in there review and that blood and huber had some sort of conversation about it. So its not like they are not doing anything to show off these sorts of problems when they know about them. I dont remember what the review actually said regarding the tech issues.

Just to be perfectly clear, I do agree with you in theory, I to wish that there was an easy way for every reviewer to put multiple versions of games through there paces and really see what the differences are. It's just not feasible for most outlets except for the absolute biggest ones and even then huge mistakes still happen.
 

MrMette

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,510
Belgium
How does a power outage cause already recorded audio to get fudged up? How strange.
I would imagine it was being actively recorded, the power went out, and the file got corrupted.
It was indeed corrupted from what I have read or heard on a stream (I can't remember where exactly). It was actively being recorded through the mixer and the file on the PC probably got corrupted as it wasn't closed properly.

I still think Huber was too enthusiastic and caused the power outage by being that hyped (by moving too much, I believe the cables go under the floor/stage they are on, but I can't remember 100% from the footage they took when it was build). But I obviously don't have a clue how long it lasted and such, so it probably wasn't Huber's "fault".
Such a shame about the bad audio podcast, it was very fast and loose, great stuff
I honestly still enjoyed listening/watching both podcasts. The bad audio was certainly noticeable and I understand why they rerecorded that part, but I still found it to be enjoyable. I also think it was a good move to not keep it Patreon exclusive. Let people decide if they want to watch it or not.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
917
How does a power outage cause already recorded audio to get fudged up? How strange.
It's the same idea of turning off your console when the game is saving: it just borks it. It's why some computers require you to eject a hard drive before unplugging it, to prevent any writing errors. It can't be helped unless they have a battery to pick up the power in case of an outage.
 

MrMette

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,510
Belgium
They should just stream the podcast on Twitch then export it to YouTube for VOD.
They do edit the podcast and add lower thirds and music to the podcast, so that probably wouldn't work.

Edit:
They might also have to bleep something if they say something by accident that's still under embargo.
I personally wouldn't risk streaming the podcast each week. While I love the live podcasts during E3, I don't think it would be the same if it was done every time.
 
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klastical

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,611
They do edit the podcast and add lower thirds and music to the podcast, so that probably wouldn't work.

Edit:
They might also have to bleep something if they say something by accident that's still under embargo.
I personally wouldn't risk streaming the podcast each week. While I love the live podcasts during E3, I don't think it would be the same if it was done every time.
I'll never buy the "might say something under embargo" excuse. They are all professionals who are on camera all the time. Loads of other podcasts stream live with no issues. It's fine if they dont want to do it because they dont have a set recording schedule, which I believe is the actual reason why.